lithium and roids one doubt

[musclemag69]

i must take lithium because i have several times serious depression.i,m taking during last 2 years and i.m ok,im really happy with the treatment.
but i have a problem..when i start a cycle taking lithium my number of red cells increase so than i must leave the cycle(more than 58%).when i was in roids before-when i didnt take lithium- my red cells increase but not much.
anyb know about this effect about roids and lithium?

 

[JohnnyWest]

Maybe different compounds or different dosages?

 

[musclemag69]

not the same ,mainly testo and winny

 

[JohnnyWest]

not the same ,mainly testo and winny

So you're saying when you do 2 of the same cycles at the same dosage, and lithium with one of them, you get a higher RBC count then if you didn't add the lithium? If that's true I don't have answer for you. What I was thinking maybe you used compunds that would cause a greater raise in RBC or you used a higher dosage when on the litium so you thought the lithium was the cause. Either way you'll definitley get a higher RBC on cycle.
I'll post back in a bit if I can find anything related to lithium effecting RBC.

 

[lanky]

From your statements i understand you are happy with your current mood, but are concerned with the increase of RBC.....................................................................
I am aware that lithium can raise Leukocytes(WBC). any anabolic or androgenic steriod has the ability to raise RBC count. I could not find any information on why there would be an potentiated increase in RBC compared to running alone or with lithium..but it is a possibility...are you currently getting bloodwork done every 3 months for lithium levels? , CBC w/differential, and other labwork? It is very important to stay well hydrated with lithium levels because of risk of toxicity, especially now that summer is here any you will loose more fluid if you live in a warm place...Contact your doc if you experience any vomiting , diarrhea, slurred speech, muscle twitching or weakness, because they are s/s of toxicity. I understand your concern for your health. What types of feelings do you have regarding discussing this with your physician?

 

[BigCracker]

If you're on Lithium, aren't you about 2 steps away from being in a mental hospital? Lithium is serious shit-they only give it to people if they're ready to jump off of a cliff or kill someone. Plus there's a 1 in 25 chance in developing a goiter in users.

http://www.backwashzine.com/goiter_gal.jpg

Adding AAS to the mix is a real crapshoot IMNSHO regardless of how it effects your RBC count.

 

[nuthinbutagoodtym]

If you're on Lithium, aren't you about 2 steps away from being in a mental hospital? Lithium is serious shit-they only give it to people if they're ready to jump off of a cliff or kill someone. Plus there's a 1 in 25 chance in developing a goiter in users.

http://www.backwashzine.com/goiter_gal.jpg

Adding AAS to the mix is a real crapshoot IMNSHO regardless of how it effects your RBC count.

Ya know - one of my friends is on Lithium, and he's not even CLOSE to being in a mental Hospital.

You have a decent amount of knowledge,Crack, cause you've been around "forever", but that doesn't make your comments any less inconsiderate.

I know you try to be a funny guy, and I'm sure there are people who think you are funny,.................I find you ignorant and pompous.

You shit on people who are in distress, ......................- if you were here I'd shit down your fukin throat bro,...................................and that's NO joke.

 

[bootneck]

My doc is considering putting me on lithium, for depression. Whats it like bro? Ive heard it turns you into a fuckin zombie! Cos i dont know fuck all about it, i dont know whether to agree to go on it or not, the docs over here never really tell you everything about what different drugs do to you.

 

[BigCracker]

Ya know - one of my friends is on Lithium, and he's not even CLOSE to being in a mental Hospital.

You have a decent amount of knowledge,Crack, cause you've been around "forever", but that doesn't make your comments any less inconsiderate.

I know you try to be a funny guy, and I'm sure there are people who think you are funny,.................I find you ignorant and pompous.

You shit on people who are in distress, ......................- if you were here I'd shit down your fukin throat bro,...................................and that's NO joke.

Oh God, not another internet tough guy!!! Nice to know your friends are in poor mental health and are under a physician's care. Overly sensitive types like yourself are usually very insecure which is likely why you choose people with mental problems to befriend. Their shortcomings make you feel better about yourself in the same way trash talking someone on the internet does. More power to ya. Just remember it's nobody's fault but your own that you couldn't get laid in an animal shelter. And I highly doubt you'd trash talk me in person unless you had a half dozen of your borderline retarded friends with you to back you up.

And FYI Poison was the gayest 80's hair band of all. Try wearing a Poison concert t shirt to a Pantera Show and see if you don't get your ass beat.

 

[H_T_]

easy guys. i'm prolly older than most of you and have been dealing with depression since i was a teen. the only difference was that i never got meds. i regret that, cuz it led to a lot of grief for me. just because you're on a drug doesn't mean you have to stay on it. there are plenty of other drugs out there that will mesh better with you. you just have to siphon thru them.

 

[BigCracker]

Lithium is a lifelong treatment.

What is lithium and what does it treat?

Lithium carbonate is a salt that was first approved in the United States in 1970 to treat manic depression (bipolar disorder). Today, it remains a commonly used medication for this illness. There are several different brands of lithium dispensed as tablets, capsules, or liquid (the most commonly used products are listed above). A manic episode, or mania, is when a person experiences several of the following symptoms at the same time: "high" or irritable mood, very high self esteem, decreased need for sleep, pressure to keep talking, racing thoughts, being easily distracted, frequently involved in activities with a large risk for bad consequences (for example, excessive buying sprees). A depressive episode, or depression, is when a person experiences several of the following symptoms at the same time: "low" or depressed mood (for example, sad, empty, tearful), decreased interest in most or all activities, changes in appetite (usually decreased), changes in sleep (usually poor sleep), loss of energy, feeling worthless/guilty/ hopeless/ helpless, difficulty concentrating, thoughts of death (suicidal thinking). Bipolar disorder is an illness which exposes people to these mood changes over the course of time.


Lithium is used to even out the highs (mania) and lows (depression) in mood associated with of bipolar disorder. In some cases, lithium is used to treat people with depression even though they have never experienced a manic episode. Many of these patients have not responded adequately to antidepressants alone, so the addition of lithium to an antidepressant is tried for some people.

Lithium has also been used to treat people with schizophrenia in cases where changes in thinking happen at the same time as a mood change that looks like either mania or depression.


Are there any risks for taking this medication for long periods of time?

With long-term use of lithium, hypothyroidism can occur; however, it can be treated with thyroid supplementation. Kidney damage may also occur, but it is rare. In order to minimize risk, your healthcare provider will periodically measure kidney function and lithium levels with a simple blood test.

What is the usual duration of treatment for lithium?

Mood stabilizer treatment is generally needed lifelong for persons with Bipolar illness. Your doctor can best discuss the duration of treatment you need based on your symptoms and course of illness.


Source:

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Se...aggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=51&ContentID=20820

SIDE EFFECTS:

The most common side effects that can occur in persons taking lithium are fine hand tremor, dry mouth, altered taste perception, weight gain, increased thirst, increased frequency of urination, mild nausea or vomiting, impotence, decreased libido, diarrhea, and kidney abnormalities. Many of the gastrointestinal side effects (nausea, taste alterations, diarrhea) often disappear with continued therapy. Additionally, they may be less common if lithium is taken in divided doses with meals. If diarrhea or excessive urination lead to dehydration, lithium toxicity is possible. Lithium can also cause changes in the electrocardiogram, low blood pressure, and decreased heart rate.

The following side effects suggest that lithium blood levels may be too high, and that the dose of lithium may need to be reduced (after confirmation by measurement of lithium levels in blood): loss of appetite; visual impairment; tiredness; muscle weakness; muscle fasciculations (twitches); tremor; unsteady gait; confusion, seizure; arrhythmias; slurred speech; coma.

About 1 in every 25 persons who receives lithium develops a goiter (an enlarged thyroid gland). Hypothyroidism (low thyroid hormone levels) has been reported. Signs of hypothyroidism may include dry rough skin, hair loss, hoarseness, mania, mental depression, increased sensitivity to cold, and swelling of the feet, lower legs, and neck.

Source: http://www.medicinenet.com/lithium/page2.htm

It sounds to me like Lithium could be a cure that's side effects are worse than the disorder it treats-unless you consider being an empty shell of who you once were a good thing? I'd rather be depressed than be a zombie. Childrens Tylenol it is not.

 

[Advisor_x]

Bro you playing with your mental health consult your Dr.....all of us can send you to the big house where they will give you a BEAUTIFULL sweater that ties on the back......

 

[nuthinbutagoodtym]

Oh God, not another internet tough guy!!! Nice to know your friends are in poor mental health and are under a physician's care. Overly sensitive types like yourself are usually very insecure which is likely why you choose people with mental problems to befriend. Their shortcomings make you feel better about yourself in the same way trash talking someone on the internet does. More power to ya. Just remember it's nobody's fault but your own that you couldn't get laid in an animal shelter. And I highly doubt you'd trash talk me in person unless you had a half dozen of your borderline retarded friends with you to back you up.

And FYI Poison was the gayest 80's hair band of all. Try wearing a Poison concert t shirt to a Pantera Show and see if you don't get your ass beat.

Why wouldn't I trash-talk in person? Cause of Pantera?

You ARE funny, ....................but you're also a "joke"

 

[KD1]

Just remember it's nobody's fault but your own that you couldn't get laid in an animal shelter.

Im a little curious about this comment. Is it easy to get laid at an animal shelter or something?

 

[nuthinbutagoodtym]

Im a little curious about this comment. Is it easy to get laid at an animal shelter or something?

i missed that one - when Crack posts, I always have the urge to just skim through the crap. Problem is, - it's all crap.

 

[happiest]

any of you guys know about anti depressants and aas?
I have been using lexapro at a very light dose to treat anxiety and it has helped tremendously. What should I expect when I mix it with Test and Var?
Oh and for the record: Believe me, if you seek help for any illness or disorder, regardless of social stigma, it only proves you are stronger and willing to work towards happiness in life. I wish I would have agreed to the treatment when I was younger so the years I suffered in silence would have been better spent.
Kudos to you musclemag69...take charge of your life

 

[nuthinbutagoodtym]

any of you guys know about anti depressants and aas?
I have been using lexapro at a very light dose to treat anxiety and it has helped tremendously. What should I expect when I mix it with Test and Var?
Oh and for the record: Believe me, if you seek help for any illness or disorder, regardless of social stigma, it only proves you are stronger and willing to work towards happiness in life. I wish I would have agreed to the treatment when I was younger so the years I suffered in silence would have been better spent.
Kudos to you musclemag69...take charge of your life

Lexapro is in the family of SSRI's,(Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) - they are not benzos (Valium,Klon,Xan).

I've been on Zoloft fot YEARS and had no problems, - although I can't guarantee that, say, the wrong (or lack of) proper PCT
you could actually find yourself depressed and anxious (which happens to AAS users all the time)

If your PCT is aggressive and well planned-out, Lexapro and AAS shouldn't interfere with each other.

 

[lanky]

any of you guys know about anti depressants and aas?
I have been using lexapro at a very light dose to treat anxiety and it has helped tremendously. What should I expect when I mix it with Test and Var?
Oh and for the record: Believe me, if you seek help for any illness or disorder, regardless of social stigma, it only proves you are stronger and willing to work towards happiness in life. I wish I would have agreed to the treatment when I was younger so the years I suffered in silence would have been better spent.
Kudos to you musclemag69...take charge of your life

Very interesting question...Lexapro is metabolized by the same liver enzyme as androgens...this enzyme is cytochrome P-450 3A4 . Androgens are known to inhibit this enzyme....what this possibly means is that the serum levels of Lexapro may be elevated to very high levels because the enzyme needed to break down the drug so it can be excreted is inhibited by the androgens you are taking,,,/and/or the half life of the drug will increase as well. What this possibly means,,,maybe a reduction in your dosage of Lexapro while on cycle, or not using AAS alltogether, or talking about this with your physician. If you you do decide not to talk to your physician about this and do a cycle of test, var and lexapro be aware of any mood changes and s/s of toxicity or increases levels of lexapro in your system.

 

[BigCracker]

Im a little curious about this comment. Is it easy to get laid at an animal shelter or something?

Well, animals cant hide behind the "no means no" thing cuz they can't speak. If I really wanted to be mean I would've said "you couldn't get laid in a morgue." but I was holding back.

 

[BigCracker]

Bro you playing with your mental health consult your Dr.....all of us can send you to the big house where they will give you a BEAUTIFULL sweater that ties on the back......

This is all that I was implying, just less eloquently. Check out the list of sides-kidney probs, etc. Caffeine also is a no no on lithium. I just can't see how using AAS could be a positive thing when using Lithium.

If the poster chooses to do otherwise, goes postal on his coworkers and kills himself afterwards, at least someone tried to warn him. I'll be keeping my eye on the news for the roid raging Lithium guy on kidney dialysis that puts a bullet in everyone in his office and kills himself afterwards.

 

[BigCracker]

Why wouldn't I trash-talk in person? Cause of Pantera?

You ARE funny, ....................but you're also a "joke"

No likely because a punch in the jaw by a 300# guy that bench presses 500lbs + any day of the week would not be worth it. You don't need to be a handyman to figure that one out you Burger King Straw using felcher.

 

[BigCracker]

I remember a time when people were ashamed of their mental illness, almost as if it were a handicap or a sign of mental weakness. These days people openly discuss their mental ailments and wear it like a badge on their sleeves-almost as if it's a rite of passage into adulthood.

I'm sure there are some people that really need such treatment, but mixing these drugs with AAS and fucking around with your hormone levels has to be entering unchartered waters. Especially when you hide your AAS use from your shrink in fear that they may tell you not to take them.

For the most part these anti-depressant drugs are way over prescribed. In the USA 52% of people use an RX drug daily. I'm sure the RX cos are shooting for 100% in the future. Be a good sheep. Jump on the bandwagon with the rest of the people too small minded to realize that our government doesn't give a fuck about our health. It's in their best interest for us to be all doped up so we're as subserviant as can be. This will keep the wheels of the machine turning faster and faster for their $$$ gain and to the demise of having our own thought processes.

What? We're gonna bomb Iran? Awesome!-great idea!! Gimme another Prozac. WW3 has started and it's all good. Maybe we should bomb China too? That would be kickazz!!!

 

[nuthinbutagoodtym]

No likely because a punch in the jaw by a 300# guy that bench presses 500lbs + any day of the week would not be worth it. You don't need to be a handyman to figure that one out you Burger King Straw using felcher.

Well - I'm 6'6" 350 (no lie - bros on here can confirm) so instead of the shot to the jaw - I would think that ME tearing your head from your body and spitting down your throat would be more like it.

I takes SHITS bigger than you every morning..........................

No lie Bro - watch your step. I know you're one of EF's "clowns" - but I fukin hate clowns, so tread softly you fuk.

 

[BigCracker]

6'6 350-and you're a Poison fan? I think all heterosexual males should live in fear of you stealing their butt cherry.

And I got news for ya-hair bands died about a decade ago. CC Deville is on The Surreal life-which speaks volumes about just how down the shitter Poison's following has gone. I suppose you have Winger, Great White, Nelson, and White Lion albums unopened on original vinyl in hopes they'll be worth big $$$$ on ebay someday? Keep waitin' It's never gonna happen.

 

[nuthinbutagoodtym]

6'6 350-and you're a Poison fan? I think all heterosexual males should live in fear of you stealing their butt cherry.

And I got news for ya-hair bands died about a decade ago. CC Deville is on The Surreal life-which speaks volumes about just how down the shitter Poison's following has gone. I suppose you have Winger, Great White, Nelson, and White Lion albums unopened on original vinyl in hopes they'll be worth big $$$$ on ebay someday? Keep waitin' It's never gonna happen.

I love pushing your buttons..........................WAY too easy.

You're as "simple" as they come bro....................

 

[bigrand]

Lithium is highly liver toxic over time.
Since you are either Type 1/2 bi-polar, i would be warry of taking hormones that might upset an already very shaky mental state.

Be careful bro.

 

[bigrand]

Sorry to disrupt the feud BTW.....!

Have you tried the other psych meds for BP? Valproic acid perhaps?

 

[BigCracker]

I seriously am concerned withour society's socially accepted use of drugs prescribed by Drs. When I was growing up people that went to school to become Drs where always held in such high regard-almost as if their character and motives shouldn't be questioned because of their chosen field of humanitarianism. These days I think that's hardly the case. Nobody in their right mind would spend all of that time and $$$ on school to not make as much $$$ at all costs when the situation presents itself. Even if a Dr has the best of ethics, how can he refuse a patient an appointment or an Rx they don't need while knowing if they don't, another less scrupulous Dr gladly will(and put the $$$ in their pocket instead)? Refusing $$$ isn't good business when you have office rent, med equipment loans, and a student loan payment of almost $1K or more a month to pay. These days questioning authority is not too popular. I strongly feel we need to take a good look at what our health care system is for what it is-a huge $$$ industry that thrives on the sick. Drugs are only a temporary fix-and the few drugs that do cure ailments are grossly overpriced. There's no profit in cures-only in treatment. Instead of bliondly following whatever the government says, I think we should research things for ourselves before just handing over our health to some shmo that went to school 10 yrs.

 

[happiest]

wow...this has turned into way too many diatribes..lol
Brothers with helpful words and insight: thank you. As I assumed, this IS a site where one can discuss chems and whatever else arises in the course of our writing. I believe compassion and honesty are the keys to success in all endeavors.
I will def speak with pros before I begin any cycles...

 

[halfsak]

What's your daily lithium dose? I've been on lithium carbonate for 5 years with zero of the scary side effects.

Be very careful (or avoid completely) orals. Lithium itself is already straining your liver and the last thing you need is another hepatoxic element.

Keep an eye on your serum levels and drink as much water as you can handle.

Without more information that's the best input I can offer. My guess would be that extra strain of lithium on liver and kidneys would be causing most of your problems.

Any physical sides or is it just bad blood work?