Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I've only been lifting since February of this year, and just within the last month or so I've really been working on building my strength. I've really had a couple of boosts in some areas, but other areas I feel like I still have a long ways to go. Basically what I've been doing is switching my rep scheme up each week. One week I might do four sets of four then the next six sets of six this week I did five sets of three. Anyway one of my questions is how many different exercises with low reps should I do for a body part? Like right now I might do three compound exercises for my shoulders. Is this too much or not enough or about right? I've noticed on a lot of strength building routines on the web and in magazines they may only do flat bench for a chest activity. Also should I stay away from exercises like lateral raises, chest flys, leg extensions? Thanks for the help guys.
newbie that needs help please
- Thread starter cbritton
- Start date
it takes years to figure out what works for you alone, but there are guidelines that do apply to almost everyone.
as far as your rep scheme goes, read the following many times and become familiar with what volume you need in your training to advance
link1
link2
link3
these 3 will get you started on the path you want
i personally haven't did a chest fly in about 5 yrs, and leg ext maybe a couple of sets in the past year. it will depend on where your priorities lie and what you feel benefits you. most people's quadriceps are far more developed than their hamstrings but often fail to properly work their hams at all
please don't be afraid to ask questions, we need more discussion on this forum
as far as your rep scheme goes, read the following many times and become familiar with what volume you need in your training to advance
link1
link2
link3
these 3 will get you started on the path you want
i personally haven't did a chest fly in about 5 yrs, and leg ext maybe a couple of sets in the past year. it will depend on where your priorities lie and what you feel benefits you. most people's quadriceps are far more developed than their hamstrings but often fail to properly work their hams at all
please don't be afraid to ask questions, we need more discussion on this forum
Phreezer_Machine
New member
cbritton said:
Do you want to become a powerlifter, or do you just want to be a stronger body builder?
lol umm i dunno i am kinda lost here. i am not trying to compete or anything just looking to build some strength. i wanna be stronger but still be defined. sorry for being a little lost. i just thought powerlifting was supposed to be a great way to build up strength.Phreezer_Machine said:
Phreezer_Machine
New member
Lol.. Let's see, the difference between Body Builders and Powerlifters... I know this isn’t exactly what most body builders want to hear, but hey; I'm not a body builder!
We who are powerlifters. We have walked away from the homo erotic oiled up world of body building where men rub each other down with Baby Oil and stand around wearing nothing but their underwear We go to all you can eat buffets and we hate light beer. We’ve traded in spandex for smelling salts. We’ve thrown our lifting gloves in the trash and purchased 12-18” lifting Straps! We don’t drink spring water, and we don’t eat tofu. We drink Mountain dew because it’s got carbs (and we could care less about the calories), and instead of chewing bubble gum we chew Copenhagen (and yes, we spit on the floor). We have bellies, and we like them because we use them to bench off of, and rest on when we are squating. We are all about the bigger poundage instead of the bigger "pump". A six pack to us is something that we drink after a meet. Most of us don't worry about hair gel because we shave our heads anyway.
Ok, all kidding aside, A body builder is Mostly about looking good first and being strong second. Where a Powerlifter is about being strong first and looking second. We powerlifters tend to be a lot bigger than BB's, but we tend to carry around a larger amount of BF than BB's do.
Google a pic of Ryan Kennelly, that will show you what a Powerlifter looks like. Then Google a pic of Kevin Levrone. That will show what a body builder looks like.
Both of those guys are at the top of their respective sports..
We who are powerlifters. We have walked away from the homo erotic oiled up world of body building where men rub each other down with Baby Oil and stand around wearing nothing but their underwear We go to all you can eat buffets and we hate light beer. We’ve traded in spandex for smelling salts. We’ve thrown our lifting gloves in the trash and purchased 12-18” lifting Straps! We don’t drink spring water, and we don’t eat tofu. We drink Mountain dew because it’s got carbs (and we could care less about the calories), and instead of chewing bubble gum we chew Copenhagen (and yes, we spit on the floor). We have bellies, and we like them because we use them to bench off of, and rest on when we are squating. We are all about the bigger poundage instead of the bigger "pump". A six pack to us is something that we drink after a meet. Most of us don't worry about hair gel because we shave our heads anyway.
Ok, all kidding aside, A body builder is Mostly about looking good first and being strong second. Where a Powerlifter is about being strong first and looking second. We powerlifters tend to be a lot bigger than BB's, but we tend to carry around a larger amount of BF than BB's do.Google a pic of Ryan Kennelly, that will show you what a Powerlifter looks like. Then Google a pic of Kevin Levrone. That will show what a body builder looks like.
Both of those guys are at the top of their respective sports..
Phreezer_Machine said:Lol.. Let's see, the difference between Body Builders and Powerlifters... I know this isn’t exactly what most body builders want to hear, but hey; I'm not a body builder!
We who are powerlifters. We have walked away from the homo erotic oiled up world of body building where men rub each other down with Baby Oil and stand around wearing nothing but their underwear We go to all you can eat buffets and we hate light beer. We’ve traded in spandex for smelling salts. We’ve thrown our lifting gloves in the trash and purchased 12-18” lifting Straps! We don’t drink spring water, and we don’t eat tofu. We drink Mountain dew because it’s got carbs (and we could care less about the calories), and instead of chewing bubble gum we chew Copenhagen (and yes, we spit on the floor). We have bellies, and we like them because we use them to bench off of, and rest on when we are squating. We are all about the bigger poundage instead of the bigger "pump". A six pack to us is something that we drink after a meet. Most of us don't worry about hair gel because we shave our heads anyway.
Google a pic of Ryan Kennelly, that will show you what a Powerlifter looks like. Then Google a pic of Kevin Levrone. That will show what a body builder looks like.
Both of those guys are at the top of their respective sports..
lol at the comparisons. don't a lot of bodybuilders do powerlifting routines too? like i've heard that arnold and a lot of the older bodybuilders did a lot of powerlifting too. lol i started lifting to stay in shape, and i want to stay that way. isn't it good to a little mixture of both powerlifting and bodybuilding? instead of just one compared to the other. like i've heard a lot of bodybuilders may be huge but lack a lot of strength. i want to be a descent size and look like i can bench my share of weight. anyways i am much too pale to be walking around in just my underwear. thanks for the feedback.
Phreezer_Machine
New member
cbritton said:
I don't have time this after noon, but I'll try and help you out later this evening by posting a routine for you that I think will get you results that you want.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
cbritton said:
Well since Phreezer's gonna post you up some routine's I won't start in there yet. I thought the comparisons were pretty funny, especially being a former Bodybuilder (see...really I was...LOL NPC Newsonline ). But truthfully I will say from personal experience - it is very difficult to do either one extremely well while trying to do both at the same time, does that make sense? Bodybuilding workouts truly are different as you are trying to shape and sculpt your body to "look" a certain way as I did in the photo on the link. There are many exercises performed in a BB workout so that all bodyparts are addressed - creating symmetry and balance in the structure of the person. Powerlifting workouts are generaly done to strengthen, yes - but most importantly is training to increase your "lifts". Bench, Squat, Dead. There are accessory movements in PL, but generally you are performing Bench exercises twice weekly and Squat/Back exercises twice weekly.
My nutrition has changed completely, still good but different. Oh, and so has my body. But my strength in my lifts has increased. Even though as a bodybuilder I weighed 150 at 10%BF and could squat 300lbs, I can now at 132lbs squat the same weight without knee wraps and a lift belt.
Just decide which you like better once you get more into lifting...maybe your heart will tell you - just like mine told me it was time for a change. Best of luck to you.
cool i would really appreciate that thanks!Phreezer_Machine said:
Quadsweep's Sister thanks for the advice. See I was doing more of of bodybuilding type of routine that I had got from a book. And I know a few people that told me that I was doing too much of a bodybuilding routine, and that I needed to go with heavier weights if I wanted to build strength. I don't really want to try to mix the two at once. Like I didnt know if a person could get good results by building strength first then do more of a bodybuilding type of routine. The thing that I am worried about is I know guys that have lifted for years and all they really do is heavy sets, but it's like they have no real definition in their arms or anything.Their arms are big but its just kind of a blob. Do you kinda understand what I am saying? Maybe it's just something their doing wrong. By they way you looked really ripped in that photo.
Phreezer_Machine
New member
Dual Factor Strength Training!!!!
OK, for those of you who's primary goal is just raw, gritty strength, while adding a decent amount of muscle then this is a slight variation of the DFHT-Revisited program.
Also, as with DFHT, if you can't squat AT LEAST 1.5x your bodyweight Olympic Style, butt sitting on your heels, then you need to be doing JS's 5x5 program coupled with his 8 week squatting program (they work together). Over the last couple years I have become good personal friends with JS and have had the opportunity to train with him. The 5x5 is hands down the best mass and strength builder for beginner to intermediates out there. Even most of JS's elite level athletes and many of us elite level powerlifters use the 5x5 for some time during the year to get back to building slabs of mass and give us a break from the really heavy stuff we do. It's just a good, solid, unmatched program for beginners to upper level intermediates who desperately need to pack on mass and get much stronger in the core lifts.
Now, when you get to the point when you can squat double your bodyweight raw Olympic Style ATF, then you really won't be able to handle squatting 3 times per week anymore because the overall volume and load is increased so much. So, both JS and myself advocated dropping the squatting to twice per week; one heavy and one lighter (but still really hard work). This is where DFHT comes into play.
So, to reiterate:
1) If you can't easily squat 1.5x your bodyweight Olympic style, all the way down, then you need to be doing the 5x5.
2) Once you can easily squat 1.5x your bodyweight Olympic style and your goal is primarily strength and secondary size, then you are ready for DFST.
3) However, a major issue with DFHT is loading and unloading phases. The fact is, until you become an upper level intermediate lifter, there is little need for planned loading and unloading phases. When you get to the point where you can squat 2x+ your bodyweight and bench 1.5x your bodyweight, then you might begin experimenting with loading and unloading weeks.
4) Regardless of what program you are on, (be it 5x5, DFST, or something else) you need to be eating;... ALOT. When mass is the goal, eating is as important as the training. Eat every 2-3 hours and get plenty of protein in every meal.
OK, here is the program/split:
Upper Body Workout One:
1./// Barbell Bench Press: (flat or incline, normal grip – pinkies on rings, 5x5, 5rm, 3rm, or 1rm)
2./// Board Press/ Floor Press (1-5rm usually start where you left off on bench press)
3./// Dumbell Press (flat, incline, or decline for 3x8-10 same weight)
4./// Horizontal Lat Work (Barbell JS Rows, 5x5)
5./// Shoulders/ Traps (emphasis on medial delts - Shrugs, High Pulls, Dumbell Cleans, Lateral Raises, Shoulder Horn, Face Pulls – pick 1-2 exercises for 4-6 sets total)
6./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
7./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)
Lower Body Workout One:
1./// Snatches/Overhead Squats (snatches – 1rm or 3x3 @ 75%, then overhead squat to a heavy single)
2./// Max Effort Movement: Olympic Squats, Low Box Squats, Front Squats, Deadlifts, Deadlifts off a 2-3” box, mats, or 100lb plates) pick one exercise and work up to a 1 rep max.
3./// Goodmornings (3x5 same weight or work up to 5rm)
4./// Pullthroughs (3-5 sets of 10-12, some arched back, some rounded back)
-or-
4./// Glute Ham Raises (3-5 sets of 10-12)
5./// Weighted Hyperextensions (2-3x10-12)
6./// Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)
Upper Body Workout Two:
1./// Speed Bench: Flat Bench Press, 9 sets of 3 reps w/ approx 60% of raw max, (3 sets close grip, 3 sets regular grip, 3 sets wide grip) – eccentric and concentric should be as fast as possible – push bar as hard as you can all the way to lockout as if you were doing a max weight for every attempt. – addition of accommodating resistance can be used; i.e. chains or bands added to the bar.
2./// Close Grip Bench Press (pinkies 2” inside rings– heavy work 1rm, 3rm, or 5rm)
3./// Overhead Press (Standing military press or push press 1-5rm, or 3-5x5)
4./// Dips (2 sets)
5./// Vertical Lat Work (Lat Pulldowns or Pullups – 5+ sets – if on lat pulldown use different bars and work different planes)
6./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
7./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)
Lower Body Workout Two:
1./// Cleans (1rm or 3x3 @ 75%) – drop low to catch the weight and front squat it up
2./// Olympic Back Squats (Ultra deep – ATF - 5x5 w/ same weight, or occasionally work up to a 5rm, also use accommodating resistance approximately every other week)
3./// Speed Deadlifts (conventional deadlifts for 6 singles with 60% of max deadlift. Do a single, wait about 45 seconds or a minute and then do another single for 6 singles. Concentrate on speed and form.
4./// Pullthroughs (3-5 sets of 10-12, some arched back, some rounded back)
-or-
4./// Glute Ham Raises (3-5 sets of 10-12)
5./// Weighted Hyperextensions (2-3x10-12 )
6./// Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)
OK, for those of you who's primary goal is just raw, gritty strength, while adding a decent amount of muscle then this is a slight variation of the DFHT-Revisited program.
Also, as with DFHT, if you can't squat AT LEAST 1.5x your bodyweight Olympic Style, butt sitting on your heels, then you need to be doing JS's 5x5 program coupled with his 8 week squatting program (they work together). Over the last couple years I have become good personal friends with JS and have had the opportunity to train with him. The 5x5 is hands down the best mass and strength builder for beginner to intermediates out there. Even most of JS's elite level athletes and many of us elite level powerlifters use the 5x5 for some time during the year to get back to building slabs of mass and give us a break from the really heavy stuff we do. It's just a good, solid, unmatched program for beginners to upper level intermediates who desperately need to pack on mass and get much stronger in the core lifts.
Now, when you get to the point when you can squat double your bodyweight raw Olympic Style ATF, then you really won't be able to handle squatting 3 times per week anymore because the overall volume and load is increased so much. So, both JS and myself advocated dropping the squatting to twice per week; one heavy and one lighter (but still really hard work). This is where DFHT comes into play.
So, to reiterate:
1) If you can't easily squat 1.5x your bodyweight Olympic style, all the way down, then you need to be doing the 5x5.
2) Once you can easily squat 1.5x your bodyweight Olympic style and your goal is primarily strength and secondary size, then you are ready for DFST.
3) However, a major issue with DFHT is loading and unloading phases. The fact is, until you become an upper level intermediate lifter, there is little need for planned loading and unloading phases. When you get to the point where you can squat 2x+ your bodyweight and bench 1.5x your bodyweight, then you might begin experimenting with loading and unloading weeks.
4) Regardless of what program you are on, (be it 5x5, DFST, or something else) you need to be eating;... ALOT. When mass is the goal, eating is as important as the training. Eat every 2-3 hours and get plenty of protein in every meal.
OK, here is the program/split:
Upper Body Workout One:
1./// Barbell Bench Press: (flat or incline, normal grip – pinkies on rings, 5x5, 5rm, 3rm, or 1rm)
2./// Board Press/ Floor Press (1-5rm usually start where you left off on bench press)
3./// Dumbell Press (flat, incline, or decline for 3x8-10 same weight)
4./// Horizontal Lat Work (Barbell JS Rows, 5x5)
5./// Shoulders/ Traps (emphasis on medial delts - Shrugs, High Pulls, Dumbell Cleans, Lateral Raises, Shoulder Horn, Face Pulls – pick 1-2 exercises for 4-6 sets total)
6./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
7./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)
Lower Body Workout One:
1./// Snatches/Overhead Squats (snatches – 1rm or 3x3 @ 75%, then overhead squat to a heavy single)
2./// Max Effort Movement: Olympic Squats, Low Box Squats, Front Squats, Deadlifts, Deadlifts off a 2-3” box, mats, or 100lb plates) pick one exercise and work up to a 1 rep max.
3./// Goodmornings (3x5 same weight or work up to 5rm)
4./// Pullthroughs (3-5 sets of 10-12, some arched back, some rounded back)
-or-
4./// Glute Ham Raises (3-5 sets of 10-12)
5./// Weighted Hyperextensions (2-3x10-12)
6./// Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)
Upper Body Workout Two:
1./// Speed Bench: Flat Bench Press, 9 sets of 3 reps w/ approx 60% of raw max, (3 sets close grip, 3 sets regular grip, 3 sets wide grip) – eccentric and concentric should be as fast as possible – push bar as hard as you can all the way to lockout as if you were doing a max weight for every attempt. – addition of accommodating resistance can be used; i.e. chains or bands added to the bar.
2./// Close Grip Bench Press (pinkies 2” inside rings– heavy work 1rm, 3rm, or 5rm)
3./// Overhead Press (Standing military press or push press 1-5rm, or 3-5x5)
4./// Dips (2 sets)
5./// Vertical Lat Work (Lat Pulldowns or Pullups – 5+ sets – if on lat pulldown use different bars and work different planes)
6./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
7./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)
Lower Body Workout Two:
1./// Cleans (1rm or 3x3 @ 75%) – drop low to catch the weight and front squat it up
2./// Olympic Back Squats (Ultra deep – ATF - 5x5 w/ same weight, or occasionally work up to a 5rm, also use accommodating resistance approximately every other week)
3./// Speed Deadlifts (conventional deadlifts for 6 singles with 60% of max deadlift. Do a single, wait about 45 seconds or a minute and then do another single for 6 singles. Concentrate on speed and form.
4./// Pullthroughs (3-5 sets of 10-12, some arched back, some rounded back)
-or-
4./// Glute Ham Raises (3-5 sets of 10-12)
5./// Weighted Hyperextensions (2-3x10-12 )
6./// Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)
C
curgeo
Guest
Did I mention how happy I am to be a powerlifter? Phreezer.....I love your analogy.
I assume he's talking about leaning over with the barbell and doing rows? but I'm not up on terminology. Kind of difficult to explain... Basically you load up the bar (start light and get proper form, you can hurt you back on this) grab it at about the distance where you grab to bench (overhand or underhand, I prefer underhand). Then get at about half squat position with your knees bent and torso/legs at about a 45 degree angle. Now pull the bar up to about the bottom of your chest/top of your stomach, lower and repeat. Try and keep your back straight because this can be trying on your lower back muscles.cbritton said:
As far as you inquiring about BB and PL. As basic as I can explain power lifters are trying to do everything they can to be as strong as possible. While body builders are trying to get big and look good. You will see body builders lifting heavy and eating alot too tho. This is because they go on gaining and cutting cycles. They will eat alot and try to get big while putting on lean muscle, and then diet and do higher reps to gain more definition. I guess you could say power lifters are always in the gaining phase accept there alot more devoted to the cause.
Phreezer_Machine
New member
This is actually from a Friend of Mine who is an Olympic Strength and conditioning coach.. I will post it.. JS stands for John Smith
rows: Well, the best way to do them is to start with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows.
This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curls…you always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak.
The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast. I have trained many people who could do this exercise with 350 or more lbs. I myself have done reps with 425, Ed Coan, who also knows how to do them properly, has done reps with over 500lbs without his back ever coming above parallel with the ground. That is stronger than Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman, by the way.
I did rows with Coleman once, actually, and I was far stronger than he was. He could not do more than 350lbs strictly although he could do over 500lbs by standing almost all the way up at the completion of each rep. Ed Coan is probably the strongest person on these, although one power-lifter I trained did manage 525 for a double done strictly.
Rows look at an anatomy chart. if the scapula and upper arms are held in a constant position, shortening of the lats WILL result in arching of the middle and upper back. i AM NOT saying that the lats are primarily responsible for upper back flexion... what i am saying is that they can assist in this.
i also HAVE done EMG work on various different rowing techniques... and there is not doubt that rows performed as i describe them will activate the lats more completely than done any other way i have ever seen. i have done EMG work on a large quantity of people for rows... and ive always found that these kind of rows activate the lats most completely. and besides, even if you dont buy the fact that they activate the lats better, hell, you can always be content with the fact that your getting an erector workout.
_________________________________________
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rows: Well, the best way to do them is to start with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows.
This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curls…you always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak.
The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast. I have trained many people who could do this exercise with 350 or more lbs. I myself have done reps with 425, Ed Coan, who also knows how to do them properly, has done reps with over 500lbs without his back ever coming above parallel with the ground. That is stronger than Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman, by the way.
I did rows with Coleman once, actually, and I was far stronger than he was. He could not do more than 350lbs strictly although he could do over 500lbs by standing almost all the way up at the completion of each rep. Ed Coan is probably the strongest person on these, although one power-lifter I trained did manage 525 for a double done strictly.
Rows look at an anatomy chart. if the scapula and upper arms are held in a constant position, shortening of the lats WILL result in arching of the middle and upper back. i AM NOT saying that the lats are primarily responsible for upper back flexion... what i am saying is that they can assist in this.
i also HAVE done EMG work on various different rowing techniques... and there is not doubt that rows performed as i describe them will activate the lats more completely than done any other way i have ever seen. i have done EMG work on a large quantity of people for rows... and ive always found that these kind of rows activate the lats most completely. and besides, even if you dont buy the fact that they activate the lats better, hell, you can always be content with the fact that your getting an erector workout.
_________________________________________
SUPERMOD@MESORX
BUY ANABOLICS 2005 NOW!
click here to learn about Steroids
Click here for Body Building DVDs and Books at discount prices
Click here for quality supplements at great prices
