North Korea threatening US w/ nuclear missile

[cboogsrun]

REALITY CHECK time; with ICBM's capable of hitting the US mainland it NOW becomes our backyard.

As to your straw man arguement about kids and college....

No kid in America is denied college because of his financial status. If there's a will there's a way. My family was lower middle class we had no money, I received student loans, a Pell grant for ONE freaking year, and I BUSTED my ass and worked a shitty job on the campus for 2 and a half years in the plumbing department unclogging toilets, replacing urinals, some nasty smelly jobs so don't be giving me some shit about not being able to go to college.

All 3 of us went to college and we did it on sweat equity and studying hard.

You should be proud of your accomplishment, however not everyone is in your situation. I know people who live off their student loans, buy nice cars with them. Then when they finish school and can't find a job they are screwed. The price of education has become outrageous due to student loans. I think you pay 3% interest or something like that. So its cheap money and lenders will lend it fairly easily. This already puts someone upside down when they go out to the job market. Some people have children and their time for school, work, kids, keeping house is almost impossible. I know single parents due fairly well on financial aid. My gf didn't do so hot. I think she got taken to the cleaners and she's a minority. In a year and a half she'll be 40 grand deep. In which 15 grand she had to start paying on 6 months ago, even though she is still in school.

 

[BigRupe]

Out of curiosity was your job a work study grant where you had to work for the university or a charity?

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not as a "plumbing" job would not be considered a work study grant by anyone.

I worked for the college's maintenance department I did lots of things but mostly plumbing and I knew NOTHING about it. My major was premed.

My income went directly to the school and I could petition to have a small sum given to me every two weeks, but basically my whole check went to my tuition and room and board.

I was dirt poor for almost 4 years living in a small dorm room eating cafeteria food and studying my ass off so I don't buy into the nonsense about government spending someone else's money to pay some kids way through school.

I received a total of $2500 in grants in 4 years and I pay more than that back each week in taxes as owner of my own company.LOL

 

[mkazzbmf]

If the US was to attack N. Korea.....it would give those assholes an excuse to use the missles they have...then what???? RIGHT we ALL die. The US would have attacked them already if that threat wasnt there. What we need is to infiltrate that country with spies and kill the pres

 

[BigRupe]

You should be proud of your accomplishment, however not everyone is in your situation. I know people who live off their student loans, buy nice cars with them. Then when they finish school and can't find a job they are screwed. .

Well then that's their CHOICE, they made that poor decision and I don't see how more tax dollars thrown at it will help nor does it have anything to do with North Korea.

The price of education has become outrageous due to student loans. I think you pay 3% interest or something like that. So its cheap money and lenders will lend it fairly easily. This already puts someone upside down when they go out to the job market..

I went to a private university and it was expensive and back then the interest rates were around 11%! Again I know some students who worked 2 jobs to put themselves through school.

Some people have children and their time for school, work, kids, keeping house is almost impossible. I know single parents due fairly well on financial aid. .

Education is a priviledge as is college. It is not a right and NO WHERE in the Constitution does it grant the right to our government to seize the assets of one citizen to pay for the education of another citizen's children because he or she does not want to work, borrow or earn the money to pay for it themselves. Nor are we guaranteed that our struggles to become better people and our desire to become better educated would be easy and cost us nothing.

I have no clue what your point is about cleaning the house in the context of our discussion. You keep throwing out irrelevant points. Keeping the house clean has nothing to do with a person paying their own way through school which has nothing to do with Bush spending 87 Billion on the Iraq war which has nothing to do with the original topic which was North Korea and their ability to hit the continental us with a nuclear weapon.

Please pick a lane and try to stay in it.

My gf didn't do so hot. I think she got taken to the cleaners and she's a minority. In a year and a half she'll be 40 grand deep. In which 15 grand she had to start paying on 6 months ago, even though she is still in school.

Why throw in the part "and she's a minority"? What does that have to do with anything? For every loan you take out, for every school expense you subject yourself to as some point in the process you MUST make a willful decision to shoulder that burden, sign that loan document and so on.

I have no sympathy for someone who makes a poor decision and then expects someone else's tax dollars to bail them out of it.

 

[Lao Tzu]

nevermind

 

[cboogsrun]

Well then that's their CHOICE, they made that poor decision and I don't see how more tax dollars thrown at it will help nor does it have anything to do with North Korea.

I was referring to the 87 billion dollars Bush went to congress for. So your right it doesn't have anything to do with Korea. I personally think Korea needs much more attention then Iraq. I also think their needs to be more thought put into this altercation than was the case with Iraq. I would also think by your post your either Christ and have never made a mistake or don't have children. Compassion isn't a weakness its a comodity.


I went to a private university and it was expensive and back then the interest rates were around 11%! Again I know some students who worked 2 jobs to put themselves through school.





Education is a priviledge as is college. It is not a right and NO WHERE in the Constitution does it grant the right to our government to seize the assets of one citizen to pay for the education of another citizen's children because he or she does not want to work, borrow or earn the money to pay for it themselves. Nor are we guaranteed that our struggles to become better people and our desire to become better educated would be easy and cost us nothing.

BOOGS: I believe there have been an assload of tax breaks, so noones assets are being seized. I think the budget needs to be handled better and priorities need to be redefined.

I have no clue what your point is about cleaning the house in the context of our discussion. You keep throwing out irrelevant points. Keeping the house clean has nothing to do with a person paying their own way through school which has nothing to do with Bush spending 87 Billion on the Iraq war which has nothing to do with the original topic which was North Korea and their ability to hit the continental us with a nuclear weapon.

BOOGS: Again, I would think you don't have kids. The conversation has shifted from NKorea to Iraq because we are currently in conflict with Iraq and have a substantial amount of troops there. Not to mention Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afgan. It is a legitimate point that we are spread thin. I would wonder if a draft card would change your views.

BOOGS: There are about a million different variables and anyone can make a good argument for their point of view, and I respect every knowledgeable view. I happen to have been in the Army and know that troops don't get taken care of. Soldiers are just a number in the governments computer system. I have 4 very close friends in Iraq and Afgan right now. Not to mention a personal friend of mine that was killed in combat. James C. Kearney III.

Please pick a lane and try to stay in it.

BOOGS: I think I'll stay in the lane that is for the "felt dooped by Iraq and am very suspicious of our leadership" lane.





Why throw in the part "and she's a minority"? What does that have to do with anything? For every loan you take out, for every school expense you subject yourself to as some point in the process you MUST make a willful decision to shoulder that burden, sign that loan document and so on.

BOOGS: Minorities get huge breaks on all sorts of things. Lets say for example if you are a minority employer you can get the gov. to pay for a portion of your equipment, bid on certain jobs that others can't, ect.... When was the last time you heard of the United Caucasion College Fund? She's black, its relevant.


I have no sympathy for someone who makes a poor decision and then expects someone else's tax dollars to bail them out of it.

BOOGS: So you don't believe in welfare at all then? Up until this comment you have made a very good presentation of yourself. It sounds like you don't think anyone deserves a hand up, since you had to do it the hard way. Very selfish in my opinion and spiteful.

 

[BigRupe]

I was referring to the 87 billion dollars Bush went to congress for. So your right it doesn't have anything to do with Korea. I personally think Korea needs much more attention then Iraq. I also think their needs to be more thought put into this altercation than was the case with Iraq. I would also think by your post your either Christ and have never made a mistake or don't have children. Compassion isn't a weakness its a comodity..

I have 3 children, I am unable to perform miracles nor do I walk on water,and I have made many mistakes the "difference" is I don't expect a tax payer somewhere in America to pay for my mistakes. As to compassion. I am involved in more charitable work that probably 99% of the people on this forum. I am one of the major fund raisers for Benefit4kids an alternative to Make-A-Wish. With a son who has CP, I am one of the board members of the local CP chapter, and I am involved in numerous church charities and Farmers and Hunters Feeding the Hungry.

The distinction is my goal is to let private sector from their hearts do it instead of having laws made to steal tax payers income which is poorly spent and often mismanaged. Case in point so far the government has found 1.4 BILLION dollars worth of fraud committed by Katrina victims. That's YOUR money and mine wasted by a bloated bueracracy and being fleeced by the "victims"!

BOOGS: I believe there have been an assload of tax breaks, so noones assets are being seized. I think the budget needs to be handled better and priorities need to be redefined..

Yes there have been tax breaks and they have STIMULATED the economy leading to record home sales and the creation of millions of new jobs. That is a good thing and I;m glad you recognize it, BUT people still pay taxes and thus assets are being seized. Every paycheck you get your assets, my assets, and any person in this Nation with a job that involves a paycheck is having a significant portion of the assets i.e income seized. I paid over $370,000 in state and Federal taxes last year. Money that was SEIZED from me by the Federal government at risk of imprisonment if I did not pay!

BOOGS: Again, I would think you don't have kids. The conversation has shifted from NKorea to Iraq because we are currently in conflict with Iraq and have a substantial amount of troops there. Not to mention Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afgan. It is a legitimate point that we are spread thin. I would wonder if a draft card would change your views..

Again you are all over the board and unable to concentrate on one cogent point. What does having children have to do with North Korea and ICBM's....no wait it has everything to do with children as I don't want a bomb to land near their school one day and incincerate them so I feel we need to STOP NK from their goals of nuclear missles.

BOOGS: There are about a million different variables and anyone can make a good argument for their point of view, and I respect every knowledgeable view. I happen to have been in the Army and know that troops don't get taken care of. Soldiers are just a number in the governments computer system. I have 4 very close friends in Iraq and Afgan right now. Not to mention a personal friend of mine that was killed in combat. James C. Kearney III..

Served in the Air Force and I am proud of that fact.

BOOGS: I think I'll stay in the lane that is for the "felt dooped by Iraq and am very suspicious of our leadership" lane..

Well that's a new lane as that's the first time you mentioned it even though this thread has NOTHING to do with Iraq, but with KOREA. So I guess this means you admit defeat on the issue of taxes and tax breaks and funding education and so on???

BOOGS: Minorities get huge breaks on all sorts of things. Lets say for example if you are a minority employer you can get the gov. to pay for a portion of your equipment, bid on certain jobs that others can't, ect.... When was the last time you heard of the United Caucasion College Fund? She's black, its relevant..

I agree minorities should NOT be given tax breaks and you said she was "ripped off" and "a minority" which again has nothing to do with your newly announced position about the NAACP, UNCF, or the non existant UCCF

BOOGS: So you don't believe in welfare at all then? Up until this comment you have made a very good presentation of yourself. It sounds like you don't think anyone deserves a hand up, since you had to do it the hard way. Very selfish in my opinion and spitef.

Now you are putting words in my mouth. First off since I did it the hard way then ANYONE can, but you don't want people to do it the hard way. You want myslef and others to be forced to shoulder the cost, even while admitting people are abusing the programs.

My whole point in telling you my story is your position that the Federal government is the answer is Bull Shit. I and my two brothers PROVE that 3 poor kids can bust their asses, work shitty jobs, study hard and make a life in this world with "MINIMAL" assistance from the Federal government.

My one brother is a journalist, the other is in LE at a top level, and I have a medical financial legal company. We gained our life goals despite our adversities. And it did suck and was tough. I lived on peanuts, bananas, and dorm food. I didn't have a coool stereo, an Ipod, computer in my room, a car, a nice apartment, I had NOTHING. I worked for everything I own as did my two brothers. Our father instilled in us a work ethic that if you want something in life you EARN it not have it handed to you.

I believe in welfare for the truly needy. We do need a social safety net, but forcing the tax payers to pay for the mistakes of your friends or the young woman that has 7 kids out of wedlock by choice is NOT my definition of welfare and welfare is BEST propvided by the private sector and it's more efficient.

I believe in freedom and personal choice and the private sector helping (by the way this year will set a record of private sector donations to the tune of 268 BILLION dollars in charitable gift giving) you believe and support the concept of enabling the Federal Government to seize the assets of others, at a degree and percentage of their income that YOU feel is fair (most likely the more they make the more you take), and for some punitive measure to punish them for being "filthy rich" and "greedy", to fund a host of social issues that you feel should be funded despite the choices the people made in life that got them where they are today.

If you decide to get a girl pregnant, drop out of school, smoke 3 packs a day, drink like Ted Kennedy, and then 15 years from now need food stamps, and dozens of medications then I feel I have the right to look you right in the eye and say Dude you made your life choices and it's YOUR responsibility to deal with them and it's NOT your right to use the Federal governments threat of prison to confiscate a portion of my wealth to pay for your mistakes.

That's it in a nut shell. You do NOT believe in any sort of personal responsibility or someone bearing the burden financially or otherwise of their poor decisions, but want to be able to force me and others to bail them out time and time and time again.

My way is freedom your way is not!

 

[cboogsrun]

I have 3 children, I am unable to perform miracles nor do I walk on water,and I have made many mistakes the "difference" is I don't expect a tax payer somewhere in America to pay for my mistakes. As to compassion. I am involved in more charitable work that probably 99% of the people on this forum. I am one of the major fund raisers for Benefit4kids an alternative to Make-A-Wish. With a son who has CP, I am one of the board members of the local CP chapter, and I am involved in numerous church charities and Farmers and Hunters Feeding the Hungry.

The distinction is my goal is to let private sector from their hearts do it instead of having laws made to steal tax payers income which is poorly spent and often mismanaged. Case in point so far the government has found 1.4 BILLION dollars worth of fraud committed by Katrina victims. That's YOUR money and mine wasted by a bloated bueracracy and being fleeced by the "victims"!



Yes there have been tax breaks and they have STIMULATED the economy leading to record home sales and the creation of millions of new jobs. That is a good thing and I;m glad you recognize it, BUT people still pay taxes and thus assets are being seized. Every paycheck you get your assets, my assets, and any person in this Nation with a job that involves a paycheck is having a significant portion of the assets i.e income seized. I paid over $370,000 in state and Federal taxes last year. Money that was SEIZED from me by the Federal government at risk of imprisonment if I did not pay!




Again you are all over the board and unable to concentrate on one cogent point. What does having children have to do with North Korea and ICBM's....no wait it has everything to do with children as I don't want a bomb to land near their school one day and incincerate them so I feel we need to STOP NK from their goals of nuclear missles.



Served in the Air Force and I am proud of that fact.




Well that's a new lane as that's the first time you mentioned it even though this thread has NOTHING to do with Iraq, but with KOREA. So I guess this means you admit defeat on the issue of taxes and tax breaks and funding education and so on???




I agree minorities should NOT be given tax breaks and you said she was "ripped off" and "a minority" which again has nothing to do with your newly announced position about the NAACP, UNCF, or the non existant UCCF




Now you are putting words in my mouth. First off since I did it the hard way then ANYONE can, but you don't want people to do it the hard way. You want myslef and others to be forced to shoulder the cost, even while admitting people are abusing the programs.

My whole point in telling you my story is your position that the Federal government is the answer is Bull Shit. I and my two brothers PROVE that 3 poor kids can bust their asses, work shitty jobs, study hard and make a life in this world with "MINIMAL" assistance from the Federal government.

My one brother is a journalist, the other is in LE at a top level, and I have a medical financial legal company. We gained our life goals despite our adversities. And it did suck and was tough. I lived on peanuts, bananas, and dorm food. I didn't have a coool stereo, an Ipod, computer in my room, a car, a nice apartment, I had NOTHING. I worked for everything I own as did my two brothers. Our father instilled in us a work ethic that if you want something in life you EARN it not have it handed to you.

I believe in welfare for the truly needy. We do need a social safety net, but forcing the tax payers to pay for the mistakes of your friends or the young woman that has 7 kids out of wedlock by choice is NOT my definition of welfare and welfare is BEST propvided by the private sector and it's more efficient.

I believe in freedom and personal choice and the private sector helping (by the way this year will set a record of private sector donations to the tune of 268 BILLION dollars in charitable gift giving) you believe and support the concept of enabling the Federal Government to seize the assets of others, at a degree and percentage of their income that YOU feel is fair (most likely the more they make the more you take), and for some punitive measure to punish them for being "filthy rich" and "greedy", to fund a host of social issues that you feel should be funded despite the choices the people made in life that got them where they are today.

If you decide to get a girl pregnant, drop out of school, smoke 3 packs a day, drink like Ted Kennedy, and then 15 years from now need food stamps, and dozens of medications then I feel I have the right to look you right in the eye and say Dude you made your life choices and it's YOUR responsibility to deal with them and it's NOT your right to use the Federal governments threat of prison to confiscate a portion of my wealth to pay for your mistakes.

That's it in a nut shell. You do NOT believe in any sort of personal responsibility or someone bearing the burden financially or otherwise of their poor decisions, but want to be able to force me and others to bail them out time and time and time again.

My way is freedom your way is not!

Here is what I'm saying in full. Iraq has been a waste of money and has created more burden on the US. I.E. Insuregents, more terrorist threats, and families have lost loved ones. Just for the purpose of the US policing the world. I feel this money could be used to do better things. One example I gave was helping young adults go to college. having 7 kids or not. Another example could be to use the money to come up with better social security, instead of robbing from it. I think you have misconstrued a lot of what I've said and put a nice little twist on it. The only thing we don't agree on is where misappropriated funds should be used at. I personally think NK is far more of a threat than Iraq ever could have been. I also think our leaders really need to do their homework and go into this thing with the UN.

 

[Spartacus]

There won't be any war anytime soon. THey have been in a standoff with the US and S. Korea for about 50 years.

We do have a country to tell other countries how to live within reason. We can implement sanctions and refuse to trade with them as well as use economic pressure until their domestic situation improves. As it stands N. Korea is the most human rights and civil rights unfriendly country on earth. There is nothing wrong with using our power to try to nudge them into more liberal policies, unless doing so could lead to military conflict. Human rights are not something that a stalinist state gets to define. The US, the EU and Japan all criticize N Korea with good reason for its treatment of its own citizens.

We shouldn't worry just about the USA for a variety of reasons. For one most people who vote & pay taxes disagree with that idea and most people support humanitarian aid and encouraging liberal domestic policies in foreign countries. Another is that our national security is not based on domestic issues, but global issues. If we have a shitty reputation and the world is going to hell, that makes our domestic nation less safe. The entire concept of communism was born out of massive discontentment and anger. So was nazism. So is islamic terrorism. Reasonably content people with good jobs, human rights and a functioning state generally don't blow themselves up or fight to create dictatorial countries that the US then has to go to war against. The countries that are the biggest threats to the US are also the most backwards basket cases (N. Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya). There is something called the democratic peace theory that finds liberal, representative governments almost never declare war on each other. I made a post not long ago pointing out how less than a few billion dollars in humanitarian aid managed to turn about 200 million people in Indonesia & Pakistan against Bin Ladin and towards the US.

As for why they are doing this, I have read alot on N. Korea and they approach international diplomacy with the mentality of a criminal stuck in a motel with a bunch of hostages. They know they have no real cards or authority other than their ability to cause millions of deaths and trillions of dollars in economic damage the same way a hostage taker knows he has nothing other than his ability to kill civilians and the desire of others not to have that happen. So their military is mostly designed to destroy civilian lives and infrastructure, not win a war. They have alot of military weapons pointed at civilian building in S Korea, missiles that can reach cities in Japan and now ICBMs that can reach western US. Their goal with this test is to just let the US know that if war breaks out they can kill a few million of our civilians and cause several trillion in damage. The best comparison is to think of it as a hostage taker shooting someone in the leg to let the cops know they mean business and can and will hurt people. The N. Koreans have no money, no economy, no real allies and a military of starving soldiers armed with AK47s. All they have is their ability to kill civilians and they know it.

The problem is that the N. Korean government knows this too and knows they are untouchable because of it. No treaty can really hold that depends on the N. Korean government to hold up its end as they know there isn't much the outside world can or will do about it because of this leverage they have.

a shame slightly beyond 3 paragraphs is going to need cliff's notes

 

[gotmilk]

a shame slightly beyond 3 paragraphs is going to need cliff's notes

The Chinese have long wanted to use North Korea as their patsy. I personally do not want to be struck with anything that sounds like longdong