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LGD-4033 log

T

testiclats

New member
Hi all, I've never done a log before, so bear with me! I think I'll do one for my rat's LGD-4033 run.

I've seen other logs and one thing that bugs me is that a lot of people subjectively say they can tell it's shutting down testosterone production, but I've never seen anyone actually measure it with labs. My rat just had labs done a couple weeks ago and will be getting new labs after the LGD cycle, so we will be able to look at actual numbers and confirm how much shutdown took place.

I'm thinking I'll run it for 3 weeks at somewhere between 1 and 3 mg per day. I'm open to input on that. The only other research chemical the rat is using is GW-501516 which is being dosed at 20mg / day.

Also considering stacking with S4, since I have some S4. What do you guys think? Good idea, bad idea? What dose would you use on the S4 if stacking with LGD?

The rat's workouts consist of CrossFit 3 to 5 days a week, depending on schedule, and hiking, backpacking, or distance running about once a week. The CrossFit frequently involves olympic weight lifting.

The LGD hasn't come yet in the mail but should arrive in a couple days, around Saturday I think, then we can start the experiment :D

Vital Ratistics:
Age: 34
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 190 lbs (changes often, will do a new weigh-in when starting log, some weekends if the rat ate like a pig it can skyrocket up to 200lbs or so)
Body fat: approx. 13% (again, will retest at start of experiment, also this number might not be accurate since the measurements are taken using one of those Omron electronic handheld measurement devices, but hopefully it will be good enough to show increase or decrease)

Some 1 rep max strength numbers to get an idea of baseline starting strength:
Bench max: 300 lbs
Deadlift max: 415 lbs
Snatch max: 165
Jerk max: 185
Front squat max: 225
Shoulder press max: 155

That's about all the relevant info I have, the rat hasn't established 1 rep max in some of the common lifts like squats. The rat is still new-ish to some of this weight training stuff and skill / form is holding him back on some lifts. Hoping to see strength gains, endurance gains, and fat loss... that's the hope anyway! Will probably try to eat clean and run either a slight deficit or try to break even on calories during the experiment.
 
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I'll definitely be following. I'd reccomend running it 3mg for 6 weeks. 3 weeks isn't long enough. What are your goals with the cycle? Cutting, bulking, etc.? It's going to be hard to judge effects if your running a compound like GW at such a high dose as well.
 
Cipp21 said:
I'll definitely be following. I'd reccomend running it 3mg for 6 weeks. 3 weeks isn't long enough. What are your goals with the cycle? Cutting, bulking, etc.? It's going to be hard to judge effects if your running a compound like GW at such a high dose as well.
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I mostly just want to get stronger and more cut, is it possible to bulk and cut at the same time or do you need to pick one?

There's a competition coming up in November that I might try to participate in, so strength and endurance are the most important. I don't really care that much about the looks side for now.
 
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Yeah just a disclaimer, before I post testosterone numbers, I have had low testosterone for many years. I'm working with an endocronologist but we haven't figure out why yet. It's not from using steroids, I've never used them. Just wanted to let you know beforehand. The point though is by posting labs we can compare my testosterone level before the LGD and after, and see how suppressive it really is. I'm hopefully going to have a head MRI in the near future to check for pituitary tumors.
 
I'm in for this.... Sounds like your looking to do a recomp cycle so the LGD should be run for 6-8 weeks at 3-7mg IMO.

Good luck bro!
 
I was thinking liquid tam for PCT after, does that sound about right? At around 20mg ED for 4 weeks or so?

My rat has had great results with tamoxifen in the past, as I mentioned earlier my rat has some issues with secondary hypogonadism that we haven't found the cause for, but being on tamoxifen in the past has caused my rat's testosterone levels to go from being in the bottom of the normal range, to the upper end of the normal range! Right now we're looking at around 465 ng/dL which is low but within the "normal" range but not as bad as in the past. In 2010 it was more like 275. Need to get to the bottom of this problem at some point, but that's another story, this thread is about LGD-4033 ;)
 
The LGD-4033 arrived today!

I took my first dose, 5mg, and did a 10.2 mile hike today. Energy was great. I don't know how much of an effect it had. I'll have to see how things go in the gym starting Monday. I'll keep y'all posted!
 
I'm using the LGD from Unique and GW from SS.

If I buy more LGD I'll probably try SS next to compare results. I've been real happy with them in the past. I am not sure about Unique yet.

I'm running into a little setback. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I am feeling WRECKED. On Saturday I took my first dose, 5mg, then I took 5mg Sunday. Had that 10.2 mile hike Saturday, and killed it, felt very strong. However, the next day (Sunday) I was incredibly sore. I spent most of the day in bed, eating lots of food, taking Epsom salt baths, etc. trying to recover. As of Monday morning, I am STILL very sore and feeling wrecked. Sore all over, but especially my glutes and calves.

This surprised me because I do hikes like this on a regular basis and they don't usually wreck me this bad. It did have steep uphills and we went at a good pace, but still. It makes me wonder if I'm getting sick or something. I really hope the LGD isn't part of the problem, it shouldn't cause this kind of problem right? Man I feel so crappy I almost called in sick to work today but I don't know if I could really justify it.

Now, I do have one theory, maybe I experienced higher muscle breakdown than usual during this hike? I didn't eat enough for breakfast before the hike I think, for one thing. I had only about a 400 calorie breakfast which just consisted of eggs, that's it. Then before the hike I drank some Cellucor C4 pre-workout drink, which has no calories I think, just caffeine and creatine nitrate and Arginine and whatever else in it. Then at the top of the mountain, for lunch I had about 700 calories and another serving of Cellucor C4. For dinner I probably only had around 700 calories again, so I ate under 2000 calories that whole day. My SportsTracker estimates that the hike burned 3000 calories, so I probably ate way too little food that day for how many calories we burned. I'm wondering if maybe that caused some muscle breakdown so that now I'm experiencing sort of a mini-rhabdo situation?

Anyway, I'm really bummed because I was excited to hit the weights today, but I can't, I'm too sore, I'm limping around it's so bad. This will probably set me back a few days.
 
Just an update, it turns out I have a fever. I hope I don't have rhabdo or something. I went home from work early, I was having headaches and aches all over my body, neck, joints, muscles, etc. Don't know if it's related to the LGD or not, since I was feeling pretty crappy already Friday before I took it. I think I'm sick or something.
 
It's a nice idea to get labs done before and after but if you're stacking it then it really doesn't give any conclusive evidence to what LGD is solely doing to you. Now I don't know anything about those other chemicals' properties but I'm just going by the standard way any experiment would be done by eliminating all variables that can skew the results of what's being tested.
For reference, I started at 1mg and I'm up to 4mg now. I'd say 3mg seems to be the kicking point. Since you started at 5mg, do you plan on maintaining that or increasing it? Interested to see what you do.
Anyway, hope you recover from that fever soon. I like following these SARMS logs to compare all the different results with mine. :)
 
Mr.GoodNice said:
It's a nice idea to get labs done before and after but if you're stacking it then it really doesn't give any conclusive evidence to what LGD is solely doing to you. Now I don't know anything about those other chemicals' properties but I'm just going by the standard way any experiment would be done by eliminating all variables that can skew the results of what's being tested.
For reference, I started at 1mg and I'm up to 4mg now. I'd say 3mg seems to be the kicking point. Since you started at 5mg, do you plan on maintaining that or increasing it? Interested to see what you do.
Anyway, hope you recover from that fever soon. I like following these SARMS logs to compare all the different results with mine. :)
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Well I was taking GW-50 before, have been taking it for months, so I think its effect on my labs will be smaller if anything. I was obese when I started the GW-50 and I've lost about 65 pounds since the beginning of the year.

I wasn't planning on increasing the LGD dose, just staying at 5mg, but maybe 5mg is too high? Maybe there's no point taking that much? What do you think? What did you mean when you said 3mg was the kicking point?

I feel a little better this morning, still don't know what is wrong but I'll go to the doctor if I don't feel right today.
 
testiclats said:
Well I was taking GW-50 before, have been taking it for months, so I think its effect on my labs will be smaller if anything. I was obese when I started the GW-50 and I've lost about 65 pounds since the beginning of the year.

I wasn't planning on increasing the LGD dose, just staying at 5mg, but maybe 5mg is too high? Maybe there's no point taking that much? What do you think? What did you mean when you said 3mg was the kicking point?

I feel a little better this morning, still don't know what is wrong but I'll go to the doctor if I don't feel right today.
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I meant 3mg was when I started to feel a substantial strength and endurance increase. Doses lower than that was to get my body acclimated to it; I like to start cautiously incase adverse effects arise. I stayed at 3mg for a few weeks, now I'm at 4mg for a few weeks, and will finish off at 5mg for my first run. This seems to be the upper limit most are reporting to use. Perhaps on my next run I'll try to dose a bit higher but it all depends on how much more this study evolves and what new data we'll have in the coming months. LGD's structure is still unpublished to my knowledge so a lot might change by then, especially with more labs bringing their own version of it to market.
 
Hi all, just an update:

I've been running the LGD-4033 and GW-501516 for 7 days now, and I'm almost over the sickness I had, so I'll be hitting the gym again starting Monday.

However, I've been having some trouble. I don't know if this is caused by the GW, or the LGD, or neither, but... All week I've been feeling more muscle cramps than would seem normal. For example last night I did some pullups and pushups, felt a really noticeable muscle pump, then I tried to go for a run but my calves started cramping up after less than a mile, even though I have been resting all week, eating a lot of clean food, and drinking lots of water.

I might need to try cutting out the GW or the LGD or both and figure out what is going on with the cramping. Even when I did the pull ups, I just tested my max reps of strict pull ups to see if I had gotten any stronger since last week, and I did 24, normally I can do 21, so maybe I'm a little stronger... But after doing them, my biceps were twitching a little, like mini-cramps / spasms...

So yeah, something weird is going on with the cramping. Not sure what. Any ideas?
 
those are called pumps bro. and they are a great thing cause it means you are shuttling in nutrients and blood into the muscle which will aid growth.

you can reduce pumps by taking taurine.. n2guard and also straight taurine from mr supps will help..

this is great to hear though proves this shit works
 
stevesmi said:
those are called pumps bro. and they are a great thing cause it means you are shuttling in nutrients and blood into the muscle which will aid growth.

you can reduce pumps by taking taurine.. n2guard and also straight taurine from mr supps will help..

this is great to hear though proves this shit works
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Well there were 2 things going on, the cramps and the pumps. You're not saying pumps are the same thing as cramps are you? I've heard of taurine helping prevent cramps. Pumps are nice but cramps aren't nice and are no help. I've had pumps before without cramps, I don't think they are the same thing at all.

I have an idea though what might be causing the cramps. Recently I started taking Cellucor C4 Extreme, which has a lot of caffeine in it. Some people get cramps from caffeine. I'm going to try going off of caffeine this coming week and see if the cramps go away.

The cramps are no good, they make it so I have to stop running or lifting or whatever workout I'm doing. I've tried drinking more water, more salt intake, more potassium, more calcium, more magnesium, nothing has worked. I'm going to try cutting out caffeine next. Normally I ingest at least 500mg or more of caffeine per day if you combine energy drinks, diet coke, and C4 Extreme which by itself has 200mg of caffeine per scoop. I was taking 2 scoops an hour before workouts for a while there. This much caffeine, maybe that's the problem. Also the energy drinks usually have taurine in them, whereas the C4 Extreme doesn't, so maybe that's why adding the extra caffeine from the C4 might cause more cramps if I'm sensitive to caffeine?

Another item of interest, I've had my genes analyzed by 23andme.com and one genetic trait they found is that I'm a slow metabolizer of caffeine, so it stays in my system longer than normal. For what it's worth. Maybe that means I shouldn't take so much of it.
 
Hi all, I have had 2 gym days so far this week without caffeine. I stopped caffeine Saturday so I've been off for 4 days now.

No cramps so far in the gym. I think I was having a bad reaction to the caffeine. Things are going pretty well in the gym considering I took a whole week off! My cardio conditioning suffered a little but strength looks good so far. I did 4 bar muscle-ups in a row which is the most I've done so far, I did 3 once before but they felt easier this time.

Another thing I noticed since cutting out the caffeine is my heart feels better. I didn't even notice my heart at all. Normally it sometimes feels like it's beating out of my chest or even a little sore like it's overworked or something. The last couple of days in the gym I have had a hard time catching my breath and getting enough air (cardio conditioning?) but have not even noticed my heart at all, it's just doing its thing with no problems. I think the caffeine is bad news for me, at least in the doses I was taking. So for the time being I will completely be off caffeine during this cycle.

Another very noticeable thing, however, is an increase in appetite. I feel like I want to eat everything in the house. Last night for example I had a nice reasonable paleo dinner after working out, probably around 500 calories. Then I couldn't sleep, all I could think about was how hungry I was. So I got up and had a bowl of steel cut oats with a scoop of protein powder and a little butter in it. I call it "broatmeal" haha... Protein oatmeal, bro... After 1 bowl I still couldn't take it and I ate a 2nd bowl! Yikes. So I totaled it up, that was about 700 more calories!

I'm not sure if I should be worried, I guess if I chalk this next few weeks on LGD off as a "bulking cycle" then I don't need to feel guilty, after all, I didn't eat more than 2500 calories total yesterday, even though I felt like I pigged out (big lunch, big dinner, etc). 2500 calories is not a ton for someone my size if you're trying to put on muscle right? I think just so I don't stress out too much, I will allow myself 3 or 4 weeks of "bulking" mode while I'm testing out this LGD stuff, and then worry about cutting after that. I know how to lose weight, I've lost over 60 lbs so far this year, I can always cut after this.

I'd prefer to gain muscle mass while cutting fat but I hear that is very hard to do... The hunger though on LGD seems greatly increased and it's much harder for me to control what I eat.

Another thing I wanted to mention: This might be my imagination, but I feel like maybe recovery is a bit accelerated on LGD so far. Take yesterday for example. We did squat cleans which worked my legs pretty hard. Normally, I get DOMS, my legs would usually not be sore the day I lifted, just tired, then sometimes they would only be a little sore the next day, then the day after that they would be very very sore. Well, yesterday, just a couple hours after doing the squat cleans, my legs were already very sore, tender, and burning, as if a day or two had passed already. By the time I went to bed I was thinking, holy cow, I am not going to be able to walk tomorrow I'm so sore! However, I ate a bunch of protein and oatmeal like I mentioned earlier before bed, then I also drank a gallon of water before going to sleep. The next morning, my legs are still sore but they are much much less sore than they were last night, they feel like they recovered significantly during the night. That seems faster than usual to me. We'll see if this trend continues but it would be great if this stuff makes me recover faster!

Oh I forgot to mention, I also took an extra 2mg of LGD-4033 with my protein and oatmeal before bedtime. Just trying to do whatever I could think of to improve recovery during the night. I figured if my legs stayed as sore as they were I wouldn't be able to work out the next day at all!
 
Just an update: Had a BIG PR today in the gym. We did 5 rounds of 5 reps of push press today, with the goal of increasing each round to find our 5 rep max. Previously my 3 rep max was 155 lbs, from about 3 weeks ago. Tonight on my 5th round I got 5 reps of 195 lbs! I felt very strong tonight. I have a feeling next week is going to be pretty intense.
 
Update: Don't have much to report, due to some nagging pain in my shoulder (bursitis I think) and, most of all, an achilles tendon injury or inflammation (not sure which) I have not been to the gym this week. I have just been doing some bodyweight exercises (pull ups, air squats, handstand push ups, sit ups, and push ups) at home until my joints and tendons feel better, I'm thinking by start of next week I can hit it hard again, hopefully.

What I can report is that this stuff definitely feels to me like it would help you gain weight. I've put on about 7 pounds so far, and I've been really trying to be careful what I eat, but the hunger is unstoppable. I don't know how much of that is muscle, my arms and chest do appear a bit bigger. I probably should have taken measurements or pictures from before I started. Anyway, the hunger is crazy, I'm just hungry all the time, I want to eat everything in the house. It's really hard. I am not sure if it is worth it for me. I have never been a hard gainer, if anything the hard part for me is cutting and leaning down. Putting on muscle and getting strength gains just comes naturally when I lift heavy, it might take longer without the SARMS but it happens.

I am not sure if this LGD stuff is worth it in my case, even if it speeds up my strength gains it is making me crazy with the hunger pangs. I'll stick with it until the 3 or 4 weeks are up at least, but if the hunger keeps driving me crazy, this might be the first and last cycle I try with LGD. Or I might try taking a smaller dose and see if it still helps without making me so hungry. Maybe 5mg a day is just too much. What do you guys think about that? In the study they only used 1mg a day, maybe I should scale it back to that dose.
 
Oh I forgot to mention one other thing, this is a really cool thing I seem to notice about LGD: It seems to be speeding up muscle recovery. I normally get DOMS but when taking LGD it seems like muscle soreness is a thing of the past. I'll have to see if this is really true next week when I do more lifting, but so far it seems like this stuff makes my muscles recover much quicker. For example last week I got a new PR on push press, 30 pounds more than I had ever lifted before, and my shoulders never got sore after that workout. Since I got a PR and it was really hard, I was definitely pushing myself, and when I push myself and lift heavy I always get sore from it, usually I'm sore the next day, then MORE sore the 2nd day, then it takes a couple days to not be sore any more. This time, I almost felt like I started getting sore the same day, then the next day I felt a tiny bit sore, hardly enough to notice, then it was done, no more soreness. I was really surprised. Anyway so far it seems like muscle recovery is amazing with this stuff.
 
testiclats said:
Oh I forgot to mention one other thing, this is a really cool thing I seem to notice about LGD: It seems to be speeding up muscle recovery. I normally get DOMS but when taking LGD it seems like muscle soreness is a thing of the past. I'll have to see if this is really true next week when I do more lifting, but so far it seems like this stuff makes my muscles recover much quicker. For example last week I got a new PR on push press, 30 pounds more than I had ever lifted before, and my shoulders never got sore after that workout. Since I got a PR and it was really hard, I was definitely pushing myself, and when I push myself and lift heavy I always get sore from it, usually I'm sore the next day, then MORE sore the 2nd day, then it takes a couple days to not be sore any more. This time, I almost felt like I started getting sore the same day, then the next day I felt a tiny bit sore, hardly enough to notice, then it was done, no more soreness. I was really surprised. Anyway so far it seems like muscle recovery is amazing with this stuff.
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Same experience with Osta (soreness in muscle).
 
Is there any way LGD-4033, or S4, or GW-501516 would cause joint pain or tendon pain? I seem to have been experiencing more of these kind of problems since starting LGD-4033. I used to never even think about my joints doing crossfit but lately it seems like they get sore a lot or I strain tendons easier than I'd expect.

I've done GW cycles before so I don't think it's that, but this is the first time I've been on S4 or LGD.
 
Just checking in, got back to the gym today after missing all of last week due to a hurt Achilles tendon. Got a new front squat PR, 245 lbs 1 rep max front squat, previous max was 225, so I am seeing some strength gains. Will keep you posted whether I get any other PR's as the week goes on.

Did a 10.5 mile hike Saturday that was pretty steep, to the top of the highest mountain in the state. Today (2 days later) I have some soreness but nowhere near what I'd normally have after a hike like that. It seems to me that LGD-4033 is making a noticeable difference with muscle recovery time.
 
Running LGD-4033 right now as well and the muscle recovery times are definately alot faster. Also to add to the tendon pain, my joints have felt amazing, but tendon pain has been experienced within a pre-existing injury - however this might be due to lifting heavier on cycle. Make sure you are run a joint supplement as a staple and ofcourse some omega 3's to keep everything nice and wet.
 
Thanks for the advice. It's funny, I actually started taking high doses of fish oil capsules again for the omega 3's and... It could be my imagination or coincidence, but after only 5 days on fish oil, my joints feel better. Can it work that fast?

I've also been taking glucosamine + MSM, and eating more gelatin (Jello). Something seems to be helping.
 
I have my fish oil daily, however on holidays I went without for a fortnight and upon return within a week of recommencing using fish oil, my joints felt alot smoother and generally alot better - so really comes down to the person however the science/studies states it can take weeks to notice the benefits. Glucosamine + MSM are a must have, especially if lifting heavy shit bro!
 
OK I may have spoken too soon about DOMS! We did front squats on Monday and I got a new PR, however, I was not used to this level of intensity that we did that day, and I have some INTENSE fiery burning DOMS today in my quads, glutes, hammies, and calves. We have deadlifts programmed for today and honestly I think I might have to skip, the soreness is bad enough that my legs buckled a couple times walking around today so there is some weakness involved.

Hopefully this is just my body not being used to an increased level of intensity? After we maxed out on front squats we dropped the weight down to 135 lbs. and I did a total of 56 reps of front squat. I am hoping the intense DOMS are just a sign that I'm out of shape from the time off due to injuries.

I'm reading more and going to add BCAA's and L-Arginine to my supplements as well, and I recently started taking whey isolate immediately after the workout to try and further minimize muscle breakdown.
 
All DOMS means is you beat the hell out of your muscle fibers and created micro tears. This is how you grow! Just give the legs adequate rest so they can recover and grow.

This is a great log by the way. Have you thought about using ostarine in pct? "Sarms1" is the new board sponsor and the quality is suppose to be the best out there
 
Jbranken said:
All DOMS means is you beat the hell out of your muscle fibers and created micro tears. This is how you grow! Just give the legs adequate rest so they can recover and grow.

This is a great log by the way. Have you thought about using ostarine in pct? "Sarms1" is the new board sponsor and the quality is suppose to be the best out there
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Thanks, Yeah I might order some Ostarine for PCT, heard good things...

I wanted to mention another thing - The vision sides from the S4 have gotten really noticeable! Even in the daytime when I go from bright sunlight, to darker indoors like in a restaurant, I'm almost blind for a few seconds and it takes my eyes a few minutes to fully adjust to where I can see well... Crazy stuff, I will not miss the vision sides. The good thing is my night vision has been fine on S4 once my eyes are adjusted, it just takes my eyes a lot longer to adjust between light and dark.
 
Just a quick update - My endo had to postpone my appointment so I won't get updated bloods as soon as I expected, I should get them around Nov. 3 or so. This will be interesting to see how much suppression has been caused by the LGD. I am running a fairly high dose so I'm curious what the suppression will be.
 
Try lowering your s4 dose for a few days. What are you dosing it at now?
 
OK, good news and bad news.

Good news is, I got blood drawn today, so I will have new bloodwork results soon. I should have the Total T results tomorrow or Monday, whereas the rest of the hormone panel might take a week or two, since I ordered the rest through my Dr. who is always booked solid weeks in advance. At least we will be able to look at the Total T and see how LGD affected my natural T levels in the approx. 3 weeks that I took it.

The bad news is, I think this is the end of this LGD cycle for now. I may do another cycle later, but I feel too crappy. This LGD stuff makes me feel overall worse than I felt before starting on it. Basically I'm gaining weight but it's like a constant struggle to force myself to go to the gym, I just feel tired and hungry all the time. I can't stop eating, this stuff makes me feel like a pig. My belly is getting bigger and I'm tired all day. Yes I think I'm getting strength gains from it, but at what cost? I feel so crappy and my cardio has gotten worse, not better.

I suspect what we'll see in my labs is that LGD probably suppressed my T levels down to levels that are so low they are making me feel like crap. I already had low T to begin with so maybe this stuff is not for me, or maybe I should use a lower dosage next time, or combine it with more supportive chemicals to keep my T levels healthy. This is a guess, we will see what the labs show soon!

Bottom line, even though I got some strength gains, I feel so crappy that I need to take a break from it and try to get back to feeling normal again. I can't function like this, too hungry, irritable, tired, depressed, etc. Besides, I said in the beginning I was going to try a 3 week cycle, and it has been 3 weeks, and I HAVE gained a few pounds of muscle, so it's not like this was a waste of time. I'm just done with it for now, I need to switch gears for a while.

IF I do another LGD cycle I am thinking I'd try it at 1mg ED instead of 5mg. As far as I know there have been no human studies done with 5mg ED and maybe it's doing something harmful to my body. I'll probably stay on the GW-501516 because I have never had anything but positive effects from taking that stuff, but no more LGD or S4 for now, I'm going to do a PCT and see if I can get back to feeling normal again and enjoying life. I feel like the last 3 weeks have been a struggle.

Another thing that scared me a little was I went back and re-read the study out there where they did human trials with LGD-4033 at 1mg ED. Previously when I read the study and saw how much it suppressed the test subjects' T levels, I was looking at the Free Testosterone levels, and thought those were the TOTAL testosterone levels. So I misunderstood the graph and it looked like the suppression was pretty minor. But no, I looked again and this time read the graphs right, and the Total T suppression was something like 300 ng/dL, very significant! That's like, 3/4 of the T levels I started with! If it suppresses my levels that much, that doesn't leave me with much T in my system AT ALL. That could make me really feel like crap. Anyway, I probably need to keep pursuing with my endo to try and figure out why my T levels are low anyway before experimenting any more with LGD (for example, we have not done a brain MRI yet, I could have a pituitary tumor).
 
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One more note, I am now 201 lbs, so I have gained approx. 11 pounds in the last 3 weeks. Don't know how much of it is fat, muscle, water, etc. I have one of those handheld body fat percentage meters that use electricity but they really aren't very accurate.

Some of it is probably muscle, but my waist is 2 inches larger than when I started so I gained some fat as well :(
 
I'm running LGD right now at 5 mg a day along with GW at 20mg a day. Total opposite from you. I feel great and am bigger and leaner. I'm 15 days in. Taking it for only 3 weeks and missing multiple workout days doesn't really seem like a fair way to judge it IMO.
 
Currently running LGD @ 5 mg per day, energy levels are great and actually raised throughout the day. I have been eating a calorie surplus diet, but good quality wholefood and definately gained bodyfat. Bloat is noticable on LGD, however im running LGD standalone, zero cardio whilst on cycle and the weight gains expected - however the strength gains have been insane this week.

Definately noticed libido taking a dive once upped dosage from 3mg, also the gonads are slightly smaller.........but have all the required supps and solid pct dialled so not too fussed.
 
Well I feel how I feel, since starting it I have gained muscle but I feel crappy, why? Who knows. Maybe the bloodwork will point to what is going on. I don't see any point going longer than 3 weeks though unless I figure out why I feel so crappy. If I stop taking it and I still feel crappy then at least I'll know it was something else.

It still has been useful, I have made strength gains since I started taking it and I can tell my chest and biceps are bigger. I wish I had taken bicep and chest measurements before I started. Also got some PR's in the gym so it has shown it anabolic effects.

I still have tons of it left, I can always run another cycle later if I figure out what's going on with my body.
 
The important thing here is that you're listening to your body and making the best decision for your wellbeing. I think it's more courageous to know when to walk away versus trying to muster up bravado to break a PR with possible ill repercussions. Well done.
 
Just an update - I dragged my ass to the gym tonight even though I felt like shit warmed over. I ended up having a great workout. I got 3rd place on today's scoreboard at my gym out of about 25 men, and the 2 guys who did better than me are both guys who work out a LOT more than I do (one of them is the TRAINER, and the other is a guy who works out 2 or 3 times a day), so I was pretty happy about that... Basically I was neck and neck with guys who are usually in a different league than me. I also was able to do 5 bar muscle-ups in a row, which is a new PR for me, most I have done in the past is 3 in a row. They almost felt easy today, like oh, muscle up? No biggie... Yeah I felt STRONG today.

All the evidence seems to point to LGD-4033 getting me strength gains. I just don't feel comfortable staying on it any longer until I figure out what is going on with my energy levels, mood, libido, headaches, bad sleep, constant hunger pangs, etc. which have all been pretty bad lately. Hey who knows, maybe the LGD had nothing to do with these problems, but until I do some more digging with the help of my doctor I'm going to lay off it for a while. But I think all other health indicators aside, I think we can definitely say that LGD helped me put on muscle and get measurably stronger in 3 weeks, and that is significant IMO.

I've got a nice stash of LGD sitting in my fridge if I ever want to run another cycle ;) I think if you consider how often I went to the gym during the 3 weeks I ran LGD, my strength gains are pretty hard to argue with, I am convinced the LGD works. It's not just the PR's, I can feel my chest and arms are harder, my T-shirts fit tighter around the chest and shoulders, etc. Even in only 3 weeks.
 
I have a theory, let me see if this makes sense to you guys... Since I have some kind of secondary hypogonadism issue where my T levels are naturally low to begin with, due to low LH levels, is it possible that the reason I have trouble on LGD is because with my T levels already low, the extra suppression caused by LGD is enough to make me feel like crap?

Or to put it another way, let's use an example, say someone with normal, healthy T levels has a natural T level of 800 ng/dL to begin with, then they start taking LGD-4033. Let's say the LGD suppresses their T levels by 300 ng/dL, like it did in the human trials. That would take them down to 500 ng/dL. That's lower, but still not terrible, still within the "normal" range.

Now let's take ME. When I started this log, my T level was only around 465. If LGD-4033 lowered my T levels by 300 ng/dL, that would leave me at 165 ng/dL, which is far below the bottom of the "normal" range. Maybe this is why I feel so down in the dumps lately, and some guys are taking LGD-4033 and feeling great?

It's just a theory, and we will have bloodwork very soon, which will either back up this theory or disprove it, right? ;) If I'm lucky I'll have the total T test results tomorrow or Monday. The complete hormone panel will come back around Nov. 2 when my next endo appointment is.

I wish more guys who are testing LGD-4033 on themselves would get bloodwork done so we could compare notes as to how much suppression people are really getting when they take this stuff. Not just guesswork like "my nuts don't feel smaller" etc., actual data would be nice.
 
I've been taking LGD at 10mg/day (5am/5pm) and I tired and sleepy all day long. I'm also on TRT so it should not suppress my T levels below normal. I'm going to stop taking LGD for a few days and see how I feel.
 
Results are in for Total Testosterone:
Before: 465 ng/dL
After 3 weeks: 79 ng/dL

So I'm completely shut down. No wonder I feel terrible. I can't function at this level.

Started Tamoxifen last night for PCT, I will keep you posted on recovery. I need some serious pct here. I'm thinking of running HCG as well (I have some). Any suggestions for pct protocol are welcome. I have also used triptorelin before for pct and had great results with that, but I may save that "reset" for later, after prepping my system first with hcg and tamox.

I have in the past been able to get my testes to produce about 1000 ng/dL just by using tamox plus triptorelin, so I'm sure I can get things started again.
 
I'm a bit confused? If your still taking LGD shouldn't your T levels be higher, unless LGD doesn't register as testosterone on a lab test.
 
Are you running HCGenerate along side your LGD. This should combat your lethargy "crappy feeling" and make you feel good again.
 
LGD doesn't show up as testosterone in lab tests.

I don't have any HCGenerate, or know what it is, I would have to read up on it. I only know it's advertised like crazy around this forum so I'm curious what exactly it is. I see there is a sticky about it, I'll read that. Honestly though since it's an herbal product, and since people are pushing it so hard here, I'm probably not going to try it, just being honest. That kind of situation tends to bring out the skeptic in me. But to each his own.

I'm also curious to get back my more compete hormone panel to see what my LH levels are. Do we know precisely the mechanism by which LGD causes suppression? Does it activate testosterone receptors in the hypothalamus causing lower GnRH and thus lower LH levels, or is it by summer other mechanism? Does anyone know?
 
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I'm my experience, sarms such as ostarine and Lgd did effect my total T but didn't have a drastic effect on LH so I bounced back pretty quick after stopping. That being said, we all react to these things very differently. But bro you need to run on cycle supports and proper pct's for suppressive steroids and sarms. HCGenerate and n2guard should be ran on cycle along with forma then run hcg before pct. Get a T boosting stack for PCT as well. Good choices are methyl eaa/test infusion, unleashed, test stack, phytoserms, DAA, etc. I'm curious what your E2 looks like as well.
 
Jbranken said:
I'm my experience, sarms such as ostarine and Lgd did effect my total T but didn't have a drastic effect on LH so I bounced back pretty quick after stopping. That being said, we all react to these things very differently. But bro you need to run on cycle supports and proper pct's for suppressive steroids and sarms. HCGenerate and n2guard should be ran on cycle along with forma then run hcg before pct. Get a T boosting stack for PCT as well. Good choices are methyl eaa/test infusion, unleashed, test stack, phytoserms, DAA, etc. I'm curious what your E2 looks like as well.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if my doctor ordered an E2 test or just a total estrogen assay :\

If I run LGD again I may try running those supports you mentioned alongside it and see how the bloodwork compares. But if anything I'd wait until next year. I am SO DONE with this shit right now. To each his own but ugh... I am WAY happier when my T levels are normal. This low testosterone situation I got into just made me miserable. I am pretty happy with my strength right now, I am going to focus on cutting for a while I think, and maybe if I try LGD in the future, do more support supps with it.

I hope that if nothing else, my log helps to show people that the LGD-4033 being sold by Uniquemicals obviously is potent and does what it's supposed to. The bloodwork doesn't lie. If it was bunk and didn't contain any real LGD it wouldn't have shut my T down like this. Plus I can't deny the strength gains I got even if I felt shitty the whole time. Got some pretty big (for me anyway) PR's in those 3 weeks. I am not a hardcore weight lifter by any means and I only started training in January so for me, the strength gains were more than I even expected.
 
Bummer bro, hope everything bounces back to normal ASAP. SARMS - LGD-4033 especially, shouldn't be taken lightly, cycle support, PCT all should be dialled in prior to commencing cycles - this is your body you are messing with and you should do all the available research prior to commencing to ensure the entire cycle is spot on.
 
You'll bounce back, I have no doubt. Do yourself a favor and beef up that pct. You're shutdown pretty bad and really need the extra help. A SERM alone won't do the trick here. Even if you just get some bulk DAA, anything will help
 
The weird thing is I didn't even realize my T was so low during these last few weeks. I've had morning wood, I grew out my beard this last 2 weeks, etc. Main way I could tell something was different was just low energy and lack of drive / motivation to work out, and slow recovery in my joints mostly.

It's surprising that the body can seem to function normally even when T levels are almost as low as that of a woman lol...
 
Maybe it was the lack of on cycle support or non-robust PCT making you feel lethargic. Either way I felt pretty good during the 8 weeks and now 2 weeks into PCT. I did a sort of "test routine" earlier today to see where I was at 2 weeks removed from LGD and strength was the same as I gained while on, while my flat bench and squat actually increased today, during essentially a full body workout. I still kept the same body weight. This is 2 weeks into PCT. I was also particularly tired today and worked out pretty late. I wasn't even planning on going but my buddy convinced me. Most of the time when I felt lethargic was due to a lack of sleep or food. Today was a lack of both. So I'm pretty satisfied thus far.
 
Well I had planned on using HCG for PCT, but the HCG I had ordered will take longer than I thought to get here.

So, I am using what I have on hand - Triptorelin. Pinned 100 mcg last night. By the next morning I already feel more like myself again. It's funny, you can kind of see my testosterone level in my face, when my T is running low my face looks different, softer, more puffy. By morning I look like my T is normal or high already. I don't know how many of you have used this before for PCT but I used it about a year ago and it worked really well for me. I'll post new bloods after a few weeks but I'm sure this will get things started back up.

Last time I used triptorelin it brought my T levels to around 900 ng/dL within a couple weeks, then after about 2 months it tapered off to around 500 ng/dL which is a pretty normal level for my body. I need to get my body fat % down lower, I think I could naturally maintain a higher T level if I do that.

I used to be 60 pounds heavier with something like 26% body fat and at that point, my natural T level stayed around 250 ng/dL. At 14% body fat it would naturally stay around 500 ng/dL without having to take meds. So I can tell body fat % makes a big difference. Losing 12% body fat resulted in double the testosterone level without taking meds for it.

So, there may be something wrong with my pituitary or hypothalamus, or maybe I just need to be leaner to sustain a higher T level. Dunno.
 
Oh hey one more thing I wanted to mention about my LGD experience:

I never had any gyno issues or any feelings of puffy or sensitive nipples while on LGD. I worried about that, but it didn't happen at all. I have had gyno before as a teenager, for unknown reasons, it went away after while, so I was worried I would get it easier. But it doesn't seem like LGD causes any gyno. Just wanted to mention this.
 
So if I have this straight, your results with LGD-4033 have been good as far as strength, bad as far as energy and motivation, and you've had blood work done which shows that in your case LGD-4033 has caused a pretty significant shutdown?

Interesting. This is really interesting stuff- a guy who doesn't use AAS logging LGD-4033 and getting legitimate bloodwork.
 
Yeah I would have to say LGD at 5mg/day causes a very significant shutdown, for me we are talking 85% reduction of total T after 3 weeks. Isn't this just as big a shutdown as you get from AAS?

As for bloods I tend to keep a close eye on my T levels and have them checked on a regular basis because I have had issues with secondary hypogonadism for years now, for unknown reasons. I am probably going to have a brain MRI soon to check for any pituitary or hypothalamus tumors, or empty sella, etc.

But I have never used AAS, the closest thing I've done is HCG, clomid, and tamoxifen. Never used HCG at high doses though, and my issues with low T started long before I tried any of those things, hell I tried those BECAUSE I had low T.

What we have established so far is that my T levels are very dependent on my body fat level, but even at what I consider a relatively healthy level of 14%, my natural T levels are not great, around 500. So there may be more trouble brewing somewhere.

On the bloodwork I had done just before starting LGD, all my other levels looked really good, cholesterol numbers were all perfect, nothing really obvious stuck out, just that my T was on the low end of normal, as was my LH which points to secondary hypo.

Anyway, just some background info there.
 
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I tried ostarine once before but I wasn't very scientific about it. I wasn't sure if it helped but it seemed to help with strength gains, it's wasn't really obvious to me like LGD was. It was hard to tell whether the ostarine was doing much, because I was so untrained when I started working out and taking ostarine, so a lot of my strength gains were probably due to improved nervous system function. You know how when you first start lifting weights after not lifting for years, you get strong really fast, and it's too fast to be caused by muscle growth, it's due to other factors. Anyway I didn't notice any shutdown with ostarine, it must be pretty minimal if any, but I didn't do before and after bloods with ostarine so I don't have any useful data.
 
Just a little update:

I'm 5 days into my PCT so far and to be honest, I feel really good. So far I'm on Tamoxifen and I took a shot of Triptorelin for a "fast pct" / restart. Could feel the difference right away. For those who haven't heard of or tried triptorelin for PCT, it is pretty interesting stuff. I don't really understand why it works with just 1 dose but it does.

For the last 5 days I have been eating really clean, no more intense hunger, and I've dropped 6 pounds and lost a little under an inch on my waist. There must have been some significant water retention on LGD or perhaps this was a result of the lower testosterone. My face also no longer looks puffy, it was starting to look puffy after 3 weeks on LGD. Strength gains so far have stayed. In fact I'm stronger this week than I was last week, and my endurance is back now that my T levels are better. And wearing my old workout shirt, the sleeves are tighter, my biceps feel like they are bulging out of the shirt. It's just a small difference but I can feel it for sure.

Joint pain has also gone away and I feel more flexible / less stiff. Everything feels so much better. I actually ran 6 miles after Monday's workout and would have run 3 more but I have to take it easy on my Achilles injury (which happened during the LGD cycle, as did a minor flare up of pain in my shoulder, probably a small rotator cuff injury).

I think in the future if I could run LGD while keeping my T levels within a healthy range, I would be a lot more happy with it. So basically better on-cycle support and test boosters, maybe I'd drop the dose down a little, get bloods mid-cycle to see if I'm getting shut down too much, etc. Just a thought. Seems like I would feel like a total beast if I was running LGD with healthy T levels at the same time.
 
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