need advice w/ my HRT program

[bigtimecoach]

I'm 52 and a former pro football player who has been on a HRT program for about 1 year. I'm seeing a anti-aging doc from NYC and he has me on 150mg testosterone creme daily, 50 mg DHEA daily, and 2 iu's of GH - 6 x week. My blood work numbers from October are total test 431 (range -260-1000 ng/dl), free test 0.9 % (range 1.0-2.7 %), and free test 40.4 (range 50.0-210.00). My IGF-I is 205 and my estradiol, ultra-sensitive 24 (range 10-50pg/ml). I'm 6'3 and weigh 215 w/ 10.7% body-fat. I do workout daily (weights and cardio). My problems are that I still get very tired every afternoon (take many naps) and then am tired thougout the night. Also, I'm developing some breasts tits and they are sentitive. Any thoughts on my free test being so low ? Also my IGF seems low at 2 iu of GH. Any thoughts on getting tired. Thanks in advance

 

[5150guy]

First off, your total T is still on the low side. I really did not start to feel the real benefits of my TRT program until holding steady at 800 plus. Also, your pre -gynocomastia symptoms are either due to too much estrogen, too much prolactin, or both.

My bet is that you would start to feel alot better if your estrogen came down under twenty through using an aromatase inhibitor such as arimidex.

Although it is considered old school TRT, the used of pellets typically gives a much more constant release rate and the steady release of T into the blood stream will reduce the aromatization and lower your E2 a bit

I have never been on HGH, so i cant help you with that one.

 

[bigtimecoach]

First off, your total T is still on the low side. I really did not start to feel the real benefits of my TRT program until holding steady at 800 plus. Also, your pre -gynocomastia symptoms are either due to too much estrogen, too much prolactin, or both.

My bet is that you would start to feel alot better if your estrogen came down under twenty through using an aromatase inhibitor such as arimidex.

Although it is considered old school TRT, the used of pellets typically gives a much more constant release rate and the steady release of T into the blood stream will reduce the aromatization and lower your E2 a bit

I have never been on HGH, so i cant help you with that one.

Thanks, 5150, has anyone used a natural aromtase called chrysin ?? Also what the difference between Total test and Free testosterone ?

 

[Zircon]

his estradiol looks normal?

wouldn't aifm be worth a shot, one pump a day, or 1 pump eod?

 

[5150guy]

Thanks, 5150, has anyone used a natural aromtase called chrysin ?? Also what the difference between Total test and Free testosterone ?

Chrysin is not any where near as effective as arimidex or Femara. I have tried Chrysin before and it is marginally effective.

Total T=Total serum T

Free T=amount not bound to SHGB

When it comes to regulating E2, you can not just go by some range. Each man has his own uinique level of E that will bring about the proper T/E ratio. This is a key parameter of managing a TRT program. If your doctor has not been calculating and monitoring your T/E ratio, you are missing a key element to tuning in your TRT program

As you mentioned some pregynocomastia symptoms, I would try getting your E2 levels down. If you have a doc who only goes by "being in range" he or she is not doing you justice. The target is not to just "be in range". The goal is to is to get the maximum health benefits and qaultiy of life from your TRT program. As time goes on you will learn to listen to your body which is a key part of tuning in ones TRT program.

Try this for an experiment. Get your doctor to boost you up to about 800-1000 (not unless you have prostate problems), drop your E2 a bit, and then report back. My bet is that you will then really start to enjoy all the touted benefits of TRT.

I suggest you read the book by Dr. Eugene Shippen on TRT. You can get it from amazon.com.

 

[nsashbl01]

I can give ya my experiences with TRT/HRT. 2iu of HGH keeps me on the low end of the range! 4iu keeps me on the high end, where most people would be well above. I'm also very gyno sensitive, (glandular not fatty) and one thing that will agravate it is HGH believe it or not! I uses adex most of the time, but when I get gyno my E is normal usually and I need Nolva to combat it. be carefull with the hgh dosing and ramp up slowly if you change doses. Seems any hormonal change can give gyno for some. Not much time now but pm me if you need any help....

 

[macrophage69alpha]

his estradiol looks normal?

wouldn't aifm be worth a shot, one pump a day, or 1 pump eod?

yes. 1 pump ED, up to 2 pumps ED.

estro looks mid range, but if ER upregulation is present for other reason. even moderate E levels can cause issues.

test is actually on the low end, free test is on the very low end, AIFM will help with both.

 

[bigtimecoach]

yes. 1 pump ED, up to 2 pumps ED.

estro looks mid range, but if ER upregulation is present for other reason. even moderate E levels can cause issues.

test is actually on the low end, free test is on the very low end, AIFM will help with both.

Thanks allot......I'll give AIFM a try.

 

[Zircon]

hmmm just saw free test...that's very low...

 

[KappaRaider]

I would look at getting your Testosterone through an injection. I resond better to those than the gels. I am also using the DHEA at 50mg. I would also look into .25 of arimidex every other day for your Estrogen levels. My doc prescribed me that as well.

Good luck

 

[bigtimecoach]

I would look at getting your Testosterone through an injection. I resond better to those than the gels. I am also using the DHEA at 50mg. I would also look into .25 of arimidex every other day for your Estrogen levels. My doc prescribed me that as well.

Good luck

Is this a HRT program that you are on for good ? Or is it a program you cycle. My program of 150mg test creme and 2 iu GH and 50 DHEA is an anti-aging program that I'm looking to stay on for good.

 

[digger]

Death-to-spammers bumpage to get this back up to the top of the board.

 

[Vertigo]

It appears from your test results that a large portion of your T is bound to SHBG and albumin. Since T that is bound to albumin is still considered bioavailable your goal would be to reduce SHBG. SHBG will decline with increasing total T levels. If you're like me, topical administration of Testosterone just doesn't raise T levels enough. Injections or pellets may be your only option. The caveat to these types of therapy is a sudden increase in estradiol, in which a potent AI is required. Also, determining your SHBG level would be advisable. A good indicator of androgen deficiency is Free Androgen Index. FAI is calculated as Total T in nmol / SHBG in nmol. You will have to convert T in your lab result from ng/dL to nmol/L. To do this multiply the ng/dL value by 0.0347. Anything below 50% will likely produce symptoms of andropause. Ideally you want to be >70%. Additional, a look at T:E ratio will confirm you're reaching optimum therapy. The closer your T:E is to 50:1 the more you duplicate youthful levels.

I would also be very cautious of the lab (range) pitfall. I recently had lab work done in a facility that used 150-750 as a normal range for Testosterone values. Must have been a female Pathologist who established these values.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Death-to-spammers bumpage to get this back up to the top of the board.

this is one board where a bump is not needed to keep at the top

(edit: now see what you mean)-- not within the thread but on the board... (thats what you get for linking from profile and not looking at the board )

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I would also be very cautious of the lab (range) pitfall. I recently had lab work done in a facility that used 150-750 as a normal range for Testosterone values. Must have been a female Pathologist who established these values.

agree. though whats now "normal range" is actually low, due to xenoestrogen exposure. Would venture to guess that natural T levels were higher a century ago.

 

[Vertigo]

agree. though whats now "normal range" is actually low, due to xenoestrogen exposure. Would venture to guess that natural T levels were higher a century ago.

I'd bet you're right Macro. Not only is there an increased exposure to environmental estrogens, but a social trend to demasculinate the male in the U.S. The mere fact that we now have laws that make posession and use of the primary male hormone a crime shouts injustice. I could only imagine the outrage from the feminist masses if the same standards were applied to American women. I think it's safe to assume that it won't be anytime soon when we see Granny muling her Premarin in from Nogales. Given that our laws regarding testosterone and other AAS use are predicated and fashioned by aged and languishing old men who's estrogen levels most likely surpass that of their wife's one cannot be suprised.

Sorry for hijacking this thread with my diatribe.

 

[JetCityDude]

I'd bet you're right Macro. Not only is there an increased exposure to environmental estrogens, but a social trend to demasculinate the male in the U.S. The mere fact that we now have laws that make posession and use of the primary male hormone a crime shouts injustice. I could only imagine the outrage from the feminist masses if the same standards were applied to American women. I think it's safe to assume that it won't be anytime soon when we see Granny muling her Premarin in from Nogales. Given that our laws regarding testosterone and other AAS use are predicated and fashioned by aged and languishing old men who's estrogen levels most likely surpass that of their wife's one cannot be suprised.

Sorry for hijacking this thread with my diatribe.

If you could give an award for reply of the week, this would be it.

 

[thelion2005]

I've got a lot of experience with HRT and cycles at 63. Drugs are only a piece of the solution to this feeling older problem. You have to have a full body exercise program with full recovery, and a low fast carb/high protein diet with the HRT drugs to get back to feeling in your 20's.

The HRT drugs for ultimate health are easy:
100 mg of test (I like topical bio-identical)
1.25 iu HGH eod
0.25 a-dex Sun and Thurs

At 63, I am in the best health ever.