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BronzedGoddess
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wilson6 said:
I find it MOTIVATING to see pics of muscular, yet natural physiques. I keeps me from making excuses for myself.
Natural....or not?
- Thread starter VooDoo Lady
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I find it MOTIVATING to see pics of muscular, yet natural physiques. I keeps me from making excuses for myself.
VooDoo Lady
New member
WarLobo said:
In case you haven't noticed already I am incredibly THIN SKINNED. It was just last week that I got some really mean karma for no reason and I had a little hissy fit and erased all of my posts (THAT'LL show UM - I thought
) It wasn't from this forum - it was from chat - but I am very polite in real life and I am very polite on-line. Some people use the anonymity of the Internet to become flaming assholes, I think it's just wrong to hurt people for "fun."
:rant over:
BTW - Apology accepted thebabydoc
strong island
New member
#1 could be natural......
if its a guy with a nice blonde wig on
if its a guy with a nice blonde wig on
You go, VDL!
I think it's important to know how people got where they are...not for questions of morality and all that, but sot hat aspiring BBers like me and many others on this board can know whaat to expect and how our heros got where they are.
Wyst
Don't delete your posts again, VDL, or you'll get a karmic buttkicking! LOL.
xoxo
Wyst
I think it's important to know how people got where they are...not for questions of morality and all that, but sot hat aspiring BBers like me and many others on this board can know whaat to expect and how our heros got where they are.
Wyst
Don't delete your posts again, VDL, or you'll get a karmic buttkicking! LOL.
xoxo
Wyst
For what it's worth...
a gallery of what puports to be before and after pics of some notable pros.
http://members.easyspace.com/haegar/before.htm
Wyst
a gallery of what puports to be before and after pics of some notable pros.
http://members.easyspace.com/haegar/before.htm
Wyst
SteelWeaver
New member
VDL - I think your question is perfectly legit - I'd also like to know what's possible and what's not, so's I don't have to find out a few years down the line after countless hours of pain and deprivation, that my goals are only achievable with drugs I will not not take. Not that that means I'm not going to train and diet like a Vulcan (well, baby Vulcan in training) anyway ) ) - I'd just like to set realistic goals. I already have a resoundingly clear image of my body in 5 years, and I envision that through every training session, every meal, but it's not based on much knowledge of what can be achieved naturally.
There's so much talk about genetics in BB, but how can you really tell - I mean - look at those pics that wyst posted - for some of those women, would you really think, when you saw them "before", that this woman has the potential to be huge? Some of them look so average ...
) ) - I'd just like to set realistic goals. I already have a resoundingly clear image of my body in 5 years, and I envision that through every training session, every meal, but it's not based on much knowledge of what can be achieved naturally.There's so much talk about genetics in BB, but how can you really tell - I mean - look at those pics that wyst posted - for some of those women, would you really think, when you saw them "before", that this woman has the potential to be huge? Some of them look so average ...
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"Does it really matter?" depends....
If your goal is to get as big and freaky as possible, then no, it probably doesn't matter
however, if you are concerned about being healthy, fit and the best you can be within your body's parameters, then maybe it is an issue
I, for one, am always slightly disappointed when I learn that someone's physique was added by some artificial hormone enhancing method... I much more admire the natural muscle heads!
Granted dedicated training and diet are always necessary, but it still seems like bending the rules (whatever those are) to me
Just my opinion, if you use steroids or other testosterone enhancing agents and are happy with the results/effects then so be it... we are all individuals with the freedom to make our own choices... guess there is some value to those who push the envelope
If your goal is to get as big and freaky as possible, then no, it probably doesn't matter
however, if you are concerned about being healthy, fit and the best you can be within your body's parameters, then maybe it is an issue
I, for one, am always slightly disappointed when I learn that someone's physique was added by some artificial hormone enhancing method... I much more admire the natural muscle heads!
Granted dedicated training and diet are always necessary, but it still seems like bending the rules (whatever those are) to me
Just my opinion, if you use steroids or other testosterone enhancing agents and are happy with the results/effects then so be it... we are all individuals with the freedom to make our own choices... guess there is some value to those who push the envelope
Arioch
New member
There was a time when I would have said that at least the physique of #1 could not have been obtained without drugs. I would have been wrong. (and I was, in a similar situation) It does require one-in-a-million genetic structure.
#2 could be achieved without drugs, I have seen similar physiques without any use of AAS.
#3 could be, but would be very hard, and once again require superior genetics, but still not as difficult as #1.
As to the possiblity of any of the three using AAS, who knows?
I see a lot of people who use and cannot see the results.
#2 could be achieved without drugs, I have seen similar physiques without any use of AAS.
#3 could be, but would be very hard, and once again require superior genetics, but still not as difficult as #1.
As to the possiblity of any of the three using AAS, who knows?
I see a lot of people who use and cannot see the results.
My turn.
"I think it's important to know how people got where they are...not for questions of morality and all that, but sot hat aspiring BBers like me and many others on this board can know whaat to expect and how our heros got where they are."
Problem is, you'll never really know. Sure AAS use is clear in the BBs that look like genetically altered farm animals, but many times it is not. Setting goals and having heroes in bodybuilding is equal to setting yourself up for failure. The goals should be the best that YOU can be and be your own hero. Compare yourself to others and you are likely doomed.
"I'd also like to know what's possible and what's not, so's I don't have to find out a few years down the line after countless hours of pain and deprivation, that my goals are only achievable with drugs I will not take."
You've already answered that question. Again, if your goals are to look like someone else’s physique, they are not the right goals. What is, is what is for you, nothing more and nothing less.
"There's so much talk about genetics in BB, but how can you really tell"
Optimize your training and diet and give it several years. You'll know by then. Either you’ll still be fairly small and fat or fairly hard and lean. The answer will be clear, BUT make sure what you consider optimal is really optimal.
"however, if you are concerned about being healthy, fit and the best you can be within your body's parameters, then maybe it is an issue"
If you're concerned about being healthy and fit, then AAS use isn't an issue because you'll never have to worry about it.
"and I fear it may be a symptom of some other underlying pathology"
Yes, we always fear of someone else having a pathology. There isn't a person on this board or on this planet that doesn't have an underlying pathology that wouldn’t fit into some diagnostic criteria in the DSM-IV-TR. In the physique world, the fact is that we are not all created equal and cosmetic surgery and AAS are just some of the tools that can be used WITHIN REASON to equal the genetic playing field. Sure it's great to just be the best you can without doing anything, but that's not the world we live in. What is a pathology for one is normal for another. As long as what people do does not interfere with the rights, health, freedom or safety of others, then what they do shouldn't matter to anyone else. However, with some Prozac and psychotherapy you can look just like the overweight sedentary therapist and be happy.
"Don’t worry VDL...Vie felt like that before on this board too....and then they wonder why the board is slow"
No one knows who you are on this board, only you. What some of you perceive as personal attacks is nothing more than robust debate or a challenge of thought. Yes there are occasional flames, sometimes justified, other times not. But that's what happens on message boards. Don't condemn the board to find sanctuary from your self-esteem problems. Furthermore, before one starts whining about being attacked, ask for clarification of the response you get to your thread. Oftentimes as with emails, the interpretation of the message is very different than what was intended by the writer, or perhaps the whiners are just looking for a reason to whine?
"I see a lot of people who use and cannot see the results."
Absolutely. I wouldn't say any results, but far less than what would be expected.
I've trained natural women in their 40's who are harder, leaner and stronger than some of the figure or fitness girls I’ve seen in the gym in their 20's that use 10 mg/d of OX and are far more strict with diet. In fact, it you put the two side-by-side, you'd guess the natural ones to be the juicers and the juicers to be naturals. That’s genetics..........
In my opinion, the only time AAS should be an issue is when they are used to cheat in competitive sports, overt abuse (the altered farm animal look) and/or any use by adolescents. What healthy adults do for personal reasons is their business, and that’s why I stated earlier, that it really doesn’t matter, not that the thread didn't have significance.
W6
"I think it's important to know how people got where they are...not for questions of morality and all that, but sot hat aspiring BBers like me and many others on this board can know whaat to expect and how our heros got where they are."
Problem is, you'll never really know. Sure AAS use is clear in the BBs that look like genetically altered farm animals, but many times it is not. Setting goals and having heroes in bodybuilding is equal to setting yourself up for failure. The goals should be the best that YOU can be and be your own hero. Compare yourself to others and you are likely doomed.
"I'd also like to know what's possible and what's not, so's I don't have to find out a few years down the line after countless hours of pain and deprivation, that my goals are only achievable with drugs I will not take."
You've already answered that question. Again, if your goals are to look like someone else’s physique, they are not the right goals. What is, is what is for you, nothing more and nothing less.
"There's so much talk about genetics in BB, but how can you really tell"
Optimize your training and diet and give it several years. You'll know by then. Either you’ll still be fairly small and fat or fairly hard and lean. The answer will be clear, BUT make sure what you consider optimal is really optimal.
"however, if you are concerned about being healthy, fit and the best you can be within your body's parameters, then maybe it is an issue"
If you're concerned about being healthy and fit, then AAS use isn't an issue because you'll never have to worry about it.
"and I fear it may be a symptom of some other underlying pathology"
Yes, we always fear of someone else having a pathology. There isn't a person on this board or on this planet that doesn't have an underlying pathology that wouldn’t fit into some diagnostic criteria in the DSM-IV-TR. In the physique world, the fact is that we are not all created equal and cosmetic surgery and AAS are just some of the tools that can be used WITHIN REASON to equal the genetic playing field. Sure it's great to just be the best you can without doing anything, but that's not the world we live in. What is a pathology for one is normal for another. As long as what people do does not interfere with the rights, health, freedom or safety of others, then what they do shouldn't matter to anyone else. However, with some Prozac and psychotherapy you can look just like the overweight sedentary therapist and be happy.
"Don’t worry VDL...Vie felt like that before on this board too....and then they wonder why the board is slow"
No one knows who you are on this board, only you. What some of you perceive as personal attacks is nothing more than robust debate or a challenge of thought. Yes there are occasional flames, sometimes justified, other times not. But that's what happens on message boards. Don't condemn the board to find sanctuary from your self-esteem problems. Furthermore, before one starts whining about being attacked, ask for clarification of the response you get to your thread. Oftentimes as with emails, the interpretation of the message is very different than what was intended by the writer, or perhaps the whiners are just looking for a reason to whine?
"I see a lot of people who use and cannot see the results."
Absolutely. I wouldn't say any results, but far less than what would be expected.
I've trained natural women in their 40's who are harder, leaner and stronger than some of the figure or fitness girls I’ve seen in the gym in their 20's that use 10 mg/d of OX and are far more strict with diet. In fact, it you put the two side-by-side, you'd guess the natural ones to be the juicers and the juicers to be naturals. That’s genetics..........
In my opinion, the only time AAS should be an issue is when they are used to cheat in competitive sports, overt abuse (the altered farm animal look) and/or any use by adolescents. What healthy adults do for personal reasons is their business, and that’s why I stated earlier, that it really doesn’t matter, not that the thread didn't have significance.
W6
- Status
