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NEW DIET INVENTED!!!...read on

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mr.X
  • Start date Start date
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Mr.X

Guest
what can I say Mr.X...

you are da man! you rock!

I've only been on this forum for about a month and yet I've found more solid info than I had found everywhere else on the internet (combined) over the past few years!

thanks!

bonapart
 
You forgot the ketogenic ratio Mr.X in your
article.

Ketogenic ratio necessary to maintain ketosis
(At ANY meal)

Fat(g)
-------------------- > 1.5 and C<30g/day as a restriction.
Prot(g)+carbs(g)

Fat is 10% glucogenic, protein is 58% glucogenic and carbs are 100% glucogenic.

Glucogenic=conversion to glucose.

Godspeed
 
Fonz said:
You forgot the ketogenic ratio Mr.X in your
article.

Ketogenic ratio necessary to maintain ketosis
(At ANY meal)

Fat(g)
-------------------- > 1.5 and C<30g/day as a restriction.
Prot(g)+carbs(g)

Fat is 10% glucogenic, protein is 58% glucogenic and carbs are 100% glucogenic.

Glucogenic=conversion to glucose.

Godspeed
Click to expand...

Fonz, I'm not clear on the way you are presenting your topic. Please make this more clear. Or PM me with suggestions.

Mr.X :cool:
 
The ketogenecity of a meal is determined by the above equation. Any meal with a ketogenic ratio
lower than 1.5:1 will kick you out of ketosis.

Godspeed
 
Fonz said:
The ketogenecity of a meal is determined by the above equation. Any meal with a ketogenic ratio
lower than 1.5:1 will kick you out of ketosis.

Godspeed
Click to expand...

Oh, you are saying that Ketogenic ratios HAVE to be 1.5:1 (fat/protein) to maintain ketosis. That is a false statement and becomes inconsistent with many people. In fact, studies have show that Ketosis can be maintained with simple 1:1 ratios, and in some cases even lower fat ratios accomplished ketosis.

Over the years, I've actually held a steady rate of Ketosis (ketosix and Ketone blood meter) with 40%fat/60% protein ratios.

Mr.X :cool:
 
The ketogenic ratio is needed for keto diets for epilepsy in children, but not for us. Technically, you don't even need any fat to maintain a ketogenic diet, its there for the calories.
 
Dieseltwin, thats UTTER NONSENSE.

A completely protein diet will convert to glucose with
58% efficiency therefore kicking you out of Ketosis for SURE.

And I still disagree with Mr.X on this. While a 1:1 ketogenic
ratio will keep you in mild ketosis, ANY LOWER and
you'll get kicked out for a short time. Period.

I find it exceptionally hard to believe that a 40%fat/60%protein
meal didn't kick you out of ketosis for a few hours
AT LEAST.

Besides, the reasoning behnd te 1:1 approach(Lyle McDonald)
was that Ketone blood levels have A DIRECT IMPACT
on ketone formation from adipose tissue fatty acids.
Basically, the more diluted the amount of ketones in
the bloodstream, the more ketones will be produced from
body-fat stores.
At higher ratios, ketone blood concentrations are high, therefore
ketone formation from body-fat remains lowered.

Just think about it.

A 1000Kcal meal composed of 40%fat and 60% protein
with ZERO carbs.

400Kcal fat/9Kcal/g*0.1=4.44g of glucose.
600Kcal pro/4Kcal/g*0.58= 87g glucose

Total glucose: 91.44g


I refuse to believe that a meal with 91.44g of glucose WON'T
kick you out of ketosis. UNLESS insulin or high dose ALA is used.

Godspeed
 
Mr X.

Ive now been on your CKD diet for a week and I love it.
Ive now read your MKD insulin approach and am verry intrested, BUT:

I have a few questions that I hope you an answer, as I dont quite understand everything.

In the CKD diet you have set ratios of protien/fats

Day:


1-> 85%fat/15%protein--BMR-5%


2-> 75%fat/25%protein--BMR-10%

But in MKD you have

Day 1: 85% fat/15% protein---BMR ->

Day 2: 85%fat/15% protein---BMR->

Which one is right?

Question 2

You also have different lengths in cardio and weight training in CKD and no workout in MKD.

Question 3

Do I add that 60g of protein to my total cal or have it as an extra?




Can I just Stick with the CKD and add the insulin/protien in the morning?

Thanks man sorry for all the questions.
And keep up all the good info.
Horse.
 
Fonz,
I wrote my reply in a hurry and I realize my wording could be misunderstood. However, EXCESS protein can kick you out of ketosis. (remember that your brain adapts to the ketones and low glucose after a while, lowing the protein requirement to prevent muscle protein from breakdown)
If you want to mention Lyle McDonald, did you even
read his book? He talked about a 300 kcal/day liquid protein ketogenic diet in the 70's that people actually died off of (because it wasn't a complete protein.)
The fat is there providing calories, helping the liver produce ketones (it'll start producing ketones faster with (more) dietary fat-which is one of the reasons for the approach of a higher fat to protein ratio the days after carb-up), etc.
 
Last edited:
Fonz said:
And I still disagree with Mr.X on this. While a 1:1 ketogenic
ratio will keep you in mild ketosis, ANY LOWER and
you'll get kicked out for a short time. Period.
Click to expand...
You are not grasping the concept of the Ketonic maintenance here. You are stating that protein can be converted into glucose at a 58% efficiency rate...that is correct and exactly the same thing I state in my CKD manual BUT you are mistaking the facts here. For, ONLY EXCESS protein is converted into glucose, so, at the same time, protein needed for daily maintenance is used just for that and NOT for protein/glucose conversion.
I find it exceptionally hard to believe that a 40%fat/60%protein
meal didn't kick you out of ketosis for a few hours
AT LEAST.
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, it's a fact that a person can stay in ketosis with 40%fat/60% fat/protein ratios, although I DO NOT recommend this in my CKD manual, it can be done. This concept is not only true for me, but for many people that have tested their blood for ketone content and ketosix at the same time.

Besides, the reasoning behnd te 1:1 approach(Lyle McDonald)
was that Ketone blood levels have A DIRECT IMPACT
on ketone formation from adipose tissue fatty acids.
Basically, the more diluted the amount of ketones in
the bloodstream, the more ketones will be produced from
body-fat stores.
At higher ratios, ketone blood concentrations are high, therefore
ketone formation from body-fat remains lowered.

Just think about it.

A 1000Kcal meal composed of 40%fat and 60% protein
with ZERO carbs.

400Kcal fat/9Kcal/g*0.1=4.44g of glucose.
600Kcal pro/4Kcal/g*0.58= 87g glucose

Total glucose: 91.44g
Click to expand...
Incorrect, for NOT all protein is converted to glucose, in fact, at these ratios fat will NOT covert to glucose in this case and the protein (looking at the unreasonable fact that you used a 1000cal meal) will NOT convert to glucose at the rate you state. More of a 10-12g conversion will be happening, yet due to the dietary fat, the glucose will not kick you out of Ketosis. Plus, reasoning at hand being you are in Ketosis, those 10 carbs would refill mediocre muscle glycogen without even coming close to short handing the glucagon release by the liver.

Mr.X :cool:
 
horse said:
Mr X.

Ive now been on your CKD diet for a week and I love it.
Ive now read your MKD insulin approach and am verry intrested, BUT:

I have a few questions that I hope you an answer, as I dont quite understand everything.

In the CKD diet you have set ratios of protien/fats

Day:


1-> 85%fat/15%protein--BMR-5%


2-> 75%fat/25%protein--BMR-10%

But in MKD you have

Day 1: 85% fat/15% protein---BMR ->

Day 2: 85%fat/15% protein---BMR->

Which one is right?

Question 2

You also have different lengths in cardio and weight training in CKD and no workout in MKD.

Question 3

Do I add that 60g of protein to my total cal or have it as an extra?




Can I just Stick with the CKD and add the insulin/protien in the morning?

Thanks man sorry for all the questions.
And keep up all the good info.
Horse.
Click to expand...

1)IF you are doing the MKD then FOLLOW the MKD ratios, they are close, but the lower fat is because of the insulin.
2)USE the CKD manual workout/cardio for your MKD
3)Add the calories from protein (protein has 4cal/g) to your total daily calorie intake
4)Stick with the MKD instructions and, NO, you can't have insulin with fats. Combining insulin w/ fat is a sure way to compete in the sumo wrestling championships. So, don't do it...just stick to the MKD manual.

Mr.X :cool:
 
LewdTenant said:
link to SHIFT DIET is no good in the original post of this thread.
Click to expand...

Works fine for me...try clicking the
News/Articles button above on the banner
maybe that will work better.

Mr.X :cool:
 
dieseltwin said:
Fonz,
I wrote my reply in a hurry and I realize my wording could be misunderstood. However, EXCESS protein can kick you out of ketosis. (remember that your brain adapts to the ketones and low glucose after a while, lowing the protein requirement to prevent muscle protein from breakdown)
If you want to mention Lyle McDonald, did you even
read his book? He talked about a 300 kcal/day liquid protein ketogenic diet in the 70's that people actually died off of (because it wasn't a complete protein.)
The fat is there providing calories, helping the liver produce ketones (it'll start producing ketones faster with (more) dietary fat-which is one of the reasons for the approach of a higher fat to protein ratio the days after carb-up), etc.
Click to expand...


You're barking up the wrong tree here. I've read bot Lyle's
and Duchaines books, AND also perused through 100's of
starvation-diet papers on Medline, which were used by Lyle
for his research.
i.e. What happens metabolically after Day 3 on a starvation diet
is almost identical to a ketogenic diet.

AND, I still disagree with Mr.X. Maybe after LONG-TERM
adaptation to a keto diet has occurred will the body let
you eat more protein and less fat, and still remain in ketosis.
SHORT-TERM: Not a chance.

And, the article doesn't mention ketone's energy inefficiency.
1 Ketone yields approx. 7Kcal/gram, while fat yields
9 Kcal/gram.
If you were to create a 1000Kcal/day caloric deficit in a
ketogenic diet, it would realy be 1230KCal, due to the
caloric differential(9Kcal/7Kcal) between triglycerides
and ketones.

Godspeed
 
Fonz said:

AND, I still disagree with Mr.X. Maybe after LONG-TERM
adaptation to a keto diet has occurred will the body let
you eat more protein and less fat, and still remain in ketosis.
SHORT-TERM: Not a chance.

And, the article doesn't mention ketone's energy inefficiency.
1 Ketone yields approx. 7Kcal/gram, while fat yields
9 Kcal/gram.
If you were to create a 1000Kcal/day caloric deficit in a
ketogenic diet, it would realy be 1230KCal, due to the
caloric differential(9Kcal/7Kcal) between triglycerides
and ketones.

Godspeed
Click to expand...

You know I feel like I am going no where here, you are just stating theories with no scientific evidence to them. I'll finish this argument simply by stating: You need to re-read some of the facts on Ketosis and the Ketonic state itself...when you have done that, then we can continue this conversation. The motonomy of this subject is futile for the little time I have. Again, only EXCESS protein is converted to glucose. Key word: EXCESS.

1)The article does not have to mention ketone's energy inefficiency, which is by the way incorrect, for ketones are very energy efficient when adaptation occurs.
2)When you are in Ketosis, even short term, higher protein can still be used and you will be in Ketosis...as long as certain ratios are upkept...Read the CKD manual over, I stated plainly there that protein intake needs to be kept at the ratios I've listed.

Read this study and other please:
Diet-induced ketosis increases monocarboxylate transporter (MCT1) levels in rat brain.
Leino RL, Gerhart DZ, Duelli R, Enerson BE, Drewes LR.
Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, School of Medicine, University of Minnesota, Duluth, MN 55812, USA.

Mr.X :cool:
 
Burning_Inside said:
Oh no, not a battle of the "But I read"'s
Click to expand...

LOL.

Now, if only we were rats............ :)

I wonder what the success rate is for Keto dieters?

Atkins won't release his info. He just releases
the cases that work, Too bad realy.

Godspeed
 
SHIFT and pregnancy????

Mr. X.,

Your links gave me most of the information I needed.. composition of CKD. however, I do have questions as it relates to pregnancy. is it suggested? If not, do you know why not?

also, what is the energy level like? I play rugby and need to keep my energy level as high as possible for the 80 minutes of play.

thanks
 
SHIFT and Pregnancy... not a good idea

Well, after reading are re-reading the CKD, TKD and SHIFT programs, I've come to the assumption that it will not be advantageous for me nor the baby to go on one at this time or during the breast feeding. As it is, I must consume 200-300 calories more than my daily caloric need, 500 during breastfeeding. Since the programs radiate around the BMR, I will not be receiving enough nutrients to feed the baby.
 
Re: SHIFT and pregnancy????

poohbear said:
Mr. X.,

Your links gave me most of the information I needed.. composition of CKD. however, I do have questions as it relates to pregnancy. is it suggested? If not, do you know why not?

also, what is the energy level like? I play rugby and need to keep my energy level as high as possible for the 80 minutes of play.

thanks
Click to expand...
NO! never diet during pregnancy, I have read some studies by Albert Steel PhD and he always points out the problems that arise w/ dieting+pregnancy....Please, do not diet....just stick to healthy eating and if you crave food, well have them :D

Mr.X :cool:
 
Re: SHIFT and pregnancy????

poohbear said:

also, what is the energy level like? I play rugby and need to keep my energy level as high as possible for the 80 minutes of play.

thanks
Click to expand...

I would like to know the answer to that too.

Mr.X :cool:
 
7 day-3step--Protein/Carb cycling Manual

Hello,

is there anymore information available
concerning the "7 day-3step--Protein/Carb cycling"?

I'd be interested in reading more about it from a theorehtical viewpoint.

Willi
 
Re: 7 day-3step--Protein/Carb cycling Manual

Willi said:
Hello,

is there anymore information available
concerning the "7 day-3step--Protein/Carb cycling"?

I'd be interested in reading more about it from a theorehtical viewpoint.

Willi
Click to expand...

Just to clear something up...Protein/Carb cycling is NOT a theory, it has been proven in practise numerous times by people. It has become one of the ways people diet for pre-comp...
what would you like to know about the diet exactly?

Mr.X :cool:
 
Re: Re: 7 day-3step--Protein/Carb cycling Manual

Mr.X said:


Just to clear something up...Protein/Carb cycling is NOT a theory, it has been proven in practise numerous times by people. It has become one of the ways people diet for pre-comp...
what would you like to know about the diet exactly?

Mr.X :cool:
Click to expand...

Sorry if I chose the wrong english word. I certainly did not mean to offend or place this diet strategy in question.
I would be interested in knowing WHY it works. Your article was interesting, but was more than anything else,
a sample meal plan.
Who was/is responsible for this type of diet? Was one person more or less responsible for it's development?

Thank you for the information.

Willi
 
hi guys
i have been on the keto diet for 2 weeks now
this is my 3rd week
and i have got it done to the followin

1. proetin drink plus 20ml flax
the protein drink is zero carbs and 150 cal

2. some fish and cheese =200 cal
and 5g carbs
27g protein and 9g fat

3. protien drink +flax

4. fish

5. flax and protein drink

thats it sometimes its fish 3 times a day
some times chicken/ egg
also on ephedrine

i weigh 166 lbs
and i am keeping my cals at ~1300-1400
what ya think
do i need to tweak anywhere

ketosis kicks ass :D
 
gouku said:
hi guys
i have been on the keto diet for 2 weeks now
this is my 3rd week
and i have got it done to the followin

1. proetin drink plus 20ml flax
the protein drink is zero carbs and 150 cal

2. some fish and cheese =200 cal
and 5g carbs
27g protein and 9g fat

3. protien drink +flax

4. fish

5. flax and protein drink

thats it sometimes its fish 3 times a day
some times chicken/ egg
also on ephedrine

i weigh 166 lbs
and i am keeping my cals at ~1300-1400
what ya think
do i need to tweak anywhere

ketosis kicks ass :D
Click to expand...

Yes, you need to "tweak" two things.
1) INCREASE! calories to at least bodyweight x 12...or your body will go into a metabolic slowdown
2)Eat MORE fat, for excess protein can kick you out of ketosis. Get AT LEAST 1:1 fat/protein ratio daily.

Mr.X :cool:
 
Mr X or Fonz, What do you think of this?

I weigh 165lbs.

Day 1-4: Carbs 0-15, Fat 300grams, Protein 150grams

Day 5 - 8: Carbs 0-15, Fat 160grams, Protein 60 grams

Day 9: Carbs 400 grams,Protein 160 grams,Fat 50 grams

I Do light cardio 30 minutes, 6 days a week. and hit the weights 4 times a week.

I've only got maybe 5 more lbs of fat to lose before I hit my goal of 7% Bodyfat. These last 5 are going to be Tuff, and i'm worried about losing muscles. Do you think that in 3 weeks, with this high calorie keto state, low calorie keto state, and one carb up day that i will lose these last 5lbs?

I take ALA on carb up days and i feel incredible. Do you think i should take ALA everyday with meals?

On carb up i take anywhere from 1-1.5 grams of Lipoic Acid. On regular days should i take that much or reduce it?

Also Chicken Franks are on sale at Ralphs for 99 cents, each have 15grams of fat, 5 grams of protein, and 0 carbs.
 
Just for future reference.....How are you folks defining ketosis given that ketones are always present in the blood to some degree, and ketones are only excreted in urine if they are IN EXCESS to the body's fuel requirements???
 
Ketones are present in the blood as a normal detoxifying process from the liver, from varying substances. Also the main process that creates ketones and alkanes is lipid peroxidation, this is when free radicals attack the poly-unsatured fat coating of cholesterol while its being transported from liver to the cell (vit E is good for halting this process and vit C is used to regenerate vit E). High ketones in the blood while not on a ketogenic diet could be an indication that u either are abusing certain drugs or worse that u have lipid peroxidation occuring, this is the initial process that leads to atherosclerosis.

The state of ketosis is when ur body actull breaks down fats to use as a primary fuel, therefore blood ketones will be naturally higher giving rise to the state Ketosis.
 
Thanks muscleburn. I am well aware of the biochemistry of ketosis. My question should have been what are Mr X and Fonz using as a measurement of ketosis in their arguements against eachother? I may have this all wrong, but it seems that Fonz is argueing from a scientific point of view (trying to glean wisdom from medical journals which were prolly not looking at the type of ketosis that bodybuilders use), and Mr X is standing on more or less practical experience. And as my ex-boss was so fond of saying "it may work in practice but it won't work in theory". Clearly one can be in ketosis without excreting measureable quantities in the urine. So it seems a pointless disagreement unless we're going to measure blood ketone, glucose and insulin levels and talk about the effect a high protein intake has on those parameters.
 
Sorry man, its hard to grasp who knows what on here....

But with what u are saying, a blood test is the only way to find out if u dont get measurable quantities in the urine. Typical example alcohol breath tests positive but blood tests negative, maybe not a fair comparison but what u excret does not necessarily say whats going on systemically.
 
Mr X your ideas on ketogentic dieting look great. I have got ripped on a ratio of 30 to 40% fat to 60% protein. Our bodies do not follow percise text book calculations. In bodybuilding, dieting, etc real world results are the only criteria that counts. For decades the medical and science community's position statement was that steroids did not add muscle or enhance performance. The fda still touts the stupid 70% carb diet for optimal health.
 
Mr X,

I have a question that I hope you can answer. I am in Ketosis according to the Keto-Stix. I have gone from 330# to 260#. Although I am in ketosis I have hit a plateau, is this common? I thought as long as you are in ketosis you continue to lose weight. Fact or Fiction? I am doing a kind of Atkins Diet but I dont go over 20 grams of carbs per day ever.

Thanks
Big Al
 
Big_Al1970 said:
Mr X,

I have a question that I hope you can answer. I am in Ketosis according to the Keto-Stix. I have gone from 330# to 260#. Although I am in ketosis I have hit a plateau, is this common? I thought as long as you are in ketosis you continue to lose weight. Fact or Fiction? I am doing a kind of Atkins Diet but I dont go over 20 grams of carbs per day ever.

Thanks
Big Al
Click to expand...

Yes, a plateau is very common while doing a SKD (standard-ketonic-diet) because, from what I've seen, the body--after a time--starts to become quiet efficient at burning fat, yet it slows the process down very highly and keeps the bf% constant. What I would recommend is a carb-up day, i.e., 1 day of high-carbs.
Read over my CKD manual for carb-up facts.

Mr.X :cool:
 
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