Ironhorse242 passed away

[bigtravis]

This is truely sad to hear. But even if you know you have a condition it is a sin to let that get you down. Live life to it's fullest everyday as if it were your last. I'm sure as he did.

 

[maldorf]

Maldorf, I read the 10 page thread you linked about your heart attack and subsequent heart arrythmia requiring a pacemaker.

You frightened the living daylights out of me. I'm 50 and my father had a fatal heart attack at age 49.

I appreciate you taking the time to write your story here, but considering the gravity of this topic and that people are dropping dead all over the place, I'd like to make a few points which seemed to have been overlooked in over 190 posts on that thread which I think are worthy of consideration.

1. You apparently had advance warnings that all was not well with your heart on MANY occasions.

You said in your opening post #1: "I was doing squats at the gym when the heart attack happened. I had just finished doing 3 sets of squats. 455x12, 405x13, 365x14. After racking the weight on the last set I felt really dizzy and sat down. After sitting for maybe half a minute I broke out in a cold sweat and my heart was beating rather fast. I didnt think too much of it though because Ive felt similar many times in the past when I push really hard on squats. Been lifting since I was 16, so over 20yrs now and Ive felt sick enough in the past that I have thrown up. So i figured I had just pushed it too hard."

You felt dizzy many times before when squatting. It's not normal to feel dizzy no matter how hard you push yourself. It's a sign there isn't enough oxygen reaching your brain which indicates your heart is failing to pump enough blood. This should have sent you running to the doctor long before you suffered a heart attack. Every single gym membership disclaimer states for people to cease exercising immediatly if feeling dizzy and see your doctor.

If a person is going to have a heart attack, it's most likely going to happen on the squat. There is no exercise which stresses the heart as much as squatting. You certainly did seem to have an obsession with high reps at very heavy weights.

The day of your heart attack you squatted: "455x12, 405x13, 365x14". You may not think so, but these are extremely heavy weights. Did you never consider doing 5, 8 or 10 reps like most normal humans? When you push past 10 reps, the oxygen debt becomes extreme under huge loads no matter how strong and fit you are. You would certainly be pushing the limits of your maximum heart rate on these sets. When you're pushing to the limits of your heart's ability to pump, even a tiny irregularity could prove fatal...and you did this for multiple sets.

Less than a month after your heart attack you said you did light squats. You said (post #101 on 15 August, 08): "Did 225 for squats for 26 reps and it feels so light, its hard not to want to put on some more plates. I will let my head rule over my heart though, and drop that weight even more so that I get out 30 or more"

Give me a break. You consider 225 x 26 a light squat workout a month out from a heart attack? That effort would put many healthy gym buffs on the floor. You were even contemplating 30 rep squats.

Did you ever consider leg presses, leg extension and other movements which don't stress the heart as much?

And then this...

Post #123 on 9 September, 08: "just a few days ago I threw my lower back out doing bentover rows with what I thought was a childlike weight"

You were doing bent over rows (another major heart stopper) so heavy that you put your back out less than 2 months after your heart attack. You call it a "childlike weight", but according to your interpretation of light weights it may well have been 225 or more.

And even worse...

You said (post #191 on 25 April, 09): "right now I am only squating 255 lbs, and used to use about 405 lbs for the same number of reps, which right now is about 17. I feel like the 255 is the highest I should risk."

You're now squatting 255 for 17 reps WITH A PACEMAKER!!!

2. I noticed that you never once mentioned anything about what steroids you were taking and your cycles. You did mention that you considered your use "moderate compared to others", but if your idea of moderate equates in anyway to what you consider moderate in lifting, it is probably far from moderate. You continually blame steroid use for your heart attack, so wouldn't it help for people to get some idea of exactly what you've been taking over the last 8 years or so.

You did state that you tend to overtrain. (That must be the overstatement of the decade). Perhaps your obsession with pushing yourself to the point of sickness for 20 years in the gym has contributed to your condition. People often cause overstress injuries to skeletal muscles, tendons, ligaments and joints in the gym. Could you have overstessed the most important muscle of all?

I do not really want to go into my case here on this thread. I feel bad for drawing the attention away from the tragedy that the thread was started for. If you want to debate, go over to the other site and do it on that post. thanks.

 

[FunFun]

I do not really want to go into my case here on this thread. I feel bad for drawing the attention away from the tragedy that the thread was started for. If you want to debate, go over to the other site and do it on that post. thanks.

I've said enough. I won't be joining another forum to debate this.

 

[lookinfit75]

The cause of his passing is not really an issue. We lost a good bro. Place the blame where ever you will. People will argue that steroids were the cause, people will say that steroids were not the cause. No on will ever know for sure. We all make a choice to do what we do and no one can convince us that the choice is good or bad.

Don't tarnish the mans memory by bashing the choices he made. Even if you don't agree with what he did, let this thread honor the man...and start another thread to let your opinions be known.

I don't think anyone is bashing this brother or the choices he made because if that were the case, we'd all be a bunch of hypocrites. Honestly, I haven't stopped thinking about this story and the numerous similar stories I have found on similar boards.
What we are doing is speaking openly and calmly about the reality of the choices that most of us on this board make in relation to his choice i.e. using A.A.S. I think it would be a disservice to his memory if we sweep this under the rug and pretended like there weren't circumstances related to his choices that could have possibly had a negative effect on his health and possibly contributed to his untimely demise.
Bottom line is we probably will NEVER know for sure what killed him. All we do know is that he was a big, muscular guy (competitive bodybuilder by all accounts) who used roids and died WAY too young.

 

[lookinfit75]

I do not really want to go into my case here on this thread. I feel bad for drawing the attention away from the tragedy that the thread was started for. If you want to debate, go over to the other site and do it on that post. thanks.

I think it would be a good idea for you to continue this conversation here. Especially since this part of your journey is evolving here in EF. If you feel that it's inappropriate to continue within this thread which I totally understand, then by all means start a new one so we can all further discuss your ordeal and so that others might learn and possibly avoid life threatening injury or death. We ALWAYS hear about the guy that dies unexpectedly but we never ever, get a chance to actually have an open dialog with that "one guy" who survives.
Please give it some thought as I think it would be useful for those who choose to use a.a.s.

 

[maldorf]

I think it would be a good idea for you to continue this conversation here. Especially since this part of your journey is evolving here in EF. If you feel that it's inappropriate to continue within this thread which I totally understand, then by all means start a new one so we can all further discuss your ordeal and so that others might learn and possibly avoid life threatening injury or death. We ALWAYS hear about the guy that dies unexpectedly but we never ever, get a chance to actually have an open dialog with that "one guy" who survives.
Please give it some thought as I think it would be useful for those who choose to use a.a.s.

truth be told, I am now getting a bit worn out talking about it so much. I think I got the message out, and posting about it more probably wont do a whole lot more. All I know right now is that I wish that I had never gone down the road that I did. I disreguarded the known risks, thinking that I would never be one of the select number of people to have problems. I did discover some risks that I wasnt aware of.
The biggest risks is to your heart IMO. Things like: high blood pressure and high hematocrit are dangerous. It also changes the way your blood clots, which I found out the hard way. If youre going to be using, get plenty of tests like a CBC and keep an eye on your vitals. Getting a checkup 2x a year or more would be a good idea too.
All of this considered, at the time of my heart attack the only thing about me that was testing abnormal was my hematocrit. To get that down I ended up blood letting myself since they wouldnt take my blood at the bank. The hematocrit was down when I had my heart attack so it wasnt that. I later find out that steroids affect the ever so complicated clotting cascade. Something went haywire with me. Steorids also affect the metabolism of cardiac cells and can cause cardiomyopathy. At least one guy over at profession muscle got that. I also had that. Take it as you may.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

truth be told, I am now getting a bit worn out talking about it so much. I think I got the message out, and posting about it more probably wont do a whole lot more. All I know right now is that I wish that I had never gone down the road that I did. I disreguarded the known risks, thinking that I would never be one of the select number of people to have problems. I did discover some risks that I wasnt aware of.
The biggest risks is to your heart IMO. Things like: high blood pressure and high hematocrit are dangerous. It also changes the way your blood clots, which I found out the hard way. If youre going to be using, get plenty of tests like a CBC and keep an eye on your vitals. Getting a checkup 2x a year or more would be a good idea too.
All of this considered, at the time of my heart attack the only thing about me that was testing abnormal was my hematocrit. To get that down I ended up blood letting myself since they wouldnt take my blood at the bank. The hematocrit was down when I had my heart attack so it wasnt that. I later find out that steroids affect the ever so complicated clotting cascade. Something went haywire with me. Steorids also affect the metabolism of cardiac cells and can cause cardiomyopathy. At least one guy over at profession muscle got that. I also had that. Take it as you may.

I agree that the heart is the only side effect that can be dangerous and not controlled.

Would this happen to someone who cycles it, takes plenty of off time and proper PCT, and doesnt take insane doses? Or does any steroid you put it for however long gonna fuck with your heart. Do your hematocrit and metabolism of cardia cells go back to normal after stopping?

i am young and just did my first cycle test 500mg 11 weeks and dbol at begining, a prohormone at the end.

 

[SaiBoT]

This is sad, RIP Ironhorse! But on the thread he started a few years back, the people who mentioned the CK levels (creatinine kinase) were right because when doing a real intense workout muscle breakdown occurs, causing the release of CK to the bloodstream, which explains why in the further tests everything was alright, this happens to everybody and by that i mean juice heads and drug-free weightlifters so he was probably healthy at the time and the steroids had nothing to do with it back then.

Nonetheless may his example, Guardian's and a few others teach us to respect all bodybuilding related drugs and also make us think twice before giving advice about cycles and all that stuff!

 

[maldorf]

I agree that the heart is the only side effect that can be dangerous and not controlled.

Would this happen to someone who cycles it, takes plenty of off time and proper PCT, and doesnt take insane doses? Or does any steroid you put it for however long gonna fuck with your heart. Do your hematocrit and metabolism of cardia cells go back to normal after stopping?

i am young and just did my first cycle test 500mg 11 weeks and dbol at begining, a prohormone at the end.

From the research and experience that doctors have now it seems like the heart can recover back to its original smaller size but a lot of the damage is permanent. The person I know over on PM that has cardiomyopathy now has raised his ejection fraction up to about 45 now from a low of 20 or so when he first discovered the problem. He is now like me and doesnt use except for HRT dose. He was lucky and did not have a heart attack. Once you have a heart attack like I did the damage is permanent. As I age my ejection fraction is going to slowly go down more and more till I get to the point where I will need a transplant. Nobdoy can say for sure how long this is going to be for me. Hopefully a long time.

 

[juniorsamples]

God be with your family and Rest In Peace Ironhorse 242.