Natural or Juiced!

[gurusevuppal]

hey bros,
i would like to know is it better to be natural or juiced? i have been searching into it for couple of weeks but got a mixed opinion. so many guys in my gym they been taking steroids(i think) but they havent made a much difference in their physics. where as, there are couple of guys who's been doing a power lifting routine and i am sure they dont steroids at all. they been putting on weight every week. is it jus genetics or something?

 

[Sculelos]

I would rather stay natural just due to being able to maintain the muscle much more easily. I only want to get to be a pretty good sized guy, but I want to stay there for along time even when not using any drugs.

Anyways you can gain a lot of muscle naturally with a good diet and training routine, steroids just speed up the process, but they usually come with a price and that I'm not willing to pay. (however minimal it might be)

 

[gurusevuppal]

I would rather stay natural just due to being able to maintain the muscle much more easily. I only want to get to be a pretty good sized guy, but I want to stay there for along time even when not using any drugs.

Anyways you can gain a lot of muscle naturally with a good diet and training routine, steroids just speed up the process, but they usually come with a price and that I'm not willing to pay. (however minimal it might be)

is that true a person can still maintain strength even after quiting if he's natural?

 

[deathdroprob]

Just wondering, Creatine isnt a steriod is it? I never thought it was until some things I have read as of late, and some guys in the Steroid forum saying they inject Creatine.

 

[stoked187]

Just wondering, Creatine isnt a steriod is it? I never thought it was until some things I have read as of late, and some guys in the Steroid forum saying they inject Creatine.

damn thats hardcore.inject creatine?

 

[almost-pro]

If you know someone that is using AAS and is not making gains... they are either using fakes, their diet and training SUCK, or they are just saying they are using and really aren't. training natural vs training while on are completely different. Weights are so much lighter while on and gains come quicker. However, your diet and training have to be good or you still aren't gonna get crap.

 

[captainahole]

I think the best answer for this is What is you goal?
If you just want to get big stay natural.
If you want to compete you then should consider the alternate.
I can't see putting your health at risk just to get big unless you have
a definite goal in mind.
Just my .02

 

[gurusevuppal]

I think the best answer for this is What is you goal?
If you just want to get big stay natural.
If you want to compete you then should consider the alternate.
I can't see putting your health at risk just to get big unless you have
a definite goal in mind.
Just my .02

true, my goals are just to get big naturally. i was jus considering as i saw heaps of people getting massive when they are juiced. so i jus felt jelous

 

[Varga]

is that true a person can still maintain strength even after quiting if he's natural?

yes and no

 

[Mercere]

is that true a person can still maintain strength even after quiting if he's natural?

If you don't use 'em, you lose 'em.

 

[al420]

Injecting Creatine... wow.

Keep in mind that 99.9% of the people on this board are just as lost as you. They do not compete in BB, PL or Weightlifting. They are gym rats looking for a better body. Nothing wrong with that by any means, but it is important to remember when getting advice online. Most of the peeps around here have VERY limited experience w/ AAS.

A couple weeks ago a user made a post about a dbol only cylce. THen a few days later he is replying to another thread about dbol like he is a expert. So he has never taken it, but is more than happy to share his expertise w/ you. I don;t know, maybe they are all staying at Holiday Inn Expresses.... (BTW, Dbol Only is a great first cycle... people that say 'oral only' cycles are bad are misinformed, and are not speaking from real world experience).

If you are happy with the way you look, or with your lifts and how they are progressing then stay natural. If you are not you should look into a few things prior to ridin' dirty...lol

1. Diet - most important. List yours, I am sure we can find flaws...

2. Training - are you following a Linear Progression model or some type of periodization? If you are not sure lay out your workouts and we can tweak them. Basically if you aren;t adding weight or reps each workout you will not grow - I don;t give a shit how much clean cals you eat. You have to FORCE your body to adapt.

3. Technique - full ROM is required to grow. Ever see a guy repping 405 on bench and not touching his chest.... benching is not a team sport. If you can;t getthe reps than you need to lower the weight. Same for squats and deads.

4. Lifts - NO ONE grows doing curls and kickbacks - period. People grow by Squatting, Deadlifting, Benching, Chins, and Rows... in that order. Period. Feed, Lift, Rest, Repeat.

 

[deathdroprob]

Yeah I rad it int the steriods forum some guy injects creatine with a proper steriod. That shit sounds fucked up

 

[time]

I think the best answer for this is What is you goal?
If you just want to get big stay natural.
If you want to compete you then should consider the alternate.
I can't see putting your health at risk just to get big unless you have
a definite goal in mind.
Just my .02

Great Point!

 

[PoweredUp]

Lifts - NO ONE grows doing curls and kickbacks - period. People grow by Squatting, Deadlifting, Benching, Chins, and Rows... in that order. Period. Feed, Lift, Rest, Repeat.

Al, I believe you mentioned previously that you do a 4-day routine where you alternate push and pull days. I actually prefer the push/pull split myself, but I was wondering if you could post what your typical routine might look like? I'm always looking to improve mine...

 

[al420]

Al, I believe you mentioned previously that you do a 4-day routine where you alternate push and pull days. I actually prefer the push/pull split myself, but I was wondering if you could post what your typical routine might look like? I'm always looking to improve mine...

Monday: Heavy Pull

Power Clean: 8x3
Deads: 5x5
Face Pulls: 5x15-20
Bicep Curl: 4x12

Tuesday: Light Push

Flat Bench: 3x5, 3x3, 1x2 - I mix this up a bit
Snatch Grip BTN Press: 5x5
Front Squat: 5x5

Thur: Light Pull

DB SNatch: 5x5
Rack Pull: 5x5
Face Pulls: 100 reps w/ very little rest

Fri: Heavy Push

Push Press: 5x3
DB Incline: 3x12
Back Squat: 5x5, 1x3

 

[PoweredUp]

Are face pulls similar to bent-over rows except that you pull the bar to just under your chin?

Monday: Heavy Pull

Power Clean: 8x3
Deads: 5x5
Face Pulls: 5x15-20
Bicep Curl: 4x12

Tuesday: Light Push

Flat Bench: 3x5, 3x3, 1x2 - I mix this up a bit
Snatch Grip BTN Press: 5x5
Front Squat: 5x5

Thur: Light Pull

DB SNatch: 5x5
Rack Pull: 5x5
Face Pulls: 100 reps w/ very little rest

Fri: Heavy Push

Push Press: 5x3
DB Incline: 3x12
Back Squat: 5x5, 1x3

 

[al420]

http://www.afboard.com/forum/anabolic-discussion/206513-blood-test-came-back.html

bottom of the page

 

[gurusevuppal]

Injecting Creatine... wow.

Keep in mind that 99.9% of the people on this board are just as lost as you. They do not compete in BB, PL or Weightlifting. They are gym rats looking for a better body. Nothing wrong with that by any means, but it is important to remember when getting advice online. Most of the peeps around here have VERY limited experience w/ anabolic androgenic steroids.

A couple weeks ago a user made a post about a Dianabol - methandrostenolone - only cylce. THen a few days later he is replying to another thread about Dianabol - methandrostenolone - like he is a expert. So he has never taken it, but is more than happy to share his expertise w/ you. I don;t know, maybe they are all staying at Holiday Inn Expresses.... (BTW, Dbol Only is a great first cycle... people that say 'oral only' cycles are bad are misinformed, and are not speaking from real world experience).

If you are happy with the way you look, or with your lifts and how they are progressing then stay natural. If you are not you should look into a few things prior to ridin' dirty...lol

1. Diet - most important. List yours, I am sure we can find flaws...

2. Training - are you following a Linear Progression model or some type of periodization? If you are not sure lay out your workouts and we can tweak them. Basically if you aren;t adding weight or reps each workout you will not grow - I don;t give a shit how much clean cals you eat. You have to FORCE your body to adapt.

3. Technique - full ROM is required to grow. Ever see a guy repping 405 on bench and not touching his chest.... benching is not a team sport. If you can;t getthe reps than you need to lower the weight. Same for squats and deads.

4. Lifts - NO ONE grows doing curls and kickbacks - period. People grow by Squatting, Deadlifting, Benching, Chins, and Rows... in that order. Period. Feed, Lift, Rest, Repeat.

thanks bro, really appreciate it. so here's are somethings you asked for:
first of all, i am better in every workout than before. i mean in terms of reps and weight. iam currently doing needsize 5x5 version here's my workout:

tues:
shoulder,forearms & legs

Legs:
squats 5x5
calf raises 2x8-10
leg curls 2x8-10( or i am thinkin of doing leg presses, wat u guys think?)

Shoulders:
BTN barbell press 5x5
lateral raises 2x8-10
rear delt raises 2x8-10
shrugs: 3x5
arm curls 2x8-10

thurs
Back & biceps

Back
Deadlifts: 4x5
Rows: 3 x 8-10
pulldowns 3x 8-10

Biceps:
Ez bar curls : 3x5
dumbell curls: 2x 8-10


sat:
Chest & Triceps

chest :
Flat bench : 5x5
incline press: 2x8-10
flyes: 2x8-10

Triceps:
close grip press: 3x5
triceps ext: 3x 8-10

as fas as my diet concerns, I eat like 5-6 times and whenver i am hungry. but now i am getting sticking points on compound exercises. any kind of help would be appreciated

 

[Varga]

Switch to a different exercise for that body part, start with medium weights build up then when that sticks then move back to what you were doing before.
Occasionaly I use a 4 week rotation of exercises in which I would incorporate something like this for example:
Let's say chest,
Week 1 flat bench
Week 2 incline bench
Week 3 Incline DB
Week 4 Decline

Then back to flat bench. It worked very well for me

 

[nzrodney]

hey bros,
i would like to know is it better to be natural or juiced? i have been searching into it for couple of weeks but got a mixed opinion. so many guys in my gym they been taking steroids(i think) but they havent made a much difference in their physics. where as, there are couple of guys who's been doing a power lifting routine and i am sure they dont steroids at all. they been putting on weight every week. is it jus genetics or something?

No disrespect Bro, but researching the use of AAS in two weeks is not going to give you time to form a proper opinion. The key to understanding the use of steriods in BBing or PLing is to realise that they are only part of the equation to gaining mass & strength. Those guys in your gym that may or may not be using gear, may well not have the other factors in place like, diet & nutrition, training programs & intensity, rest & recovery, goals & ambitions, & the physicological aspects (the head thing).

 

[Hybridtheory2o]

I decided to stay natural for an extended period of time. I just dont feel comfortable with my life changing so much so fast right now to throw that in the mix unless I had some supervision which I dont. I will say I do just fine naturally. Could be genetics as well with my diet and training but I usually smash the weights pretty good.

You can get pretty big and ripped naturally to my understanding.

 

[gurusevuppal]

No disrespect Bro, but researching the use of anabolic androgenic steroids in two weeks is not going to give you time to form a proper opinion. The key to understanding the use of steriods in BBing or PLing is to realise that they are only part of the equation to gaining mass & strength. Those guys in your gym that may or may not be using gear, may well not have the other factors in place like, diet & nutrition, training programs & intensity, rest & recovery, goals & ambitions, & the physicological aspects (the head thing).

true

 

[the_alcatraz]

Being juiced is way too tempting....if you get on the juice once, you're hooked!

 

[Zuperman]

Check this out guys, rate it, do you think its natural or juiced??
PICS!!!!
Its a sticky!

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/s...s-special-thanks-those-who-helped-574561.html

 

[makeingains]

and then you die.

 

[Elementality]

Injecting Creatine... wow.

Keep in mind that 99.9% of the people on this board are just as lost as you. They do not compete in BB, PL or Weightlifting. They are gym rats looking for a better body. Nothing wrong with that by any means, but it is important to remember when getting advice online. Most of the peeps around here have VERY limited experience w/ AAS.

A couple weeks ago a user made a post about a dbol only cylce. THen a few days later he is replying to another thread about dbol like he is a expert. So he has never taken it, but is more than happy to share his expertise w/ you. I don;t know, maybe they are all staying at Holiday Inn Expresses.... (BTW, Dbol Only is a great first cycle... people that say 'oral only' cycles are bad are misinformed, and are not speaking from real world experience).

If you are happy with the way you look, or with your lifts and how they are progressing then stay natural. If you are not you should look into a few things prior to ridin' dirty...lol

1. Diet - most important. List yours, I am sure we can find flaws...

2. Training - are you following a Linear Progression model or some type of periodization? If you are not sure lay out your workouts and we can tweak them. Basically if you aren;t adding weight or reps each workout you will not grow - I don;t give a shit how much clean cals you eat. You have to FORCE your body to adapt.

3. Technique - full ROM is required to grow. Ever see a guy repping 405 on bench and not touching his chest.... benching is not a team sport. If you can;t getthe reps than you need to lower the weight. Same for squats and deads.

4. Lifts - NO ONE grows doing curls and kickbacks - period. People grow by Squatting, Deadlifting, Benching, Chins, and Rows... in that order. Period. Feed, Lift, Rest, Repeat.

Hey, I was just wondering if you could explain the importance of this order. Quote "Squatting, Deadlifting, Benching, Chins, and Rows... in that order". Do you mean in this order as if ranking them in their significance of developing muscle growth, or do you mean this as a schedule of which workout to do first, then second, then third etc.. while you're at the gym. Like, the first thing you should do when u walk in the gym and warm up is squat, then deadlift, then bench, then chins, and finish the workout with rows.

Im on a 5x5 program, and its doing great for me on looks and strength. But, I lift in this order Bench/squat/row/deadlift.

 

[Varga]

Being juiced is way too tempting....if you get on the juice once, you're hooked!

It's like fucking a hot model...after that it's all downhill....LOL

 

[the_alcatraz]

natural is obsolete...by chosing to be natural, you're already giving 90% of bodybuilders an edge over you

 

[F117A Active Stealth]

hey bros,
i would like to know is it better to be natural or juiced? i have been searching into it for couple of weeks but got a mixed opinion. so many guys in my gym they been taking steroids(i think) but they havent made a much difference in their physics. where as, there are couple of guys who's been doing a power lifting routine and i am sure they dont steroids at all. they been putting on weight every week. is it jus genetics or something?

Genetics is part of it. It could also be that the "steroid" guys are using fake stuff, or maybe it's real but their diet is so horrible that they aren't gaining anything

is that true a person can still maintain strength even after quiting if he's natural?

Everyone has a genetic natural limit. If the drugs helped you reach your limit, when you go off (provided your natural system kicks in again) you keep your strength. Otherwise if you became massively strong beyond your natural limit, you will fall to your natural limit, whatever that may be.

Just wondering, Creatine isnt a steriod is it? I never thought it was until some things I have read as of late, and some guys in the Steroid forum saying they inject Creatine.

Not a steroid, but I wouldn't inject it, especially the stuff that's already liquid from the factory (junk)

A couple weeks ago a user made a post about a Dianabol - methandrostenolone - only cylce. THen a few days later he is replying to another thread about Dianabol - methandrostenolone - like he is a expert. So he has never taken it, but is more than happy to share his expertise w/ you. I don;t know, maybe they are all staying at Holiday Inn Expresses.... (BTW, Dbol Only is a great first cycle... people that say 'oral only' cycles are bad are misinformed, and are not speaking from real world experience).

LMAO like the rodeo clown :

4. Lifts - NO ONE grows doing curls and kickbacks - period. People grow by Squatting, Deadlifting, Benching, Chins, and Rows... in that order. Period. Feed, Lift, Rest, Repeat.

Agreed 110%

If you are happy with the way you look, or with your lifts and how they are progressing then stay natural. If you are not you should look into a few things prior to ridin' dirty...lol

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the most common reasons for people to want to get big and lean are the following:

1. To get girls/get layed

2. To become intimidating to enemies/perceived enemies

3. To excel at some specific sport.

4. To show off to others their superiority

Soooo........

If all you care about is getting layed, forget steroids PERIOD!! You don't need them, as long as you are ripped (even with 12" arms) they will think you are HUUUGE and are more likely to find you attractive enough to sleep with.

If you think you will become menacing and intimitating, then you will probably have to use the drugs. If you are happy with being in the top 70% of intimidating physiques, you can get away with mild cycles. If you want freaky huge size and strength, you will have to abuse your body with drugs like crazy. Personally I rather carry a gun nowadays, since having 24" arms won't protect you from the crazy with a 9mm.

Pretty much the same applies to any professional sport. You can no longer compete unless you are on the sauce.

As for showing off, depends who you want to show off to. If it's the average joe, forget steroids, just get ripped and that will impress the hell out of everyone. If you want to show off in the gym, prepare to abuse your body with drugs, since you'll have to be bigger and leaner than 80% of the gym, and if you want to be in the top 90% start finding out Ronnie Coleman's drug cycling, and start saving for the $$$ the drugs will cost ya to do it.

 

[the_alcatraz]

and if you want to be in the top 90% start finding out Ronnie Coleman's drug cycling, and start saving for the $$$ the drugs will cost ya to do it.

LOL

 

[al420]

Hey, I was just wondering if you could explain the importance of this order. Quote "Squatting, Deadlifting, Benching, Chins, and Rows... in that order". Do you mean in this order as if ranking them in their significance of developing muscle growth, or do you mean this as a schedule of which workout to do first, then second, then third etc.. while you're at the gym. Like, the first thing you should do when u walk in the gym and warm up is squat, then deadlift, then bench, then chins, and finish the workout with rows.

Im on a 5x5 program, and its doing great for me on looks and strength. But, I lift in this order Bench/squat/row/deadlift.

I am merely stating that these are the only needed lifts. Curls literally are for girls.

 

[jumpmaster82]

gear is awesome in moderation and if used properly. and creatine is not a steroid, i cant even believe that came up on a fitness sit. and whoever said they injected creatine was either just joking, or they are a certified retard.

 

[gurusevuppal]

cant believe it, this thread is still goin onnn!

 

[TheOak84]

Depends on your goals. Also, if your body can handle steroids. Most people cant. I would work out and lift hard for a good 5 years before i touch anything. Ive lost some muscle mass due to personal reasons, i might jump on something just to get my weight back up, i still havent decided, who knows. Still, im all natural.

 

[DanBoyle]

I am all natural all the way... Think about how dangerous it is adding hormones into your body that should not be there...

From the first post... genetics play a huge role, too big of a role. Just learn to eat and lift and have fun... maybe some creatine if it works for you and you will get huge. Steroid free.

 

[Nick_Escalantes]

I'm natural, but if my athletic ability affected my paycheck like pro athletes, I would take steroids in a heartbeat. If I ever make it to the pros, I'll start injecting.

 

[silverskyline]

WTF creatine a steriod? Do they know the defination of a steriod or AAS?

Injecting it... Ok never heard of that I suppose it could be possable in some deluted liquid formulas but I am about 99.9 percent sure that dosnt exist and makes no since because of the process of which your body utalizes it naturally.

 

[gurusevuppal]

WTF creatine a steriod? Do they know the defination of a steriod or AAS?

Injecting it... Ok never heard of that I suppose it could be possable in some deluted liquid formulas but I am about 99.9 percent sure that dosnt exist and makes no since because of the process of which your body utalizes it naturally.

agreed!

 

[Cal_21]

Just wondering, Creatine isnt a steriod is it? I never thought it was until some things I have read as of late, and some guys in the Steroid forum saying they inject Creatine.

lol wtf?

 

[binö]

meh, i'm still a nancy natty...gains have def slowed down over the years
i proly should hit a light cycle
lord knows i've put the time in and my age is correct (30)
i just don't wanna fuck up my perfect health and that's why i am hesitant

 

[Cal_21]

meh, i'm still a nancy natty...gains have def slowed down over the years
i proly should hit a light cycle
lord knows i've put the time in and my age is correct (30)
i just don't wanna fuck up my perfect health and that's why i am hesitant

Wait until you're certain orb.

 

[Cal_21]

Wait until you're certain orb.

p.s You seem like a pretty strong dude for your size. So when you start I'm sure you'll see some nice gains.

 

[PhillyPA#1]

juice will get you through plateaus. Your body can only get so big w/o juice. I think its the way to go.

 

[binö]

juice will get you through plateaus. Your body can only get so big w/o juice. I think its the way to go.

i'm afraid once i sauce i'll never get high from natty training again...while i've def hit a size plateau, i'm still getting slight strength increases and the thrill of lifting is still huge to me.
it's like going to a rave sober...fun as hell, but once you roll at a rave, you'll never enjoy a sober rave again

 

[Mavafanculo]

Yeah I rad it int the steriods forum some guy injects creatine with a proper steriod. That shit sounds fucked up

link please?

 

[the_alcatraz]

Any news on the link?

 

[Tatyana]

'Look at me, I'm NOT on steroids'



Competing - there are natural federations, some natural for life.

Some of the competitors are pretty amazing.

It does depend what country you live in. It does seem like if you live in the US and don't compete in the NPC, then it doesn't have as much credibility.

I do think it is a good idea to figure out what diet works for you and to train nattie for a few years before you go on the gear.

It also gives you a lot of time to do research.

There are guys/girls that do gear and don't get anywhere, and there are guys/girls that don't do gear and look like they do.

A lot of it is down to genetics, how big you will get naturally.

It is also true that a lot of girls don't like really big guys, so being TOO muscular can put some off.

 

[Caleb's Tree]

hey bros,
i would like to know is it better to be natural or juiced? i have been searching into it for couple of weeks but got a mixed opinion. so many guys in my gym they been taking steroids(i think) but they havent made a much difference in their physics. where as, there are couple of guys who's been doing a power lifting routine and i am sure they dont steroids at all. they been putting on weight every week. is it jus genetics or something?

I am natural and still making gains, though maybe not like I wish I could. I am 43 fricking years old, and look great imo. I am getting older though, so for me it might be time to think of supplementing my hormones. So far my God given genetics have served me well.

I am curious about anabolics and probably will give it a whirl sometime in the future once I am confident in my knowledge and use of the substances. If I ever decide to do AAS, it would only be infequently, and only to push through some platueas. For now, I am content to take legal supplements.

 

[ExtraMile]

Lifts - NO ONE grows doing curls and kickbacks - period. People grow by Squatting, Deadlifting, Benching, Chins, and Rows... in that order.QUOTE]

By chins, do u mean chin-ups/pull-ups?


im a n00b

 

[al420]

Lifts - NO ONE grows doing curls and kickbacks - period. People grow by Squatting, Deadlifting, Benching, Chins, and Rows... in that order.QUOTE]

By chins, do u mean chin-ups/pull-ups?


im a n00b

Either is fine - just stay away from isolation work and you should get big assuming you eat and sleep.

 

[Burpees]

Monday: Heavy Pull

Power Clean: 8x3
Deads: 5x5
Face Pulls: 5x15-20
Bicep Curl: 4x12

Tuesday: Light Push

Flat Bench: 3x5, 3x3, 1x2 - I mix this up a bit
Snatch Grip BTN Press: 5x5
Front Squat: 5x5

Thur: Light Pull

DB SNatch: 5x5
Rack Pull: 5x5
Face Pulls: 100 reps w/ very little rest

Fri: Heavy Push

Push Press: 5x3
DB Incline: 3x12
Back Squat: 5x5, 1x3

What are face pulls? I think they are high seated rows? The link you provided is dead. This seems like a bit of a light routine. Are you still doing this? I do a push-pull routine also but it like it because I get a full body pump and it works as cardio too..

Any suggestions?

 

[jstarr37]

why would you even go to this website if you are always natural. Most of the forums are completly worthless - even counter productive - if you are natural all the time.

 

[enigma4dub]

why would you even go to this website if you are always natural. Most of the forums are completly worthless - even counter productive - if you are natural all the time.

this might be the most ignorant statement ive heard to date. the training information i have gain directly from this site. as well as learning, from here about others sources such as crossfit and elitefts has been invaluable. and im all natural all the time.

 

[1999TL]

why would you even go to this website if you are always natural. Most of the forums are completly worthless - even counter productive - if you are natural all the time.

sure.

 

[pmd287]

Alot of people ask me why i don't shoot. I only like doing things right, and honestly from everything i've learned from this board doing cycles right is a huge expenditure of time. I can lift hard, get enough sleep, and even eat well without a huge amount of stress or cash. But to add steroids to the mix doesn't make things easier. It may make the muscle gaining easier, but it seems so stressful. A cycle starts, which is probably an amazing feeling, but when it gets near its close (provided there have been no complications) you have to dedicate a large amount of your time to making sure your natural hormones come back. If you fuck any of that up along the way, you could be worse off than before, or just feel plain miserable.

So, until i know without a doubt that i have been giving 110% everyday in the gym no excuses, am in the best health i will ever possibly be in, have a spot on diet, the cash, and the time to do enough research to feel comfortable not only putting steroids in my body but having a perfect PCT i will not do steroids, as tempting as it may be.

But without this board i would not know any of this, so i think this board is the perfect place for even the completely natural, no creatine, no nothing guy, because it allows them to become informed, and not get their advice from Bubba at the local gym who has never heard of PCT and once upon a time gained 40 lbs in 8 weeks and didn't lose any of it.

 

[bluejay]

i'm afraid once i sauce i'll never get high from natty training again...while i've def hit a size plateau, i'm still getting slight strength increases and the thrill of lifting is still huge to me.
it's like going to a rave sober...fun as hell, but once you roll at a rave, you'll never enjoy a sober rave again

Perfect analogy!!

 

[joe d]

every one is search of massive size will come to a point in their hard work and dedication where they hit that wall that they cant get through (nature). you will only get so big naturaly. if this size or smaller is your goal then hands down natural is the only option, any thing else would be stupid. but when you are like meand have been busting your ass spending thousands of dollars on food and supliments for years making great gains and all the sudden it just stops, you cant grow for six straight months. you hit your natural limits and you are 100lbs shy of your dream you have to decide give up the dream? or continue the path you where on to go pro with the help of aas?

 

[02gixxersix]

Monday: Heavy Pull

Power Clean: 8x3
Deads: 5x5
Face Pulls: 5x15-20
Bicep Curl: 4x12

Tuesday: Light Push

Flat Bench: 3x5, 3x3, 1x2 - I mix this up a bit
Snatch Grip BTN Press: 5x5
Front Squat: 5x5

Thur: Light Pull

DB SNatch: 5x5
Rack Pull: 5x5
Face Pulls: 100 reps w/ very little rest

Fri: Heavy Push

Push Press: 5x3
DB Incline: 3x12
Back Squat: 5x5, 1x3

I like the way that's set up. I think I may give it a try for a few months. Thanks for posting.

 

[02gixxersix]

And if I remember correctly there was talk about injectable creatine a few years ago on this site. I'm guessing nothing ever came of it or it was a myth since I never heard anything else about it.

 

[DZLS]

been natural since the start and don´t see any reason to change...

trying to become an LEO pretty much makes my decision easy, but even if i wasn't i don't see myself using the stuff...

 

[Hellawulf]

hey bros,
i would like to know is it better to be natural or juiced? i have been searching into it for couple of weeks but got a mixed opinion. so many guys in my gym they been taking steroids(i think) but they havent made a much difference in their physics. where as, there are couple of guys who's been doing a power lifting routine and i am sure they dont steroids at all. they been putting on weight every week. is it jus genetics or something?

A few things: you mean Physique not physics (I hope they aren't changing physics or we will all die from implosion)

Those people who are taking steriods and aren't seeing the gains, either shouldn't be taking steriods and or are doing a bad workout routine...

Those big guys who aren't on the roids that are seeing the gains, have their diet down pack, sleeping well, and are like you said doing a "powerlifting routine" (which that is probably up for debate considering apparently for someone like me who is trying to get that body builder type body I too am doing what you would probably consider a "powerlifting routine")

- A Natural (my long term goal is 230-240 with a 9% bf - and I think it is within reach within the next few years)

 

[JDid23]

where is the pride in your gains if you're taking steroids?

 

[ExtraMile]

where is the pride in your gains if you're taking steroids?

you have to work harder on roids: you hit the gym more often for longer because you wont overtrain, you have your diet nailed down so you get your complete moneys worth out of the roids and do the best you can on them. And people arnt on roids 24/7 so its not as if their gains came only from buying roids...

 

[JDid23]

you have to work harder on roids: you hit the gym more often for longer because you wont overtrain, you have your diet nailed down so you get your complete moneys worth out of the roids and do the best you can on them. And people arnt on roids 24/7 so its not as if their gains came only from buying roids...

to be fair that was in may................

 

[CitizenKane]

I just read through this thread and I can't believe my eyes, are there seriously people here asking if Creatine is a steroid? Talking about injecting it?

 

[Tblock1]

I just read through this thread and I can't believe my eyes, are there seriously people here asking if Creatine is a steroid? Talking about injecting it?

Hells yeah dude creatine is the shit I inject 50g a day 7 days a week bro bro, isn't the like the most legit of cycles? I've heard it makes you helsa swole huh?

 

[binö]

creatine o-ring shots have increased my reverse-one-handed-cable-anal-squeeze by 10%
and orginally i voted in this as natty...but now i'm bicycling

 

[future]

hey bros,
i would like to know is it better to be natural or juiced? i have been searching into it for couple of weeks but got a mixed opinion. so many guys in my gym they been taking steroids(i think) but they havent made a much difference in their physics. where as, there are couple of guys who's been doing a power lifting routine and i am sure they dont steroids at all. they been putting on weight every week. is it jus genetics or something?

This certainly hits the lame observations award.

None of that shoulder matter. Its about diet, training smart and being patient.

 

[InGreatShape]

It's all natural for me. I don't see the point in taking roids. Its just like cheating in my book. Cheaters never win.

 

[KenBraggofCarroltonGA]

anyone serious always comes around. first it's-i want stay natural(uh huh). then it is-i just want to do oral only(uh huh). then its-can i do a deca only cycle?(yeah-uh huh). If working out is part of your lifestyle then you will come around.

 

[*ebony*]

Hells yeah dude creatine is the shit I inject 50g a day 7 days a week bro bro, isn't the like the most legit of cycles? I've heard it makes you helsa swole huh?

lol

 

[imafuturebodybuilder]

I havent juiced yet, but i will. i believe that you only get one chance to live your life. So what would be the difference if you lived up to 75 with a bad physique, and would not have any fun. or you would (hypothetically speaking) lived to 70 with the use of roids, but had a great physique and lots and lots of fun!?

i dont want to even imagine myself in the 70'd what kind of life is it when u cannot run or lift? or be extreme! sigh!

 

[CitizenKane]

anyone serious always comes around. first it's-i want stay natural(uh huh). then it is-i just want to do oral only(uh huh). then its-can i do a deca only cycle?(yeah-uh huh). If working out is part of your lifestyle then you will come around.

Agreed. I'm starting to realise this myself. When I first started training, steroids were just completely beyond my comprehension, I didn't even think about them.

Then the more I read about training etc, inevitably the more I read about steroids, but I still said I would never do them.

Now I'm starting my first cycle, Dbol for 6 weeks. I don't ever plan on injecting (but how many times have you heard that before? LOL)

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Juicing just takes it to another level.

If you are serious about lifting and you don't drink much alcohol or smoke and you eat good then why not?

Educating oneself is a powerful thing.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Gonna add a couple insights and add to what a few have already mentioned.

First off I don't consider using steroids cheating. In pro sports a large percentage of players are on them. In bodybuilding shows that aren't specifically natural you can guarantee anyone in the top 10 are on them.

People are always looking for the perfect routine, the perfect supplements, the perfect post-workout shake yadda yadda. Everyone is always looking for another edge. Steroids are that edge. The most effective edge you can use after quality training, good food and sleep.

Most guys that train consistently, not these peckerwoods that go on a cycle for spring break or some bullshit train harder than your average guy. They want to get their money's worth. They eat more protein to make sure they are getting the most out of the aas. To use a good example I specifically watch my salt intake as I tend to notice minor bp increases if I'm too liberal with the salt while on. This is a benefit as my body says you may be able to use excessive salt while off, but you should think twice while on. This has led me to believe that using excessive salt in general was ignorance on my part and not paying attention to my body.

People take anti-depressants left and right. Getting lipo suction or a boob job nowadays is nothing. Even 18 year old girls with well to do parents are getting them. Botox, facial reconstruction. Cholesterol meds, bp meds, bagillions of meds.

So wtf is wrong with responsible aas use? I agree kids and teenagers should not be using them, but imo most guys are pretty much fully grown as far as stature is concerned by 21. I would say that if they ever legalized aas(never gonna happen in my lifetime) that having a minimum age of 25 would be decent. That and having doctor supervision for very reasonable rates. Good clean injects, periodic monitoring. building bigger, healthier bodies. Read frickin science fiction books. I'd bet money 100 years from now people are going to be chem'd out the ass.

Some people say that you should train the same when on as off. My experience is limited as I have only done a handful of cycles, but my experience tells me that volume and intensity or both should go up on cycle. You can tolerate more workload and a higher percentage of your 1 rep max while on.

The positive benefits of aas used in moderation outweigh the negatives imo when you eat decently, sleep decent and train hard. If you don't drink or smoke and rarely use any other recreational drugs unless you have tendencies towards high bp or cholesterol issues I would go out on a limb and guarantee you are healthier than your natural buds that maybe don't even treat their bodies bad, but don't eat so good and drink at least once a week.

That's my limited opinion on it.

 

[ExtraMile]

if you have to take drugs to reach your goal then fair enough its your choice

 

[DRXY]

When I was in my 20'S I was 5'11" 235 7% BF. Now I am 42 and have alot of health issues and it was caused from a decade of steroid use.If I hadnt of used steroids I still could have been 220 and pretty damn strong. So was it worth it ? I say if you are going pro in any sport and need the extra edge to make millions and thats important to you then go for it. If you want to be strong and live a long healthy life learn proper nutrition and lift heavy compound movements and do cardio.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

One thing to factor in there was did you abuse steroids? Specifically did you take very large amounts?

Also did you eat healthy? Use olive oil, fish oil, take vitamins etc.

Did you do cardio back then?

You can definitely hurt your health with improper use of steroids, but I also know guys that have been on more or less for 20+ years and are in superb health.

 

[DRXY]

I was in the military and didnt take care of myself. Also I had no idea about proper nutrition. I drank way to much alcohal. Now I am in to eating right and getting sleep. Back then after 2 hours of working out it was to the showers and out to the clubs looking for ladies. So yes you have a valid point. Back then I didnt get but 3 to 4 hours of sleep a day. If someone decides to take the next step just please be smart about it. No more than 3 anadrol a day

 

[WorkoutGoods]

I feel it there's more satisfaction in being all natural. Of course, there's also the instant gratification in juicing up.

 

[CitizenKane]

if you have to take drugs to reach your goal then fair enough its your choice

Fairly naiive attitude there.

You're a powerlifter right? Did Lee Moran HAVE to take drugs to achieve a 1000lb squat? YES.

Nobody in a tested fed has ever squatted 1000lb. So if you are a powerlifter and your goal is to compete with the best powerlifters in the world, then yes you do need to take drugs.

 

[CitizenKane]

Of course, there's also the instant gratification in juicing up.

"Instant"? Are you sure you're not getting confused with synthol?