More bloodwork round 2, totally shut down

[tical]

26 y/o male

LH <0.3
FSH <0.3
Prolactin 6.6
Testosterone 54 (yes, 54)
Testosterone, Free, Direct 7.0
IGF-1 139
Growth Hormone, Serum 0.1

So it looks like I'm completely shut down, 2 weeks ago my test was 112... this completely SUCKS

I need a solid PCT, anyone have some suggestions?

I was thinking 1000iu HCG M-W-F for 3 weeks along w/ 20mg nolvadex ED for 5 weeks

Any other recommendations?

 

[b_light]

damn dude what and how long were you on.

 

[Mavafanculo]

tical - put in the reference ranges for the test

 

[jumpmaster82]

Goddamn bro you are shutdown. Yea that pct looks ok, but as low as you are I think you need something else. I'm Gona research this a little bit and I'll pm you with a suggestion bro.

 

[Mr. Black]

How long since you finished your cycle?

 

[tical]

here are the ref ranges, sorry i forgot those:

lh - leutenizing hormone - <0.3 (20 - 69 yrs range = 1.5 - 9.3)
FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - <0.3 (older than 15 yrs range = 1.4 - 18.1)
Prolactin 6.6 (range = 2.1 - 17.7)
Testosterone 54 (range = 241 - 827)
Testosterone, Free, Direct 7.0 (range = 6.6 - 26.5)
IGF-1 139 (range for 26-30 yrs = 117 - 329)
Growth Hormone, Serum 0.1 (range = 0.0 - 6.0)

last shot of test was on oct 21 and it was only 125mg of sust

i was 5 weeks into a 700mg primo / wk cycle supplimented w/ 125mg of sust starting week 3

i had 0 pct (all of my goods were ganked) so i'm ass out right now


i think i must have had some issues from previous cycles and a not so great pct... my cycle 3 months before this was 12 weeks 500mg test, 400mg deca (deca only for 8 weeks), .5 mg dostinex twice weekly

i've probably been shut down for a while now and just aggrivated it by continuing things w/o getting the proper bloodwork or waiting too long

i hope im not fried completely cuz that would suck

i'm just assed out on any goods right now, 0 connections (im not asking for a source)

 

[Mr. Black]

here are the ref ranges, sorry i forgot those:

lh - leutenizing hormone - - leutenizing hormone - <0.3 (20 - 69 yrs range = 1.5 - 9.3)
FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - - follicle stimulating hormone - <0.3 (older than 15 yrs range = 1.4 - 18.1)
Prolactin 6.6 (range = 2.1 - 17.7)
Testosterone 54 (range = 241 - 827)
Testosterone, Free, Direct 7.0 (range = 6.6 - 26.5)
IGF-1 139 (range for 26-30 yrs = 117 - 329)
Growth Hormone, Serum 0.1 (range = 0.0 - 6.0)

last shot of test was on oct 21 and it was only 125mg of Sustanon

i was 5 weeks into a 700mg Primobolan - methenolone - / wk cycle supplimented w/ 125mg of Sustanon starting week 3

i had 0 PCT - post cycle therapy - (all of my goods were ganked) so i'm ass out right now


i think i must have had some issues from previous cycles and a not so great PCT - post cycle therapy - ... my cycle 3 months before this was 12 weeks 500mg test, 400mg Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - (Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - only for 8 weeks), .5 mg dostinex twice weekly

i've probably been shut down for a while now and just aggrivated it by continuing things w/o getting the proper bloodwork or waiting too long

i hope im not fried completely cuz that would suck

i'm just assed out on any goods right now, 0 connections (im not asking for a source)

Definitely looks like you are suffering from some secondary hypogonadism related issues (low LH/FSH). If I were you I would get on some Derma Sustain, run it for a couple months then get tested again. If you are still shut down, might be best to see an endo. Good luck man.

 

[makaveli25]

try this bro
HCG 1000iu eod for 3wks
AIFM 2 sprays ed for 6wks
proviron 50mg ed for 6wks
clomid 100mg ed for 1wk then 50mg ed for 5wks
Nolva 20mg ed for 6wks

i hear from a very respected man on another board this has brought back people after being on for up to 8 months at a time.. once a i get everything gathered im gonna run this to get my baseline compelelty back to normal... why cant you get clomid and nolva and some hcg they have them at research sites bro.. this is one invenstment you cant fail to make.. theres no excuse why you cant go to one of the sponsors sites on any bodybuilding board and get more than half the stuff i listed

 

[makaveli25]

ive got a few questions for you bro.. how do you feel? have you lost a lot of weight? how is your strenght..

 

[Varga]

26 y/o male

lh - leutenizing hormone - <0.3
FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - <0.3
Prolactin 6.6
Testosterone 54 (yes, 54)
Testosterone, Free, Direct 7.0
IGF-1 139
Growth Hormone, Serum 0.1

So it looks like I'm completely shut down, 2 weeks ago my test was 112... this completely SUCKS

I need a solid PCT - post cycle therapy - , anyone have some suggestions?

I was thinking 1000iu HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - M-W-F for 3 weeks along w/ 20mg nolvadex ED for 5 weeks

Any other recommendations?

With these #s so low how is your training going in the gym? Do you feel run down or pretty normal .....just curious

As for PCT you may need more than what you mentioned,
I would do:
-clomid 1 week @ 100-150mg then week 2-5 @ 50mg ED
-Nolva 1-6 or longer 20mg ED
-HCG take as many shuts as needed till you feel da boyz are back
750iu EOD or E3D will be plenty
-Take the normal supps (fish/flax oil, potassium, magnesium, vit c etc)
-Creatine/glutamine will def help to workout hard and recover and this will work to increase hormon's levels
-Finaly, if you can- take some H G H

I have run into ppl who used high amounts of H C G ED, like 750-1000iu ED,
I think it's too high however, you might want to check it out. The most I've done has been 750iu E3D and it was plenty but in your case being so shut down you can experiment a little.
I think that you need to do a longer P C T maybe even up to 8 weeks

Good luck man!

 

[shredded87]

try this bro
HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - 1000iu eod for 3wks
AIFM 2 sprays ed for 6wks
proviron 50mg ed for 6wks
clomid 100mg ed for 1wk then 50mg ed for 5wks
Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - 20mg ed for 6wks

YUP THAT WILL BRING YA BACK

 

[njmuscleguy]

I see alot of bad advice here, IMO...

First, if the guy is feeling like crap to begin with, running no-lva AND clo-mid will make him want to shoot himself... it's overkill and it's just begging for heavy sides!

I won't even discuss no-lva.... say goodbye to any libido! I'm not a fan of clo-mid but let's face it, it works for people. 25-50mg ED for a minimum of 4 weeks. Another alternative is Derma Sustain... it will help maintain libido and general sense of well-being.

As for H C G, he should run a low, daily dosage... it's been shown that dosages of 250-500iu daily increased test levels substantially. In fact, you run the risk of continued or greater suppression with higher dosages of H C G. So 500iu ED for 10-14 days should do the trick.

I personally wouldn't gamble with AIFM in this case... it works for some, not others... better off with a tried and true A I such as a-dex or aro-masin. He only needs to run it alongside the H C G and for 3-5 days after...that's it. (this is just to prevent estro spikes from H C G).

This should help with actual recovery. You could throw in some OTC supplements that might not do much for actual recovery but will at least make you feel better in the process.

Good luck!

 

[Tatyana]

OTC supps I would recommend is 1500 mg of St. John's Wort everyday to help to deal with the depression you may experience, or help to prevent it, as this is another one of the possible sides.

I think seeing the endocrinologist that you will be refered to would be a good idea as well.

It may take some time for your recovery, but it is possible.

 

[makaveli25]

I see alot of bad advice here, IMO...

First, if the guy is feeling like crap to begin with, running no-lva AND clo-mid will make him want to shoot himself... it's overkill and it's just begging for heavy sides!

I won't even discuss no-lva.... say goodbye to any libido! I'm not a fan of clo-mid but let's face it, it works for people. 25-50mg ED for a minimum of 4 weeks. Another alternative is Derma Sustain... it will help maintain libido and general sense of well-being.

As for H C G, he should run a low, daily dosage... it's been shown that dosages of 250-500iu daily increased test levels substantially. In fact, you run the risk of continued or greater suppression with higher dosages of H C G. So 500iu ED for 10-14 days should do the trick.

I personally wouldn't gamble with AIFM in this case... it works for some, not others... better off with a tried and true A I such as a-dex or aro-masin. He only needs to run it alongside the H C G and for 3-5 days after...that's it. (this is just to prevent estro spikes from H C G).

This should help with actual recovery. You could throw in some OTC supplements that might not do much for actual recovery but will at least make you feel better in the process.

Good luck!

how is what we gave him bad advice.. if youve been totally shutdown for that long whyn't take an aggresive approach.. running derma sustain for two months isn;t gonna bring you back from complete shutdown..i agree with lower doses of hcg though.. i think i will change that in my own pct

 

[njmuscleguy]

how is what we gave him bad advice.. if youve been totally shutdown for that long whyn't take an aggresive approach.. running derma sustain for two months isn;t gonna bring you back from complete shutdown..i agree with lower doses of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - though.. i think i will change that in my own PCT - post cycle therapy -

I didn't say it was *all* bad advice... I don't know for sure that Sustain will help him in this case, I just put it out there as an option to clo-mid or no-lva. What I did say is that if he decides on the clo-mid or nolva route, he should take one or the other...not both....waaaay too many sides and the recovery would be the same IMO.....And I think we're in agreement about the H C G... less is more.

 

[tical]

try this bro
HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - 1000iu eod for 3wks
AIFM 2 sprays ed for 6wks
proviron 50mg ed for 6wks
clomid 100mg ed for 1wk then 50mg ed for 5wks
Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - 20mg ed for 6wks

i hear from a very respected man on another board this has brought back people after being on for up to 8 months at a time.. once a i get everything gathered im gonna run this to get my baseline compelelty back to normal... why cant you get clomid and Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - and some HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - they have them at research sites bro.. this is one invenstment you cant fail to make.. theres no excuse why you cant go to one of the sponsors sites on any bodybuilding board and get more than half the stuff i listed

the hcg is the prob the rest i can get

 

[tical]

ive got a few questions for you bro.. how do you feel? have you lost a lot of weight? how is your strenght..

honestly, i havent been to the gym in about a month... my motivation is totally shot

my strength sucks and my weight is about the same but i think its just fat replacing muscle

i feel like shit... sometimes i'll feel 'normal' but then other times i feel like i have 1000 problems and my life just sucks, etc

seriously, random spurts of depression

i'm barely ever horny anymore and can not keep wood w/o cialis or viagra right now... if i try i just lose it halfway through cuz i'm not even into it

i dont even enjoy sex right now, i just do it cuz there's pussy in my face

seriously, i was out with my boys and we met these girls that were all over us and i just went home because it seemed like too much of a hassle to bring chicks back to my place, etc.. can you believe that shit?

 

[tical]

ok so updating the pct based on nj's feedback

500iu of HCG ed for 2 weeks
20mg nolvadex ed for 5 weeks

i'm prone to mood swings and feeling shitty so i wont touch clomid

i tried derma sustain but at this point i dont think it helped me much however my first bloodwork test was a bit higher (112) when i was using it on and off for a couple of weeks as opposed to the most recent (54) when i was off so i must agree it does do something

i just need my natural levels back up there so i dont want to confuse myself with anything else during pct until i get my baseline established

if this pct doesn't bring me back fully, should i do another? how long should i wait if so?

 

[makaveli25]

when will you have all your stuff together.. your pct supplies.. if its gonna take awhile jump on some regular dermacrine it will make you feel better until you can run a pct

 

[tical]

wouldn't proviron sort of hinder things since its androgenic, just like another steroid right?

 

[makaveli25]

ive read a lot from people saying that low doses of provirion 25mg-50mg wont hinder recovery

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'll echo nj's first statement. No offense guys but there's some terrible advice here.

Nolvaa? Why? Do you have gynecomastia? You didn't even list your estrogen.

I also don't mean to rub it in your face but the next time someone says any of the following...


Time on equals time off.

You need 12 week cycles,

Decca can't hurt you.


Show then your post.

You may be fucked but the last thing you should be doing is stuff like Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - and aifm and proviron.

You have 2 choices bro and two choices only.

#1; Run some Hc G to try and kickstart your hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . You lh - leutenizing hormone - is so low it may not help though. Find out what your estrogen is and treat it properly. Use natural substances -- UNLEASHED, Derma, POST CYCLE, MyogenX. Take them consistently for 2 months. If your levels are up, great. Take a break from all gear for at least another year after that.

Or, go on HRT. At 26, that's a sin. But you have no one to blame but yourself.

Good luck and feel better.

 

[tical]

yeah, i fucked up i know it.. i dont consider this rubbing it in my face & if it will help anyone else out then great show them this post

dont make the same mistake i can bros, it sucks & now i have to hope i can get back to normal... who knows if i'll be that lucky though

 

[makaveli25]

I'll echo nj's first statement. No offense guys but there's some terrible advice here.

Nolvaa? Why? Do you have gynecomastia? You didn't even list your estrogen.

I also don;t rub it in your face but the next time someone says any of the following...


Time on equa;s tome off.

You need 12 week cycles,

Decca can't hurt you.


Show then your post.

You may be fucked but the last thing you should be doing is stuff like Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - and aifm and proviron.

You have 2 choices bro and two choices only.

#1; Run some Hc G to try and kickstart your hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . You lh - leutenizing hormone - is so low it may not help though. Find out what your estrogen is and treat it properly. Use natural substances -- UNLEASHED, Derma, POST CYCLE, MyogenX. Take them consistently for 2 months. If your levels are up, great. Take a break from all gear for at least another year after that.

Or, go on HRT. At 26, that's a sin. But you have no one to blame but yourself.

Good luck and feel better.

why the hell would he run otc supplement for a couple months.. he already tried that an it got him to 112... this is the only board i have been on that reccomends otc products for people who are completely shutdown.. this is bad advice.. theres another post a couple down a about a bro who ran myogenex and he hasn;t recovered..

bro use some real drugs and hit it hard and maybe throw in some dermasustain to take the edge off of the clomid.... good luck

 

[Nelson Montana]

why the hell would he run otc supplement for a couple months.. he already tried that an it got him to 112... this is the only board i have been on that reccomends otc products for people who are completely shutdown.. this is bad advice.. theres another post a couple down a about a bro who ran myogenex and he hasn;t recovered..

bro use some real drugs and hit it hard and maybe throw in some dermasustain to take the edge off of the clomid.... good luck

Wrong again bro. On several accounts.

Where does he say he used OTC supps, and which ones. I GUARANTEE if he took UNLEASSHED and POST CYCLE, it wouldn't be this bad. But nothing is a sure fire fix.

The guy who ran MyogenX didn't run anything else. No UNLEASHED. No POST CYCLE . That was a huge mistake. Don't lump someone elses mistake in with this one.

You're also wrong to recommend more drugs (and hitting them hard) which will just cause further suppression. Don't do that. Derma is great but DOES NOT take any "edge" off of Clomid. Not even needto or PP claim that.

 

[makaveli25]

bullshit they mention it about 1000 times.. they say to take dermacrine sustain and if you want throw in some clomid because the dermacrine sustain helps with the side effects... it helped me with my side effects from using theses strong drugs... i belive your poducts work but its messed up that you guys are pushing them soo hard on people and telling them to give up proven drugs that doctors have been using for decades.. fertility clinincs!!!! doctors perscribe clomid to people!!! your setting alot of people up to hurt themselves.. all the otc products should be at the end of the list as a little added kick a libido boost... you dont see any other board catching on to this.. dont you think if these protocols work unleashed post cycle blablablalbla youd here it catching on everywhere else!!! thats all im gonna say..

 

[Nelson Montana]

bullshit they mention it about 1000 times.. they say to take dermacrine sustain and if you want throw in some clomid because the dermacrine sustain helps with the side effects... it helped me with my side effects from using theses strong drugs...

.................................................


I NEVER HEARD THEM SAYING IT WILL WARD OFF THE SIDES OF CLOMID, NOT DO I SEE HOW IT COULD. AGAIN, IT'S A GOOD PRODUCT BUT I'M MISSING SOMETHING. MAYBE IT'LL WARD OFF SIDES BECAUSE YOU'LL NEED LESS CLOMID. I'LL WAIT FOR NEEDTO TO JUMP IN ON THIS ONE.



..................................................


i belive your poducts work but its messed up that you guys are pushing them soo hard on people and telling them to give up proven drugs that doctors have been using for decades.. fertility clinincs!!!!


..................................................

NOT TRUE BRO. YOU'RE MISINFORMED. THEY ARE FERTILITY DRUGS FOR WOMEN. CLOMID WORKS IN SOME MEN SO SOMETIMES DOCS WILL USE IT AS A "WHY NOT" BUT RESULTS ARE RARELY VERY GOOD. IF THEY WERE, IT'D BE HRT. AND THE SHUTDOWN FROM STEROIDS IS SOMETHING ELSE AND THE CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE THERE IS VERY, VERY SCANT. BOTTOM LINE -- WORKS FOR SOME NOT FOR OTHERS, AND IN THOSE WHERE IT DOESN'T WORK IT HAS LOTS OF SIDES.



................................................
doctors perscribe clomid to people!!! your setting alot of people up to hurt themselves.

......................................


STOP ACTING LIKE THE SAVIOR AND GUARDIAN OF THE BOARD. NO ADVICE I'VE EVER GIVEN HAS HURT SOMEBODY AND I HAVE AN ACTUAL REPUTATION IN THIS INDUSTRY. STATE YOUR REAL NAME, HAVE SOME WORK PUBLISHED, THEN SHOW ME WHERE YOUR STATEMENTS HAVE CREDENCE . UNTIL THEN, YOU'RE JUST A GUY WITH AN OPINION. AND IN THIS CASE, IT'S WRONG.



............................................................


all the otc products should be at the end of the list as a little added kick a libido boost... you dont see any other board catching on to this..


..............................................
ARE YOU SERIOUS? THE AF GUYS DID THIS ALL THE TIME. TALK ABOUT ADVICE THAT HURT PEOPLE! A COUPLE OF SALESMAN DOLING OUT MEDICAL ADVICE.


...................................................

dont you think if these protocols work unleashed post cycle blablablalbla youd here it catching on everywhere else!!! thats all im gonna say..
.................................

IT IS. TAKE A LOOK AROUND BRO. SINCE UNLEASHED HAS BEEN RELEASED THERE HAVE BEEN OVER A DOZEN KNOCK OFF PRODUCTS. WHY? BECAUSE IT WORKS BRO! NOW WE DON'T HAVE THE ADVERTISING POWER OF A COMPANY LIKE MUSCLETECH BUT FOR THOSE WHO TRY IT, THEY'LL TELL YOU IT WORKS. AS FOR OTHER BOARDS, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEM. I HEAR TONS OF RETARDED OPINIONS ON OTHER BOARDS SO WHY SHOULD THAT EVEN COME INTO ACCOUNT?

..

 

[Tatyana]

the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - is the prob the rest i can get

I would think and endocrinologist would give you a prescription for this.

As I mentioned, I would start to take St. John's Wort for the depression, it is just as effective as a number of pharma anti-D's, without the sides.

I had a training buddy who just went through this, his test levels were that of a woman about 9 months after his cycle, he was 23.

It took a year to get back to normal, but his LH/FSH were not as low as yours, and now his test levels are at the lower end of normal.

 

[Slyder190]

Okay. What you need to do, is go see an endocrinologist. Bottom line. Go see the doc and see what he says. Then report back and so others can see as well.

 

[needtogetaas]

bullshit they mention it about 1000 times.. they say to take dermacrine sustain and if you want throw in some clomid because the dermacrine sustain helps with the side effects... it helped me with my side effects from using theses strong drugs... i belive your poducts work but its messed up that you guys are pushing them soo hard on people and telling them to give up proven drugs that doctors have been using for decades.. fertility clinincs!!!! doctors perscribe clomid to people!!! your setting alot of people up to hurt themselves.. all the otc products should be at the end of the list as a little added kick a libido boost... you dont see any other board catching on to this.. dont you think if these protocols work unleashed post cycle blablablalbla youd here it catching on everywhere else!!! thats all im gonna say..

To tell you the truth there are other boards catching on to the derma/and the stuff thats in derma and dermacrine sustain. As you know I do a lot of searching the net and there are some pretty big size boards using dermacrine sustain now for pct. I will not post links to them on ef but if you would like a list go ahead and pm me I will hook you up.,


I for one am not close minded. I want to help not sell products. Yes of course its nice if some one gets some derma but if its not going to help I will not tell them to use it... With that being said I don't think I saw him post up his exact
pct. I know he said he used dermacrine sustain (off and on) and it did raise is levels even though he used it (off and on).

mac if you could lay out your whole cycle and pct with as much detail as you can. That would really help out a lot in terms of giving you some good advice.

Did you use hcg??? Did you use clomid??? Did you use dermacrine sustain??? How did you use the dermacrine sustain???? What compounds did you use? when did you start pct? get every thing out clear as a bell. Thanks

 

[makaveli25]

ive been having alot of trouble too thats why im getting upset at some of these threads.. i did a six month cycle!!!! ridicolous and dumb i know... i had a shitload of gear and didn;t keep track of the calander i just ran it until all of my gear was gone.. i know it was a mistake... ill lay out my cycle

1-10 600mg of equipose ( blood pressure got bad soo i dropped the equipose.)
1-5 winstrol 50mged (also dropped this do to joint problems)
testosterone enanthate 1-12 750mgs
testosterone enanthate 12-22 500mg
test p 23-25 100mg eod
HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - 500ius eod 22-25
igf-1 1-4 50mcg 5 0n 2 0ff

PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - 1-4 aromasin 12.5 mg ed
clomid 1-4 50mg ed
dermacrine orginal 1-4
4-8dermacrine sustain

i know i should have used regular dermacrine for 1-4 now...

this PCT - post cycle therapy - problably would have worked if i didn;t stay on for six fucken months..

my two options:

1000ius 0f HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - eod (or 500ius up in the air) 1-4
aifm 2 pumps ed 1-6
provirion 25-50mg ed 1-6
clomid 100mg 1-2 50mg 3-6
Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - 20mg ed
igf-1 1-4 50mcg 5 0n 2 0ff

wait a few weeks get blood work..

i dont feel that im completely shutdown lifts havent gone down that much weight is still up.. mood is stabilized prob cause of derma sustain... im having libibido issues though.. ive been off for 11 weeks...

my other option is too run 16 weeks cycles and then bridge with product like dermicrine original and do this till im old enough for hrt..(which scares me) im not gonna give up anabolic androgenic steroids.. its a huge part of my life.. i went from 175pounds to 205 pound over the last 2 years..

i didn;t mean to offend nelson or neone else its my own fault for using for soo long..i have leanred alot but i stayed on way too long

 

[Tatyana]

Mackavelli,

Didn't you use insulin as well?

 

[tical]

Okay. What you need to do, is go see an endocrinologist. Bottom line. Go see the doc and see what he says. Then report back and so others can see as well.

i have an appointment on jan 9th, that was the earliest he could get me in... thats like 3 weeks from now

do i wait this out? or hop on PCT as soon as i can get my hands on some HCG?

 

[makaveli25]

Mackavelli,

Didn't you use insulin as well?

yes i did which i wont again.. i used a very light dose though 5-7 ius only on workout days for about 2 weeks.. thats it..

 

[needtogetaas]

ive been having alot of trouble too thats why im getting upset at some of these threads.. i did a six month cycle!!!! ridicolous and dumb i know... i had a shitload of gear and didn;t keep track of the calander i just ran it until all of my gear was gone.. i know it was a mistake... ill lay out my cycle

1-10 600mg of equipose ( blood pressure got bad soo i dropped the equipose.)
1-5 winstrol 50mged (also dropped this do to joint problems)
testosterone enanthate 1-12 750mgs
testosterone enanthate 12-22 500mg
test p 23-25 100mg eod
HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - 500ius eod 22-25
igf-1 1-4 50mcg 5 0n 2 0ff

PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - 1-4 aromasin 12.5 mg ed
clomid 1-4 50mg ed
dermacrine orginal 1-4
4-8dermacrine sustain

i know i should have used regular dermacrine for 1-4 now...

this PCT - post cycle therapy - problably would have worked if i didn;t stay on for six fucken months..

my two options:

1000ius 0f HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - eod (or 500ius up in the air) 1-4
aifm 2 pumps ed 1-6
provirion 25-50mg ed 1-6
clomid 100mg 1-2 50mg 3-6
Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - 20mg ed
igf-1 1-4 50mcg 5 0n 2 0ff

wait a few weeks get blood work..

i dont feel that im completely shutdown lifts havent gone down that much weight is still up.. mood is stabilized prob cause of derma sustain... im having libibido issues though.. ive been off for 11 weeks...

my other option is too run 16 weeks cycles and then bridge with product like dermicrine original and do this till im old enough for hrt..(which scares me) im not gonna give up anabolic androgenic steroids.. its a huge part of my life.. i went from 175pounds to 205 pound over the last 2 years..

i didn;t mean to offend nelson or neone else its my own fault for using for soo long..i have leanred alot but i stayed on way too long

OOOOOOOOPPPPPPs I ment that post to be fore tical. I wanted him to answer
the questions. fuck it though I will take a look at yours as well and think on it.

 

[HAYEZ]

hcg gets the testes back to size but it also suppresses you nat test...i dont know why people ignore this fact and use it during pct...
what i would do is 500iu of hcg every day until you see them back up to size.
i would take nolva 60mg ed first week then 40mg ed for 3 weeks. then id prob get your tests again a few days after the nolva clears your system and see where your at

 

[Varga]

You might need 2-3 P C Ts to recover, bro!
What is important is to keep lifting heavy right after the cycle. That will stimulate many hormons in your body. Even though you feel like shit make an attempt to go to the gym and lift. Eat plenty of food as well-high protein!
Start doing cardio as well


As for the best course of action in regards to what compounds to use is up to you what to do and who to believe.

 

[needtogetaas]

ive been having alot of trouble too thats why im getting upset at some of these threads.. i did a six month cycle!!!! ridicolous and dumb i know... i had a shitload of gear and didn;t keep track of the calander i just ran it until all of my gear was gone.. i know it was a mistake... ill lay out my cycle

1-10 600mg of equipose ( blood pressure got bad soo i dropped the equipose.)
1-5 winstrol 50mged (also dropped this do to joint problems)
testosterone enanthate 1-12 750mgs
testosterone enanthate 12-22 500mg
test p 23-25 100mg eod
HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - 500ius eod 22-25
igf-1 1-4 50mcg 5 0n 2 0ff

PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - 1-4 aromasin 12.5 mg ed
clomid 1-4 50mg ed
dermacrine orginal 1-4
4-8dermacrine sustain

i know i should have used regular dermacrine for 1-4 now...

this PCT - post cycle therapy - problably would have worked if i didn;t stay on for six fucken months..

my two options:

1000ius 0f HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - eod (or 500ius up in the air) 1-4
aifm 2 pumps ed 1-6
provirion 25-50mg ed 1-6
clomid 100mg 1-2 50mg 3-6
Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - 20mg ed
igf-1 1-4 50mcg 5 0n 2 0ff

wait a few weeks get blood work..

i dont feel that im completely shutdown lifts havent gone down that much weight is still up.. mood is stabilized prob cause of derma sustain... im having libibido issues though.. ive been off for 11 weeks...

my other option is too run 16 weeks cycles and then bridge with product like dermicrine original and do this till im old enough for hrt..(which scares me) im not gonna give up anabolic androgenic steroids.. its a huge part of my life.. i went from 175pounds to 205 pound over the last 2 years..

i didn;t mean to offend nelson or neone else its my own fault for using for soo long..i have leanred alot but i stayed on way too long

fucking shit bro. damn lol. you just went all fucking otu on the long ass cycle.
ya I think that pct would have worked great if you were talking about even a 16 week cycle depending on how much but shit 25 weeks thats so damn long.
also I would have adviced you to run the hcg threw out that whole cycle at a low dose 500ui's ew. That might have helped a lot. Its good to see were your anger has been coming from though. At least we know its not dermacrine sustains fault. Hell you used clomid to, and hcg.


But any way here we are,or rather here you are with a problem. Lets see if we can fix it. I for one think you will recover bro. Its going to take time though.

 

[Tatyana]

yes i did which i wont again.. i used a very light dose though 5-7 ius only on workout days for about 2 weeks.. thats it..

What had you change your mind hun?

 

[Varga]

HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - gets the testes back to size but it also suppresses you nat test...i dont know why people ignore this fact and use it during PCT - post cycle therapy - ...
what i would do is 500iu of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - every day until you see them back up to size.
i would take Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - 60mg ed first week then 40mg ed for 3 weeks. then id prob get your tests again a few days after the Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - clears your system and see where your at

True,

 

[Nelson Montana]

You might need 2-3 P C Ts to recover, bro!
What is important is to keep lifting heavy right after the cycle. That will stimulate many hormons in your body. Even though you feel like shit make an attempt to go to the gym and lift. Eat plenty of food as well-high protein!
Start doing cardio as well


As for the best course of action in regards to what compounds to use is up to you what to do and who to believe.

Actually cardio lowers testosterone.

 

[georgie24]

i would hop on HMG or HC G ASAP!

 

[Varga]

Actually cardio lowers testosterone.

I have not seen a runner being impotent....Nelson So no matter what it won't be much of a factor....
I wasn't talking about his test levels with the cardio but his mental and physical health!

 

[makaveli25]

What had you change your mind hun?

you did tat haha.. i just thought to myself one day what the hell are you doing and i didn;t do it again.. i didn;t realise what a mistake i was making

 

[makaveli25]

OOOOOOOOPPPPPPs I ment that post to be fore tical. I wanted him to answer
the questions. fuck it though I will take a look at yours as well and think on it.

thanks bro.. i appreciate.. at least i dont think im completely shutdown.. im feeling pretty good and my lifts seem to be doing okay.. im just gonna keep on trucking and try another pct.. ill keep ya updated

 

[perryscoon]

I'll echo nj's first statement. No offense guys but there's some terrible advice here.

Nolvaa? Why? Do you have gynecomastia? You didn't even list your estrogen.

I also don't mean to rub it in your face but the next time someone says any of the following...


Time on equals time off.

You need 12 week cycles,

Decca can't hurt you.


Show then your post.

You may be fucked but the last thing you should be doing is stuff like Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - and aifm and proviron.

You have 2 choices bro and two choices only.

#1; Run some Hc G to try and kickstart your hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . You lh - leutenizing hormone - - leutenizing hormone - is so low it may not help though. Find out what your estrogen is and treat it properly. Use natural substances -- UNLEASHED, Derma, POST CYCLE, MyogenX. Take them consistently for 2 months. If your levels are up, great. Take a break from all gear for at least another year after that.

Or, go on HRT. At 26, that's a sin. But you have no one to blame but yourself.

Good luck and feel better.

I agree with this.

I don't understand why I see people taking nolvadex to try and bring natty test levels back. This seems to be a growing trend and I'm not sure why.

 

[2raptors]

WOW! What a fuckin' read, guys! Holy SHIT! Great lesson, great resonses from ALL.... If I had enough, I'd give K to all of you! I'm saving this thread...great info.

M

 

[HAYEZ]

I agree with this.

I don't understand why I see people taking nolvadex to try and bring natty test levels back. This seems to be a growing trend and I'm not sure why.

If you have followed it thru the last few years seems most people that used to swear by clomid switched to nolvadex and never went back. Me for the last 4 or so years have had no problems useing nolvadex and hcg to recover. I'm sure some of these OTC supps that people are useing now may work to a point. But if you been around long enough its usually the same old shit with these products everybody loves them when they first come out then they end up bullshit.

 

[Mr. Black]

i would hop on HMG or HC G ASAP!

As good as those two compounds are together, in order to reap any benefits one needs to have functioning LH & FSH signals from the pituitary. Not much point to having freshly rehabbed balls when theres no signal to stimulate any test. I remember reading a thread somewhere whe a guy had no LH whatsoever (due to AAS usage) and ran clomid solo for 3 months or so, then got tested and his LH actually came back to normal.

 

[tical]

shit i practically have no LH :/

i'm on 40mg nolvadex ed right now waiting for the clomid & hcg

been on 1500mg st johns wort for 3 days as well as my multis... my mood is picking up thank god

 

[Varga]

As good as those two compounds are together, in order to reap any benefits one needs to have functioning lh - leutenizing hormone - & FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - signals from the pituitary. Not much point to having freshly rehabbed balls when theres no signal to stimulate any test. I remember reading a thread somewhere whe a guy had no LH whatsoever (due to anabolic androgenic steroids usage) and ran clomid solo for 3 months or so, then got tested and his LH actually came back to normal.

Yeap I agree, that's why just use all of them