Just got T levels back

[easy]

First off, Let me give mad props to SPECTRE for advising me to get my test levels checked since I've had a vasectomy. Thx for the look out bro. You prbly just saved me yrs of no gains.

I went to my doc to get a regular physical b/c I suspected my test levels were low after talking with spectre. Normal levels are between 260 and 1000. Mine came back at 133. Going back to the doc monday for more blood work. He sz that if these come back low I'm off to the endocrinoligist for more tests and if they come back normal than HRT.

I've never cycled before so I'm just naturally shut down. I'm 28 yrs old 6' 240, but since the chop job i've been holding adipose fat like a motha. Now I know why. Point of the post is heads up to the guys that have had a vasectomy. You might want to have yours checked.

easy

 

[easy]

up

 

[Stillgoing]

Bros, there may be something to this. There have been previous threads on this. Another factor may be that natural test levels can drop rapidly after the 20s. Most bros that have been clipped are probably in thier 30s or getting close. I'm 36 and have been snipped. End of last year I was shut down hard after a cycle, and it took me 6 months and several HCG/nolv/clomid runs just to get test up to 400. I suspect that's as high as my natural levels will go. So, while that's technically in the normal range, it damn sure isn't optimal, and, I may have difficulty recovering to that level (I guess I'll find out, my last inject of this cycle was last night ).

Anyway, good post.....

 

[easy]

I just called my w/o partner who also had a vasectomy and told him to go get his checked. He too is holding more fat these days. Anybody know how much test the give you on HRT? I would like to have my levels at the top off the range for a change.

 

[easy]

^ for more HRT info.

 

[Lestat]

Bros, there may be something to this. There have been previous threads on this. Another factor may be that natural test levels can drop rapidly after the 20s. Most bros that have been clipped are probably in thier 30s or getting close. I'm 36 and have been snipped. End of last year I was shut down hard after a cycle, and it took me 6 months and several HCG/nolv/clomid runs just to get test up to 400. I suspect that's as high as my natural levels will go. So, while that's technically in the normal range, it damn sure isn't optimal, and, I may have difficulty recovering to that level (I guess I'll find out, my last inject of this cycle was last night ).

Anyway, good post.....

Fuck man, I'm 26 with natural test levels at 426.. no cycle history or anything.. if that isn't optimal then what's it gonna do at 30+! And no I've never had a vasectomy.

 

[Lestat]

I just called my w/o partner who also had a vasectomy and told him to go get his checked. He too is holding more fat these days. Anybody know how much test the give you on HRT? I would like to have my levels at the top off the range for a change.

From what I hear they start you off slow, with the gels at the lowest possible dose. Then they check and up the dose as needed, but the max without injections is still very low. And they wait until the VERY last minute to go the injection route.

 

[GoinDeep]

easy, I did the same as you (vasectomy included). I went to the doc suspecting the same and my bloodwork came back 225 which was low enough for my doc to send me to an endocrinoligist (133!You must have felt like you had one foot in the grave being that low?). The endo doc told me of the different methods, we agreed on the gel to start. So he gave me a script for 3mos. + 3 refills of gel 5mg and told me to let him know if this was working. I can definately feel the difference. But I believe I'm going to call on Monday and ask if I can get the needle. I need all the help I can get being 41 and trying to play competetive softball with the young pups.

P.S. I'd like to know how to get 100% absorbtion out of the gels.
I'm trying a little dsmo around the foot and ankle right now but it's a pain in the ass. Too bad nobodies tested out a way to make an injectable w/this stuff. I hate to waste 90% of it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

First of all, I could never understand why anyone would get a vasectomy. The idea of a sharp object getting within 2 feet of my testicles makes me shudder. And not to be the bearer of bad news, it looks as if men with vascectomies have a greater affinity for prostate problems too. Sorry guys. No disrespect or anything -- I'm just saying it as a warning to others.

The normal HRT is either the gel (expensive w/o insurance) or 200 mgs of T every two weeks. The thinking among ex "cyclers" has been 200mgs a week is better but personally, I found 100 mgs every 5 days to be optimum.

You can't get 100% absorption from the gel, just like you can't utilize 100% of what you inject. Instead, use Avena Sativa and/or Nettles to free up more bound testosterone.

 

[GoinDeep]

As far as the vasectomy, I kinda felt obligated after the wife was on the pill for 10 years. Also, I knew I didn't want anymore kids anyway. Don't get me wrong I had trouble with it and myself as a man at first but that feeling subsided as well as the slight difference in ejaculating (like being bount up). It is very relieving not having to worry about child support though.

I want to be a little more than normal. Hopefully the doc gives me the same quantity w/the injectable as he did w/the gel. I'll be set for quite a while.

I've read about the Avena Sativa/Nettles. I just placed an order this morning with BAC for some SEX-TIVA along w/some other stuff.

Yeah, I guess asking for 100% was abit much, I guess I meant comparable to injection.

 

[Stillgoing]

First of all, I could never understand why anyone would get a vasectomy. The idea of a sharp object getting within 2 feet of my testicles makes me shudder. And not to be the bearer of bad news, it looks as if men with vascectomies have a greater affinity for prostate problems too. Sorry guys. No disrespect or anything -- I'm just saying it as a warning to others.

If vasectomy means higher risk of prostate problems, well, that sucks....

However, whats the long-term risk of women being on birth control pills?? (not a rhetorical question, but, they are pretty powerful drugs, so, you might expect some issues). So, as partners, my wife and I had to make a decision. Further, after she birthed out 2 kids, its not right to be a pussy about a little snip. Its an easy operation, and I don't think I've been adversly affected in any way (unless it lowered my test, no way to know).

 

[Stillgoing]

Fuck man, I'm 26 with natural test levels at 426.. no cycle history or anything.. if that isn't optimal then what's it gonna do at 30+! And no I've never had a vasectomy.

Yeah, you will want to watch it, especially if you are experiencing symptoms of low test. You may ultimately make the decision to go HRT.

BTW, your signature, thats a Tool song right?? I know that line, but, its been buggin' me for a while trying to figure it out.....help me out here!!!!

 

[Lestat]

Yeah, you will want to watch it, especially if you are experiencing symptoms of low test. You may ultimately make the decision to go HRT.

BTW, your signature, thats a Tool song right?? I know that line, but, its been buggin' me for a while trying to figure it out.....help me out here!!!!

Yeah man, its a quote from Prison sex.

And damn.. at 26 I never thought I'd ever have to even think about something like HRT... I don't think I am experiencing any symptoms of low test levels though... what are the common ones?

Brian

 

[doublebicep]

Yeah man, its a quote from Prison sex.

And damn.. at 26 I never thought I'd ever have to even think about something like HRT... I don't think I am experiencing any symptoms of low test levels though... what are the common ones?

Brian

Here is an interesting self test for symptoms of andropause:

self test

The site suggests you print off the results and share them with your doctor.

 

[Lestat]

The only one there I would say is a slight loss of sex drive... but I just write it off as "I'm not a teenager anymore" I can't really blow my load more then once during a session of sex anymore.. even with someone new. I'd say I still have a decent drive though, I have sex and/or masturbate once a day on average.

 

[Zoomster]

It all depends on the individual, I am 44 and my test level is 435.

 

[sk*]

How is test level accosiated with amount of testosterone in your body?

Does a T level of 400 mean you have 400mg of test/week in your body? I am kinda confused, can someone explain?

-sk

 

[Lestat]

Maybe one of the Doctors on the board can help answer..

the 200-800 range is not measured in mg.. i'm pretty sure of that... its a concentration or something..

And i've heard that you produce 5-10mg of test daily or something to that effect.

 

[sk*]

I don't know the exact conversion rate but short answer is no. Your natural test. production is a very small fraction of 400mg/week. For some reason I want to say around 10mg/daily but I don't know why.

Yea, I always thought males produced somewhere around 100mg+ of test/week.

Does anyone know the conversion?

-sk

 

[MiniColemans]

The only one there I would say is a slight loss of sex drive... but I just write it off as "I'm not a teenager anymore" I can't really blow my load more then once during a session of sex anymore.. even with someone new. I'd say I still have a decent drive though, I have sex and/or masturbate once a day on average.

I'm sorry, that was just LOL to me when I read it

 

[Nelson Montana]

|
the 200-800 range is not measured in mg.. i'm pretty sure of that... its a concentration or something..
................................

It's measured in nanograms. And what they call the "optimal' range varies. Some say 200-900. I've seen it up to 1000 (although that is very, very rare) And 200 is too low. Incidentally, a higher level doesn't necssarily mean a stronger libido. It also doesn't mean a more anabolic enviorment, if the "free test " level is low.
...................................

And i've heard that you produce 5-10mg of test daily or something to that effect. [/B][/QUOTE].........................

Around 5 -- even less, but it varies. Replacement dose is 5, but much of it isn't absorbed.

A mg of test will raise blood levels approx: 2-3 ngs. So, a 100mg shot will give you between 200-300 additional ngs. (Give or take) it'll be much higher the first day and drop considerably after 5 days.

 

[DaMan]

It's measured as ng/dl (nanograms per deciliter, or 1/1000mg per 1/10 liter). The average human has 5 liters of blood, so you could multiply the test value by 50 to find out how many nanograms of test are in you.

It only measures concentration, not weekly production, though.

 

[easy]

Update**

Just got back from the doc for more tests. This time they want to check prolactin levels and some kind of folicle test???? Anyway, the lab girl saya they should have the results back in 2 days and the doc will make the decision to do hrt or send me to an endocrinoligist. The lab girl also says his standard HRT dose is 500mg of sust a month (1 shot). I'm thinking thats not gonna be enough to get me goin. Also, I'm almost to the point now where I'm gonna cross on over to the darkside and never come off. Anybody with advise on how to cycle on hrt. I just can't help but think all the hard work I've put in has been for shit.

 

[DTOX]

Update**
The lab girl also says his standard HRT dose is 500mg of sust a month (1 shot).

Hahaha!

Is your doctor in Mexico? I had no idea any companies in the USA were producing Sustanon!

 

[Sinistar]

i thought it was 7-10 micrograms

 

[biggerthanu450]

Nelson,
You mentioned using 100mg/5days. I was curious what your test measures at that dosage?
I am currently using the same amount (100mg test enanthate/5days) and my test stays between 800 and 1000 (high end of normal). This feels optimal for me in terms of libido and overall sense of well-being. My lipid profile also stays good at this dosage.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson,
You mentioned using 100mg/5days. I was curious what your test measures at that dosage?
I am currently using the same amount (100mg test enanthate/5days) and my test stays between 800 and 1000 (high end of normal). This feels optimal for me in terms of libido and overall sense of well-being. My lipid profile also stays good at this dosage.

..........................

Again, it depends on when the test is taken. If it's taken an hour after injection it can be as high as 2000. If it's taken a week later, T will be around 400. (Hence, the 5 day dosing)

When I was just on AndroGel (a more even distribution) is was consistantly just above 800. ( which is suprisingly high).

Once levels go over 1000, the protective benefits to the heart start to reverse and there's an increased chance of heart attack, so the 100 mgs every 5 days procedure seems optimum.

If sus were legal, 100 mgs every 7-8 days would work well. In fact, 100 mgs of sus a week alternating with 100 mgs of primo on opposing weeks would be pefect. Very safe and very effective.

 

[biggerthanu450]

Good points. I always get my test levels checked on day 4 after injection. I work in the medical field so I do frequent bloodwork, but I recently decided to try the saliva test kit by ZRT labs; I should get my results from that test next week.
I have also used androgel, but I noticed more hair loss and water retention, although I had applied it after using Finasol....so it may have been the tren.

 

[easy]

How does the time on=time off rule work on HRT. I'm guessing ban 8 week cycle would then just be followed by 8 weeks of regular hrt dose??

 

[biggerthanu450]

Yes, HRT dose would remain the same. this prevents any post-cycle crash, and helps you retain gains.

 

[DTOX]

Not to go off on a tangent, but something to keep in mind with HRT:

Slower the release of Testosterone = less side effects.

I would *guess* that as long as you stay at 100mg/wk or less of Test Enth, that you'd have less balding and/or estrogenic effects then you would using 10mg/day of the gell stuff.

I could be dead wrong though if the day after your 100mg Test shot your levels are 2000 when they should be 800!

 

[easy]

Not to go off on a tangent, but something to keep in mind with HRT:

Slower the release of Testosterone = less side effects.

I would *guess* that as long as you stay at 100mg/wk or less of Test Enth, that you'd have less balding and/or estrogenic effects then you would using 10mg/day of the gell stuff.

I could be dead wrong though if the day after your 100mg Test shot your levels are 2000 when they should be 800!

Man I need all the help I can get on HRT info. I'm sure when I get the rest of my blood work back today I'll be off to an endocrinoligist. What is the best and most effective hrt method and dose? I also don't understand how I would cycle on HRT because I would never come off. That can't be healthy can it??

 

[biggerthanu450]

Read as much as you can about HRT to educate yourself. Androgel is a good method, but I found that 100mg of enanthate every 5 days is perfect for me for the following reasons:
1) My lipid profile does not get altered as long as I eat clean and do cardio.
2) I continue to make steady and consistent gains without doing "cycles"
3) My libido and energy remain very high
4) I have no side effects, but I use finasteride and 2.5mg of femara/week (split into 2 doses).
5) This method is cheap as one 10 ml vial of Tornel enanthate costs me only $35, and lasts 20 weeks!!
Hope this helps you!

 

[DTOX]

Man I need all the help I can get on HRT info. I'm sure when I get the rest of my blood work back today I'll be off to an endocrinoligist. What is the best and most effective hrt method and dose? I also don't understand how I would cycle on HRT because I would never come off. That can't be healthy can it??

Which do you think is more healthy:
- HRT under a doctor's supervision
- A lifetime of low testosterone

Regarding the "best" HRT method and dose, it's probably going to be up to you to find out what works best for you; which one makes you feel the best.

From what little I've read on forums like this though, there seems to be a bit of a preference for self-administration (shots) of 100mg/wk of Test. But then you'll have to convice/show the doc you can do the shots yourself, and also that 100mg/wk is better for you than 100mg every 2 weeks.

Wish I could offer more concrete advise, but I'm still in the "blood tests & arguments" stage with my doc.

 

[easy]

Well I got the rest of my blood work back today and everything is normal except my test level. I scheduled my endocrinoligist visit for monday so hopefully it will all be resolved then. Should I ask my doc for 100 mgs of cyp or enan a week or should I go through all the gell business first. Also, for those who get injections, how hard is it to get your doc to let you do it yourself. I have no prob doing it myself but I don't want my doc to hold out b/c he thinks I'm a juicer since I can shoot myself. Just seems weird since I've never met this guy before. Hopefully he will be liberal.

 

[GoinDeep]

I played dumb for the most part and any knowledge I gave I made it sound like recent research if you know what I mean. My doc seems cool. He did talk about all the different methods. So I did have a choice right from the start but the doc seemed to be leaning to the gel. So I said okay and got the 5mg.
When I originally asked the doc for something different, because of the messyness, ineffectiveness, and chance for wife and son's voices to deepen on the gel, we decided on the shots. I lost contact w/him and got his secretary to get my script. I had my wife pickup my script for 200mg T enanthate two days ago (only 5ml blah, cost 30 bucks copay for this and a few needles). I didn't wait for them to setup a time to show me how to administer the shot. I did 200mg (I'd like to do this every week. I feel better than I have since my 1st cycle last year). One of the nurses called yesterday but I wasn't home. She asked about the shot. My wife told her she thinks I already did it and that I was used to giving shots because I used to have to give them to our dog (a little different dog's were just below the skin mine intramuscular but close enough). I have to call the nurse this morning to tell her. If you want I'll do a followup on how it goes. LMK

P.S. When I was given the script for the gel the doc gave me a 3 month script w/3 refills not bad to have for emergencies, lol. You can always opt for the shot like I did afterwards.

 

[easy]

How high dose the gel get your levels up. I really want to hang around the top of the scale for a while to get back some of the muscle I'v lost over the last yr. I think 100mgs of cyp a week would do me nice.

 

[GoinDeep]

5g 50mg testerone you get about ten % absorbtion they say over a 24hr. period. It comes in other sizes also.
PM back @cha too

 

[easy]

Thx bro. I'll let ya know how it goes. My aptmnt is for 9:30 a.m. so hopefully I'll have my first "steriod" shot around 10:30.

 

[DTOX]

Have you guys had problems with your insurance co footing the bill?

I just did some research and found that mine doesn't cover Test Enath or Test Cyp! The only thing they cover is androgel.

I don't suppose there's something my doc could write on the prescription to force the insur co to cover?

 

[GoinDeep]

DTOX, did you check your insurance's website for coverage? I don't think Androgel has been around as long as other methods. It would really surprize me if they don't cover some kind of injectable HRT. If not, I believe you might be able to get a script filled @ an online pharmacy for pretty cheap money.

 

[instant]

Mine came back at 53.4 pmol/L

what is that in ng/dL, or in the common units early on this thread

can someone convert this for me?

 

[DTOX]

I did exactly that.

I'm not worried about getting a script, I'm worried that I'll have to pay for depo-testosterone out of my own pocket 'cause my stupid insurance co won't cover it.

I'm just wondering if there's any trick like having the doc write "dispense as written" that can force the insur co to pay for it.

DTOX, did you check your insurance's website for coverage? I don't think Androgel has been around as long as other methods. It would really surprize me if they don't cover some kind of injectable HRT. If not, I believe you might be able to get a script filled @ an online pharmacy for pretty cheap money.

 

[GoinDeep]

DTOX

Mine has covered both gel and inject, no problem, just a copay. Patches are covered too I believe.
I don't know about any way of getting around what is not covered. There are companies that advertise just perscription coverage on TV for like $8 a month. You might want to try a google search for perscription coverage. Just another option, I don't know bro I hope you figure something out.

 

[easy]

Got back from the endocrinoligist and he wants more blood work. I ahve to go in tomorrow for 3 tests 20 min apart. H nehten wants me to come back next monday to decide what to do. Apparently, he didn't have all the info from the blood work he needed. He said he wants it done 1st thing in the morning when levels are the highest. What he doesn't know is I work at night and will not have been to sleep. I'm thinking I'll be lower than I normally would have.... It ought to look like I have no balls which by the way he checked for size and said they were fine. I think he just wanted to see my unit

 

[GoinDeep]

With your other bloodtest @ 133, he probably wanted to see if you had a pussy down there, lol j/k.
I think your right about the levels being lower for you in the morning. Who knows it might take 200mg a week to bring your levels up to acceptable levels. Your a young pup to be taken test for life. I sure would be asking the doc what the effects of long term therapy would be. Come to think of it I never even asked mine of any ill effects besides shutting most if not all of my own production down. I had the bloodwork drawn 4 different times; 6 vials for my regular doc (2 got lost somehow going to insurance lab I think); and 2 for the E doc. Cheerup they'll make a man outa you yet.

 

[easy]

well so far I've had 9 vials + whatever the E doc takes tommorow. With all this vien stickin maybe I should ask for black tar instead of test...

 

[GoinDeep]

Yar I here that once they take beyond 12 viles it means they really just don't know why your still standing. Wouldn't you think that four or five would be enough. I mean do blood levels really change that much?

 

[easy]

I don't know but I'm gettin tired of this shit. Bitch wore me out today. I look like a junkie... Now I have to wait till monday for the results. My wife keeps buggin the shit out of me b/c she thinks I have a tumor blocking my pituitary. She also thinks I'm gonna kill over quicker b/c i'll be on test for so long. I need some info on long term effects of hrt vs. low test levels for long periods of time (NOT GHTAT IT WIL SWAY MY DECISION ANY).

 

[DTOX]

Easy, your doc must be at the opposite end of the spectrum of mine. All mine cared about was Test and Free Test.

I can't imagine what you'd need so many blood tests for; even if you're low on LH/FSH and/or too much estrogen, it doesn't directly address the problem: low testosterone.

Keep us updated!

 

[GoinDeep]

I've been searching for the long term effects of HRT. Most of the searches return replacement for women. Not to much on men. I have sent a few emails out to some supposed online Anti-Aging clinics to see what their response is on the matter. I also threw in some questions on how to get my insurance to cover HGH, wouldn't that be nice! Like DTOX says keep us posted, I will do the same.

 

[DTOX]

I wish I had an abstract, or at the least an url, but I remember reading about a few instances where men were taken off HRT (say 100mg every 2 weeks) that they had been on for a few years and their Test, LH/FSH, etc. all slowly adjusted back to what it was previously. So, if your concern is that HRT will "permanently" shut you down, I don't think that will happen.

Hell, look at the 300mg+/wk dosages they have to use for the Male Birth Control! --I don't think 100mg/wk is going to be a big problem.

And as if I'm not going off on a tangent already, there are some treatments for low sperm count that use 200mg/wk of injected Test. (How's that for counter-intuitive!)

Personally, the only thing I'm going to be keeping an eye on are my cholesterol levels. From what I've read, the closer you are to the 800-1000 level, the better, but once you go over it can really cause problems.

I've been searching for the long term effects of HRT. Most of the searches return replacement for women. Not to much on men. I have sent a few emails out to some supposed online Anti-Aging clinics to see what their response is on the matter. I also threw in some questions on how to get my insurance to cover HGH, wouldn't that be nice! Like DTOX says keep us posted, I will do the same.

 

[DTOX]

Talk about jumping through hoops...

My Total Testosterone was 243 so now my doc decides I need to get my Free Testosterone test before she'll start HRT...

I pray my doc doesn't keep this up and start testing my estrogen, LH, and FSH. (I'll ask for those after I get my lifetime scirpt for depo-testosterone. )

 

[easy]

Your doc prbly has the same twisted fetish for drawing blood as mine. My docs office called today(woke me up) to confirm my apmnt for mon morning. I asked if they had the results back from my tests I had on tues and she said "yeah probly". I said"can you plz check?" She said no that the doc would go over it monday. I almost climbed thru the phone to slap the bitch. Don't wake a man up and then fuck with his emotions...


Rant over..

 

[dieman]

My doc is just the oppisite,all he wants are the basic tests.Before my physical 2 months ago i asked for bloodwork to be done and they wouldnt include test untill I said i was feelin tired and low libido.All they did was total test and it came back 313.when I went in for the visit I asked about HRT he gave me a pamphlet and said to look it over.I told him i'd seen it and wanted to get started. he would only start me on the 5gm androgel.Last wk was 30 days and I asked for the follow up blood test.I wanted to get estrogen,lh,and total and free test checked.When I went in to get the order for bloodwork all he had on it were the test and free and lipid.i asked the nurse to have him include the estrogen.She came back and said he said that was a female hormone and he wouldnt order that test .OMG.
I need to find a valid medical abstract to show him why estrogen should be checked ,but i dont want to insult his intelligence ,and lose my cheap test.
The results of the follow up was test went up to 559 and free was 12.74.We had agreed to try to get my levels up to the high end ,upper 800s,so im gonna try to get injections.Ill tell him the gels dryin my skin out and its to messy.I hope I can get some decent injects from him.
Anyone have any idea why my free is still low and how I can bring it up???????????And what injects I might expect to get?

 

[DTOX]

I need to find a valid medical abstract to show him why estrogen should be checked ,but i dont want to insult his intelligence ,and lose my cheap test.
The results of the follow up was test went up to 559 and free was 12.74.We had agreed to try to get my levels up to the high end ,upper 800s,so im gonna try to get injections.Ill tell him the gels dryin my skin out and its to messy.I hope I can get some decent injects from him.
Anyone have any idea why my free is still low and how I can bring it up???????????And what injects I might expect to get?

Maybe you should have your doc give you a referral for an endocronologist if he doesn't start acting like he knows what he's doing.

From what I've read the Rolls Royce of HRT is Delatestryl. A cheaper alternative is Depo-Testosterone. I'd suspect they'd both be great though.

 

[easy]

This is starting to piss me off. My doc called me and said my latest tests came back at a whopping 347. he said that b/c this fell in the normal range that there wasn't anything he could do for me. he advised me to come back in a month for more bloodwork. I think he is a fucking vampire. Anyway, now i'm sittin around feeling like shit. I have an aptmnt with a different endo doc on may 5 for a 2cd opinion. It would be so much easier to just put my self on a self prescribed HRT. I think the fucker forgot I'm only 28.

 

[GoinDeep]

Whelp, I think I passed the self inject test yesterday. Nurse (PJ) and I agreed on a thigh inject. I think she just wanted to see my unit (blatantly ripped from "easy"), lol. easy just remember tired, low sex drive, depressed. I think the Edoc will come through for you. Hang in there bro. dieman don't forget about other family member concerns with the gel also. And DTOX thanks for letting me know I've got the Rolls Royce, nice ride indeed.

 

[dieman]

Yeah it ticks me off a little that he isnt that knowlegable about HRT,hes family phys.,but he did start me on when tecnically I wasnt below low norm.I called his office this afternoon and told the nurse we had agreed to try to get my levels high and I wanted injects.They have to be done there for $15+$12 per.
prob gonna be cyp. Ill find out tommorow the amount and how many per month.I also left the doc the ques as to why me free test was still low,Im thinking maybe high estrogen?BTY im 46.

AS far as a refferal to a endo im concerned that with my origanal level above norm,313 total,I might not get HRT.

 

[easy]

I think she just wanted to see my unit (blatantly ripped from "easy"), lol. [/B]

I'm wondering if I should ride it out with this endo doc or just come in way low at the new doc not even tell them about already seeing an endo.

 

[GoinDeep]

If it were me and my insurance would pay, I would see as many as it took to get what I felt I needed to make me feel better. You might want to mention to the new one your wife sent you and she is threatening a divorce.
Tired, Low labido, Depressed, etc., try to be convincing with out overreacting. Put your head down and/or don't make too much eye contact, try to let him say what is wrong. The docs know guys normally don't like discussing these type of problems.

 

[easy]

Sounds pretty solid. Dtox hooked me up with some ways to lower my levels and I work 2 16 hr shifts before my aptmnt so I will be running on about 8 hrs sleep in 3 days. I'm gonna try to be a zombie when I go in so I can get it started that day instead of having to do more tests. Atleast this time if they need more tests done I'll be so shut down they'll have to hook me up. (my estrogen is showing)

 

[DTOX]

My test levels were low enough they were clamouring to get me on HRT. I managed to talk away the patch (which they hated already) and androgel (which they were pushing on me) and to get prescribed Depo-Testosterone.

I haven't sat down and discussed the details yet, but I got the impression that they think they're going to be doing the injections themselves.

Has anyone had to convince their docs to let them do the injections, and if so, how'd you go about doing it?

 

[Iceburg]

First of all, I could never understand why anyone would get a vasectomy. The idea of a sharp object getting within 2 feet of my testicles makes me shudder. And not to be the bearer of bad news, it looks as if men with vascectomies have a greater affinity for prostate problems too. Sorry guys. No disrespect or anything -- I'm just saying it as a warning to others.

The normal HRT is either the gel (expensive w/o insurance) or 200 mgs of T every two weeks. The thinking among ex "cyclers" has been 200mgs a week is better but personally, I found 100 mgs every 5 days to be optimum.

You can't get 100% absorption from the gel, just like you can't utilize 100% of what you inject. Instead, use Avena Sativa and/or Nettles to free up more bound testosterone.

 

[DTOX]

thought I'd update this thread...

After discussing things on the phone with my doc I showed up for my first shot and discuss the details of therapy. Turns out my doc is totally into "front loading" (though he didn't call it that); he's starting me out on 400mg every two weeks. After 8 weeks, myself or my wife will take over the injections and my follow up blood test to check levels isn't for 3 months.

The shot was funny, the nurses decided they needed an 18g needle and I could hear them discussing it in the hallway. When the nurse comes in, instead of trying to comfort me she says "this is going to hurt". Oddly enough, the needle went in and I barely felt it.

 

[easy]

thought I'd update this thread...

Turns out my doc is totally into "front loading" (though he didn't call it that); he's starting me out on 400mg every two weeks.

Some people have all the luck...

I called and checked with my ins today to make sure they would pic up the tab for a second opinion and they were real cool. They even wished mee good luck in finding "The right doc for my needs". I was begining to wonder if she thought I was up to somthing.

 

[easy]

thought I'd update this thread...

Turns out my doc is totally into "front loading" (though he didn't call it that); he's starting me out on 400mg every two weeks.

Some people have all the luck...

I called and checked with my ins today to make sure they would pic up the tab for a second opinion and they were real cool. They even wished mee good luck in finding "The right doc for my needs". I was begining to wonder if she thought I was up to somthing.

 

[dieman]

"400 mg every 2 wks" sounds like you found the right Doc DTOX.Have you considered splitting that into 200mg per wk when you do the injects yourself?

I asked my doc to take me off the androgel and give me injects,now he wants me to get a second opinion from a uroligist.

Good luck with the endo easy.

Has anyone here used the avena sativa or nettles and had there blood tested to see if this took there free test levels up,and if so by how much?I also heard zinc would increase free test has anyone heard this?

 

[easy]

I also heard zinc would increase free test has anyone heard this?

I think thats solid info as Dtox told me to use copper to flush out the zinc to lower my levels. I'll bump this for dtox. He knows his shit about HRT.

 

[easy]

I also heard zinc would increase free test has anyone heard this?

I think thats solid info as Dtox told me to use copper to flush out the zinc to lower my levels. I'll bump this for dtox. He knows his shit about HRT.

 

[DTOX]

Has anyone here used the avena sativa or nettles and had there blood tested to see if this took there free test levels up,and if so by how much?I also heard zinc would increase free test has anyone heard this?

I was on ZMA when I had my first blood test. My Free Test ratio was literally at the maximum.

And as Easy said, I stopped using ZMA and started taking 4mg/day of copper... did a great job of dropping my free test levels for my next blood test.

 

[easy]

My apmnt with the new endo is may 7. Do you think I would have more luck going thru the urologist that did my vasectomy?? Anybody ever got on HRT thru a urologist?

 

[dieman]

Thanks DTOX Ill try the ZMA,thats zinc right?I need to do something to bring my free test up mine is at the low end(12.7).
What brand you use and how much per day?

 

[dieman]

Ive read posts on guys getting HRT from urologist but nobody i know personally.when my doc reffered me to a urologist I mentioned a endo ,he said that was a good idea too,but a uro is used to dealing with just mens problems.Ill find out on May 6 i have appt with uro.

 

[DTOX]

Thanks DTOX Ill try the ZMA,thats zinc right?I need to do something to bring my free test up mine is at the low end(12.7).
What brand you use and how much per day?

When I was using it, I was using TwinLabs. Truth is, I think all ZMA is manufactured by the same company so whatever is the cheapest is the best.

The dose is 30mg/day taken at bedtime on an empty stomach.

(Worked great...which is why I stopped taking it before working on getting HRT.)

You may want to also:

-Make sure your diet is about 30% fat; 10% of that in polyunsaturated/EFAs (and as little saturated fat as possible if only for health reasons).

-Make sure you get 8-9 hours of sleep.

-Change your workout to more of a powerlifter routine with lower reps (5-7 per set) and concentrate on multi-muscle exercises like squat, deadlifts and bench. This will increase your testosterone more than doing higher reps and single-muscle exercises.

 

[easy]

Ive read posts on guys getting HRT from urologist but nobody i know personally.when my doc reffered me to a urologist I mentioned a endo ,he said that was a good idea too,but a uro is used to dealing with just mens problems.Ill find out on May 6 i have appt with uro.

let me know how it goes bro. my next appt is on the 7th so any good info you pic up that I could use would be much appreciated.

 

[dieman]

let me know how it goes bro. my next appt is on the 7th so any good info you pic up that I could use would be much appreciated.

ok bro ill let you know,and if I get any usefull info out of it ill
pass it along

 

[easy]

I'm going in tomorrow morning to the new Endo. I have been taking copper to flush out my zinc and taking green tea to raise my estrogen levels(thx DTOX). I havn't lifted in a week and have been doing alot of cardio to raise my cortizol levels. I work all night tonight so I'll be on the board for the next 16 hrs if anyone has any last minute advice. I figure between all that I've been doing plus my lack of sleep (4 hrs today) and none before the trip I should be rock bottom. I'll probably stop off for a couple of beers on the way to really lower my levels. Seeing as how last trip I was rocking the bottom of the charts with no manipulation, I should be way under tomorrow. Anyway, wish me luck.

 

[dieman]

Good luck easy and let us know how it goes!I dont think you'll have a problem as long as your under norm .
My appt. with the uro didnt go well today.I went in because my reg doc wanted a second opinion for ins. purposes and before he started injects.Well the uro had my previous blood work and since I wasnt below norm,I was at 313 total test before androgel,559after,he said in his opinion I didnt need any hrt .He said he just got back from some godamn conferrence on hrt and he didnt think increasing my levels to high norm would help any.Of course he didnt tell me any of this untill he had a chance to stick his finger up my ass.Thats midwest doc for ya.
He did say he would go along with my doc on the androgel,so my ins. should atleast cover that now.No free injects tho bastards.Guess i'll just have to add on my own

 

[easy]

Sorry it didn't work out for you bro. You could always try to manipulate the levels and try again. I think right now I'd be happy with the gel. anyway, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[easy]

Update in the neverending saga to get my levels normal. I fianlly got my reults from my bloodwork from last wed back today. I was at a whopping 106. Doc is out of town till monday but wants me to get and MRI to make sure there is no pituitary blockage. Doc refuses to beleive my vasectomy has anything to do with the problem. HELLO!! I didn't have a problem till after my vasectomy. Anyway, at least now I know they'll put me on HRT so there is hope for the future. This whole process is really pissing me off.

 

[GoinDeep]

Hang in there bro. I was thinking about you the last few days but to lazy to type I guess. Good to here from you. I'm glad all hope is not lost in your search for balance.

 

[triggerfinger]

I am in the same boat. Docs are frustrating

I went to three doc's before I called an online doc. My test was at 305 and I originally went to the doctor because I felt like crap. I have all the symptoms for Andropause. I knew I had Low Test. I am 36 and the norm is 240-800( According to "them")
Doc1( PCP)-" Levels are normal"
Doc2 (urologist)-" Levels are normal, I think a psycharist will help, how about some Vigra""
Doc3( Endo) - Levels are normal I cant help you

Online doc- Defintly need HRT, I'll get you started on IM right away



I got tired of searching for doctors. These guys know very little about male HRT. My Insurance does not pick up the online doc but right now I don't care. I just want to feel better.

The plan is 200 frontload and then 100 per week. Take some blood in a month and see wher I am at

 

[easy]

Trigger, Being that your right on the lip at the bottom of the range, why not just manipulate your levels and go back to a different doc and try the ins route. I know I could have resolved this along time ago online but I refuse to let these fuckers tell me I'm normal. I WILL get hrt and ins WILL pay dammit. Sorry for the rant. If you need info on lowering your levels there are plenty of bro's on this thread that can help out. PM me if you need info.

 

[easy]

Doc put my script in the mail today. Not sure if its enathate or cyp but he wants me to do 200 every 2 weeks. I'll probly do 100 every week to keep better regulated. I have to go for an MRI on thurs to make sure the pituitary is OK. Aboat fucking time. This has taken way too long.

 

[dieman]

Hey,good for you bro.Glad to hear you finnally got what you need from the docs.From what I've been reading on HRT 100 a wk is the way to go too.let us know what this brings your levels up to when you get your follow up blood work.

 

[easy]

Just tried to get my script filled and they said my ins will not pay without preauthorization from my doc. So now I have to get my Doc to call my ins and hash it out with them in the morning. The pharm said its probly b/c depo-test is 112$ a bottle but I was under the impression that androgel was even more expensive. Anyway, yet another roadblock in the neverending quest for complete manhood.

 

[DTOX]

Just tried to get my script filled and they said my ins will not pay without preauthorization from my doc. So now I have to get my Doc to call my ins and hash it out with them in the morning. The pharm said its probly b/c depo-test is 112$ a bottle but I was under the impression that androgel was even more expensive. Anyway, yet another roadblock in the neverending quest for complete manhood.

I'm basically in the same boat.

My insurance has already said they won't pay for Depo-Testosterone, but I haven't yet had my doc call them up and tell them where they can shove it. Another doctor told me this:

If your doc writes a letter of medical necessity, it'll probably fly. Brief, 2 lines or so: "so and so has primary hypogonadism, does not respond well (or has skin reactions to) the topicals. Please approve use of Depo-Testosterone injections, such and such dose, etc, etc."

They just try to put road block in the way of them having to pay for someting. The stupidity is that androgel and androderm are more expensive!

...so next week I'll ask my doc to write my ins company a "letter of medical necessity" and see if that won't get them to pull their head out of their ass.

Regarding the $112: shop around. The local Walgreens quoted me the same and I just laughed in their face. I went to my local grocery store and they quoted me $58 for the same 200mg/ml 10ml vial!

 

[DTOX]

triggerfinger & easy,

Another thing I'll pass along from some of the HRT docs I've discussed things with:

100mg/wk may not be enough to keep you at "optimum" (800-1200 ng/dl) levels.

So if your follow-up blood tests show 500 ng/dl there's a very good chance your doc is going to say "that's good enough".

 

[triggerfinger]

Well I am waiting

Still waiting for things to go through.

Easy- Thanks for the Tips-- I searched around and can drop my test results if I want. For now I just want to get some accurate reading

DTOX- I am gonna try it the doctors way for awhile. I have a good feeling that he will do the right thing

Once I am regulated and my test levles are at the top of the range I am gonna do a FINA/Test cycle

The doc is not gonna like that but what can I tell ya

The waiting is killing me. I have to constantly fight off the urge to self medicate. My dark side is telling me to strat hitting the test now at 200mg/week until the doc gets me started, but for now I will try to have a little patience and wait until the script comes through.

The most import thing is my health and I do not want to make the docs job harder

 

[DTOX]

Re: Well I am waiting

The waiting is killing me. I have to constantly fight off the urge to self medicate. My dark side is telling me to strat hitting the test now at 200mg/week until the doc gets me started, but for now I will try to have a little patience and wait until the script comes through.

I thought you already found an online doc that was going to frontload you 200mg/wk and then put you on 100mg/wk? So what's the wait?

 

[easy]

Turns out the reason my insurance is dragging ass is b/c its injectable. My doc has sent off the info to my ins so It'll prbly get filled later this week. I went to the doc and got a shot thurs of 200mg cyp. I'm thinking that since my levels have been so low for so long I should be able to make some quality gains off this small amount. Been pondering if I should try to locate some D-bol and some more cyp and make myself a cycle and then use HRT fot maint. I'm thinking
1-4wks 25mg d-bol
1-8wks 200mg cyp
followed by 100mg wk cyp for life.

what do ya'll think.

 

[triggerfinger]

DTOX

I am waiting for the Doc to send me my stuff. He did not want to send the test without a copy of my Physcial. I called my PCP to get a copy and they wont give it to me, the doc need to call for it. In the meantime I wait. Things should go through any day now


easy- I think you should work on get your T-lvls to where you want them with the HRT. If you "cycle in between all the blood lvs will be off. Once you are all set you can do whatever you want. I think you should tell the doc what your are doing.( Although I would not tell him now, tell him after he gets your lvs straight)

 

[easy]

Called my ins today to see if they got anything from my doc. Ins said they havn't heard a word from my doc's office. I called my doc's office to see wtf was going on and to get the results of my MRI and got an answering machine. There are about 30 nurses at this office and I've never seen any of them doing anything but standing around talking to eachother. meanwhile I can never get any info I need and a week and a half later, I still can't get my script filled.

 

[Mandinka2]

As far as the vasectomy, I kinda felt obligated after the wife was on the pill for 10 years. Also, I knew I didn't want anymore kids anyway. Don't get me wrong I had trouble with it and myself as a man at first but that feeling subsided as well as the slight difference in ejaculating (like being bount up). It is very relieving not having to worry about child support though.

Was she only with you for each of those 10 years , you don'T owe here a thing if she was on the pill and with other guys dude.

 

[easy]

Was she only with you for each of those 10 years , you don'T owe here a thing if she was on the pill and with other guys dude.

She's his wife. I'm thinking he's been the only one "GoinDeep" in her. I think the child support comment was a just in case kinda thing. I could be wrong....

 

[Mandinka2]

She's his wife. I'm thinking he's been the only one "GoinDeep" in her. I think the child support comment was a just in case kinda thing. I could be wrong....

Dude , you're 28 years of age (we're actually the same age), I know women who've been on the pill for 18 years and more. Why should a guy take drastic surgical action becasue his (now) wife ain't bonin multiple partners anymore? I mean it's different if as a couple she made that 10 years sacrifice for him , ok in that case I understand , give a little take a little. But nature comes up with it's own form of contraception for older women y'know - menopause.

 

[easy]

My wife never used the pill and I never dated anyone who did so I really don't have any insight as to the dangers of a life on the pill vs getting clipped. Anyway, Doc called with my MRI results today and everything is cool. no pituitary blockage. He also said he was gonna call the ins to expidite my script. Finally some fruition in this plan.

 

[dieman]

easy,I hope your ins. is better than mine.my ins. is refusing to pay for androgel and this is after my doc sent them a letter.The ins. company told me that androgel and other test prescribed for HRT was an exclusion in my policy based on no coverage for sexual dysfunction.I told them it was not prescribe for that and there was nothing in the docs letter stating anything about sexual dysfunction.They said ,no matter it was considered experimental and all I can do is to appeal,which takes 60-90 days.What a bunch of bullshit.So I asked if they covered estrogen for female HRT and I got no answer.

You may want to consider just payin for the script out of pocket.$70 for a bottle of depo-test will last you 2 1/2 months @ 100mg wk.and its legal and legit.you should know after 2 bottles if this is gonna help you.IMO money well spent.If your ins does cover the test they will reimberse you for the money spent.

Did your doc say anything to you about cycling with HCG?MY doc said I could stop the androgel anytime and my natty production would come back,no need to cycle.Now since my ins is not covering I contacted several online HRT clinics and they all say I should cycle 3months on then 1 month off and use HCG for 1 or 2 wks while off.and do this all year.They say unless I'm over 60 I should do this cycle or risk bein shut down hard.I"m not sure wtf to do now.Are they just tryin to sell me more or is this sound advise?Anyone reading this thread that has any exp. with HRT please answer this.

 

[DTOX]

dieman,

Where are you getting depo-test for $70? The cheapest I could find around here is $94.

That's intersting about the 3 month cycle and then HCG thing... I've never heard of that. I haven't read anything about shutting down hard either at HRT dosages. Just about a 50% decrease in LH/FSH.


easy,

My insurance isn't paying for my depo-test either. I'm so happy just to be able to get the stuff, I haven't really thought about it! I figure I'll wait a few weeks and then start asking the doc to contact my insurance company to tell them to pull their f'ing head out of their ass.