Limitation of natural training

[mbag012]

Assuming you arent a genetic masterpiece, how much is it possible to lift without going on juice? My current goal is to reach 200kg->440pound squat without juice. im guessing that will be easily possible because im doing 400-420lb squats at the moment.

but what i really want to do is
squat 300kg->660lb.
bench 200kg->440lb
deadlift 300kg->660lb

how far do people usually go before genetics start prohibiting growth?

 

[AEKDB]

It is likely that nobody on this board will ever see the limits of natural ability. The numbers you posted above are well within most people's natural abilities.

 

[buddhabuilder]

Just look at some of the guys who achieved incredible physique before the introduction of steroids. Steve Reeves and Bill Pearl had incredibly developed, symmetrical builds. There are no limits to an individuals potential unless they believe there is. It's just like Buddhism, slowly learning to believe in your unlimited potential through the consistent challenging of your dreams.

 

[infraredline]

Assuming you arent a genetic masterpiece, how much is it possible to lift without going on juice? My current goal is to reach 200kg->440pound squat without juice. im guessing that will be easily possible because im doing 400-420lb squats at the moment.

but what i really want to do is
squat 300kg->660lb.
bench 200kg->440lb
deadlift 300kg->660lb

how far do people usually go before genetics start prohibiting growth?

The squat and deadlift are both attainable the bench is a bit of a reach but still possible, I have a frien that is about to round 600lbs I his deadlift

 

[mbag012]

oh wow buddhabuilder! that was beautiful. makes me wanna go lift some more iron.

 

[joeblow12345]

Assuming you arent a genetic masterpiece, how much is it possible to lift without going on juice? My current goal is to reach 200kg->440pound squat without juice. im guessing that will be easily possible because im doing 400-420lb squats at the moment.

but what i really want to do is
squat 300kg->660lb.
bench 200kg->440lb
deadlift 300kg->660lb

how far do people usually go before genetics start prohibiting growth?

There is no limit on what you can achieve
Naturally, but as time goes on natural gains become more difficult to attain. I squatted and dl over 550 natural, and benched over 300. And Im sure that in about a decade I could have reached my current level, but juice made it happen alot sooner. I have a buddy thats never used and hes in his 40's. Hes benched 550 raw, and 750 in a bench shirt. Thats extremely impressive, but it took him about 14 years to do it naturally. Juice will take you to places that a natural lifter couldnt reach in 50 years. You can definitely make great gains on your own but youll never outpace someone on juice. Thats why the bb today are pushing 300 lbs on stage, and records are falling in every sport regularly.

NTBM REP

 

[mbag012]

youre one of the most helpful people on this forum lol

is the effect of juice permanent tho? so lets say i started natty at 500 squat, then i used juice to bring it up to 800. if i stopped using will i slowly lose those gains and go back to my natural 500 squat or will i keep the 800 but progress much slower because ive stopped juicing? the reason im asking this question is because of the legal status of roids. in my country it is illegal to buy roids without prescription and when using roids with prescription i am banned from all powerlifting competition.

any kind of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

 

[joeblow12345]

youre one of the most helpful people on this forum lol

is the effect of juice permanent tho? so lets say i started natty at 500 squat, then i used juice to bring it up to 800. if i stopped using will i slowly lose those gains and go back to my natural 500 squat or will i keep the 800 but progress much slower because ive stopped juicing? the reason im asking this question is because of the legal status of roids. in my country it is illegal to buy roids without prescription and when using roids with prescription i am banned from all powerlifting competition.

any kind of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

When you run a cycle with a solid pct its feasible to keep over 80% of gains. You wont be able to perform at the level you did on juice but you can still make gains. They will be way slower but its possible.

NTBM REP

 

[mbag012]

hmmmm it seems like using gear will be great for training.

im not sure if i can ask this but where do i start looking if i want to find juice? ive done drugs from soft to hard and everything in between but not a single dealer i have on my contacts know where to get roids.

im sure i can find it if i knew where to look but i dont know what to look for.

 

[Green_smoke]

Go down your local gym and ask the guys who look massive! I'm sure they can help you out lol.

 

[Green_smoke]

Also we not allowed to discuss sources on here. Probly why noone else has replied since.

 

[mbag012]

yeah. i kinda guessed why no one replied haha. well i wont need to worry about gear for a while because im only 21 years old and apparently that is too early to start doing steroids. it can shut down natural testosterone production later in life and increasing the weights too much while on steroids will cause tendon and ligament damage; something i am not willing to risk. its a pity because i was looking towards using steroids and accelerating towards my goals.

 

[the_alcatraz]

99 out of a 100 people can never achive those numbers naturally OR on juice.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone, but let's get realistic here...it doesnt matter how much of a hard worker you are, if you don't have above average genetics, and you want to stay natural, you'll never achieve those numbers.

I've been lifting for 14 years, have fairly decent genetics and have juiced and haven't hit all three of the above numbers together...I'm also extremely strong, stronger than most people I know. I'm a strength athlete.

Then again, weight and overall built make a diff. I'm only 5'8" and 205 lbs...if you were a 315 lbs farm boy, you will probably hit close to these numbers in 5-6 yrs of training and might even be able to do it naturally

 

[mbag012]

but louie simmons and the westside barbell gym!

how do they hit such high numbers then? theres got to be a way

 

[training700]

You train for strength and pure maxes and juice accordingly when the time comes.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

 

[Dial_tone]

I like to simplify things. My stance is that you have to ask if they're attainable they aren't. You know your genetics, current strength, current experience and effort better than anyone. Why ask us?

I think a triple bodyweight lift is pretty unlikely; but I could see 2-2.5 on some.

 

[the_alcatraz]

I like to simplify things. My stance is that you have to ask if they're attainable they aren't. You know your genetics, current strength, current experience and effort better than anyone. Why ask us?

I think a triple bodyweight lift is pretty unlikely; but I could see 2-2.5 on some.

A 2 x bodyweight is very easy. I've hit 2.5 x my bodyweight on squats, deadlifts, t-bar rows, etc...I've hit over 2 x my bodyweight on bench...

3 x bodyweight is very hard...I will probably never hit that on all three big lifts.

 

[Dial_tone]

Then again, weight and overall built make a diff. I'm only 5'8" and 205 lbs...if you were a 315 lbs farm boy, you will probably hit close to these numbers in 5-6 yrs of training and might even be able to do it naturally

Being heavier makes it far less likely anyone will reach 3X lifts. I could do 2.0-2.5X lifts when I was 180-190lbs but I can't come close to that now that I'm 275, but then I'll be 48 tomorrow. I hope to squat 2X by year end. I did 500 last week.

 

[mbag012]

see thats your problem. you already psychologically gave up. i think that if you start looking for ways to get stronger you will find a way and that you can hit 3X bodyweight. nothing thats worth doing is easy to do.

i havent been all the way up there but i dont see why 660lb squat isnt attainable. ive been training on the westside conjugate method and each week i put 45lb on the bar. in 1 month i raised the squat from 280-400. i eventually injured myself due to the stupid pace at which i added weight to the bar, lack of warm up while going for a 380lb squat attempt at a competition and lack of restoration excersizes. i wasnt on juice either, this is 100% natural. what i did was find out my back and core is weak so i did 50 reps of 5RM GM's, weight glute ham raises and 200 reps of ab workout and my squat would rise 45lb before failure due to weak hips. then id do alot of hip excersizes and etc. now i know that things will get alot harder once i start hitting the BIG weights but at the moment, due to my lack of experience i just dont see the difficulty in reaching th 660lb squat.

once i gain more experience and attain a bit more muscle maturity ill start a cycle and keep going til i hit 660.

 

[Graffiti]

Everything is possible. When I was on deployments, I hit those numbers. Worked hard to get there. Just make sure you do it properly. My body is feeling it now. Specialy after bi-lateral knee surgery. Eat properly, have good form, have a great spotter who will push you, and believe. If your head isnt in the game then you will never get there.