North Korea threatening US w/ nuclear missile

[cranny]

North Korea is going to be testing a long-range ballistic missile...one capable of reaching the continental United States. The missiles appear to be fueled up and ready to go..on a remote section of North Korea's coast. The missile is large enough to carry a nuclear weapon.
So what is North Korea up to? Why would they need such a weapon? Well, yesterday North Korea issued a statement promising to "mercilessly wipe out" US forces in the event of war.
We didn't tolerate missiles in Cuba pointed at the United States and we shouldn't tolerate one in North Korea pointed at the United States. But this is what you get when you "negotiate" with a rogue thug like the insane Kim Jong-Il. We have been negotiating with North Korea for years. The Clinton administration even sent the Secretary of State to make a worthless agreement with that nutcase...one that he immediately broke.
They've done this before...in 1998. North Korea fired a missile over Japan..without warning. Japan says North Korea can expect a harsh response from the United States if they do it again. Why should we wait?

 

[Cutiebaby]

well we should wait because alot of our troops are already in iraq and afghanistan.
We have lost enough people because of that bullshit. We obviously will lose a hell of alot more if N korea fucks with us.
I say leave them alone and let them do their thing as long as no one gets effected or hurt by it. We have NO right to tell other countries how to live! We should worry about the U.S.A and thats it. No one can seem to understand that!

 

[gotmilk]

I say let the Japs invade and torture every last Daewoo wanna-be.

 

[maxpain]

well we should wait because alot of our troops are already in iraq and afghanistan.
We have lost enough people because of that bullshit. We obviously will lose a hell of alot more if N korea fucks with us.
I say leave them alone and let them do their thing as long as no one gets effected or hurt by it. We have NO right to tell other countries how to live! We should worry about the U.S.A and thats it. No one can seem to understand that!

With all due respect. Your the one who does not seem to understand.

Lost people to what bullshit? The war? People die in war it's a sad reality. People had to DIE so you have the freedom to sit on your computer and post on this board.


Let them do there thing ??? So they can hold this country and others hostage with the threat of nukes?

Tell countries how to live? How in the hell does this tell them how to live?

Your right we should worry about the US. But there are serious threats to the US (which includes YOU) from abroad. And you better damn well wake up and realize that fact.

 

[mrplunkey]

The politically-clever thing for this administration to do with N Korea *and* Iran is to pull a "Clinton" on them and just hide while they build-up forces.

Problem is, that's a strategy for getting our asses nuked in the next 5-10 years.

I'd love to see one of our Iraq war critics lay out a realistic policy for dealing with these two countries. My guess is they'll say "pursue diplomatic relations" (which is code for "do nothing and hope the problem goes away").

 

[jack sparrow]

With all the taxes I've payed over the years, I should OWN at least one ICBM that I can aim at a country of my choice and light it off myself.

 

[Cutiebaby]

With all due respect. Your the one who does not seem to understand.

Lost people to what bullshit? The war? People die in war it's a sad reality. People had to DIE so you have the freedom to sit on your computer and post on this board.


Let them do there thing ??? So they can hold this country and others hostage with the threat of nukes?

Tell countries how to live? How in the hell does this tell them how to live?

Your right we should worry about the US. But there are serious threats to the US (which includes YOU) from abroad. And you better damn well wake up and realize that fact.

IMO we are to quick to jump. Look at the whole Iraq thing! Where are the Weapons of mass destruction?
Untill N Korea definitaly says that they are going to screw with us then we should not move.(look, i dont have tv so I have no idea what is going on BTW.)
I understand all the allies stick together and stuff. But I think as long as no one is going to harm the u.s then we should lay low.
We have gone around the bush and back many times with N korea.We should wait untill they are a direct threat!

 

[Phenom78]

IMO we are to quick to jump. Look at the whole Iraq thing! Where are the Weapons of mass destruction?
Untill N Korea definitaly says that they are going to screw with us then we should not move.(look, i dont have tv so I have no idea what is going on BTW.)
I understand all the allies stick together and stuff. But I think as long as no one is going to harm the u.s then we should lay low.
We have gone around the bush and back many times with N korea.We should wait untill they are a direct threat!

LOL

 

[maxpain]

IMO we are to quick to jump. Look at the whole Iraq thing! Where are the Weapons of mass destruction?!

That's NOT what is going on here. Two totally unrelateable situations.

Untill N Korea definitaly says that they are going to screw with us then we should not move.(look, i dont have tv so I have no idea what is going on BTW.)

Then again with all due respect. If you have no idea what's going on. Why would you comment ????

I understand all the allies stick together and stuff. But I think as long as no one is going to harm the u.s then we should lay low.
We have gone around the bush and back many times with N korea.We should wait untill they are a direct threat!

When you shoot a long range missile. That's a threat. Think of it like this. If someone shoots a gun at you.....is that a direct threat ???? VERY MUCH SO !! Are you ok with people firing guns at you and not doing anything about it to protect yourself including possibly shooting back.

I am not saying bomb the shit out of them. They have enough opposition in their own backyards. S. Korea, Australia, New Zealand and Japan have all voiced concerns over it. Not just the Americans. But I am saying they are doing it has a threat to America.

 

[Cutiebaby]

I need to read on this.
Anyone have a link?

 

[jack sparrow]

www.drudgereport.com

 

[redguru]

IMO we are to quick to jump. Look at the whole Iraq thing! Where are the Weapons of mass destruction?
Untill N Korea definitaly says that they are going to screw with us then we should not move.(look, i dont have tv so I have no idea what is going on BTW.)
I understand all the allies stick together and stuff. But I think as long as no one is going to harm the u.s then we should lay low.
We have gone around the bush and back many times with N korea.We should wait untill they are a direct threat!

You have no TV, no realtime access to news and current events so how are you going to base your political thought on anything more than a feeling? If you ask me, people who can't answer simple questions about current events should not be allowed to shape public policy by voting.

 

[curling]

Why don't we just let Japan invade them and once they take over their country just to sent us a country franchise tax you know like a a McDonalds franchise would.

 

[maxpain]

You have no TV, no realtime access to news and current events so how are you going to base your political thought on anything more than a feeling? If you ask me, people who can't answer simple questions about current events should not be allowed to shape public policy by voting.

ABSOLUTELY !!!

When American Idol brings more votes than a presidential election. People's priorities are fucked up !!

 

[mrplunkey]

I know people are joking about it, but you know I bet we could make a deal with South Korea and Japan. We do the initial assult. Disable the *entire* military machine. Then, they take over their pre-determined carve-up of the country. At the 5 year mark, they can sign a $500M note each to cover war costs and pay it back over the next 10 or 20 years.

I like it!

 

[bignate73]

$500 M wouldnt pay for a week...

 

[mrplunkey]

$500 M wouldnt pay for a week...

Well that would be 500M from each of them, so $1T total. Surely that could cover about 60-90 days of carpet bombing.

Here's a link: http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182 that has the cost of Iraq running around 300B. I didn't spend enough time on the site to see which direction that number might be slanted tho.

 

[gotmilk]

$500 M wouldnt pay for a week...

I just bought 29 acres in Las Vegas for $500 Million.

Of course....I have no money left for construction or a nuclear warhead

 

[redguru]

We can just send dog brain cells in a petrie dish built into one of Jack Schitt's automotive robots to lay waste to the upper half of that nondescript peninsula.

 

[gotmilk]

We can just send dog brain cells in a petrie dish built into one of Jack Schitt's automotive robots to lay waste to the upper half of that nondescript peninsula.

Yeah..or we could stop sending them rice and let another million people starve to death.

 

[bignate73]

Well that would be 500M from each of them, so $1T total. Surely that could cover about 60-90 days of carpet bombing.

Here's a link: http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182 that has the cost of Iraq running around 300B. I didn't spend enough time on the site to see which direction that number might be slanted tho.

errr...$500M x2? = 1 Billion.

THAT would pay for a week.

Coming soon to a theater: Shock and Awe 2: Oops Sorry South Korea!

 

[mrplunkey]

You know... in retrospect maybe that's part of what was missing in our Iraq strategy. We should have met with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey and Iran first. Then discussed how we were going to carve Iraq up. Then, all we sign-up for is 90 days of complete and total military maiming -- carpet bombing till they can't see the light of day. After that, we let the other guys move-in and claim their new territory and pay us for our efforts.

The real genius there is not only time time, cost and US lives it would save. The real benefit is the message we'd be sending: "Fuck with us and we'll destroy your military and carve-up your country. Have a nice day."

 

[redguru]

South Korea wouldn't be mad at us, they're still too elated from tying France in a World Cup match.

 

[mrplunkey]

errr...$500M x2? = 1 Billion.

THAT would pay for a week.

Coming soon to a theater: Shock and Awe 2: Oops Sorry South Korea!

BAH! My bad... I meant Billion!

I just got off the eliptical. My head is still swimming.

You're right... we'd need half a trillion each but that should be a relatively small price to pay for half a country.

 

[bignate73]

hehehe. yeah i thought the math was a bit off.

 

[nimbus]

You know... in retrospect maybe that's part of what was missing in our Iraq strategy. We should have met with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey and Iran first. Then discussed how we were going to carve Iraq up. Then, all we sign-up for is 90 days of complete and total military maiming -- carpet bombing till they can't see the light of day. After that, we let the other guys move-in and claim their new territory and pay us for our efforts.

The real genius there is not only time time, cost and US lives it would save. The real benefit is the message we'd be sending: "Fuck with us and we'll destroy your military and carve-up your country. Have a nice day."

How did they "fuck with us" exactly? I thought the whole point of the campaign was to 'liberate the iraqi people,' not give away their country and put them at the mercy of nations who are or were their enemies. I'm sure iran and kuwait would love to naturalize the millions of iraqi citizens who occupy their newfound territory, and vice versa.

 

[mrplunkey]

How did they "fuck with us" exactly? I thought the whole point of the campaign was to 'liberate the iraqi people,' not give away their country and put them at the mercy of nations who are or were their enemies. I'm sure iran and kuwait would love to naturalize the millions of iraqi citizens who occupy their newfound territory, and vice versa.

They fucked with us by:

1) Fighting against weapons inspection in defiance of multiple UN resolutions that people have conveniently forgotten were the TERMS of the cease-fire that ended the original Gulf War. People love to talk about us acting unilaterally but what they forget is that inspections were part of the cease fire that got us off their ass in the first place.

2) Creating the impression that they were sponsoring terrorists. Even if Sadaam wasn't giving these fringe groups money, safe haven and support (and he was) -- he still went out of his way to leave the world with the impression that he was.

3) Creating the impression that he had WMD. He obviously had them... those kurds he gassed before the Gulf War didn't choke on smog. He could have easily complied with inspections and even embarassed the US with a sparkling-clean weapons inspection report. Instead, he obfuscated UN efforts which made totally no sense at all.

And the kurds want their own state anyway. The shiate muslums weren't particularly happy being controlled by the bathe party either. Its not like that place was this homogenious, happy place to begin with.

 

[cboogsrun]

With all due respect. Your the one who does not seem to understand.

Lost people to what bullshit? The war? People die in war it's a sad reality. People had to DIE so you have the freedom to sit on your computer and post on this board.


Let them do there thing ??? So they can hold this country and others hostage with the threat of nukes?

Tell countries how to live? How in the hell does this tell them how to live?

Your right we should worry about the US. But there are serious threats to the US (which includes YOU) from abroad. And you better damn well wake up and realize that fact.

Since when did the war in Iraq liberate me or any one else I know. When I raised my right hand and was sworn in, I never heard or repeated anything about policing the world. I said I would defend the constitution against for and domestic threats. Not impede on another countries problems, especially when we have an assload here to deal with. The troops over in Iraq could easily be used to gaurd the boarder of mex/usa. Which would help my tax money get used properly instead of on mex. citizens. I'm an american and my taxes should be used to aid americans, not mexicans.

 

[mrplunkey]

Since when did the war in Iraq liberate me or any one else I know. When I raised my right hand and was sworn in, I never heard or repeated anything about policing the world. I said I would defend the constitution against for and domestic threats. Not impede on another countries problems, especially when we have an assload here to deal with. The troops over in Iraq could easily be used to gaurd the boarder of mex/usa. Which would help my tax money get used properly instead of on mex. citizens. I'm an american and my taxes should be used to aid americans, not mexicans.

The theory, whether someone agrees with it or not, is that by taking the fight to them you lessen the risk to US soil.

If your neighbor says "I have a gun and I'm going to come over and shoot you someday" you have two choices. Wait and see if he shoots you or go to his house and take the fight to him.

 

[jafo]

Sounds like a second cold war is brewing ....if it didn’t work with Russia why would they think that with less than half the resources of Russia they can make it work

They are heavily armed and have allot of well trained forces. They would not be an easy country to just run over like we did in the gulf

 

[Gambino]

he's a bullshitter, a saber rattler.
n.korea is not a successful country, it's wobbily (is that a fucking word?).
he's talking shit to get bailed out of a miserable evironment of poverty and starvation
he needs to be humbled

 

[cboogsrun]

You have no TV, no realtime access to news and current events so how are you going to base your political thought on anything more than a feeling? If you ask me, people who can't answer simple questions about current events should not be allowed to shape public policy by voting.

she has the internet. which should have all the news she needs to make judgements. Being an american who isn't a felon, she can vote knowing all the facts or not. Now needto might have some trouble, j/k sorry

 

[cboogsrun]

ABSOLUTELY !!!

When American Idol brings more votes than a presidential election. People's priorities are fucked up !!

you can also vote as much as you'd like on american idol, ask my gf she votes 20 times a night.

 

[cboogsrun]

The theory, whether someone agrees with it or not, is that by taking the fight to them you lessen the risk to US soil.

If your neighbor says "I have a gun and I'm going to come over and shoot you someday" you have two choices. Wait and see if he shoots you or go to his house and take the fight to him.

If your analogy is correct my neighbor would have no arms and be the size of a fetus. Doesn't sound much like a threat, but an easy way to justify bullying someone. "I was defending myself against the armless midget who said he had a gun"

 

[cboogsrun]

Sounds like a second cold war is brewing ....if it didn’t work with Russia why would they think that with less than half the resources of Russia they can make it work

They are heavily armed and have allot of well trained forces. They would not be an easy country to just run over like we did in the gulf

Russia is far less advanced technoligically. It takes them 3 guys to do what we can do with 1 from miles away. The war would only take longer because their country is so big. It would still be an asswhooping. they'd also probably fight by the geneva conventions, or at least more so than insurgents do.

 

[cboogsrun]

They fucked with us by:

1) Fighting against weapons inspection in defiance of multiple UN resolutions that people have conveniently forgotten were the TERMS of the cease-fire that ended the original Gulf War. People love to talk about us acting unilaterally but what they forget is that inspections were part of the cease fire that got us off their ass in the first place.

2) Creating the impression that they were sponsoring terrorists. Even if Sadaam wasn't giving these fringe groups money, safe haven and support (and he was) -- he still went out of his way to leave the world with the impression that he was.

3) Creating the impression that he had WMD. He obviously had them... those kurds he gassed before the Gulf War didn't choke on smog. He could have easily complied with inspections and even embarassed the US with a sparkling-clean weapons inspection report. Instead, he obfuscated UN efforts which made totally no sense at all.

And the kurds want their own state anyway. The shiate muslums weren't particularly happy being controlled by the bathe party either. Its not like that place was this homogenious, happy place to begin with.

He did sponsor terrorist in isreal. He gave suicide bombers families 25k to their palestenian friends. However he told everyone Bush was after a witch hunt when it came to the wmd. He may have lured Bush into a fight to make him look like a bully, but it worked. He made himself a matyr. I truly believe we could easily manage saddam more so than these insurgents. We knew exactly what we were up against with him. Now the variables are intangible. We went into this thing without the UN, bad move. bush's daddy even said going north to bagdad was stupid. Now we have to stay there and see this thing threw. Which costs the us taxpayers. fortunately bush pays more taxes then most of us do. Unfortunately he's getting filthy rich on oil and laughing his way to the bank. Everyone forcasted this gas hike because of our involvement in the middle east. So a energy plan wouldn't have done shit for us. Bush is a liar and manipulater, and on top of that he is a coward who joined the air gaurd to stay out of war. Senator Mccain should run, I think he'd do a stand up job.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

Its okay guys..

President Bush has his top scientist working on a tin foil shield to cover most of America to protect us from randomly fired North Korean missiles.


Look guys these idiots cant even develop a computer comparable to a 286..

you actually think they can build a missile with enough accuracy to cover a quarter of the planet..

besides you know that shit will just hit Canada and kill a bunch of trees.


But since no one is actually in Canada.. no one will even hear them fall.

 

[jnevin]

I just bought 29 acres in Las Vegas for $500 Million.

Of course....I have no money left for construction or a nuclear warhead

Horrible buy in a depreciating market. I hope you plan to find a way to create the next Henderson...

 

[777-9311]

ah yes my dream come true...USA wiped right off the map!!!

North Korea is going to be testing a long-range ballistic missile...one capable of reaching the continental United States. The missiles appear to be fueled up and ready to go..on a remote section of North Korea's coast. The missile is large enough to carry a nuclear weapon.
So what is North Korea up to? Why would they need such a weapon? Well, yesterday North Korea issued a statement promising to "mercilessly wipe out" US forces in the event of war.
We didn't tolerate missiles in Cuba pointed at the United States and we shouldn't tolerate one in North Korea pointed at the United States. But this is what you get when you "negotiate" with a rogue thug like the insane Kim Jong-Il. We have been negotiating with North Korea for years. The Clinton administration even sent the Secretary of State to make a worthless agreement with that nutcase...one that he immediately broke.
They've done this before...in 1998. North Korea fired a missile over Japan..without warning. Japan says North Korea can expect a harsh response from the United States if they do it again. Why should we wait?

 

[milo hobgoblin]

Well, yesterday North Korea issued a statement promising to "mercilessly wipe out" US forces in the event of war.

man that one poorly built nuclear missile is a HUGE threat to the entire uS.

retard, do you have any idea what would happen if the United States wielded the full might of its armed forces in open conventional on any country of the world .. including China?

Do you realize that one F22 raptor can take down 10 MIG 29's simultaneously before its even in range of their radar? A stealth fighter has the signature of a butterfly.. even to the best built radar in the US arsenal.

You could fly F117's into downtown Moscow before they had any idea you were there.

In a full on .. politically unrestricted war... no country.. no group of countries on this planet would hold a candle to the US armed forces in a conventional war.

Within a week we would hold the entire airspace of any 1st world country. North korea cant even feed its own people and without Chinas support they wouldnt last a month in ANY extended engagement. They are a dying country gasping its last breath.

Have any of you ever seen what an old ass A10.. a SINGLE A10 can do a field of fully armor T72's? That reactive armor plating peels off like butter. It may as well not be there.

Get over the whole "destroy America' crap.. it aint gonna happen.. the only thing that will bring us down is our own government acting like like the dumbasses they are.

 

[Gambino]

Its okay guys..

President Bush has his top scientist working on a tin foil shield to cover most of America to protect us from randomly fired North Korean missiles.


Look guys these idiots cant even develop a computer comparable to a 286..

you actually think they can build a missile with enough accuracy to cover a quarter of the planet..

besides you know that shit will just hit Canada and kill a bunch of trees.


But since no one is actually in Canada.. no one will even hear them fall.

i dunno about the n.koreans on their own, but surely they've had expertise advice from USSR and paki scientists...i wouldn't discount them entirely.
with that said, before the nuke hit our soil n.korea would be a ashville

 

[TADHealth]

Sounds like they are just saying.... if you FUCK with us, we will FUCK with you.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

i dunno about the n.koreans on their own, but surely they've had expertise advice from USSR and paki scientists...i wouldn't discount them entirely.
with that said, before the nuke hit our soil n.korea would be a ashville

The USSR?

Let me make one point about Russia technology... I got this from a test pilot I know very well.

I once asked him what he though of Russia top line fighters..

He said "they fly great, but have you ever seen an airshow where one of themhasnt crashed due to mechanical failure"


Here is a big secret in regards to military technology....

Making it is one thing.. MAINTAINING it is a WHOLE NOTHER BALL OF WAX.

Those missiles, planes and other neat toys take A LOT.. I mean A LOT of fucking maintenance...

and thats something that countries like N Korea and Russia just cant afford anymore.

 

[cboogsrun]

The USSR?

Let me make one point about Russia technology... I got this from a test pilot I know very well.

I once asked him what he though of Russia top line fighters..

He said "they fly great, but have you ever seen an airshow where one of themhasnt crashed due to mechanical failure"


Here is a big secret in regards to military technology....

Making it is one thing.. MAINTAINING it is a WHOLE NOTHER BALL OF WAX.

Those missiles, planes and other neat toys take A LOT.. I mean A LOT of fucking maintenance...

and thats something that countries like N Korea and Russia just cant afford anymore.

Your right about their finances, they can barely feed their country. How are they going to fund any type of war. They'll put sanctions on the usa and we'll stop sending them wheat and all sorts of shit, then they'll starve for a bit and give in. When was the last time I read a russian paper looking to see when one of their planes went down? When was the last time any US television would report on it? If they don't have money how can they maintain these highly dependable planes? What planes would they have anyway after a stealth bomber took their whole fleet out with 1 bomb?

 

[mrplunkey]

If your analogy is correct my neighbor would have no arms and be the size of a fetus. Doesn't sound much like a threat, but an easy way to justify bullying someone. "I was defending myself against the armless midget who said he had a gun"

No, having weapons-grade fissionable materials and a missle you can load it onto makes you a lot more dangerous than an "armless midget". If the Dominican Republic was talking shit it would be one thing, but this guy is publicizing tests of his missles.

Once the test firing is successful, would he still be a "armless midget"?

 

[cboogsrun]

No, having weapons-grade fissionable materials and a missle you can load it onto makes you a lot more dangerous than an "armless midget". If the Dominican Republic was talking shit it would be one thing, but this guy is publicizing tests of his missles.

Once the test firing is successful, would he still be a "armless midget"?

your previous post that I commented on was about Iraq not N. Korea. I've thought for the past 4 years that N. Korea was far more dangerous than Iraq. However, being mobilized in afgan, boznia, and Iraq; just seems we'd spread ourselves thin. There are quite a few troops in S. Korea already, but not enough to hold the 38th parellel, let alone fight a war.

 

[mrplunkey]

your previous post that I commented on was about Iraq not N. Korea. I've thought for the past 4 years that N. Korea was far more dangerous than Iraq. However, being mobilized in afgan, boznia, and Iraq; just seems we'd spread ourselves thin. There are quite a few troops in S. Korea already, but not enough to hold the 38th parellel, let alone fight a war.

Which puts us right back at my original idea. Let's meet with South Korea and Japan and pre-carve up the country. Then, we sign-up for a 90 day air-only campaign to disable their military. Once they are softened-up, Japan and South Korea have to actually take their newly-acquired territory.

That would minimize both American lives lost and cost.

 

[bignate73]

they should develop a worldwide Karma system like here. then we could bomb them, they get the picture and at the end of the day its all good!

 

[Iamkimjong]

they should develop a worldwide Karma system like here. then we could bomb them, they get the picture and at the end of the day its all good!

all americans will fear the stwength of my massivre missilr when I raunch in the midder of teh night

 

[cboogsrun]

Which puts us right back at my original idea. Let's meet with South Korea and Japan and pre-carve up the country. Then, we sign-up for a 90 day air-only campaign to disable their military. Once they are softened-up, Japan and South Korea have to actually take their newly-acquired territory.

That would minimize both American lives lost and cost.

that sounds like a good plan. their might be some other people who don't entirely care for this plan such as china and russia, but if the UN is behind us this time, i would say go for it. Does Japan have a military? I thought after ww2 the US was defending them. Not sure. The thing about dealing with asian countries is trust. They are extremely manipulative. Look at how the N Koreans and Vietnamese used POW's as trading rights. They put innocent woman and children around them so when we attacked them and killed an innocent person, they could say we were murderers. I wouldn't trust them to stand up to their part of the deal.

 

[Spartacus]

Since when did the war in Iraq liberate me or any one else I know. When I raised my right hand and was sworn in, I never heard or repeated anything about policing the world. I said I would defend the constitution against for and domestic threats. Not impede on another countries problems, especially when we have an assload here to deal with. The troops over in Iraq could easily be used to gaurd the boarder of mex/usa. Which would help my tax money get used properly instead of on mex. citizens. I'm an american and my taxes should be used to aid americans, not mexicans.

I think it would be good idea to have the soldiers pick lettuce and other produce while they keep the mexicans out
work it in shifts so the borders are sound and I got my dollar a head lettuce
while their at it send some other troops to new orleans and train 'em to be roofers

 

[Spartacus]

He did sponsor terrorist in isreal. He gave suicide bombers families 25k to their palestenian friends. However he told everyone Bush was after a witch hunt when it came to the wmd. He may have lured Bush into a fight to make him look like a bully, but it worked. He made himself a matyr. I truly believe we could easily manage saddam more so than these insurgents. We knew exactly what we were up against with him. Now the variables are intangible. We went into this thing without the UN, bad move. bush's daddy even said going north to bagdad was stupid. Now we have to stay there and see this thing threw. Which costs the us taxpayers. fortunately bush pays more taxes then most of us do. Unfortunately he's getting filthy rich on oil and laughing his way to the bank. Everyone forcasted this gas hike because of our involvement in the middle east. So a energy plan wouldn't have done shit for us. Bush is a liar and manipulater, and on top of that he is a coward who joined the air gaurd to stay out of war. Senator Mccain should run, I think he'd do a stand up job.

gas prices going uo has much more to do with emerging markets with billions of people now purchasing cars and all that other petro using activity that goes along with industrialization
yet get two guesses as to which 2 countries I'm refering to

 

[Spartacus]

Its okay guys..

President Bush has his top scientist working on a tin foil shield to cover most of America to protect us from randomly fired North Korean missiles.


Look guys these idiots cant even develop a computer comparable to a 286..

you actually think they can build a missile with enough accuracy to cover a quarter of the planet..

besides you know that shit will just hit Canada and kill a bunch of trees.


But since no one is actually in Canada.. no one will even hear them fall.

or melt some snow
or both

 

[Spartacus]

man that one poorly built nuclear missile is a HUGE threat to the entire uS.

retard, do you have any idea what would happen if the United States wielded the full might of its armed forces in open conventional on any country of the world .. including China?

Do you realize that one F22 raptor can take down 10 MIG 29's simultaneously before its even in range of their radar? A stealth fighter has the signature of a butterfly.. even to the best built radar in the US arsenal.

You could fly F117's into downtown Moscow before they had any idea you were there.

In a full on .. politically unrestricted war... no country.. no group of countries on this planet would hold a candle to the US armed forces in a conventional war.

Within a week we would hold the entire airspace of any 1st world country. North korea cant even feed its own people and without Chinas support they wouldnt last a month in ANY extended engagement. They are a dying country gasping its last breath.

Have any of you ever seen what an old ass A10.. a SINGLE A10 can do a field of fully armor T72's? That reactive armor plating peels off like butter. It may as well not be there.

Get over the whole "destroy America' crap.. it aint gonna happen.. the only thing that will bring us down is our own government acting like like the dumbasses they are.

you didn't even mention the USN and our subs
we could wipe out all of china's major metro areas in hours

 

[cboogsrun]

I think it would be good idea to have the soldiers pick lettuce and other produce while they keep the mexicans out
work it in shifts so the borders are sound and I got my dollar a head lettuce
while their at it send some other troops to new orleans and train 'em to be roofers

I think it would be a great idea to reform the wellfare programs. Incorporating available jobs from their community into their foodstamp program. Giving local employers tax breaks for taking on the risk of hiring some of the scum who abuse the system. If they had to keep a job to get the benefits, I bet picking lettuce and roofing would be much better than not getting any assistance at all. There are so many ways to get people to do the shit jobs. When I first started building retaining walls, I did a ton of shitty shit. Through an assload of hardwork, I know own a construction company, building retaining walls. I travel all over the country and get to have a blast. It wasn't easy making 8$ an hour and paying rent and all the things that go with it. But I never once used welfare. I worked 60 hr weeks sweating my ass off to make ends meet. Some people need a push and some don't. The government should protect itself and taxpaying citizens.

 

[Spartacus]

btw
fuck the UN
just look at the top guy of that outfit
yeah,we should defer our nation's security interests to that shit run org

 

[covergrl80]

When was the last time you bought something from Korea and it really worked? Chances are there bomb won't work, so no worry here

 

[redguru]

When was the last time you bought something from Korea and it really worked? Chances are there bomb won't work, so no worry here

The KIA's of Nuclear technology.

 

[gotmilk]

you didn't even mention the USN and our subs
we could wipe out all of china's major metro areas in hours

Did you see CNN tonight? We must have about 30 or 40 warships in the Pacific right now....

A bunch of B-2 bombers being relocated to the Pacific too.

Remember when that train blew up in North Korea almost two years ago? How much do you want to bet that sucker had some rocket fuel on board? The explosion literally wiped out half a town.

 

[Spartacus]

Hyundai is doing quite well now

 

[BigRupe]

well we should wait because alot of our troops are already in iraq and afghanistan.
We have lost enough people because of that bullshit. We obviously will lose a hell of alot more if N korea fucks with us.
I say leave them alone and let them do their thing as long as no one gets effected or hurt by it. We have NO right to tell other countries how to live! We should worry about the U.S.A and thats it. No one can seem to understand that!

Angel with all due respect. In North Korea between 500 and 800 THOUSAND people die of starvation each year, meanwhile Kim Jong-il has failed to prioritize the needs of his country, spending 890 million US dollars on construction of his father's tomb, money that could have bought enough corn to feed his people for three years.

The man is INSANE and as far as having no right...let me put it to you like this.

Suppose you have a sexual predator who is terrorizing the people that live in his apartment building. He has all kinds of weapons and he's looking across the street at you and telling YOU that you're the next victim on his list.

meanwhile you can hear the screams of those who are udner his control and you see first hand their misery and you no damn well the man is insane and he will get you.

Not only that, but he's enabling sexual predators all over your neighborhood to commit heinous criminal acts with his sales of weapons.

So do you still feel you have "no right" to take this sick SOB out and give him a dirt nap???

I suggest the following links so you can better understand why we MUST deal with this lunatic

http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501030609/story.html

http://www.rickross.com/groups/nkorea.html

 

[cboogsrun]

Angel with all due respect. In North Korea between 500 and 800 THOUSAND people die of starvation each year, meanwhile Kim Jong-il has failed to prioritize the needs of his country, spending 890 million US dollars on construction of his father's tomb, money that could have bought enough corn to feed his people for three years.

The man is INSANE and as far as having no right...let me put it to you like this.

Suppose you have a sexual predator who is terrorizing the people that live in his apartment building. He has all kinds of weapons and he's looking across the street at you and telling YOU that you're the next victim on his list.

meanwhile you can hear the screams of those who are udner his control and you see first hand their misery and you no damn well the man is insane and he will get you.

Not only that, but he's enabling sexual predators all over your neighborhood to commit heinous criminal acts with his sales of weapons.

So do you still feel you have "no right" to take this sick SOB out and give him a dirt nap???

I suggest the following links so you can better understand why we MUST deal with this lunatic

http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501030609/story.html

http://www.rickross.com/groups/nkorea.html

Lets keep in mind this is in her neighborhood. Bush did a very simular thing with tax money. He asked for an extra 87 billion dollars to go to war. When was the last time he asked for an extra 87 billion dollars to help kids go to college when their parents can't afford it. Spending our resources to police the world when there are just as many screwed up things here, just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Phenom78]

Lets keep in mind this is in her neighborhood. Bush did a very simular thing with tax money. He asked for an extra 87 billion dollars to go to war. When was the last time he asked for an extra 87 billion dollars to help kids go to college when their parents can't afford it. Spending our resources to police the world when there are just as many screwed up things here, just doesn't make sense to me.

How about over 300 billion a year in social programs. A full 100 billion+ annually more being spent than at any time during the Clinton Administration

Additionally tens of billions more per year for funding of public education.

Not to mention new prescription drug benefits which will cost taxpayers well over a trillion dollars in the next several years.


Glad you gave it so much thought.

 

[Lao Tzu]

well we should wait because alot of our troops are already in iraq and afghanistan.

We have lost enough people because of that bullshit. We obviously will lose a hell of alot more if N korea fucks with us.

I say leave them alone and let them do their thing as long as no one gets effected or hurt by it. We have NO right to tell other countries how to live!

We should worry about the U.S.A and thats it. No one can seem to understand that!

There won't be any war anytime soon. THey have been in a standoff with the US and S. Korea for about 50 years.

We do have a country to tell other countries how to live within reason. We can implement sanctions and refuse to trade with them as well as use economic pressure until their domestic situation improves. As it stands N. Korea is the most human rights and civil rights unfriendly country on earth. There is nothing wrong with using our power to try to nudge them into more liberal policies, unless doing so could lead to military conflict. Human rights are not something that a stalinist state gets to define. The US, the EU and Japan all criticize N Korea with good reason for its treatment of its own citizens.

We shouldn't worry just about the USA for a variety of reasons. For one most people who vote & pay taxes disagree with that idea and most people support humanitarian aid and encouraging liberal domestic policies in foreign countries. Another is that our national security is not based on domestic issues, but global issues. If we have a shitty reputation and the world is going to hell, that makes our domestic nation less safe. The entire concept of communism was born out of massive discontentment and anger. So was nazism. So is islamic terrorism. Reasonably content people with good jobs, human rights and a functioning state generally don't blow themselves up or fight to create dictatorial countries that the US then has to go to war against. The countries that are the biggest threats to the US are also the most backwards basket cases (N. Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya). There is something called the democratic peace theory that finds liberal, representative governments almost never declare war on each other. I made a post not long ago pointing out how less than a few billion dollars in humanitarian aid managed to turn about 200 million people in Indonesia & Pakistan against Bin Ladin and towards the US.

As for why they are doing this, I have read alot on N. Korea and they approach international diplomacy with the mentality of a criminal stuck in a motel with a bunch of hostages. They know they have no real cards or authority other than their ability to cause millions of deaths and trillions of dollars in economic damage the same way a hostage taker knows he has nothing other than his ability to kill civilians and the desire of others not to have that happen. So their military is mostly designed to destroy civilian lives and infrastructure, not win a war. They have alot of military weapons pointed at civilian building in S Korea, missiles that can reach cities in Japan and now ICBMs that can reach western US. Their goal with this test is to just let the US know that if war breaks out they can kill a few million of our civilians and cause several trillion in damage. The best comparison is to think of it as a hostage taker shooting someone in the leg to let the cops know they mean business and can and will hurt people. The N. Koreans have no money, no economy, no real allies and a military of starving soldiers armed with AK47s. All they have is their ability to kill civilians and they know it.

The problem is that the N. Korean government knows this too and knows they are untouchable because of it. No treaty can really hold that depends on the N. Korean government to hold up its end as they know there isn't much the outside world can or will do about it because of this leverage they have.

 

[BigRupe]

Lets keep in mind this is in her neighborhood. Bush did a very simular thing with tax money. He asked for an extra 87 billion dollars to go to war. When was the last time he asked for an extra 87 billion dollars to help kids go to college when their parents can't afford it. Spending our resources to police the world when there are just as many screwed up things here, just doesn't make sense to me.

REALITY CHECK time; with ICBM's capable of hitting the US mainland it NOW becomes our backyard.

As to your straw man arguement about kids and college....

No kid in America is denied college because of his financial status. If there's a will there's a way. My family was lower middle class we had no money, I received student loans, a Pell grant for ONE freaking year, and I BUSTED my ass and worked a shitty job on the campus for 2 and a half years in the plumbing department unclogging toilets, replacing urinals, some nasty smelly jobs so don't be giving me some shit about not being able to go to college.

All 3 of us went to college and we did it on sweat equity and studying hard.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Lets keep in mind this is in her neighborhood. Bush did a very simular thing with tax money. He asked for an extra 87 billion dollars to go to war. When was the last time he asked for an extra 87 billion dollars to help kids go to college when their parents can't afford it. Spending our resources to police the world when there are just as many screwed up things here, just doesn't make sense to me.

In America we spend about 850 billion in taxes on education, about 300-350 billion of that going to college. It should be more for the less fortunate, but it is still a high amount.

And humanitarian aid is pretty cheap. Bush has a plan to spend $3 billion a year on HIV drugs in Africa. That is less than 1% of what we spend publically on college.

http://www.architectureforhumanity.org/programs/old files/factsheet.htm

This will do alot for our reputation, which will also do alot to cut down on terrorism and improve support for the US. Not only that but the worse shape a country is in, the more likely it is to fall to hell and then later on the US gets involved anyway. When was the last time the US went to war with a well functioning democracy that had well fed people, a functioning economy and a good amount of rights for the people who lived there?

A few billion for Pakistan & Indonesia turned the tide against terrorism. During these crisises these people knew the US military and government was helping people, but Bin Ladin was sitting in his cave trying to figure out how to kill civilians to institute a backwards dictatorship. That fact wasn't lost on people in Pakistan & Indonesia, and our reputation improved because of it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/12/AR2005101202206.html

A survey of 1,200 Indonesians one month after the tsunami, sponsored by Terror Free Tomorrow and conducted by a leading Indonesian pollster, found that, for the first time, more Indonesians (40 percent) supported the U.S. terrorism fight than opposed it (36 percent). Sixty-five percent of those surveyed had a more favorable impression of the United States, with support strongest among those younger than 30, while support for Osama bin Laden dropped from 58 percent before the tsunami to 23 percent. Terror Free Tomorrow is a nonpartisan group that studies popular support for global terrorism.

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=18df85cd94bd890150211c3fcfe3aebc

Released today (December 19, 2005), the poll commissioned by the nonprofit organization Terror Free Tomorrow and conducted by Pakistan's foremost pollsters ACNielsen Pakistan shows that the number of Pakistanis with a favorable opinion of the US doubled to more than 46% at the end of November from 23% in May 2005. Those with very unfavorable views declined to 28% from 48% over the same period.

 

[Lao Tzu]

REALITY CHECK time; with ICBM's capable of hitting the US mainland it NOW becomes our backyard.

As to your straw man arguement about kids and college....

No kid in America is denied college because of his financial status. If there's a will there's a way. My family was lower middle class we had no money, I received student loans, a Pell grant for ONE freaking year, and I BUSTED my ass and worked a shitty job on the campus for 2 and a half years in the plumbing department unclogging toilets, replacing urinals, some nasty smelly jobs so don't be giving me some shit about not being able to go to college.

All 3 of us went to college and we did it on sweat equity and studying hard.

Out of curiosity was your job a work study grant where you had to work for the university or a charity?

 

[Phenom78]

Interesting post Lao.

I think it also reflects a similar reality manifesting itself in the Mid East itself. It wasn't for shits and giggles that Al Qaeda leadership made a public attempt at chastising Zarquawi just before his death for targeting muslims.

All those whining about how were losing know little about the situation on the ground. Among other things Al Qaeda, having no success with attacking US forces, was compelled to try to manufacture a civil war by attacking Iraqi civilians. That has caused an opinion shift among large numbers of muslims.

They loved Al Qaeda so long as they were blowing up Americans and other westerners. But once they started attacking muslims even Saudi citizens started to take a step back and reevaluate their support. Even the Saudi leadership is changing its stance on exporting Wahabiism and blocking liberal reform within SA. Nothing changes your mind quicker than seeing the shit youve been shoveling everywhere else show up in your house. The same is happening in countries like Egypt as well.

So while it does make the headlines, the targeting of Iraqi civilians in particular hasn't helped their support in the region.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Interesting post Lao.

I think it also reflects a similar reality manifesting itself in the Mid East itself. It wasn't for shits and giggles that Al Qaeda leadership made a public attempt at chastising Zarquawi just before his death for targeting muslims.

All those whining about how were losing know little about the situation on the ground. Among other things Al Qaeda, having no success with attacking US forces, was compelled to try to manufacture a civil war by attacking Iraqi civilians. That has caused an opinion shift among large numbers of muslims.

They loved Al Qaeda so long as they were blowing up Americans and other westerners. But once they started attacking muslims even Saudi citizens started to take a step back and reevaluate their support. Even the Saudi leadership is changing its stance on exporting Wahabiism and blocking liberal reform within SA. Nothing changes your mind quicker than seeing the shit youve been shoveling everywhere else show up in your house. The same is happening in countries like Egypt as well.

So while it does make the headlines, the targeting of Iraqi civilians in particular hasn't helped their support in the region.

Yup. I knew a guy from Egypt who said that what also helped lower support for terrorism was when they were elected democratically. In governments like Kuwait & Jordan the radical terrorist fringe would be elected, prove themselves inept, and be voted out. This also cut support for terrorism.

This is a psychological war, not a military war like WW2 or any of the other wars. A few billion in strategic humanitarian aid or a few policies that show muslims what terrorists truly stand for can do alot to change support for terrorism.

 

[cboogsrun]

How about over 300 billion a year in social programs. A full 100 billion+ annually more being spent than at any time during the Clinton Administration

Additionally tens of billions more per year for funding of public education.

Not to mention new prescription drug benefits which will cost taxpayers well over a trillion dollars in the next several years.


Glad you gave it so much thought.

Allright here's the thought bright eyes. I specifically was talking about college education. Every kid has the opportunity to go to k-12. But a lot of kids can't afford to go to college. What about the tens of billions more he has spent on the war. The war has taken up far more money than any other program. For 1 battallion to go to NTC in CA, it cost a million a day. And that is not adding in costs of loosing tanks or m2a2's. So you give it a thought slap balls.

 

[cboogsrun]

REALITY CHECK time; with ICBM's capable of hitting the US mainland it NOW becomes our backyard.

As to your straw man arguement about kids and college....

No kid in America is denied college because of his financial status. If there's a will there's a way. My family was lower middle class we had no money, I received student loans, a Pell grant for ONE freaking year, and I BUSTED my ass and worked a shitty job on the campus for 2 and a half years in the plumbing department unclogging toilets, replacing urinals, some nasty smelly jobs so don't be giving me some shit about not being able to go to college.

All 3 of us went to college and we did it on sweat equity and studying hard.

You should be proud of your accomplishment, however not everyone is in your situation. I know people who live off their student loans, buy nice cars with them. Then when they finish school and can't find a job they are screwed. The price of education has become outrageous due to student loans. I think you pay 3% interest or something like that. So its cheap money and lenders will lend it fairly easily. This already puts someone upside down when they go out to the job market. Some people have children and their time for school, work, kids, keeping house is almost impossible. I know single parents due fairly well on financial aid. My gf didn't do so hot. I think she got taken to the cleaners and she's a minority. In a year and a half she'll be 40 grand deep. In which 15 grand she had to start paying on 6 months ago, even though she is still in school.

 

[BigRupe]

Out of curiosity was your job a work study grant where you had to work for the university or a charity?

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not as a "plumbing" job would not be considered a work study grant by anyone.

I worked for the college's maintenance department I did lots of things but mostly plumbing and I knew NOTHING about it. My major was premed.

My income went directly to the school and I could petition to have a small sum given to me every two weeks, but basically my whole check went to my tuition and room and board.

I was dirt poor for almost 4 years living in a small dorm room eating cafeteria food and studying my ass off so I don't buy into the nonsense about government spending someone else's money to pay some kids way through school.

I received a total of $2500 in grants in 4 years and I pay more than that back each week in taxes as owner of my own company.LOL

 

[mkazzbmf]

If the US was to attack N. Korea.....it would give those assholes an excuse to use the missles they have...then what???? RIGHT we ALL die. The US would have attacked them already if that threat wasnt there. What we need is to infiltrate that country with spies and kill the pres

 

[BigRupe]

You should be proud of your accomplishment, however not everyone is in your situation. I know people who live off their student loans, buy nice cars with them. Then when they finish school and can't find a job they are screwed. .

Well then that's their CHOICE, they made that poor decision and I don't see how more tax dollars thrown at it will help nor does it have anything to do with North Korea.

The price of education has become outrageous due to student loans. I think you pay 3% interest or something like that. So its cheap money and lenders will lend it fairly easily. This already puts someone upside down when they go out to the job market..

I went to a private university and it was expensive and back then the interest rates were around 11%! Again I know some students who worked 2 jobs to put themselves through school.

Some people have children and their time for school, work, kids, keeping house is almost impossible. I know single parents due fairly well on financial aid. .

Education is a priviledge as is college. It is not a right and NO WHERE in the Constitution does it grant the right to our government to seize the assets of one citizen to pay for the education of another citizen's children because he or she does not want to work, borrow or earn the money to pay for it themselves. Nor are we guaranteed that our struggles to become better people and our desire to become better educated would be easy and cost us nothing.

I have no clue what your point is about cleaning the house in the context of our discussion. You keep throwing out irrelevant points. Keeping the house clean has nothing to do with a person paying their own way through school which has nothing to do with Bush spending 87 Billion on the Iraq war which has nothing to do with the original topic which was North Korea and their ability to hit the continental us with a nuclear weapon.

Please pick a lane and try to stay in it.

My gf didn't do so hot. I think she got taken to the cleaners and she's a minority. In a year and a half she'll be 40 grand deep. In which 15 grand she had to start paying on 6 months ago, even though she is still in school.

Why throw in the part "and she's a minority"? What does that have to do with anything? For every loan you take out, for every school expense you subject yourself to as some point in the process you MUST make a willful decision to shoulder that burden, sign that loan document and so on.

I have no sympathy for someone who makes a poor decision and then expects someone else's tax dollars to bail them out of it.

 

[Lao Tzu]

nevermind

 

[cboogsrun]

Well then that's their CHOICE, they made that poor decision and I don't see how more tax dollars thrown at it will help nor does it have anything to do with North Korea.

I was referring to the 87 billion dollars Bush went to congress for. So your right it doesn't have anything to do with Korea. I personally think Korea needs much more attention then Iraq. I also think their needs to be more thought put into this altercation than was the case with Iraq. I would also think by your post your either Christ and have never made a mistake or don't have children. Compassion isn't a weakness its a comodity.


I went to a private university and it was expensive and back then the interest rates were around 11%! Again I know some students who worked 2 jobs to put themselves through school.





Education is a priviledge as is college. It is not a right and NO WHERE in the Constitution does it grant the right to our government to seize the assets of one citizen to pay for the education of another citizen's children because he or she does not want to work, borrow or earn the money to pay for it themselves. Nor are we guaranteed that our struggles to become better people and our desire to become better educated would be easy and cost us nothing.

BOOGS: I believe there have been an assload of tax breaks, so noones assets are being seized. I think the budget needs to be handled better and priorities need to be redefined.

I have no clue what your point is about cleaning the house in the context of our discussion. You keep throwing out irrelevant points. Keeping the house clean has nothing to do with a person paying their own way through school which has nothing to do with Bush spending 87 Billion on the Iraq war which has nothing to do with the original topic which was North Korea and their ability to hit the continental us with a nuclear weapon.

BOOGS: Again, I would think you don't have kids. The conversation has shifted from NKorea to Iraq because we are currently in conflict with Iraq and have a substantial amount of troops there. Not to mention Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afgan. It is a legitimate point that we are spread thin. I would wonder if a draft card would change your views.

BOOGS: There are about a million different variables and anyone can make a good argument for their point of view, and I respect every knowledgeable view. I happen to have been in the Army and know that troops don't get taken care of. Soldiers are just a number in the governments computer system. I have 4 very close friends in Iraq and Afgan right now. Not to mention a personal friend of mine that was killed in combat. James C. Kearney III.

Please pick a lane and try to stay in it.

BOOGS: I think I'll stay in the lane that is for the "felt dooped by Iraq and am very suspicious of our leadership" lane.





Why throw in the part "and she's a minority"? What does that have to do with anything? For every loan you take out, for every school expense you subject yourself to as some point in the process you MUST make a willful decision to shoulder that burden, sign that loan document and so on.

BOOGS: Minorities get huge breaks on all sorts of things. Lets say for example if you are a minority employer you can get the gov. to pay for a portion of your equipment, bid on certain jobs that others can't, ect.... When was the last time you heard of the United Caucasion College Fund? She's black, its relevant.


I have no sympathy for someone who makes a poor decision and then expects someone else's tax dollars to bail them out of it.

BOOGS: So you don't believe in welfare at all then? Up until this comment you have made a very good presentation of yourself. It sounds like you don't think anyone deserves a hand up, since you had to do it the hard way. Very selfish in my opinion and spiteful.

 

[BigRupe]

I was referring to the 87 billion dollars Bush went to congress for. So your right it doesn't have anything to do with Korea. I personally think Korea needs much more attention then Iraq. I also think their needs to be more thought put into this altercation than was the case with Iraq. I would also think by your post your either Christ and have never made a mistake or don't have children. Compassion isn't a weakness its a comodity..

I have 3 children, I am unable to perform miracles nor do I walk on water,and I have made many mistakes the "difference" is I don't expect a tax payer somewhere in America to pay for my mistakes. As to compassion. I am involved in more charitable work that probably 99% of the people on this forum. I am one of the major fund raisers for Benefit4kids an alternative to Make-A-Wish. With a son who has CP, I am one of the board members of the local CP chapter, and I am involved in numerous church charities and Farmers and Hunters Feeding the Hungry.

The distinction is my goal is to let private sector from their hearts do it instead of having laws made to steal tax payers income which is poorly spent and often mismanaged. Case in point so far the government has found 1.4 BILLION dollars worth of fraud committed by Katrina victims. That's YOUR money and mine wasted by a bloated bueracracy and being fleeced by the "victims"!

BOOGS: I believe there have been an assload of tax breaks, so noones assets are being seized. I think the budget needs to be handled better and priorities need to be redefined..

Yes there have been tax breaks and they have STIMULATED the economy leading to record home sales and the creation of millions of new jobs. That is a good thing and I;m glad you recognize it, BUT people still pay taxes and thus assets are being seized. Every paycheck you get your assets, my assets, and any person in this Nation with a job that involves a paycheck is having a significant portion of the assets i.e income seized. I paid over $370,000 in state and Federal taxes last year. Money that was SEIZED from me by the Federal government at risk of imprisonment if I did not pay!

BOOGS: Again, I would think you don't have kids. The conversation has shifted from NKorea to Iraq because we are currently in conflict with Iraq and have a substantial amount of troops there. Not to mention Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afgan. It is a legitimate point that we are spread thin. I would wonder if a draft card would change your views..

Again you are all over the board and unable to concentrate on one cogent point. What does having children have to do with North Korea and ICBM's....no wait it has everything to do with children as I don't want a bomb to land near their school one day and incincerate them so I feel we need to STOP NK from their goals of nuclear missles.

BOOGS: There are about a million different variables and anyone can make a good argument for their point of view, and I respect every knowledgeable view. I happen to have been in the Army and know that troops don't get taken care of. Soldiers are just a number in the governments computer system. I have 4 very close friends in Iraq and Afgan right now. Not to mention a personal friend of mine that was killed in combat. James C. Kearney III..

Served in the Air Force and I am proud of that fact.

BOOGS: I think I'll stay in the lane that is for the "felt dooped by Iraq and am very suspicious of our leadership" lane..

Well that's a new lane as that's the first time you mentioned it even though this thread has NOTHING to do with Iraq, but with KOREA. So I guess this means you admit defeat on the issue of taxes and tax breaks and funding education and so on???

BOOGS: Minorities get huge breaks on all sorts of things. Lets say for example if you are a minority employer you can get the gov. to pay for a portion of your equipment, bid on certain jobs that others can't, ect.... When was the last time you heard of the United Caucasion College Fund? She's black, its relevant..

I agree minorities should NOT be given tax breaks and you said she was "ripped off" and "a minority" which again has nothing to do with your newly announced position about the NAACP, UNCF, or the non existant UCCF

BOOGS: So you don't believe in welfare at all then? Up until this comment you have made a very good presentation of yourself. It sounds like you don't think anyone deserves a hand up, since you had to do it the hard way. Very selfish in my opinion and spitef.

Now you are putting words in my mouth. First off since I did it the hard way then ANYONE can, but you don't want people to do it the hard way. You want myslef and others to be forced to shoulder the cost, even while admitting people are abusing the programs.

My whole point in telling you my story is your position that the Federal government is the answer is Bull Shit. I and my two brothers PROVE that 3 poor kids can bust their asses, work shitty jobs, study hard and make a life in this world with "MINIMAL" assistance from the Federal government.

My one brother is a journalist, the other is in LE at a top level, and I have a medical financial legal company. We gained our life goals despite our adversities. And it did suck and was tough. I lived on peanuts, bananas, and dorm food. I didn't have a coool stereo, an Ipod, computer in my room, a car, a nice apartment, I had NOTHING. I worked for everything I own as did my two brothers. Our father instilled in us a work ethic that if you want something in life you EARN it not have it handed to you.

I believe in welfare for the truly needy. We do need a social safety net, but forcing the tax payers to pay for the mistakes of your friends or the young woman that has 7 kids out of wedlock by choice is NOT my definition of welfare and welfare is BEST propvided by the private sector and it's more efficient.

I believe in freedom and personal choice and the private sector helping (by the way this year will set a record of private sector donations to the tune of 268 BILLION dollars in charitable gift giving) you believe and support the concept of enabling the Federal Government to seize the assets of others, at a degree and percentage of their income that YOU feel is fair (most likely the more they make the more you take), and for some punitive measure to punish them for being "filthy rich" and "greedy", to fund a host of social issues that you feel should be funded despite the choices the people made in life that got them where they are today.

If you decide to get a girl pregnant, drop out of school, smoke 3 packs a day, drink like Ted Kennedy, and then 15 years from now need food stamps, and dozens of medications then I feel I have the right to look you right in the eye and say Dude you made your life choices and it's YOUR responsibility to deal with them and it's NOT your right to use the Federal governments threat of prison to confiscate a portion of my wealth to pay for your mistakes.

That's it in a nut shell. You do NOT believe in any sort of personal responsibility or someone bearing the burden financially or otherwise of their poor decisions, but want to be able to force me and others to bail them out time and time and time again.

My way is freedom your way is not!

 

[cboogsrun]

I have 3 children, I am unable to perform miracles nor do I walk on water,and I have made many mistakes the "difference" is I don't expect a tax payer somewhere in America to pay for my mistakes. As to compassion. I am involved in more charitable work that probably 99% of the people on this forum. I am one of the major fund raisers for Benefit4kids an alternative to Make-A-Wish. With a son who has CP, I am one of the board members of the local CP chapter, and I am involved in numerous church charities and Farmers and Hunters Feeding the Hungry.

The distinction is my goal is to let private sector from their hearts do it instead of having laws made to steal tax payers income which is poorly spent and often mismanaged. Case in point so far the government has found 1.4 BILLION dollars worth of fraud committed by Katrina victims. That's YOUR money and mine wasted by a bloated bueracracy and being fleeced by the "victims"!



Yes there have been tax breaks and they have STIMULATED the economy leading to record home sales and the creation of millions of new jobs. That is a good thing and I;m glad you recognize it, BUT people still pay taxes and thus assets are being seized. Every paycheck you get your assets, my assets, and any person in this Nation with a job that involves a paycheck is having a significant portion of the assets i.e income seized. I paid over $370,000 in state and Federal taxes last year. Money that was SEIZED from me by the Federal government at risk of imprisonment if I did not pay!




Again you are all over the board and unable to concentrate on one cogent point. What does having children have to do with North Korea and ICBM's....no wait it has everything to do with children as I don't want a bomb to land near their school one day and incincerate them so I feel we need to STOP NK from their goals of nuclear missles.



Served in the Air Force and I am proud of that fact.




Well that's a new lane as that's the first time you mentioned it even though this thread has NOTHING to do with Iraq, but with KOREA. So I guess this means you admit defeat on the issue of taxes and tax breaks and funding education and so on???




I agree minorities should NOT be given tax breaks and you said she was "ripped off" and "a minority" which again has nothing to do with your newly announced position about the NAACP, UNCF, or the non existant UCCF




Now you are putting words in my mouth. First off since I did it the hard way then ANYONE can, but you don't want people to do it the hard way. You want myslef and others to be forced to shoulder the cost, even while admitting people are abusing the programs.

My whole point in telling you my story is your position that the Federal government is the answer is Bull Shit. I and my two brothers PROVE that 3 poor kids can bust their asses, work shitty jobs, study hard and make a life in this world with "MINIMAL" assistance from the Federal government.

My one brother is a journalist, the other is in LE at a top level, and I have a medical financial legal company. We gained our life goals despite our adversities. And it did suck and was tough. I lived on peanuts, bananas, and dorm food. I didn't have a coool stereo, an Ipod, computer in my room, a car, a nice apartment, I had NOTHING. I worked for everything I own as did my two brothers. Our father instilled in us a work ethic that if you want something in life you EARN it not have it handed to you.

I believe in welfare for the truly needy. We do need a social safety net, but forcing the tax payers to pay for the mistakes of your friends or the young woman that has 7 kids out of wedlock by choice is NOT my definition of welfare and welfare is BEST propvided by the private sector and it's more efficient.

I believe in freedom and personal choice and the private sector helping (by the way this year will set a record of private sector donations to the tune of 268 BILLION dollars in charitable gift giving) you believe and support the concept of enabling the Federal Government to seize the assets of others, at a degree and percentage of their income that YOU feel is fair (most likely the more they make the more you take), and for some punitive measure to punish them for being "filthy rich" and "greedy", to fund a host of social issues that you feel should be funded despite the choices the people made in life that got them where they are today.

If you decide to get a girl pregnant, drop out of school, smoke 3 packs a day, drink like Ted Kennedy, and then 15 years from now need food stamps, and dozens of medications then I feel I have the right to look you right in the eye and say Dude you made your life choices and it's YOUR responsibility to deal with them and it's NOT your right to use the Federal governments threat of prison to confiscate a portion of my wealth to pay for your mistakes.

That's it in a nut shell. You do NOT believe in any sort of personal responsibility or someone bearing the burden financially or otherwise of their poor decisions, but want to be able to force me and others to bail them out time and time and time again.

My way is freedom your way is not!

Here is what I'm saying in full. Iraq has been a waste of money and has created more burden on the US. I.E. Insuregents, more terrorist threats, and families have lost loved ones. Just for the purpose of the US policing the world. I feel this money could be used to do better things. One example I gave was helping young adults go to college. having 7 kids or not. Another example could be to use the money to come up with better social security, instead of robbing from it. I think you have misconstrued a lot of what I've said and put a nice little twist on it. The only thing we don't agree on is where misappropriated funds should be used at. I personally think NK is far more of a threat than Iraq ever could have been. I also think our leaders really need to do their homework and go into this thing with the UN.

 

[Spartacus]

There won't be any war anytime soon. THey have been in a standoff with the US and S. Korea for about 50 years.

We do have a country to tell other countries how to live within reason. We can implement sanctions and refuse to trade with them as well as use economic pressure until their domestic situation improves. As it stands N. Korea is the most human rights and civil rights unfriendly country on earth. There is nothing wrong with using our power to try to nudge them into more liberal policies, unless doing so could lead to military conflict. Human rights are not something that a stalinist state gets to define. The US, the EU and Japan all criticize N Korea with good reason for its treatment of its own citizens.

We shouldn't worry just about the USA for a variety of reasons. For one most people who vote & pay taxes disagree with that idea and most people support humanitarian aid and encouraging liberal domestic policies in foreign countries. Another is that our national security is not based on domestic issues, but global issues. If we have a shitty reputation and the world is going to hell, that makes our domestic nation less safe. The entire concept of communism was born out of massive discontentment and anger. So was nazism. So is islamic terrorism. Reasonably content people with good jobs, human rights and a functioning state generally don't blow themselves up or fight to create dictatorial countries that the US then has to go to war against. The countries that are the biggest threats to the US are also the most backwards basket cases (N. Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya). There is something called the democratic peace theory that finds liberal, representative governments almost never declare war on each other. I made a post not long ago pointing out how less than a few billion dollars in humanitarian aid managed to turn about 200 million people in Indonesia & Pakistan against Bin Ladin and towards the US.

As for why they are doing this, I have read alot on N. Korea and they approach international diplomacy with the mentality of a criminal stuck in a motel with a bunch of hostages. They know they have no real cards or authority other than their ability to cause millions of deaths and trillions of dollars in economic damage the same way a hostage taker knows he has nothing other than his ability to kill civilians and the desire of others not to have that happen. So their military is mostly designed to destroy civilian lives and infrastructure, not win a war. They have alot of military weapons pointed at civilian building in S Korea, missiles that can reach cities in Japan and now ICBMs that can reach western US. Their goal with this test is to just let the US know that if war breaks out they can kill a few million of our civilians and cause several trillion in damage. The best comparison is to think of it as a hostage taker shooting someone in the leg to let the cops know they mean business and can and will hurt people. The N. Koreans have no money, no economy, no real allies and a military of starving soldiers armed with AK47s. All they have is their ability to kill civilians and they know it.

The problem is that the N. Korean government knows this too and knows they are untouchable because of it. No treaty can really hold that depends on the N. Korean government to hold up its end as they know there isn't much the outside world can or will do about it because of this leverage they have.

a shame slightly beyond 3 paragraphs is going to need cliff's notes

 

[gotmilk]

a shame slightly beyond 3 paragraphs is going to need cliff's notes

The Chinese have long wanted to use North Korea as their patsy. I personally do not want to be struck with anything that sounds like longdong

 

[Spartacus]

Yup. I knew a guy from Egypt who said that what also helped lower support for terrorism was when they were elected democratically. In governments like Kuwait & Jordan the radical terrorist fringe would be elected, prove themselves inept, and be voted out. This also cut support for terrorism.

This is a psychological war, not a military war like WW2 or any of the other wars. A few billion in strategic humanitarian aid or a few policies that show muslims what terrorists truly stand for can do alot to change support for terrorism.

such as a tsunami
what was needed in the immediate aftermath was provided by the USN
hospital ships and helos etc. etc.
a USN task force is self-supporting
but not always

 

[Spartacus]

that's USN
not UN

 

[Spartacus]

The Chinese have long wanted to use North Korea as their patsy. I personally do not want to be struck with anything that sounds like longdong

I've already tossed the wall street journal editorial
salient point was that korea is supplying Iran with "podongII" missiles
it's about their only source of positive foreign exchange

 

[Spartacus]

I think the figure was in the neighborhood of 800 missiles give or take
that north korea has supplied Iran
"axis of evil"
Clinton was too busy defending a BJ to coin the term

 

[redguru]

Here is what I'm saying in full. Iraq has been a waste of money and has created more burden on the US. I.E. Insuregents, more terrorist threats, and families have lost loved ones. Just for the purpose of the US policing the world. I feel this money could be used to do better things. One example I gave was helping young adults go to college. having 7 kids or not. Another example could be to use the money to come up with better social security, instead of robbing from it. I think you have misconstrued a lot of what I've said and put a nice little twist on it. The only thing we don't agree on is where misappropriated funds should be used at. I personally think NK is far more of a threat than Iraq ever could have been. I also think our leaders really need to do their homework and go into this thing with the UN.

How about no social security? Save your own damn money.

 

[Spartacus]

the whole point of "Iraq"
was Iran
has been all along

 

[redguru]

the whole point of "Iraq"
was Iran
has been all along

I agree. Iraq and Afghanistan have Iran isolated.

 

[Lao Tzu]

How about no social security? Save your own damn money.

Good luck getting that law passed.

 

[BigRupe]

Here is what I'm saying in full. Iraq has been a waste of money and has created more burden on the US. I.E. Insuregents, more terrorist threats, and families have lost loved ones. Just for the purpose of the US policing the world. I feel this money could be used to do better things. One example I gave was helping young adults go to college. having 7 kids or not. Another example could be to use the money to come up with better social security, instead of robbing from it. I think you have misconstrued a lot of what I've said and put a nice little twist on it. The only thing we don't agree on is where misappropriated funds should be used at. I personally think NK is far more of a threat than Iraq ever could have been. I also think our leaders really need to do their homework and go into this thing with the UN.

What are your expert qualifications to make a sweeping statement that Iraq is a waste of money? What top secret briefings have you attended that gives you carte blanche to denounce the effort as a waste?

Neither you nor I from where we sit can make such an indictment. You may have an OPINION but that's the extent of it.

As to creating insurgents the same thing happened in WWII for nearly 2 years AFTER the war we had "insurgents" in Germany. As to having "more terrorist threats". I am not concerned with taped videos spouting off Islamofacism I am concerned with the actual carrying out of these plots and THIS war has severely hindered Al Queda and that's a win for the US.

In our Constitution it's required for the Federal government to spend money for the common defense...says nothing about helping you kids go to collge

As to "policing the world" it is our responsibility. I don't see any good coming from isolationism or washing our hands of the world's problems.

For social security. It's the biggest Ponzi scheme ever devised and was doomed to failure the day it started. This is a whole other thread, but if you want to "fix" Social Security which is a scam, then let people invest their OWN money instead of the Federal Government taking nealry 15% of a person's check and blowing it.

Social Security is welfare and is NOT secure.

 

[bran987]

where kimjong?

 

[cboogsrun]

What are your expert qualifications to make a sweeping statement that Iraq is a waste of money? What top secret briefings have you attended that gives you carte blanche to denounce the effort as a waste?

Neither you nor I from where we sit can make such an indictment. You may have an OPINION but that's the extent of it.

As to creating insurgents the same thing happened in WWII for nearly 2 years AFTER the war we had "insurgents" in Germany. As to having "more terrorist threats". I am not concerned with taped videos spouting off Islamofacism I am concerned with the actual carrying out of these plots and THIS war has severely hindered Al Queda and that's a win for the US.

In our Constitution it's required for the Federal government to spend money for the common defense...says nothing about helping you kids go to collge

As to "policing the world" it is our responsibility. I don't see any good coming from isolationism or washing our hands of the world's problems.

For social security. It's the biggest Ponzi scheme ever devised and was doomed to failure the day it started. This is a whole other thread, but if you want to "fix" Social Security which is a scam, then let people invest their OWN money instead of the Federal Government taking nealry 15% of a person's check and blowing it.

Social Security is welfare and is NOT secure.

I actually have a secret security clearance. Now as far as my expertise on the Iraq war, let me say first and foremost, I am a registered voter and I pay a chunk of change in taxes. So as far as my expertise, I don't need any. Policing the world wasn't mentioned when I was sworn in. Its a waste of money if you look at the povershed people in the US. I find it strange how you'd rather spend money helping out other countries people, but not your own country. you seem to like to look at the worst case scenerios and base your argument on them. Not everyone is lazy and worthless. There are some very hard working people who need a hand up to get ahead. Others who are looking for the free ride shouldn't get any assistance until they prove they are trying to better themselves. Again you don't understand, I used college as an example. Another example would be research cures for diseases. Another example to use tax money for instead of Iraq would be socialized health care. Just a thought not necessarily my belief. As for social security, it started off great until the gov. started to borrow money from it and wasn't a priority. Now with the baby boomers it seems more of a priority. I would agree with you on people's right to choose their own retirement or investments. However, I just don't think it will happen any time soon. they will dump more money into social security trying to save it before they abandon their cheap money to borrow from. As far as helping my kid go to college, not worried. The gov won't have to give her a dime. I make a comfortable living. I also have 14 more years to continue putting money into bonds and cd's for her. the al queda statement is very speculatory, no one knows for sure how involved Iraq was. What is known is the Taliban were.

 

[Spartacus]

I agree. Iraq and Afghanistan have Iran isolated.

the Iranian people are progressive
now we have soldiers and our tech military on their doorstep