Newbie needing some more help, thanks

[6(SIC)6]

Hey guys.

I'm back to find out some more info on weight training/muscle building from the experts. lol last time i tried this i got a lot of crazy replies, then i realised i'd posted it in the Anabolic Steroids forum, lol it was a fucking riot it was.

Anyway, i'll start with my goals, i want to simply get bigger, i want to be as big as (and this is the part where people flame me for various reasons) Edward Norton in American History X. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF HIS BODY TYPE. I'm not a Nazi, and im not a stupid kid wanting to be like my hero, his is the only body type i can find that fits my goal.

Ok now that that is through with, heres my stats (please bear in mind i'm quite the newbie and not sure what to include):


Age: 18

Height: 5ft 11'

Weight: 60/65 Kg's, Maybe 70 or more by now

Previous weight/muscle training experience: I got into sit-ups once and gained quite a bit of muscle which i retain to this day.

Metabolism: HIGH (read: Fucking High)

Calarorie intake per day: approx 3500 (as suggested by a forum member here)

Books on the subject: Arnold Schwarzenegger Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding, Chris Ryans SAS fitness book

Ok, i'm getting a bar thingy for my birthday this year (Sep 3rd) and i was wondering what combination of weights should i get to put on it?? The books i have should tell me what sort of things to do with the bar, ie- lift it, so i'm fine there.

I was also wondering, how long should i have been working out my upper body before i start on my legs? (I dont wanna be a chicken legs)

Ok thats it for now, thanks ALOT to the people in advance who help me, it's you guys that are helping me through all this, thankyou.

 

[Drigo]

First I'm not exactly sure of the metric system but my guess is that you are around 155lbs.

So first off you need to lift heavy to target your fast twitch muscles. I would do no more than 8 reps to FAILURE and I do mean complete positive failure. 4 sets on each exercise, 4 exercises for large muscle groups, 3 exercises for small muscle groups. (large:chest, back quads,traps) (small:bi's, tri's, delts, hams, and, calves)

Most definitely TRAIN YOUR LEGS NOW!!!!!!! You will see an incredible improvement in core strength for upper body as well when you train your legs. And your wieght will go up alot quicker when you start building muscle in your wheels.

You can trian you calves and abs twice a week because of the different muscle fiber makeup that are in those muscles. All other muscles train only once a week. Don't trian for more than an hour per session, alot of new lifters train for like 2+ hours(I did it myself) and overtrain which eats up all your gains.

Nutritionaly eat 180grams of protien but no more, you could damage your kidneys, try and keep the protien clean, lean steak(like eye round), chicken and turkey breast, tuna fish, twice a week salmon for the omegas.
if you are consuming 3500 cals (keep track with a log alot people say they are but when they actually sit down and write it all down the calorie count is lower) 3500 cals(clean) is ALOT of food. As you lean mass increases you can up your protien intake.

Remember you are only 18 years old your body is still not done growing up let alone out. You will fill out naturally in the next few years, training will just enhance it. Good Luck. Any other questions pm me.

-E

 

[6(SIC)6]

Hey thats another thing, could someone explain to me the whole 'reps, sets' thing?? I really dont know what that is!

Thanks for the reply man.

 

[Drigo]

Reps= the number of times you lift the weight in a row(ie: bicep culs)

Sets= Each bunch of times you lift the weight together.

Positive failure is when you cannot lift the wieght without assistance. So if you are doing 8 rep sets that 8th rep should be the absolute last rep you should be able to do without assistance. That will insure that your muscle is completely fatigued.

 

[Dannyboy]

well uhmm Im new to this boards too but not to training, anywayz, I'm 18 too and look like this;

6'3" (i think, I use the metric system as well)
82 kgs

I've been training for five years now and I've always had trouble with bench pressing (very little progress). what to do about this. also, keep in mind I'm prob not as serious about training as you guys are, since I don't even pay attention to what food I eat, my calorie intake, etc. etc. but i'm willing to learn!

 

[Dannyboy]

someone plz help me out here

 

[6(SIC)6]

I'd love to help but anything i say could be dangerous as i have no clue what i'm on about.

Bump^

 

[absolute hardgainer]

6sic:

Firstly, you don't know whether you weigh 60kg or more than 70kg? That's a difference of 132lb and more than 154lb, I suggest you find a scale and step on it.

Secondly, I don't know how the heck you "gained" muscle from doing sit-ups?!? If you gained muscle then I guess the sit-ups you were doing had very little to do with it, other than firming your abdominals.

Thirdly: Are you in a gym or training with weights at home? If not I suggest you join a gym, just a bar isn't enough equipment for serious training.

Dannyboy:

You have been training since you were 13 with very little progress? Please post your routine, food intake etc to get some pointers on how to increase your bench. What do you bench?

hardgainer (!)

 

[6(SIC)6]

6sic:

Firstly, you don't know whether you weigh 60kg or more than 70kg? That's a difference of 132lb and more than 154lb, I suggest you find a scale and step on it.

Secondly, I don't know how the heck you "gained" muscle from doing sit-ups?!? If you gained muscle then I guess the sit-ups you were doing had very little to do with it, other than firming your abdominals.

Thirdly: Are you in a gym or training with weights at home? If not I suggest you join a gym, just a bar isn't enough equipment for serious training.

Yeah i should get on some scales, trouble is i dont have any, i'll go on this weight and height thingy at the supermarket soon.

Well all i know is my abs got bigger, nuff said.

I'm training with weights at home but its semi serious, i might join a gym later when i get bigger or i get some money, which ever comes first.

 

[McBainXVII]

looks like the aussies are all in here, can you explain what a static hold is??

 

[6(SIC)6]

No i can not

 

[Dannyboy]

hardgainer:

when I firsted started out I didn't bench, for chest I did push-ups due to a back condition. anywayz, I started benching at 14 and at 15 I benched about....120 pounds, 3 sets, 8-12 reps. so this is not my max, mind you. well, now I bench around....160 pounds, again 3 sets, 8-12 reps per set. the thing is, that I can lift quite a lot of weight doing other exercises but benching always seems to stay behind, while for instance, peck deck is a piece of cake for me.
well my routine used to be (I trained at home till I was 17, keep that in mind too, so no machines, just a bench and weights, and a bar too of course) :

day 1: chest, shoulders
day 2: rest
day 3: back, bi's
day 4: rest
day 5: legs, tri's

and so forth.

now, I train in a gym for about a year but the thing is, it's turned into more of a healthclub type of thing, they removed the bench so no more benching for me! so I haven't benched in quite a while but I tried it recently because the "gym" was closed, so I had to train at home.

my food intake: it's a shame I know, but I don't follow a stict routine when It comes to food. so I can't give you any info on that. what I can tell you is that I have very low body fat, (barely 6% of my body weight) and I weigh about 182 pounds.

well that about covers it all, mind you the numbers I gave you for bench press are NOT my max.
hope y'all can help me out!

 

[Dannyboy]

bumpettybump

 

[Enock]

Dannyboy, theres thisone kid at our gym whos 19 I see him bench every week, and he can't even do as much as you. Theres 2 reasons he doesn't improve,

His diet sucks, he eats like a normal person. He doesn't eat like a lifter. Mabe he isn't serious enough to want to change his diet (the only thing he does is protein and creatine, like the creatine does him anygood) I don't know.

2nd, He doesn't push himself nearly hard enough. His reps get to high, you say that you are getting 8-12 for 3 sets at 160 I say up the weight. If you can only squeeze out 6 rest and try again (sometimes after upping the weight my first set is lower than subsequent sets mental thing or CNS or something). Then if you go down lower the weight a bit and hit it again. You still got your muscles thinking WTF more weight!

One other guy,(21) whos a bit stronger, but has been going for 2 years, (the 19 year old has been going for about 9mo. and does 155bench). He trains right but I once talked to him and he was like yeah I don't really eat much protein. what!?! Again another lifter w/ a normal diet, this is one of those guys that is genetical skinny, so he really needs to be eating right to grow, (the other 19 would squeeze by a bit better w/ a normal diet but his training also lacks)

I'm 6"3 180IBs at 19(81kgs) (started at 164IBS) stronger and a fuckload leaner (still a skinny bitch must work harder) than they are and I've been training for less time. ONLY reason I've improved and they havn't is because my Diet and Training are spot ON. The two are synergistic you can have one w/o the other but you won't see the serious changes untill you have them both down.

 

[The mann]

 

[Dannyboy]

yo enock, thnx for the tip! so you're saying I should be strict about my diet too? yeah I kinda already knew I had to that! so you're training for less than two years now? and you weigh 180 pounds? so I guess you could say you're built about the same way as I am (since we're the same height an' all), right? then, out of curiosity, what do you bench? (keep in mind that i'm not one of those stupid fucks that judges a lifter by looking at what he/she benches ) well, thnx for the help!

 

[blaster220]

Diet is KEY!

 

[theoak01]

no offense bro but if you wanna look like norton did then just add 10lbs of muscle and drop your bf very low,he was big at all in that movie

 

[Enock]

Last I benched was 195x8, I've switched off the bar for a while and am working w/ the dumbbells. I worked with the 75's for dumbbells when I switched over, and now I work with the 85's. I don't know if it improved my bar bench any I'm assuming a little bit but not that much, I think moving from 75's to 85's was mostly getting more stability. I tried these weird sized 87's today but wasn't happy with my form and went back to the 85's, don't know what it was more the added 2Ibs per side or the odd shaped weight. Either way looks like I'm w/ the 85's for a bit longer that or I'll go back to the bar.

Squats are at 185x10 Ass to the floor, parrallel last I did was 245x10. I like ATF more, I think the hardest part about parrallel is getting used to the weight on your back. I also think I tend to rest between dipping down a little too much.

Chins I do w/ a 40Ib weight for 8 then I drop it and continue.

Dips I do, w/ a 50Ib for 10, I love dips, though sometimes I try so hard to get one more rep I feel I'm going to tear my arms off, I do them leaning forward for more chest activity.

I think my bi's tri's suck, I'm not even sure where I'm at w/ them. Partly because I do them after back/chest respectively and they are tired before I begin. I hate doing them.

Shoulder press is 50s or was it 55s hmm damnit. Logs at the gym, I do them sitting w/o a back support, though I think I'm going to use a back support for now on last time I pulled somesort of muscle in my neck. The backing I feel makes it a bit easier, since you tend not to be 100% straight up and down in doing them. It was prolly 50s and I was trying the 55s when I got hurt figures.


Sometimes for bench I found it helps to goto a heavy weight that you can get about 3 reps (but don't fatigue out) then go back to your normal weight, seems so much easier often I get more reps that way. CNS jolt I guess.


I posted a pic at one point where I only weighed 170IB (I weigh 180Ib now) It was after cardio so I was flat I looked like a runt probally still do.
http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?threadid=15976&highlight=Bf%+pic

There it is, I'm about the same bf% now, but 10IB heavier. damn scrawny in that picture, need carbs

 

[6(SIC)6]

Damn scrawny? DAMN SCRAWNY??

Dude do you need glasses or what. Your a fucking tank in those pics, now your 10 pounds heavier? Bloody hell.

 

[6(SIC)6]

Reps= the number of times you lift the weight in a row(ie: bicep culs)

Sets= Each bunch of times you lift the weight together.

Positive failure is when you cannot lift the wieght without assistance. So if you are doing 8 rep sets that 8th rep should be the absolute last rep you should be able to do without assistance. That will insure that your muscle is completely fatigued.

Hey what if i can lift more than 8 reps of 4 sets? I think i could.

 

[Dannyboy]

enock; thnx for giving me the numbers, I like comparing myself to other lifters my age.
hey, when you squat, do ya just lift the weight over your head and place it behind your neck, or do you use a machine? 'cause I always lift it over my head and 245 seems a lot (at least to me!) to lift over ya head. and I agree with you about parallel
you say your bis and tris suck? well, maybe I could help ya with the bis, cause I always think of that as my strong point, although my tris arent that great, either.
so what exercises do you do to work your bis?
shoulders I use the 50s too (where I come from we do the math in kgs, but I think I'm right about this), and my neck hurts like a mofo sometimes when I don't use back support while doing military presses!
o yeah and, over what time period did you gain those 10 lbs? just wonderin?

6(Sic)6;

if u can do more than 8 reps, 4 sets then you simply up the weight!

 

[Enock]

Sic, Thnx man

Dannyb,


Theres a squat rack that has 2 catch bars that you position to just below your shoulder height so that you can place a bar across the, and load the weight up and then position your self under it so you lift it w/ you back and then you back out. When you done you just walk back in and place it back on the bars.

I'm not really sure how long its been for the added 10Ibs, Some of its water my water weight fluctuates like crazy. I've actually started to cut again, I had set a goal w/ my self that I would bulk to 180 then cut (even if I didn't need to) untill I start to lose strength. I don't think its going to take very long for that to happen since I didn't put much fat on during the bulk. I'm gonna update my pic as soon as I'm done, that way I can see the true net muscle gain and BF% change.

I do bis after back, I usually start w/ standing dumbbell curls, I curl both up at the same time, and I tend not to curl them directly infront of me but instead put off to the sides, so I don't have to worry about back swing as much. I'm not sure if that hurts/helps or doesn't make a bit of dif.

I also found I quite like cable curls, while laying down, I don't have to focus on not swinging anything since I'm up against the ground, and I don't have to stand or balance moreself or anything so I can completely focus on just bending my arm.

Thats it, I usually do a few sets of each and I'm spent after all the back work they are usually a pretty spent.

Tris, I do after some of the major chest movements then I switch between chest work and tri work. I do rope pull downs and laying skull crushers w/ an EZcurl bar.

Thats it I hate working them I guess, so I don't have much variety for them, these were the excersices I found most bearable.

 

[Dannyboy]

oh so you use a squat rack!! hehe that clears it all up! at my gym they don't have one, the lazy bums! but I have seen one before, it's just that I used to train at home for years so I never went to any gym for a looooooooooong time.
are you gonna cut at this stage already? hmmm, that's interesting.....or was your goal not specifically bulking?

now, I'll try ta help you with your bis:

the routine I used when I first started out seriously was(keep in mind that I also trained my back and bis on the same day);

standing barbell curls
hammer curls
concentration curls

now, when you said that your bis suck, didya mean size, definition or.........?
anywayz, these exercises REALLY worked for me, added a couple inches in NO time flat.
now, you said your bis are spent when you do all your back exercises? well the logical thing for me to say would be to cut down on those back exercises so you have more energy to work your bis, but if you hate doing bis then you probably wont listen to me anywayz! but I always think it's important to be balanced, that's why I always try to improve my muscle groups that lag behind. well, that's my two cents!

 

[absolute hardgainer]

DannyBoy: At 182lb and 6% BF you sound like you are doing very well. My advice is, if your gym has the audacity and nerve to remove the bench (or the squat rack, or deadlift platforms) then you should draw the consequences and leave for a gym that caters to your needs. I am pretty ticked off at gyms who cater only to 'health and fitness' members and leave weight trainers behind.

McBain: 'static hold' is a self-explanatory term. You hold a weight at a constant 'static' position, neither in the concentric or eccentric phase but at the top of the lift. It can be used to increase strength, much like doing negatives at the end of a set, it's benefits for bodybuilding have been debated, but not conclusively analysed to my knowledge.

hardgainer (pump)

 

[Dannyboy]

thnx hardgainer ! yeah I guess you're right about the gym an' all, I know exactly what you mean by "health and fitness members" and all. it's really quite sad, the max weight of the peck deck machine is about 180 lbs, which I find a piece of cake! but the subscription was for a year, it seemed like a nice gym in the beginning (and it was) but they removed all kinds of things, even 70 lbs db's because they were "too heavy for most people there" argghh.... well, guessa I'll be looking for a gym sometime soon!