is this board really the dumping ground of EF?

[silver_shadow]

this has been going on for some time now. just a few thoughts on this:
whenever the issue of a new mod for this board is raised, some of the older mods and vets come in here and lament that in "their time" things were much better and things have degenerated so they've stopped posting here. implicitly, the guys who make this board today are a bunch of 13 yr old girls who don't know anything about training. why is it so hard to believe that these boards are dynamic and that bro's (and sis') come and they go. they get replaced by some who also know their shit. we have some guys here who have lots of solid lifting experience behind them (and who are also big and lift heavy if that's any issue). why look back at the old times with nostalgia and say that only if NS, spatts, bfold, etc post here, then only is this board worth any time? this is not meant to put those vets down (bfold still posts some good info here now and then) but the point is that for whatever reason they don't post here and that does not imply this board is degenerate.
if this board is so bad and not worth posting on/moderating then what would you have to say about the AAS forum and C&C... not to mention C&C guys who never post much about training on a training site who then come here and shit on all the regular posters... some of those posters who ALWAYS offer good solid info and NEVER flame (i'll be the first to admit that i have indulged in the odd flame here and there, so i'm not sitting on my high horse here). and yet from what i see, some of those guys seem to be given more legitimacy here than any of the weightlifting forum regulars (thats my perception at least). as i said, is this the dumping ground of EF?
whatever i've seen on the AAS boards - there was a time when there was largescale flaming. but what i've seen now, is that mods like mr x and radar are quick to lock any thread before it's allowed to get out of hand. there was even a time when someone got banned and a few guys, pissed about it, started bombing everyone on the AAS board. mr x personally diffused as many bombs as he could.
this is not intended to start some more bitching, but merely to once again point out that we do need some proactive mods around here. we also need to bury the past. the class of 01, 02, 03, 04 are gone and the classes of 05 and 06 are here... we have no choice but to live with that.

 

[The Shadow]

No...I dont believe that it is.

However, to make the changes that are needed - its my and other's opinion that some folks *need* to go. Is the board, in general, ready to let the mods do what we and admin feel is best??

So...when we see a flame fest - do we lock it??

It's been done before and folks bitch about it.


So - imo - the board can be the best it has ever been - but it will require changes

 

[silver_shadow]

No...I dont believe that it is.

However, to make the changes that are needed - its my and other's opinion that some folks *need* to go. Is the board, in general, ready to let the mods do what we and admin feel is best??

So...when we see a flame fest - do we lock it??

It's been done before and folks bitch about it.


So - imo - the board can be the best it has ever been - but it will require changes

well, i thought that the admin and mods would decide on that and not the board members... thats how it should be.
flames have probably always been around on internet message boards and have to be locked... yes obviously some are going to bitch - just like they DO bitch on the other forums as well.

 

[The Shadow]

well, i thought that the admin and mods would decide on that and not the board members... thats how it should be.
flames have probably always been around on internet message boards and have to be locked... yes obviously some are going to bitch - just like they DO bitch on the other forums as well.

Just recently - there was a thread bitching about the state of the training board - dude got out of hand and began slinging racial slurs...he was banned for THAT. Then there were comments that he needed to be re-instated, as the board was lessened...

If the general bitching would stop as actions are being carried out - things would be mich better

 

[big4life]

For this board to succeed, and work as it should you need one thing, the free exchange of ideas. It doesn't matter if it's members or a mod, everyone needs to understand that they can learn something from everyone. People get tunnel vision sometimes when it comes to their preferred training method, and forget that we all are different, and what works for me, might not work for you.

Basically, everyone needs to keep an open mind when it comes to training, and be open to other ideas. Do that and you will have a good, informative board.

 

[xblitz44x]

To be honest, I'm not into the politics of it. I found this fitness website and found good information. I think the most relevant information for me is found on the Training section of the site so that's where I spend a lot of my time. However there are a lot of times where I need information on diet so I check the Diet forum, or porn so I check the Porn forum. I don't understand the Dungeons and Dragons mentality. I just want to learn more about how to accomplish my goals. The highschool bullshit doesn't interest or phase me.

 

[silver_shadow]

To be honest, I'm not into the politics of it. I found this fitness website and found good information. I think the most relevant information for me is found on the Training section of the site so that's where I spend a lot of my time. However there are a lot of times where I need information on diet so I check the Diet forum, or porn so I check the Porn forum. I don't understand the Dungeons and Dragons mentality. I just want to learn more about how to accomplish my goals. The highschool bullshit doesn't interest or phase me.

yea... i suppose there is always self moderation

 

[blut wump]

I still maintain that losing AI is a loss to the forum. He was brusque to the point of rudeness from time to time but his contributions were always sound. To lose him due to a Polish guy getting upset after having provoked AI to use a slur from a different race is perverse especially coming as it did from a general provocation from a bunch of disenfranchised members with Karma to burn due to the recent system changes. All tragic.

Yes, that thread should have been locked. Yes a mod who knew the people here would have handled it differently. Yes, AI was on borrowed time once we knew he has had issues with admin before. AI is gone. Some say good riddance and others await his new alter.

We all agree that the forum requires changes. You and admin already have the powers to make whatever changes you will. Someone is going to bleat probably whatever you do if it's done without the cooperation of at least one of the current 'in crowd' on here. There's also a general feeling that you, and the other mods who have visited recently, CasualBB included, unfortunately, don't know the people here and aren't likely to make changes for the best of the forum.

Please, Big4life, stop traipsing out the line of 'everyone can learn from everyone else'. In essence it's a truism. In practice, we have complete newbies being offered help from Olympic coaches. I've yet to see an instance on here where someone has arrived, demonstrated anything closely resembling a work ethic and been given other than help, links and pointers in good directions.

Personally, I prefer a hands-on softly-softly approach while there is hope it can work. Banning several members who still have good to offer the forum I see as a lesser solution to empowering a couple of members who are currently intimate with the community here. If they can't hold things together then you can always bring in the axe and start lopping heads.

Why is there such resistance, now spanning several months since Rick first raised the issue of EF needing fresh mods, to raising one or two Weights forum regulars to mod status? This is perplexing to us.

 

[The Shadow]

I still maintain that losing AI is a loss to the forum. He was brusque to the point of rudeness from time to time but his contributions were always sound. To lose him due to a Polish guy getting upset after having provoked AI to use a slur from a different race is perverse coming as it did from a general provocation from a bunch of disenfranchised members with Karma to burn due to the recent system changes. All tragic.

Yes, that thread should have been locked. Yes a mod who knew the people here would have handled it differently. Yes, AI was on borrowed time once we knew he has had issues with admin before. AI is gone. Many say good riddance and others await his new alter.

EXPLAIN HOW A MOD WHO "KNEW THE PEOPLE" WOULD HAVE CHANGED ANYTHING. ADMIN BOOTED HIM, NO ONE ELSE. THE ONLY MOD ACTION ON THAT THREAD, I BELIEVE, WAS TO LOCK IT - WHICH YOU JUST SAID YOU AGREED WITH. SO....I'M CONFUSED AS TO HOW AN "IN-THE-KNOW" MOD COULD HAVE POSSIBLY MADE A DIFFERENCE.

We all agree that the forum requires changes. You and admin already have the powers to make whatever changes you will. Someone is going to bleat probably whatever you do if it's done without the cooperation of at least one of the current 'in crowd' on here. There's also a general feeling that you, and the other mods who have visited recently, CasualBB included, unfortunately, don't know the people here and aren't likely to make changes for the best of the forum.

I'M NOT SURE HOW KNOWING THE PEOPLE IS RELEVANT TO THE CURRENT ISSUES. ACTIONS THAT ARE DIRECTLY AGAINST THE REQUEST OF ADMIN, ETC WILL GET YOU BANNED QUICKLY. THE ISSUES, AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, ARE BLACK AND WHITE, AND ARE OUTSIDE AND SHADING BY MEMBERS' PERSONALITIES.

Please, Big4life, stop traipsing out the line of 'everyone can learn from everyone else'. In essence it's a truism. In practice, we have complete newbies being offered help from Olympic coaches. I've yet to see an instance on here where someone has arrived, demonstrated anything closely resembling a work ethic and been given other than help, links and pointers in good directions.

Personally, I prefer a softly-softly approach while there is hope it can work. Banning several members who still have good to offer the forum I see as a lesser solution to empowering a couple of members who are currently intimate with the community here. If they can't hold things together then you can always bring in the axe and start lopping heads.

I HAVE CERTAINLY PASSED YOUR NAME AROUND AS A MOD. SO - WHAT, SPECIFICALLY, WOULD YOU DO TO GET THE FORUM IN SHAPE??

KNOWING THAT RACIAL THINGS HAVE RECENTLY BEEN MENTONED - WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY??

Why is there such resistance, now spanning several months since Rick first raised the issue of EF needing fresh mods, to raising one or two Weights forum regulars to mod status. This is perplexing to us.

DONT KNOW ABOUT RESISTANCE SPECIFICALLY.....SEEMS SLOW IN COMING THOUGH


BTW - caps used as I interlaced comments

 

[big4life]

Sorry, but that's the way I look at life. I can learn something from everyone. I've learned things in the gym from men, women, strongmen, powerlifters, bb'ers, and yes, even the most novice of lifters.

The point I was trying to get across is the way people here tend to put their training routine above anyone elses. How many times have new people come here asking for advice, and the standard reply is 5x5? Yes, I have tried the 5x5 with good results, but I have also tried other routines with good results.

As for AI. I didn't see his posts, as they were already blacked out from bombs, but racial slurs should never be a part of any forum, much less the training board.

 

[silver_shadow]

I still maintain that losing AI is a loss to the forum. He was brusque to the point of rudeness from time to time but his contributions were always sound. To lose him due to a Polish guy getting upset after having provoked AI to use a slur from a different race is perverse especially coming as it did from a general provocation from a bunch of disenfranchised members with Karma to burn due to the recent system changes. All tragic.

this is the reason why i am led to believe that that the C&C guys have been given leverage over this forum as well. one of them actually subscribed to that AI thread with the sole purpose of dishing out red k... get a life already...

 

[The Shadow]

this is the reason why i am led to believe that that the C&C guys have been given leverage over this forum as well. one of them actually subscribed to that AI thread with the sole purpose of dishing out red k... get a life already...

Where is that link/post??

 

[BiggT]

Sorry, but that's the way I look at life. I can learn something from everyone. I've learned things in the gym from men, women, strongmen, powerlifters, bb'ers, and yes, even the most novice of lifters.

The point I was trying to get across is the way people here tend to put their training routine above anyone elses. How many times have new people come here asking for advice, and the standard reply is 5x5? Yes, I have tried the 5x5 with good results, but I have also tried other routines with good results.

As for AI. I didn't see his posts, as they were already blacked out from bombs, but racial slurs should never be a part of any forum, much less the training board.

Just highlight the blackened posts and you can see them just fine. I will say I always liked AI, and I think he is just one of those guys who you have to get to know and understand. Personally, I don't use racial slurs and I have np patience for racism.....however, knowing AI's posting, I don't think he meant anything 'racist' by it, although, that word was inappropriate.

I agree there will always be issues on boards with training philosophies. On some boards, people post something about advice and all they get told is "WSB" or "HST" or "DC" or, yes "5x5" or whatever the most prevalent methods are on that board.

With the 5x5, I think it is pretty much generally stated here that is isn't a be all and end all program, but a good cookie cutter to teach people how to train lifts progressively and eventually program for themselves. It is simple and a pretty good choice for those seeking advice who really have no clue about proper training and who ask the most inane, repetive questions....it is a way to get them to actually DO something, then be able to answer those questions for themselves because they have actually trained with some goals and a plan for once in their life.

As far as everyone learning from everyone, I agree that all people bring different experiences and perspectives with them and that whether it is WSB type training, 5x5, DFHT, etc etc, all types of proper training can teach anyone at any level something new, but I will draw the line there because sometimes assinine FLEX Mag type advice like (use incline cable flyes with a reverse grip to bring out the upper right inner pec) will do more harm than good and make a newbie less knowledgable than before they stopped by.

 

[silver_shadow]

Sorry, but that's the way I look at life. I can learn something from everyone. I've learned things in the gym from men, women, strongmen, powerlifters, bb'ers, and yes, even the most novice of lifters.

The point I was trying to get across is the way people here tend to put their training routine above anyone elses. How many times have new people come here asking for advice, and the standard reply is 5x5? Yes, I have tried the 5x5 with good results, but I have also tried other routines with good results.

As for AI. I didn't see his posts, as they were already blacked out from bombs, but racial slurs should never be a part of any forum, much less the training board.

many of the regular posters are doing 5x5. there is a part in madcows site that says that 5x5 is just a starting point to learn intuitively about training and devising your own program. so alot of ppl will point to 5x5 as a good place to start. but there are lots of instances where someone will mention the training vault sticky as well... i for one have never done a 5x5 but i will still recommend it as a starting point for the reasons above. the one thing everyone here DOES discourage is bodypart 1x per week bodybuilding splits.

 

[silver_shadow]

Where is that link/post??

i'm not sure what you intend to do with this, but here it is
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6339752&postcount=76

 

[The Shadow]

the one thing everyone here DOES discourage is bodypart 1x per week bodybuilding splits.

why alienate bbers for whom that split obviously works??


This is an example of my previous comments about the pler vs bber ongoing pissing contest.

When Im not doing a strength cycle, I used a one bodypart per day split, and while I am currently on the shelf for physical reasons, Im certainly not lacking for size or strength.

If it works for someone - how can you discredit it??

 

[The Shadow]

i'm not sure what you intend to do with this, but here it is
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6339752&postcount=76

....you have an issue with someone wanting to send negative karma for the use of that particular word??

Why??

Folks send red k for much less...on this forum as well

 

[blut wump]

1) Locking it much sooner would have headed everything off at the pass. Velvett at one point seemed to have diffused the thread but left it hanging. I don't know whether anyone communicated with AI. He's always been amenable to reason.

2) I thought we'd moved on from AI. Lacking knowledge of whom you'd chop I was only able to make general comments but I was mostly concerned at mention of chopping several people. Especially at the likelyhood that some of them are simply members who could be guided rather than discarded.

3) I'm aware that some of the mods/elite-mods are in favour of promoting a Weights member to mod status and that I have been proposed as a candidate. My closing comments were directed mainly to Rick, Digger and George on whom it rests to effect such changes. I thank the mods who have spent the time to moderate this forum in the interim, you especially.

4) What would I/we do specifically? It's hard to answer not yet having sat in the mod seat. There is organization to do with regards to the training vault but those things can happen over time just with a bit of tweaking by members passing requests to current mods. In general, though, having mods on-tap to diffuse sensitive situations and available to take the responsibility to guide newbies would be a good thing as would having someone known as a regular contributor to act as a senator for the forum. These are amongst the things I see as jobs for a dedicated mod. You can chuckle now.

On the racial-slur issue and AI: at the end, I can see that it had gone too far and he was inevitably for the chop. The 'n-word' probably holds a lot more emotive force for those raised in the colonies than we this side of the Atlantic. As I mentioned in PM, words like 'guido' and 'wop' happily slip under the radar. BTW did anyone know that AI is of African descent?

 

[BiggT]

why alienate bbers for whom that split obviously works??


This is an example of my previous comments about the pler vs bber ongoing pissing contest.

When Im not doing a strength cycle, I used a one bodypart per day split, and while I am currently on the shelf for physical reasons, Im certainly not lacking for size or strength.

If it works for someone - how can you discredit it??

I think what people are referring to are the high numbers of frustrated trainees who followed those splits for years and read all the routines in FLEX and Musclemag and just spun their wheels by aimlessly trying to get sore, then they do a routine where getting good at big lifts is the focus and they grow all of a sudden.

A BB-split can work if the big lifts are pushed.

And again, when looking at pro bodybuilding, I think this board has done a good job of explaining WHY and HOW pro BB's can look like they do while not necessarily training optimally.

 

[BiggT]

....you have an issue with someone wanting to send negative karma for the use of that particular word??

Why??

Folks send red k for much less...on this forum as well

Again, I like AI, but he deserved red K for that stuff, lol....Those C and C ferries were just randomly Red K--ing posts that were training-related though.....Check out the Help me out bros thread by Fleabag.

Nobody on the training board really cares about Karma and being cool in the internet and that crap, but it is annoying when those people who generally just post inane nonsense in C and C come over here just to shit on threads.

And, I agree, the thread with AI and the use of a particular word could have been avoided if it were locked after the second post, which it should have been.

 

[velvett]

this has been going on for some time now. just a few thoughts on this:
whenever the issue of a new mod for this board is raised, some of the older mods and vets come in here and lament that in "their time" things were much better and things have degenerated so they've stopped posting here.

Just for clarification - new mods had been suggested for this forum but they simply have not been implimented yet.

There's a thread in the mod forum to address the issue here.

Thanks for being patient.

 

[silver_shadow]

why alienate bbers for whom that split obviously works??


This is an example of my previous comments about the pler vs bber ongoing pissing contest.

When Im not doing a strength cycle, I used a one bodypart per day split, and while I am currently on the shelf for physical reasons, Im certainly not lacking for size or strength.

If it works for someone - how can you discredit it??

it isn't about pler vs bber. there are a few bbers here who use 5x5. i have read (not here) about bbers using WSB style workouts. my point is not to say bbers are inferior, i just used the term to describe what ppl are used to seeing bodybuilders do... my personal opinion about bodybuilding routines is that a bodypart 1x per wk is insufficient - i'm with DC (yes, he is a bodybuilder) who prescribes ~ 2x per wk. if someone alternates strength cycles with this, then i don't see much problem, but if someone has done this throughout his lifting life and refuses to try another method, doggedly insisting that this is the best way, then thats another story... when i say that the majority here would frown upon recommending a bodypart 1x per wk split, i'm refering to the latter example.

 

[H_T_]

lol.

 

[silver_shadow]

....you have an issue with someone wanting to send negative karma for the use of that particular word??

Why??

Folks send red k for much less...on this forum as well

like biggt said... i don't approve of racism.

 

[The Shadow]

1) Locking it much sooner would have headed everything off at the pass. Velvett at one point seemed to have diffused the thread but left it hanging. I don't know whether anyone communicated with AI. He's always been amenable to reason.

I WAS OUT OF TOWN AND NOT ONLINE WHEN THAT HAPPENED...SO I CAN'T MAKE ANY COMMENT

2) I thought we'd moved on from AI. Lacking knowledge of whom you'd chop I was only able to make general comments but I was mostly concerned at mention of chopping several people. Especially at the likelyhood that some of them are simply members who could be guided rather than discarded.

IMO - YOU CANT ARGUE IN ONE POST THAT ADMIN/MODS NEED TO DO WHAT WE FELL IS APPROPRIATE, AND THEN SAY YOU HAVE CONCERN OVER THOSE CHOICES.

3) I'm aware that some of the mods/elite-mods are in favour of promoting a Weights member to mod status and that I have been proposed as a candidate. My closing comments were directed mainly to Rick, Digger and George on whom it rests to effect such changes. I thank the mods who have spent the time to moderate this forum in the interim, you especially.

LIKE I HAVE STARTED BEFORE AS NAUSEUM - IT IS OUT OF OUR(MODS) HANDS....YOU GUYS NEED TO BE MORE PRO-ACTIVE AND EMAIL/PM BRR, DIGGER, GEORGE ABOUT THE SITUATION

4) What would I/we do specifically? It's hard to answer not yet having sat in the mod seat. There is organization to do with regards to the training vault but those things can happen over time just with a bit of tweaking by members passing requests to current mods. In general, though, having mods on-tap to diffuse sensitive situations and available to take the responsibility to guide newbies would be a good thing as would having someone known as a regular contributor to act as a senator for the forum. These are amongst the things I see as jobs for a dedicated mod. You can chuckle now.


GREAT IDEAS.


I WAS SPECIFICALLY ASKING ABOUT THE AI THREAD IN GENERAL. WHEN WOULD YOU HAVE LOCKED IT??

AI'S BACKGROUND, IMO, IS IRRELEVANT...IF A WORD, ETC IS USED IN AN OFFENSIVE FASHION, AND THE RECEPIENT FINDS IT THUS, IT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH

On the racial-slur issue and AI: at the end, I can see that it had gone too far and he was inevitably for the chop. The 'n-word' probably holds a lot more emotive force for those raised in the colonies than we this side of the Atlantic. As I mentioned in PM, words like 'guido' and 'wop' happily slip under the radar. BTW did anyone know that AI is of African descent?

As mentoned, being of a certain descent, imo, does not give one the right to use that as a basis for going where he did.

I htink we are in agreement on that actually

 

[silver_shadow]

BTW did anyone know that AI is of African descent?

wow, really? well that makes the irony even more complete... considering as you said he called a polack a nigger...

 

[Tweakle]

the training forum is actually pretty good considering it's a part of elite fitness.. it's no IM and never will be, but there's a wealth of information here buried in the trash.

Moderation isn't needed, other than preventing karma faggery taking place & poll deletion on a regular basis.

people wishing for the good old days can always go to Iron Trybe.

 

[blut wump]

wow, really? well that makes the irony even more complete... considering as you said he called a polack a nigger...

Easy, tiger

In truth, I made that up for the sake of irony. I don't know AI's lineage.

 

[H_T_]

lmao.

 

[silver_shadow]

Easy, tiger

In truth, I made that up for the sake of irony. I don't know AI's lineage.

lol... well i do know he's partly german (maybe full german)

 

[redguru]

wow, really? well that makes the irony even more complete... considering as you said he called a polack a nigger...

BTW, for discussion's sake polack is a Polish word for someone from Poland. I don't think the N word is Swahili for someone from Africa.

 

[silver_shadow]

BTW, for discussion's sake polack is a Polish word for someone from Poland. I don't think the N word is Swahili for someone from Africa.

i'm not defending racism BTW... why would i... i'd be at the receiving end considering i'm indian myself

 

[Protobuilder]

First, this board has many good, regular, supportive, knowledgeable members. It shouldn’t be considered a dumping ground by any stretch.

Second, we need someone w/ mod powers. What we do NOT need is one of the current mods taking over with “good intentions” but no understanding/interest of this forum and its members. What we DO need is someone like blut wump or cynical simian being given some control. Having someone like The Shadow locking threads, booting members, or whatever would be a disaster. We’re not asking to be taken over; we’re asking to be given some say in governance. There will be some whining whenever changes are made but if the person making the changes has credibility—as BW & CS do—the whining would be minimal and possibly non-existent. No offense The Shadow, but my guess is, there was a bunch of BB’rs here previously dishing out the typical BB’ing myths, etc., and they got ran off/irritated when MC2 started posting good, honest, time-tested strength-training advice. That’s a guess. I could be 100% wrong. But that would explain why the “old timers” are now resentful/angry at this forum. It comes through in your regular comments, alluded to above, that this forum sucks. If they honestly just lost interest, they’d have a mild disinterest in this board, but instead, it’s clear that there’s some resentment floating around . . .

Thirdly, the infamous “AI Incident of June 06” was ridiculous. I couldn’t agree more that (1) AI overstepped his bounds, but (2) losing him is ridiculous. He was a funny, knowledgeable, caustic, supportive guy. Every forum needs someone like that. You take the good with the bad—he’d get out of hand sometimes and annoy/irritate people but other times, he was funny and helpful. No big deal. He should still be here, no question. Blut wump was absolutely correct—AI listens to reason. His schtick was often tongue in cheek. People would understand that who’ve been around a bit. And for him to get tossed b/c he got into a spat w/ people who were here SOLELY for the drama is insane. It’s like someone bringing a guest to a family reunion, and that guest gets in a fight w/ your family members, and you toss the family out and keep the guest, who you’ll never see again. Insane.

Fourth, there is no single “right” training philosophy here. Nobody says “thou shalt do 5x5.” But many of the regulars here like that program or some variation of strength training (as opposed to pumping stuff) and think its good, especially for new lifters. So, until those of us who like the plan leave, that’ll continue to be a large chunk of the advice handed out. If you don’t like it, start giving noobs advice on BB’ing type splits. They can decide for themselves. They can decide whether exactly 70s. of time under tension has more long-term benefit than adding weight to the bar in regular, logical increments. They can decide whether 20lb. side laterals are better for shoulder growth than heavy, progressive behind-the-neck push presses. They can decide whether heavy thick-bar deadlifts are better for a big, strong back than hyperextensions done while holding your gym bag for weight. Until we leave, that’ll be the advice handed out. But if someone insists on doing something else, they’ll get as much help as we can give ‘em.

 

[Madcow2]

Random thoughts on Mod selection, AI, and 5x5:

Just as an FYI, a year or so ago mods were specifically selected from this forum and general training with direct forum input. For one reason or another they don't spend a lot of time here. So the effort has been made in the past, the intent is there, and I'm guessing from what Velvet posted in #21 it will happen again relatively soon. That said this forum has a lot of good info geared to the majority of people found on BBing boards (it is not EliteFTS, nor is it GoHeavy's OL forum, nor is Charlie Francis', nor does it focus around contest prep for competitive BBing so it covers the remaining 99.5%) and it has a good group of people that enjoy helping others and explaining fairly detailed info from the ground up. I don't post much anymore but I do check it out from time to time and I've been relatively pleased with what I've seen. I think anyone who spends some time here, regardless of their level of knowledge would agree.

Anthrax Invasion's banning shouldn't surprise anyone and I guarantee he's not shocked, it's happened multiple times. I happened to like him. He's intelligent, eager to lean, doesn't mind teaching/explaining or helping others, has a genuine passion for lifting and generally is a great guy. That said, I'm not the only one that's observed that he sometimes goes way out there and I actually wonder whether this same guy has fallen off the wagon or something just boozing hardcore in his house and using a given thread as an outlet (I don't know but I have honestly wondered on several occasions). Really, I have no idea. He's a good and valuable member but at times he absolutely steps over the line and if this place is to function and make money (i.e. Spellwin isn't providing free community service and support) it has to be reasonably welcoming and inviting. So on the one hand AI is a good guy and once you know him you his occasional odd rants and behaviors with a grain of salt, but on the other hand there is no reason to tolerate that kind of behavior in the first place. Hopefully he gets the message and eventually whatever it is that makes him do that abates a bit - age and experience tends to do wonders. You won't change anyone with direct outside opposition, they will just put on blinders and dig in. But subtle pressure from an angle can completely redirect someone and make them change from within.

As far as 5x5 - it teaches essentials of training theory and cuts through typical BBing dogma (which is most often filled thick with unsubstantiated and often flat out wrong voodoo and rhetoric but even so can still work to varying degrees). Anyone who has spent time here knows the reason behind using the 5x5 because I've been very clear about it. The number of times my own training has looked exactly like that program on my site is maybe for a single 8 week period and even then there was some degree of deviation. It teaches management of the principle factors of volume, intensity, and frequency as well as the underpinnings of fitness fatigue or dual factor theory. It's just an effective workout and easy template to see the moving parts and therefore teach from. The overwhelming bulk of everything I've linked or written is about training theory in general and not the 5x5, heck even a lot of unrelated programs. The takeaway of the 5x5 (and Glenn has also spent time explaining this and Bill Starr made this abundantly clear) is not any golden program (there is none) but systematic training, keeping it as simple as possible at all points (as experience increase so will complexity to a degree), training lifts and not working muscles, focusing on progression and planning for it. All that and dispelling the myths about a muscle requiring 1x per week frequency to recover irregardless of what was done in the gym, that compound lifts without copious isolation work shotgunned at every bodypart every day and at every stage and phase in training one's body will grow into an oddball lump of ugly muscle. I don't pan bodypart splits and heavy isolation work when required but the fact of the matter is that most people don't have a clue why and when this should be used and for the majority of them, it shouldn't factor into their training more than a few times a year at best (and it should be thrown in the trash and set fire for your generic EF novice looking to add 20lbs of muscle over the next few months to his 6' 180lbs frame). 5x5 is about providing a general template that will teach good fundamentals, basic training theory, and HOW to progress (vs. HOPE to progress for some general effort which is what most "programs", term used loosely, and splits seem to rely on doing some scattered work and hoping to be better for the work). There isn't any real single "5x5" workout that Starr, Glenn, or Mark has used. It's about training, methodology, and planning. To get people started I provided 2 templates for two different levels of experience that I feel are most common to people on this type of site (and beginners I tell to buy Starting Strength because they need to learn the damn lifts and basic fundamentals and just add weight to the bar).

5x5 the way I have presented it and the way most people on this board understand it is about "Teaching a Man to Fish". And this is the whole reason I chose Glenn's periodized version to bring to EF, I could certainly make something different, even equally as good, and call it the Madcow Triple Duper Super maybe even try to sell it to people or get a column somewhere and introduce a new random flavor of every month - but I can't make anything generally better and make it as clear and easy to get one's head around. Teaching a man to fish is about how to select tackle and appropriate line, which fish are edible, where certain fish are likely to be found and the particulars of catching each, best time of day and water or climate conditions, etc...It is absolutely NOT throwing a person a fish or telling him to just fish in one spot and catch a single kind of fish to the exclusion of all others because someone guarantees them it is the "best" fish (sounds like Mike Mentzer).

5x5 is not a golden program, it has never been presented as such. It should not be presented as such, it's not even really a single program or set of programs. There simply is no golden program and training must change and adapt with the trainee and facilitate progression toward his goals (and maybe a lot of isolation is required to refine an existing physique at certain points or for contest prep). However what is golden about 5x5, is that it is VERY easy to teach from and for people to see and intuitively grasp the internal mechanics and applied theory. That makes it a good starting point in their training and learning for a number of people. That is the takeaway, that's all it's ever been, all it ever will be.

 

[Madcow2]

No offense The Shadow, but my guess is, there was a bunch of BB’rs here previously dishing out the typical BB’ing myths, etc., and they got ran off/irritated when MC2 started posting good, honest, time-tested strength-training advice. That’s a guess. I could be 100% wrong. But that would explain why the “old timers” are now resentful/angry at this forum. It comes through in your regular comments, alluded to above, that this forum sucks. If they honestly just lost interest, they’d have a mild disinterest in this board, but instead, it’s clear that there’s some resentment floating around . . .

When I was first a member around 2000-2001 I recall this board sucking pretty bad and never spent any time here. I could be wrong about that. I think sometime after that it got quite good, I remember Arioch and Spatts and some others posting here - I think that's the crew/timeline that The Shadow is refering to and as an FYI, that was when Arioch put up the Squat, Dead, Bench, and Snatch documents that are in my thread and linked on my site. Suffice to say, knowledgable people. Sometime after that I'm guessing there was a departure for another board I don't know why and I think that is when the random HIT/Kill That Shit/Generic BBing stuff started floating around again. That's my understanding anyway maybe he could clarify as I didn't spend much time and basically just remembered the very early 2000/2001 days (like when the mod Mustang18 was really 18 and running his first cycle) where I'd drop in from time to time and leave very quickly (and yes, C&C was the same back when I'd open the forum and then hit the back button after a quick scan, this is even without the Karma system which I actually thought would never see any use when it was first implemented).

 

[cityhick]

No its not a dumping ground.

There are a few good bros and sis that have been here for awhile that ALWAYS offer good advice.

BUT

There seems to be plenty of 13-16 year old boys that come and go and talk a little shit then leave. But its the internet, kids are all over the place, just ignore it.

The Good come with the Bad.

 

[Protobuilder]

Anyone else think it’s just extremely cool to see the name “madcow2” gracing this board once again?

“Good to see you again,” is an understatement. Not that we need testimonials, but learning “how to fish” via the 5x5 has moved me forward in a very big way.

 

[blut wump]

Anyone else think it’s just extremely cool to see the name “madcow2” gracing this board once again?

“Good to see you again,” is an understatement. Not that we need testimonials, but learning “how to fish” via the 5x5 has moved me forward in a very big way.

You, me and many others on both points, I suspect.

Honestly, though, I think The Shadow is one of the good guys around here.

Hi, madcow.

 

[djeclipse]

Anyone else think it’s just extremely cool to see the name “madcow2” gracing this board once again?

“Good to see you again,” is an understatement. Not that we need testimonials, but learning “how to fish” via the 5x5 has moved me forward in a very big way.

+1

 

[Madcow2]

Thanks for the good thoughts. My core interest is that things come out good and what has been a valuable resource for people and a good place to interact remains and improves.

Thinking of the Shadow's viewpoint, how many doofus assholes advertise or promote crap on this site. I'm sure he's threatened to ban or laid it down on several hundreds and likely some of the times he was polite they mouthed off back to him. So of course this one time it's Glenn someone who everyone here respects and who garners and has earned respect on a much larger field and from much more qualified individuals. The best thing to do is to let him know about it (I also sent a PM by the way) so he can contact Glenn and explain the situation to him and how the comments weren't personally directed in any way, just procedure . However, people jumped on him publically about it (and how does that make someone feel? almost always defensive and angry) due to some other underlying frustrations and it gives the guy a bad taste for the current group of people in this forum. Bottom line, if he knew who Glenn was he'd have phrased it differently (reputation doesn't give you the right to advertise still) and since most others haven't been mods and had to suppress 100+ posts a month from joe asshole to roid dealers to cheap Xanax or discount phone sex it's probably tough to relate to his position.

That said, everyone wants the best for the forum and I think it's in everyone's interest to just maturely lay it out and explain their thoughts, positions, and suggestions - this is without attack and just dropping whatever bad feelings or grudges might exist (whether incorrectly preceived, a result of misunderstanding or totally deserved). You can't move forward carrying baggage from the past. Now lets all hug, hold hands and sing.

FYI - I watched the film Munich the other evening and it made a profound impact on my views regarding violence, grudges and continuing vengence - highly recommended.

 

[The Shadow]

Having someone like The Shadow locking threads, booting members, or whatever would be a disaster.

Someone like "ME" has locked 90% of all the poll threads that you guys were bitching about.

Did anyone notice??

NO

Someone like "ME" was not online during, nor asked for ANYONE from this forum to be banned...NO ONE..and its way the hell off the mark to state that I have., and I certainly didnt have ANYTHING to do with the AI thread, in fact, I HAD TO ASK on the mod forum if he was banned.


The lock on the Glenn thread was within guidelines, although my wording could have been better. I sent him a pm and its history..it was between he and I and no one else.

Did anyone know that I sent him a pm??


NO



so - my 2 cc's is this - don't mouth off about "someone" like me unless you have the sand to back it up with facts.

For the record - yeah - you are a bit incorrect about your opinions regarding this forum in the past. I was one of the most hands-on mods back then, and I am pretty sure that I have posted as much content as any of the mods ever have.

So - coming from someone who has been here about 9 months, who rips on ME without having ANYTHING to back it up borders on the obscenely laughable.


Personally - I really could not care less of what anyone thinks of me....but don't piss and moan about me banning, or even me ASKING for members to be banned because it just isnt remotely true.



And regarding my comments on this forum:

I HAVE said many times, that this forum has been/is continuing to run on autopilot and life support, and yet you take issue with that. It seems to me that I am the only only with the balls to call it as it appears to a lot, if not most. I havent said anything that you folks havent thought/posted about. It goes back to this "One of the tribe" mentality, that only the cliques in here are allowed to have a divergent though as opposed to the rest of the status quo.

Does the forum suck??


NO.....



It is at an all-time low in terms of content and attitude??


Probably.



How many of you have taken a PRO-active stance in the new mods situation??

How many have taken the time to send a pm/email to the ones who make the decision as opposed to simply venting at those who have no control over the matter??


...not many I bet.



Oh yeah - one other fucking thing:

Madcow is wise.



If there is ANYTHING ANYONE would like to discuss - heres the opportunity.......

 

[Protobuilder]

Don't get your panties in a bunch. Reread what I wrote. I didn't mean to imply that you have locked threads or booted people here. I said it would be unhelpful to have someone take over the forum and do the aforementioned. The reason I mentioned your name is b/c earlier in this thread (or was it another?), I believe you mentioned that you could take over and start locking threads/lopping off heads and we'd complain. That led me to believe that (1) you were being considered to take an active role here, and (2) that would be your approach.

Yes, we've noticed the polls have diminished. Consider this your reward. If you want a parade in your honor, we may be able to arrange it. LoL I didn't know who was doing it but it's been noticed b/c nobody is complaining about polls anymore. How would we know it's you though? They just stop showing up, which is a GREAT thing. I don't think anybody knew who was responsible though.

FWIW, I've talked w/ Bunny about the mod situation. I've offered suggestions, etc. Until recently, I didn't know there was a distinction between mods and admins so never thought to PM an admin. And I can't go into the mod forum to post my suggestions. I hoped bunny was doing that and have no reason to believe she wasn't. And I'm in this thread, again, arguing for what "kind" of mod we'd like to have and what "type" of approach would be helpful.

I honestly don't know what makes you think this forum's content is at an "all-time low." Honestly. I don't understand that. Ask Tweakle. Ask BiggT. Ask Guiness5.0. Ask blut wump. Ask Glenn Pendlay. There are serious guys here, and good, helpful info. is handed out daily. I don't get your disdain for this forum. Frankly, it doesn't matter. It's just curious to me. It's not the impression I have at all, and I consider myself an on-line training forum "expert." LoL

coming from someone who has been here about 9 months, who rips on ME without having ANYTHING to back it up borders on the obscenely idiotic.

Zing!

I don't know you from a hole in the ground. First memorable post from you that I saw was your interaction w/ Glenn. Next post from you was you trashing this forum, calling us whiners, telling us that we're rockbottom here, on life support, etc etc. What conclusion should I have drawn? I didn't know your reputation. I apologize though if I seem to be coming across as hard on you. You clearly are supported by people here who do carry a lot of water. So, I will show more respect in the future. Only thing I really care about here is that we get a little bit of support re: mod help from an established member to really help this place shine. Since I've been here, I've seen good, bad, and ugly, but mostly it's been good. It's clear the people here care or they would just leave rather than complain, create well-thought out stickies, and ask for mod help to make this place even better.

 

[BiggT]

Good to see ya, Madcow.

Shadow, I enjoy the board, the only suggestions I have is locking polls (which you pointed out has been done) and thank-you if you did it, if not thanks to whomever did it....and again, this goes back to needing a regular training board mod, you need someone to lock threads when they LOOK like they will get out of control, that thread where AI was banned had all the red flags of a f-ing mess on post #2.

On any board members come and they go....I find it hard to believe that the board is at an all-time low right now when there was once a time that the "Kill That Shit" thread was actually stickied.....like all boards, many people left for one reason or another, a lot of times what happens is a board like Elite moves fast and gets a lot of traffic (good things), but the nature of the 'commercial board' is it will attract a lot of douche bags (elite's selling points are steroids, sex, supplements, get big quick materials, semi-pornographic pics) this stuff doesn't necessarily attract people interested in serious training discussion, so some members start their own board for the more serious lifters.....I find it hard to believe there was a mass exodus of quality members because they didn't like '5x5 training'....it probably had more to do with the fact that they got sick of threads like "POLL: Who is t3h more jakked: Brad Pitt or LL Cool J?".

Honestly, it's all in good fun, I like the way the board moves fast and has lots of traffic and if somebody posts something retarded, they get a flame or two and no harm done. Mostly, the board has lots of quality info. and people willing and able to help others.

Definitely for good morale for the regulars, making someone like Blut Wump or Cinical Simian a moderator would be a smart choice in my opinion......they are respected training board posters with good moderator qualities (good training knowledge, level-headed, intelligent, don't flame, can spell, good use of grammar etc etc).

But, overall, I think post regulars are happy with the quality of the board, human nature is for those to prefer a place where they are closest to everyone, and naturally as people come and go, opinions on board quality will change.

Anyway, I'd like to say thanks to you Shadow for taking a proactive stance and clearly making efforts to help and do what is within your power.....and seriously post more in here for whatever reason, get to know all the regulars, everyone would like to hear your input, you'll see the training board isn't all that bad.

Oh yeah, this may be wishful thinking, but if there is any way to disable to C and C gayness (bombing, gay karma wars, etc etc) from the training board, hat would be great.

 

[Madcow2]

It might interest some of you but if you go to the big 5x5 thread the very 2nd post, right under what is now the table of contents but was originally BionicBC's posting an old DF 5x5 description of mine, it was from...... 'The Shadow' regarding his Old School posts.

 

[The Shadow]

Don't get your panties in a bunch. Reread what I wrote. I didn't mean to imply that you have locked threads or booted people here. I said it would be unhelpful to have someone take over the forum and do the aforementioned. The reason I mentioned your name is b/c earlier in this thread (or was it another?), I believe you mentioned that you could take over and start locking threads/lopping off heads and we'd complain. That led me to believe that (1) you were being considered to take an active role here, and (2) that would be your approach.

AGAIN - IN CAPS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ.

BEING CONSIDERED TO TAKE A ROLE??

UM....I AM A MODERATOR ON THIS AND EVERY OTHER FORUM ON EF. I POP ON READ A LOT AND ANSWER A HELL OF A LOT OF PMS AND EMAILS, AND HAVE LEFT THE RUNNING OF THE PRISON TO THE INMATES.

MAYBE THAT WASN'T THE GREATEST OF DECISIONS AS YOU GUYS ARE NOW ASKING FOR SOME ORDER ETC.


AS FAR AS REREADING.....ITS CRYSTAL CLEAR WHAT YOU MEANT....FOR PETE'S SAKE YOU SPECIFICALLY LISTED MY NAME AND THOSE ACTIONS..


CMON DUDE - HAVE THE BALLS TO STAND BY YOUR COMMENTS



Yes, we've noticed the polls have diminished. Consider this your reward. If you want a parade in your honor, we may be able to arrange it. LoL I didn't know who was doing it but it's been noticed b/c nobody is complaining about polls anymore. How would we know it's you though? They just stop showing up, which is a GREAT thing. I don't think anybody knew who was responsible though.


SEE??


THAT IS EXACTLY MY POINT. THERE IS A HELL OF A LOT THAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES BY ALL THE MODS AND ADMIN THAT YOU GUYS DONT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT. IT'S JUST IRONIC THAT I WAS THE ONE WHO GOT MOST OF 'EM - YET "SOMEONE LIKE ME" AS A MOD WOULD BE A "DISASTER".

LOL


NICE JOB

FWIW, I've talked w/ Bunny about the mod situation. I've offered suggestions, etc. Until recently, I didn't know there was a distinction between mods and admins so never thought to PM an admin. And I can't go into the mod forum to post my suggestions. I hoped bunny was doing that and have no reason to believe she wasn't. And I'm in this thread, again, arguing for what "kind" of mod we'd like to have and what "type" of approach would be helpful.

YOU NOW KNOW THE ROUTE YOU CAN TAKE, AND AS I HAVE SAID FOR WEEKS, THE NAMES HAVE BEEN GIVEN - ITS UP TO ADMIN. SEND A PM, OR BETTER YET...START A THREAD ABOUT IT AND I WILL STICKY IT FOR YOU. THERE IS A NEW THREAD ON THE MOD BOARD ABOUT THE SITUATION.


I honestly don't know what makes you think this forum's content is at an "all-time low." Honestly. I don't understand that. Ask Tweakle. Ask BiggT. Ask Guiness5.0. Ask blut wump. Ask Glenn Pendlay. There are serious guys here, and good, helpful info. is handed out daily. I don't get your disdain for this forum. Frankly, it doesn't matter. It's just curious to me. It's not the impression I have at all, and I consider myself an on-line training forum "expert." LoL


THERE'S NO DISDAIN AT ALL ON MY PART.

IS THERE GOOD ADVICE - YES, THERE IS. HOW MANY NEWBIES AND OTHER SEASONED LIFTERS WILL SIFT THROUGH THE BULLSHIT TO GET TO THE GOOD STUFF THAT IS THERE. THAT IS WHAT I MEANT BY CONTENT - THERE'S A LOT TO WADE THROUGH. THE COMMENT HAS BEEN MADE ALREADY THAT SOME OF US OLD HANDS LITERALLY HAVE TO SIFT THROUGH A LOT OF "STUFF" TO GET TO THE GOOD STUFF.



Zing!

I don't know you from a hole in the ground. First memorable post from you that I saw was your interaction w/ Glenn. Next post from you was you trashing this forum, calling us whiners, telling us that we're rockbottom here, on life support, etc etc. What conclusion should I have drawn? I didn't know your reputation. I apologize though if I seem to be coming across as hard on you. You clearly are supported by people here who do carry a lot of water. So, I will show more respect in the future. Only thing I really care about here is that we get a little bit of support re: mod help from an established member to really help this place shine. Since I've been here, I've seen good, bad, and ugly, but mostly it's been good. It's clear the people here care or they would just leave rather than complain, create well-thought out stickies, and ask for mod help to make this place even better.

LOL


Again - that was my point. You didn't know anything about me a few posts ago when you alluded to me and the bannings etc. It was simply out of line.

What conclusion should you have drawn??


I can't say.



There is a real issue imo between the opinions of the "cliques" versus those who have been away for a while and are a bit more objective.

I think it's completely natural to compare something in its present form to its all-time best form.


..and that is the comparison that I am making.


I'll wager that if someone started a poll and simply asked is this forum currently up to par with its all time best of say 3ish yeas ago..that it would be 3:1 no.


That is just my opinion.




btw - you stated that you didnt know me - but will be show more respect in the future.

I think that's a general issue as well...the most knowledgable person could post on here, and b/c he/she isnt in the tribe - they are treated differently - and that is just wrong.

 

[The Shadow]

It might interest some of you but if you go to the big 5x5 thread the very 2nd post, right under what is now the table of contents but was originally BionicBC's posting an old DF 5x5 description of mine, it was from...... 'The Shadow' regarding his Old School posts.

you didnt have to mention that.....


but thank you

 

[djeclipse]

As far as the polls go I have personally brought a few to the attention of the mods and admin (can't remember exactly who) and they have been right on top of it. And I have always replied with a thank you after the poll was locked. So their efforts are not going un noticed at all. The fact that we don't see many anymore speaks for itself.

All we're asking is for either BW or silver_shadow (or both) to be made mods of this forum. We're not asking for some great change as I believe most people (that actually post there on a daily basis) believe this forum is a great source of information. We're simply asking for BW and/or silver_shadow to be granted the ability to clean up the forum as it need be and squash the odd flame thread that comes up tie to time. That's about it. Nothing drastic.

The Shadow, you're angered that Proobuilder has no clue who you are aside form a few recent post from you in the past few weeks.

Believe that is the problem, there is no mod here that has the best interests of this forum and it's members in mind and the mods that are in place are hardly here to begin with. You yourself say you don't have time after answering pm's e-mails etc. It is sometimes a thankless job.

Again, all we want is for BW or silver_shadow as they area here all the time and will be good for the better or the board.

I truly believe as do others, that if one of them were mods during the AI thread it wouldn't have have had the same result as it did. All that was needed was a simple warning in the thread, a PM to AI and then if still needed a lock well before it turned so sour. The problem was there is no weight training forum mod that is (active here daily) to step in and take are of the situation before it became a problem.

I think that's a general issue as well...the most knowledgable person could post on here, and b/c he/she isnt in the tribe - they are treated differently - and that is just wrong.

Kind of like when Glen Penlay (sp?) posted here and you had no clue who he was...?

I don't see this clique as you say, in fact it can't be farther form the truth. All the time there are new people signing up asking about training in a legit way (not the "it's beach time yo 1 need to add 20lbS of muscle in a week), and they are getting help from knowledgable people and being welcomed to the board.

It's the people that just post typical bull shit, and don't care to listen to any advice as they're going to do what they want to do anyway, that get flamed and rightfully so.

Do you rally think we need to start a thread asking for BW or silver_shadow to be mods here?

 

[Protobuilder]

+1

I AM A MODERATOR ON THIS AND EVERY OTHER FORUM ON EF. I POP ON READ A LOT

But apparently had no clue who Glenn Pendlay was, despite him being credited repeatedly in Madcow’s posts and posting in-depth answers/critiques in multiple threads over the past 6 months or so. There’s nothing wrong w/ not taking an interest in this particular forum. No big deal. But it makes me question the accuracy of your view from afar that this forum is a mere shadow of its former self, when gurus like you graced the board with your knowledge. We’re not looking for a dictator here. We’d just like to be able to clean up some posts from time-to-time and have some control over stickies, editing, etc. We aren’t seeking a heavy hand from outside.

THERE IS A HELL OF A LOT THAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES BY ALL THE MODS AND ADMIN THAT YOU GUYS DONT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT. IT'S JUST IRONIC THAT I WAS THE ONE WHO GOT MOST OF 'EM - YET "SOMEONE LIKE ME" AS A MOD WOULD BE A "DISASTER".

By “someone like The Shadow,” I meant someone who is not really interested in this forum and does not know the current members. Again, no big deal if you’re not interested but it wouldn’t help matters to have a relative “unknown factor” show up and start modding w/ a heavy hand. Again, it goes to the bigger point that we need a mod w/ an interest in this board. Nothing personal.

There is a real issue imo between the opinions of the "cliques" versus those who have been away for a while and are a bit more objective.

I think it's completely natural to compare something in its present form to its all-time best form.

Just come out and say it: things were REALLY cool when you and your pals were here. We’re shadows of the former glory of this board when you and your friends ruled the roost. Your opinion is clear – things were better when you and your friends were here. That was years ago apparently. In the interim things may have gone to pot, but they seem to have taken a turn for the better now. I honestly don’t know what the past glory of this board has to do w/ anything today. You’re basically saying that despite madcow’s work here over the past year or so, this board is at an all-time low. I don’t see that. Maybe in 2004 or something this board sucked. It seems pretty good now. Maybe not as cool as when you guys discussed time-under-tension in every post, but it seems pretty good now w/ a nice blend of strength/athletic training advice and some BB’ing stuff thrown in.

What are you talking about re: cliques? Honestly, this impression you have is inaccurate. Who exactly is in the clique? As you mentioned, I am a noob here and yet feel completely comfortable, have started a journal, etc. I listened and learned and am trying to help people w/ what little knowledge I’ve got. If the clique is so restrictive, why are new people showing up and starting journals, and receiving constructive comments right off the bat? Again, you’re not active here, which is fine, but I don’t think you have the lay of the land.

In the end, if it’s so bad right now, and you really care, why don’t you start reading/posting here every day like we do? You’ll learn that super_rice just competed in OLY lifting. xblitz44x, who is a relative noob here, is now cutting. Tweakle has a chronically sore ass. Jim Ouini is the board envy b/c of his fancy-pants new eleiko set. Shades McCool, another noob, is now trying the 5x5 along w/ his younger brother, both of whom recently joined. Dj_eclipse is really NOT a teenager. Etc. etc. etc.

No clique is preventing that.

 

[djeclipse]

Dj_eclipse is really NOT a teenager. Etc. etc. etc.

shhhh, I stopped having birthdays at 24, I am close enough to a teenager in my mind... lol

And as far as cliques go C&C has to be the largest clique forum on EF. Just the fact that as soon as one person form there notices a post here, all of them suddenly come here kissing each others ass giving k-bombs to anyone that disagrees with them, regardless if said person has a good point or not... that is a clique if you ask me.

 

[H_T_]

mods = plats.

 

[Tweakle]

seriously, if you want a snapshot of how the board was back in '03 then go to irontrybe which is where about 75% of the regs from that time period are active posters.

there's little to no discussion about bbing 'theory' over there, it's actually a lot more PL and strongman oriented than EF is with most of the discussions being on log pressing, keg medleys and belly benching. Way beyond the practical training approach and more specialised.

If anyone really wants to know how arnie brought up his calves, or how to get the most from a 6 day split they just need to drop by the roid forum - it's 2 blocks up the page, take a left at the lights. The good stuff lives there... and if you ask around I'm sure there's a tbol guru or 2 willing to tell you exactly how to sculpt yourself into 160lbs of internet muscle.

the regs make a forum and we have a good core group of people who post here. Maybe not the specialized knowledge base of some other forums but this is far from some flaming bb.com kiddy fest.

 

[H_T_]

I still maintain that losing AI is a loss to the forum. He was brusque to the point of rudeness from time to time but his contributions were always sound. To lose him due to a Polish guy getting upset after having provoked AI to use a slur from a different race is perverse especially coming as it did from a general provocation from a bunch of disenfranchised members with Karma to burn due to the recent system changes. All tragic.

Yes, that thread should have been locked. Yes a mod who knew the people here would have handled it differently. Yes, AI was on borrowed time once we knew he has had issues with admin before. AI is gone. Some say good riddance and others await his new alter.

We all agree that the forum requires changes. You and admin already have the powers to make whatever changes you will. Someone is going to bleat probably whatever you do if it's done without the cooperation of at least one of the current 'in crowd' on here. There's also a general feeling that you, and the other mods who have visited recently, CasualBB included, unfortunately, don't know the people here and aren't likely to make changes for the best of the forum.

Please, Big4life, stop traipsing out the line of 'everyone can learn from everyone else'. In essence it's a truism. In practice, we have complete newbies being offered help from Olympic coaches. I've yet to see an instance on here where someone has arrived, demonstrated anything closely resembling a work ethic and been given other than help, links and pointers in good directions.

Personally, I prefer a hands-on softly-softly approach while there is hope it can work. Banning several members who still have good to offer the forum I see as a lesser solution to empowering a couple of members who are currently intimate with the community here. If they can't hold things together then you can always bring in the axe and start lopping heads.

Why is there such resistance, now spanning several months since Rick first raised the issue of EF needing fresh mods, to raising one or two Weights forum regulars to mod status? This is perplexing to us.

lol, is all i have to say.

 

[The Shadow]

The Shadow, you're angered that Proobuilder has no clue who you are aside form a few recent post from you in the past few weeks.


Kind of like when Glen Penlay (sp?) posted here and you had no clue who he was...?

I don't see this clique as you say, in fact it can't be farther form the truth. All the time there are new people signing up asking about training in a legit way (not the "it's beach time yo 1 need to add 20lbS of muscle in a week), and they are getting help from knowledgable people and being welcomed to the board.

It's the people that just post typical bull shit, and don't care to listen to any advice as they're going to do what they want to do anyway, that get flamed and rightfully so.

Do you rally think we need to start a thread asking for BW or silver_shadow to be mods here?

LMAO at the Glen remark.


It DOESNT MATTER who it was - it was against EF policy.

PERIOD.


I have said time and time again, I could have phrased my comments better but it doesnt change their truth.



This is getting nowhere......


Glen is here - thats fantastic.


There have been several other elite/pro athletes that ARENT on here anymore


What is the point.


You guys CONTINUE to bash folks for ther opinions.....just like mine about th epresent day board.


You guys continue to prove me right in that the only opinion that is *right* these days is the one of thr masses.

You have to be blind to not see my point.

 

[velvett]

mods = plats.

What do you mean?
That mods are only choosen from the Plat population?


Anywhooo..

This thread is turning into a C&C thread and that's a more of a sad state of affairs than anything else.

 

[Protobuilder]

Nice dodge.



I'm back to training talk . . . .

 

[H_T_]

What do you mean?
That mods are only choosen from the Plat population?


Anywhooo..

This thread is turning into a C&C thread and that's a mod sad state of affairs than anything else.

that's what i was told........ then maybe you should do something about it.

 

[The Shadow]

btw - Do I think you need to start a thread??


If its that huge of an inconvenience for you guys to be proactive in getting the needs of this forum met - then that says a lot, I think.

 

[H_T_]

Lol. this is the longest thread that will be created this week in the lifting forum. Lol.

 

[The Shadow]

Lol. this is the longest thread that will be created this week in the lifting forum. Lol.

Agreed...and I actually said no to the question and you see the love I'm getting.

 

[H_T_]

Agreed...and I actually said no to the question and you see the love I'm getting.

i said that in an earlier thread how i would see a post slip right off the new posts page without a single view.

 

[The Shadow]

i said that in an earlier thread how i would see a post slip right off the new posts page without a single view.

Indeed....most of the time they were newbies as well.....which goes back to my clique thoughts

 

[blut wump]

On the topic of starting a thread for Digger, BRR and George to come look at, it's really not plausible to consider that any of those three is unaware of our current situation.

I think we've been fairly pro-active to have arrived where we are. If you sincerely believe that hassling those guys will help then that's what must be done.

 

[H_T_]

Indeed....most of the time they were newbies as well.....which goes back to my clique thoughts

yeah. like i said in the other post, it's like a new kid coming to a gym for the first time. no one has a fucking second for him. and is typically treated like shit, once they get his CC #.

 

[The Shadow]

On the topic of starting a thread for Digger, BRR and George to come look at, it's really not plausible to consider that any of those three is unaware of our current situation.

I think we've been fairly pro-active to have arrived where we are. If you sincerely believe that hassling those guys will help then that's what must be done.

I sincerely do.

Money = plat = action

 

[BiggT]

Lots of stuff goes unlooked at because sometimes it is the 23rd question of the day titled "How many sets is best for biceps?" and a lot of times you run out of gas and patience to field it and you hope somebody else takes a stab......I would make more of an efffort to help, even if it is fielding inane, repetitive questions or at least point them to the training sticky (again, in some cases saying read a sticky isn't snubbing a newbie, just sometimes you can't deal with "whats better, d-bells or barbell incline" for the 8th time in an hour....but again, you've got the matter of opinion, I personally can't stand C and C where somebody will post a thread like "would you have sex with a shemale if you were really drunk??" and then within 5 minutes it has 5,000 replies and twice as many views......sometimes it only takes a few posts to answer a question or direct somebody to the right place, if you're not here to flame, take threads on inane, off-topic turns, and play faggity Karma games, sometimes a topic is open and shut.

Guys saying it is clicky here are off-base in my opinion. Many other boards are much more clique oriented than this one.

 

[djeclipse]

LMAO at the Glen remark.


It DOESNT MATTER who it was - it was against EF policy.

PERIOD.


I have said time and time again, I could have phrased my comments better but it doesnt change their truth.



This is getting nowhere......


Glen is here - thats fantastic.


There have been several other elite/pro athletes that ARENT on here anymore


What is the point.


You guys CONTINUE to bash folks for ther opinions.....just like mine about th epresent day board.


You guys continue to prove me right in that the only opinion that is *right* these days is the one of thr masses.

You have to be blind to not see my point.

I guess I figured you'd be able to understand my point, I guess I shouldn't have been so subtle.

You implied that someone with great lifting knowledge could come to the board and we'd somehow treat him in a way that you won't agree with (Which couldn't be farther form the truth as anyone that comes here with any kind of training knowledge, willing to share is welcomed with open arms).

Yet in reality you did EXACTLY that with Glenn. Because you are not here and really don't know what goes on, who is who on the board you treated him (initially) in a way someone of his knowledge shouldn't be treated.

You did yourself what you are accusing us of potentially doing in the future to someone else with great lifting knowledge.

Just to get it straight I'm not saying anything negative about you enforcing EF policy at all, it had to be done that is fine. It just happens to be a perfect example to help get my point across.

If there is ANYTHING ANYONE would like to discuss - heres the opportunity.......

Yet when we begin to discuss it, explain what we would like for this forum, one of the people listed above for mods (not much if you ask me) the discussion is avoided and/ or side tracked.

This is not an attempt to flame you by any means... you seem to be so defensive though.

 

[The Shadow]

I guess I figured you'd be able to understand my point, I guess I shouldn't have been so subtle.

You implied that someone with great lifting knowledge could come to the board and we'd somehow treat him in a way that you won't agree with (Which couldn't be farther form the truth as anyone that comes here with any kind of training knowledge, willing to share is welcomed with open arms).

Yet in reality you did EXACTLY that with Glenn. Because you are not here and really don't know what goes on, who is who on the board you treated him (initially) in a way someone of his knowledge shouldn't be treated.

A PROFESSIONAL LIKE GLENN SHOULD KNOW THAT OPEN ADVERTISING ON EF REQUIRES A SPONSERSHIP AGREEMENT.

You did yourself what you are accusing us of potentially doing in the future to someone else with great lifting knowledge.

Just to get it straight I'm not saying anything negative about you enforcing EF policy at all, it had to be done that is fine. It just happens to be a perfect example to help get my point across.


WELL..NO - IT'S NOT.

LOCKING THE THREAD AFTER VERIFYING THE INFO IS SOP...AS IS EVENTUAL BANNING IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN



Yet when we begin to discuss it, explain what we would like for this forum, one of the people listed above for mods (not much if you ask me) the discussion is avoided and/ or side tracked.

I HAVENT SEEN A RECENT THREAD MADE TO ADMIN/DIGER/BRR ABOUT THE NEED FOR A MOD(S)..SO ADMIN CANT AVOID SOMETHING IF YOU DONT MAKE IT KNOWN.

FOR PETE'S SAKE.....INSTEAD OF EVEYONE BITCHING ABOUT IT...START A THREAD AND I WILL STICKY IT AS PREVIOUSLY STATED

This is not an attempt to flame you by any means... you seem to be so defensive though.

I think I have a right to be defensive...I'm the whipping boy for:

1 - no mods
2 - AI gettingbanned
3 - Threads gettig locked


...when I had nothing to do with any of it.

I'm trying my best to help you guys.....you are too blind to see it

 

[djeclipse]

btw - Do I think you need to start a thread??


If its that huge of an inconvenience for you guys to be proactive in getting the needs of this forum met - then that says a lot, I think.

Who says it's an inconvienance? Wher do you even get that form my question? If it takes a new thread then that's what will hapen. If the discussion in this thread is enough then that's good also.

 

[big4life]

This board has always been cliquish, just as most of the other boards. That is one of the reasons I started the introduction thread when I was a mod. It was a way for the members to introduce themselves and try to get people to know each other better.

 

[H_T_]

earlier this week JA was calling me the N-word. Stilleto warned him and everyone in the thread that that kind of stuff isn't gonna be tolerated. what does AI do 2 days later? starts calling me names again. oh well.

 

[Tweakle]

the irony is that the cliquey comments are coming from people who's lives revolve around getting karma for being a 'good bro'.

we're very discerning here, and hate all newbies. Especially those who don't do 5x5 (which is bad for me as I've never done it, but don't tell the other Brothers). Stick around, pay us homage and agree with everything we say and in time people might accept you into our D-Blade sponsered Fraternity.

 

[H_T_]

the irony is that the cliquey comments are coming from people who's lives revolve around getting karma for being a 'good bro'.

we're very discerning here, and hate all newbies. Especially those who don't do 5x5 (which is bad for me as I've never done it, but don't tell the other Brothers). Stick around, pay us homage and agree with everything we say and in time people might accept you into our D-Blade sponsered Fraternity.

that was pretty scathing. and funny. and i do enjoy my K.

 

[Sassy69]

We also like if u show lots of skin pix.

At least us girls do.

(Sorry for the useless & very self-serving contribution to this thread ...)

 

[blut wump]

OK, petition thread:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=490909

I'll post a link to it over in George's inner circle forum.

 

[Cynical Simian]

Holy crap, silver shadow, thanks for starting this on a day when I get back late from campus...just got done reading through everything.

Coincidentally, I was planning to start a "Suggestions for this forum" thread today after I saw (and predicted) that the AI thread would get locked.

ss, madcow2 (great to see you, thanks for all your help, etc.) and others have already said everything I would have about the state of the forum, the role of the 5x5, treatment of poll/bicep threads, and whatnot, so I won't waste anyone's time with more ramblings.

Must every one of these threads deteriorate into antagonism and unproductive arguing? I know nobody wants to be seen as backing down once a perceived challenge has been made in an open thread, but if you guys care about getting something done and not having this thead locked, please let it go. Settle whatever personal issues/misunderstandings you might have in PMs (or C&C ).

Thanks for the updates on the mod situation, velvett. BW posted his thread as I was typing this, so I guess future discussion of it will take place there.

 

[Madcow2]

Especially those who don't do 5x5 (which is bad for me as I've never done it, but don't tell the other Brothers).

Now you are on double secret clique probation I imagine. Way to go. 5x5 may not be a golden program but it is the golden key of acceptance along with the secret handshake that can only be learned by highlighting the original 5x5 thread post #11 at precicely midnight on October 22nd, then using your secret decoder ring (available in any MuscleTech product), to match it against page 22 in Starting Strength when the page is illuminated by a UV light. Since you got through I guess people need to change the handshake around, we had all thought the 'reach around testicle fondle' was unbreakable from the outside but apparently the code has been cracked

Then again maybe someone will propose you for an exemption since anyone who can pull 700 should get a pass. I'd still watch out on the next handshake though, rough hands .

 

[H_T_]

so do you get a discount or free samples?

 

[The Shadow]

the irony is that the cliquey comments are coming from people who's lives revolve around getting karma for being a 'good bro'.

You guys are really proving my points....


See how objective you can be about another forum when you arent on it all the time??

 

[iggy]

I'm not one to judge AI, or anyone for that matter. He was knowledgeable, unique, funny, and down-to-earth. Having him banned is a huge loss on the forums. But i DO believe that rules should be enforced no matter which person breaks them. AI did step out of line. I was recently watching an episode of King of the Hill. (not a big fan of the show) In the episode a famous dallas cowboy moved into Hank's neighborhood. Everyone loved the Football Star. After awhile they realized that he was destroying property all around the neighborhood, keeping everyone up at night, and digging holes on other peoples lawns. Hank called the police, but they didn't do anything. They couldn't arrest a "Star" like the Football Player. Eventually Hank obtained proof and the Football Player was forced to move.
Keep in mind that I am in NO WAY comparing AI to the football player. I am just stating that i believe rules should be equally in effect for everyone. This is my personal opinion. Take it or leave it.
I also believe that Protobuilder and Madcow2 couldn't of said it better.

First, this board has many good, regular, supportive, knowledgeable members. It shouldn’t be considered a dumping ground by any stretch.
Thirdly, the infamous “AI Incident of June 06” was ridiculous. I couldn’t agree more that (1) AI overstepped his bounds, but (2) losing him is ridiculous. He was a funny, knowledgeable, caustic, supportive guy. Every forum needs someone like that. You take the good with the bad—he’d get out of hand sometimes and annoy/irritate people but other times, he was funny and helpful. No big deal. He should still be here, no question. Blut wump was absolutely correct—AI listens to reason. His schtick was often tongue in cheek. People would understand that who’ve been around a bit. And for him to get tossed b/c he got into a spat w/ people who were here SOLELY for the drama is insane. It’s like someone bringing a guest to a family reunion, and that guest gets in a fight w/ your family members, and you toss the family out and keep the guest, who you’ll never see again. Insane.

Anthrax Invasion's banning shouldn't surprise anyone and I guarantee he's not shocked, it's happened multiple times. I happened to like him. He's intelligent, eager to lean, doesn't mind teaching/explaining or helping others, has a genuine passion for lifting and generally is a great guy. That said, I'm not the only one that's observed that he sometimes goes way out there and I actually wonder whether this same guy has fallen off the wagon or something just boozing hardcore in his house and using a given thread as an outlet (I don't know but I have honestly wondered on several occasions). Really, I have no idea. He's a good and valuable member but at times he absolutely steps over the line and if this place is to function and make money (i.e. Spellwin isn't providing free community service and support) it has to be reasonably welcoming and inviting. So on the one hand AI is a good guy and once you know him you his occasional odd rants and behaviors with a grain of salt, but on the other hand there is no reason to tolerate that kind of behavior in the first place. Hopefully he gets the message and eventually whatever it is that makes him do that abates a bit - age and experience tends to do wonders. You won't change anyone with direct outside opposition, they will just put on blinders and dig in. But subtle pressure from an angle can completely redirect someone and make them change from within.

 

[velvett]

the irony is that the cliquey comments are coming from people who's lives revolve around getting karma for being a 'good bro'.

we're very discerning here, and hate all newbies. Especially those who don't do 5x5 (which is bad for me as I've never done it, but don't tell the other Brothers). Stick around, pay us homage and agree with everything we say and in time people might accept you into our D-Blade sponsered Fraternity.

LOL!!!



You kill me.

Seriously there is great irony when those that are doing the most complaining want the most to be mods of the very board they are complaining about.

OR maybe getting what you want would be just dessert...

I'll tell you the woman's forum is spectacular because of the members that post up and share their failures and victories and those other members that support them. While there are regular mod posters and I can think of three that have really made a difference there - there always have been mod imput there but the board has never been better than it is now.

Something to consider.

 

[Protobuilder]

You guys are really proving my points....


See how objective you can be about another forum when you arent on it all the time??

Yes, yes. You are a cunning one! You've proven us completely and utterly wrong yet again and we played into your hands yet again! Drats! LoL You tricked us by being completely absent, all so that you could hone your awesome powers of objectivity!! Well played, sir. Well played. Now, since you're the only objective one of the bunch--we're not b/c we're regulars--we'll all listen to you b/c you're obviously right. LoL How old are you?

I unfortunately am having trouble taking the high road suggested by CS.

(1) I find it unbelievable that an “elite mod” would get involved in a defensive little back-and-forth w/ someone as irrelevant as myself.

(2) I also find it distasteful that an elite mod would take every opportunity to throw rocks at this forum and, indirectly, its members. You’ve joked sarcastically that posts go unread and that this is longest post on here blah blah blah . . . That’s cute, but the number of views/replies is not indicative of quality (see C&C if my point is unclear). Furthermore, you’ve stated repeatedly that this forum is a shadow of its former self. We know, we know, things were GREAT when you were around, but now you’ve left and it’s all our fault and it’ll never be great again until you return, LoL. But why did you leave in the first place? Did things get out of control on your watch and you just left rather than fix it? Did your advice get challenged/defeated? Regardless of why you left, if the board is now crap, why just bitch about it? Start posting again and show us how GREAT the board can be w/ your input.

(3) The “clique” business. What are you talking about? Where is this oppressive clique that shuns noobs? Who’s in the clique? Let’s see some evidence. People disagreeing w/ you is not evidence. People skipping over some posts is not evidence, as BiggT mentioned, you simply can’t/won’t address each and every post. Face it: you’re not active here. Thus, your picture is inaccurate. You BELIEVE that a clique here somehow stifles your posts. This is curious and disputed by each and every regular here. Additionally, your BELIEF is unsubstantiated. A number of noobs receive constructive advice daily, many of whom then start journals (myself included).

(4) Did it ever occur to you that nobody cares if you’re here if all you’re going to do is bitch and tell us that this forum sucks, we’re to blame, we’ve ruined the board, etc.? Did it ever occur to you that, after you left the board, it has since had a resurgence and that it is a good place again, even though (gasp!) you’re not here? Did it ever occur to you that some of the negative reaction you’ve received (and by a handful of people at most) is due to your ham-fisted, insulting re-entry into this forum? You started lobbing insults and getting defensive on day one. And please don’t say, “you guys MADE me do it.” LoL We were fine before you arrived, and we’ll be fine after you leave (for the 2d time). We’ve stated clearly what we seek and it’s being dealt with. You’re free to go now. Thanks for your help. You and your friends can talk about how crappy this board is now and about how GREAT (!) it was when you guys ruled the roost. We’ll just have to live with our dingy old training forum. In the meantime, we’ll keep ignoring posts from those who are not in the ultra-secret training forum clique, and we’ll keep sucking at t3h training b/c we don’t have your awesome advices! We’ll eventually get what we’ve been seeking--a mod from w/in--and things will run smoothly, noobs will show up, get treated respectfully, start journals, etc. And you won’t be missed.

 

[Cynical Simian]

I'll tell you the woman's forum is spectacular because of the members that post up and share their failures and victories and those other members that support them. While there are regular mod posters and I can think of three that have really made a difference there - there always have been mod imput there but the board has never been better than it is now.

Something to consider.

I spent quite a bit of time on the women's forum after The Shadow made a comment in AI's thread to the effect of "the women's board puts this one to shame" and couldn't agree more. It's probably the best board on EF (and I'm a non-plat, so you can't accuse me of saying that because of the member galleries ).

I don't think this board will ever be as free from dumb threads/people, simply because, along with AAS and maybe Diet, this is the place most likely to get "I wanna get hyooge for Spring Break"-type threads. But there's a lot more we can do in terms of content/stickies and having a serious and consistently on-topic board, and the women's forum is a great model on both counts.

 

[The Shadow]

Yes, yes. You are a cunning one! You've proven us completely and utterly wrong yet again and we played into your hands yet again! Drats! LoL You tricked us by being completely absent, all so that you could hone your awesome powers of objectivity!! Well played, sir. Well played. Now, since you're the only objective one of the bunch--we're not b/c we're regulars--we'll all listen to you b/c you're obviously right. LoL How old are you?

I unfortunately am having trouble taking the high road suggested by CS.

(1) I find it unbelievable that an “elite mod” would get involved in a defensive little back-and-forth w/ someone as irrelevant as myself.

YOU KNOW....THE ONLY REASON I AM DEFENSIVE IS B/C I HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF AT LEAST 3 THINGS WHICH I HAD NO PART OF. IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH ME PERSONALLY - TAKE IT TO PMS

(2) I also find it distasteful that an elite mod would take every opportunity to throw rocks at this forum and, indirectly, its members. You’ve joked sarcastically that posts go unread and that this is longest post on here blah blah blah . . . That’s cute, but the number of views/replies is not indicative of quality (see C&C if my point is unclear). Furthermore, you’ve stated repeatedly that this forum is a shadow of its former self. We know, we know, things were GREAT when you were around, but now you’ve left and it’s all our fault and it’ll never be great again until you return, LoL. But why did you leave in the first place? Did things get out of control on your watch and you just left rather than fix it? Did your advice get challenged/defeated? Regardless of why you left, if the board is now crap, why just bitch about it? Start posting again and show us how GREAT the board can be w/ your input.


HMMM....SO NO VIEWS IS INDICATIVE OF QUALITY??


RIIIIIGHT.....

I SAID THINGS WERE BETTER A WHILE BACK YES.

AM I RIGHT...I THINK SO.....THERE ARE VARIOUS REASONS....ONE IS THAT I CANT BE EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME TO KEEP JUNK POSTS AND SPAMMERS OUT OF HERE...I HAVE ENOUGH ON MY PLATE AS IT IS. HENCE ME PUSHING FOR YOU GUYS TO STOP CRYING ON EACH OTHERS' BACKS AND MAKE A POINTED EFFORT TO GET NEW MODS AS OPPOSED TO WASTING BANDWIDTH WITH THE SAME OLD PEDANIC BITCHING

(3) The “clique” business. What are you talking about? Where is this oppressive clique that shuns noobs? Who’s in the clique? Let’s see some evidence. People disagreeing w/ you is not evidence. People skipping over some posts is not evidence, as BiggT mentioned, you simply can’t/won’t address each and every post. Face it: you’re not active here. Thus, your picture is inaccurate. You BELIEVE that a clique here somehow stifles your posts. This is curious and disputed by each and every regular here. Additionally, your BELIEF is unsubstantiated. A number of noobs receive constructive advice daily, many of whom then start journals (myself included).

LOOK AROUND DUDE.

YOU CANT SAY THAT I NEVER POST AND THEN SAY THAT MY POSTS ARE STIFFLED...

SO, BASED ON THE FACT THAT I DO NOT POST - THAT IS INDICATIVE OF HOW MUCH I AM ACTUALLY AROUND READING ETC...YOU CANT ARGUE THINGS BOTH WAYS...YOU JUST SAID THAT NOT ALL POSTS ARE ADDRESSED..

YEAH - TOTALLY UBSUBSTANTIATED...JUST LIKE I AM THE ONLY PERSON WHO FEELS THAT THE FOURM IS A BIT SUB PAR FOR ITS POTENTIAL

(4) Did it ever occur to you that nobody cares if you’re here if all you’re going to do is bitch and tell us that this forum sucks, we’re to blame, we’ve ruined the board, etc.?

MAKE UP YOUR MIND....



ITS OK THAT I CLIP POLLS BUT I CANT EXPRESS AN OPINION ON THE STATE OF THINGS...WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT.

THE INANE BITCHING, JUST LIKE IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD DETRACTS FROM THE BOARD - YOU CANT ARGUE THAT


Did it ever occur to you that, after you left the board, it has since had a resurgence and that it is a good place again, even though (gasp!) you’re not here?

UM.....THAT IS CERTAINLY AN OPINION ORB.

Did it ever occur to you that some of the negative reaction you’ve received (and by a handful of people at most) is due to your ham-fisted, insulting re-entry into this forum? You started lobbing insults and getting defensive on day one. And please don’t say, “you guys MADE me do it.” LoL We were fine before you arrived, and we’ll be fine after you leave (for the 2d time). We’ve stated clearly what we seek and it’s being dealt with. You’re free to go now. Thanks for your help. You and your friends can talk about how crappy this board is now and about how GREAT (!) it was when you guys ruled the roost. We’ll just have to live with our dingy old training forum. In the meantime, we’ll keep ignoring posts from those who are not in the ultra-secret training forum clique, and we’ll keep sucking at t3h training b/c we don’t have your awesome advices! We’ll eventually get what we’ve been seeking--a mod from w/in--and things will run smoothly, noobs will show up, get treated respectfully, start journals, etc. And you won’t be missed.

AHHH BOO FUCKING HOO.......




FINE NOW??

LMFAO.....ASK AROUND OTHER BOARDS ABOUT THE QUALITY IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME - IT IS SERIOUSLY LACKING DUE TO THE SCHOOL GIRL MEALY MOUTHING AND HAIR PULLING.


IF YOU SPENT 1/10 THE AMOUNT OF TIME IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER MAKING REQUESTS TO ADMIN ABOU THE FOUM - IT WOULD BE CORRCTED BY NOW.




NOW IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO PLAY - PM ME

 

[The Shadow]

I spent quite a bit of time on the women's forum after The Shadow made a comment in AI's thread to the effect of "the women's board puts this one to shame" and couldn't agree more. It's probably the best board on EF (and I'm a non-plat, so you can't accuse me of saying that because of the member galleries ).

AND THERE IS A REASON FOR IT

I don't think this board will ever be as free from dumb threads/people, simply because, along with AAS and maybe Diet, this is the place most likely to get "I wanna get hyooge for Spring Break"-type threads. But there's a lot more we can do in terms of content/stickies and having a serious and consistently on-topic board, and the women's forum is a great model on both counts.

AGREED....



FOR FUCKS SAKE PEOPLE STOP THE BACK BITING

 

[stilleto]

earlier this week JA was calling me the N-word. Stilleto warned him and everyone in the thread that that kind of stuff isn't gonna be tolerated. what does AI do 2 days later? starts calling me names again. oh well.

when that happens, to you or anyone else, and you're offended by it- pm me the link please.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

I read it loud and clear.


We are holding off on new mods till the end of June.



-BRR