Arioch,
It hurts my joints to reach back far enough to grab the bar, and I grab all the way out to the collars. I cannot do behind the neck presses, even with just the bar, because I cannot get my hands to the proper position.
I tried to alleviate the problem by moving the bar higher up my traps, and do high bar squats, but as bigokie has seen, this causes the bar to choke the shit out of me.
I just know, that in the 2 weeks prior to a bench meet when I don' t squat, I don't have the pain down deep in my shoulder's. Especially the right one (the one with the torn Rotator Cuff) I had an MRI done a few years ago, and the doc said it was torn, but unless I was a MLB pitcher, the surgery would not be worth it.
Although I have not mentioned it in the past, this is probably one of the major reasons, both for my shoulder pain during and after squatting, and why I am such a terrible raw bencher, and why I do so much better with a shirt. The shirt takes care of my shoulder for me, and I can just push, without feeling like everything is about to come loose, like I do going above 350 or so raw.
Manta Ray is a good idea. I think I will invest in one. Thanks for the suggestions.
B.