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Y_lifter
New member
Interesting read across the spectrum. Not certain on this source though.
http://mindlace.net/archives/2006/06/12/biomass-for-fuel/
The severity of the global warming problem and sugar cane’s status a net-positive biofuel source means that expansion of sugar cane production is likely. Even if we were willing to countenance monocropping sugar across half the arable land of earth, the 79.5 liters of ethanol per ton of sugarcane and ethanol’s lower energetic value mean that we would produce about 56% of our 2005 fuel consumption.
65 tons/ha x 79.5 l/ton = 5167.5 l/ha.
5167.5 l x 0.0063 barrels/liter = 32.55 barrels ethanol
32.55 barrels ethanol x 66% energy value of crude = 21.5 barrels crude equivalent
21.5 x (1.65 x 109 hectares arable land / 2) = 17.738 x 109 barrels crude equivalent/year
31.426 x 109 barrels oil consumed in 2005
http://mindlace.net/archives/2006/06/12/biomass-for-fuel/
The severity of the global warming problem and sugar cane’s status a net-positive biofuel source means that expansion of sugar cane production is likely. Even if we were willing to countenance monocropping sugar across half the arable land of earth, the 79.5 liters of ethanol per ton of sugarcane and ethanol’s lower energetic value mean that we would produce about 56% of our 2005 fuel consumption.
65 tons/ha x 79.5 l/ton = 5167.5 l/ha.
5167.5 l x 0.0063 barrels/liter = 32.55 barrels ethanol
32.55 barrels ethanol x 66% energy value of crude = 21.5 barrels crude equivalent
21.5 x (1.65 x 109 hectares arable land / 2) = 17.738 x 109 barrels crude equivalent/year
31.426 x 109 barrels oil consumed in 2005
gotmilk
New member
spongebob said:
There's a new one being built now. 150,000 bpd expected capacity.
Plus, two new ones in the Baja of Mexico with pipelines into Southern California..
And...Pat Robertson's old refinery is still available although that dog looks like hell froze over there. I'd tear it down, clean up the property, and build on the 100 oceanfront acres he owns.
Let the gov't pay for hauling out the first 6 inches of top soil.
mountain muscle
New member
For all you ethanol proponents, can any of you send me information on the amount of acreage it would take to say, produce half of our energy demands? While ethanol may be the future, it is going to take a mutli-source plan to mitigate our dependance on foreign oil. Wind, Solar, Coal, Nuclear, Ethanol, as well as existing oil resevoirs. IMO oil resevoirs should be the first to take priority since the current structure is set around this resource.
BTW are sugar beets a viable source of ethanol fuels? Cane is grown in a certain climate, one which we have a limited capacity. Beets are sustainable in a colder climate such as the Northern part of our country. (My grandparents were sugar beet farmers)
BTW are sugar beets a viable source of ethanol fuels? Cane is grown in a certain climate, one which we have a limited capacity. Beets are sustainable in a colder climate such as the Northern part of our country. (My grandparents were sugar beet farmers)
mrplunkey
New member
Well, here is my three-corona and two tequlia shot estimate (so it may be wrong).mountain muscle said:
About 15% of our total US corn goes into ethanol and makes about 4.5B gallons per year.
About 30% of our our total US corn production is "retired" land -- not 30% of the total, basically an "extra" 30% should we chose to use it.
About 15%-30% (yeah, I forget which number it is) of our total US corn production goes into cracked corn for animals, which could easily be replaced with DDGS (a by product of ethanol plants). Let's run with the 15% number here.
About 30% of our total US corn goes into exports on the spot market. Let's only cut that amount in half.
--------------------------------------
so 15% now makes 4.5B gallons.
so 15% (current) + 30% (retired land) + 15% (cracked corn) + 15% (exports) = 75% total = 75/15 = 5 * 4.5B gallons = 22.5B gallons of ethanol.
We use around 140B gallons/year of gasoline with 1/3 of that coming from the middle east. So that is about 46M gallons.
Therefore, without really sacrificing anything else (i.e. corn for human consumption, corn oil, etc. etc.) we've cut the middle east in about half. Let ethanol take off, and you'll see people planing corn behind corn instead of corn behind soybeans (like we do now). Then the corn production would dramatically increase, but we'd have to fertalize the soil more as well since soybeans offset some of that need.
Mind you, these numbers may change when the corona's and tequila wears off. I'm doing my own ethanol experiment right now
mrplunkey
New member
We have to be careful about ethanol's lower "energy" value -- that's measured in BTW which is a measure of heat. But heat doesn't make cars go, explosions do. Ethanol has a much higher octane rating (well over 100) so it makes a really good explosion with less heat byproduct (in cars, heats is a waste that has to be dealt with using radiators and such). As cars are built with smarter carberators/injectors and built to higher compression ratios, ethanol will shine.Y_lifter said:
mountain muscle
New member
mrplunkey said:Well, here is my three-corona and two tequlia shot estimate (so it may be wrong).
About 15% of our total US corn goes into ethanol and makes about 4.5B gallons per year.
About 30% of our our total US corn production is "retired" land -- not 30% of the total, basically an "extra" 30% should we chose to use it.
About 15%-30% (yeah, I forget which number it is) of our total US corn production goes into cracked corn for animals, which could easily be replaced with DDGS (a by product of ethanol plants). Let's run with the 15% number here.
About 30% of our total US corn goes into exports on the spot market. Let's only cut that amount in half.
--------------------------------------
so 15% now makes 4.5B gallons.
so 15% (current) + 30% (retired land) + 15% (cracked corn) + 15% (exports) = 75% total = 75/15 = 5 * 4.5B gallons = 22.5B gallons of ethanol.
We use around 140B gallons/year of gasoline with 1/3 of that coming from the middle east. So that is about 46M gallons.
Therefore, without really sacrificing anything else (i.e. corn for human consumption, corn oil, etc. etc.) we've cut the middle east in about half. Let ethanol take off, and you'll see people planing corn behind corn instead of corn behind soybeans (like we do now). Then the corn production would dramatically increase, but we'd have to fertalize the soil more as well since soybeans offset some of that need.
Mind you, these numbers may change when the corona's and tequila wears off. I'm doing my own ethanol experiment right now
Thanks Mr. P. That combined with an agressive exploration and research program and we could be putting nearly all of our Middle Eastern oil into reserves in a relatively short time.
mrplunkey
New member
I did a quick search and it looks like they burn most of what's left over.Y_lifter said:
An ideal ethanol conversion process yields by-products that have residual fermentable starch levels in the low single-digit range (i.e. 3%-4%). What makes corn byproducts valuable (DDGS) isn't just the fiber -- it's also the fat and small amount of protein that comes from the germ of the corn kernel (assuming you aren't using a fractionated process, which isn't popular in dry mills yet).
I'm not aware (but could be wrong) of any germ or other fat/protein byproduct that would be left-over with sugar cane. I'll look more later.
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