Instant banishment for asking this.....

[Andy13]

I'm really getting tired of seeing "which test is best..." threads..


Guys-- it's really simple-- All testosterone's are the same..

ALL testosterone injections peak within the first 24 hrs.. The shorter the ester, the higher the initial peak, the more often you need to inject, the more difficult it is to maintain stable blood concentrations. The longer the ester, the shorter the initial peak, the longer it stays in your system.



T-enanthate- Inject EOD for best results
T-propionate- inject ED for best results
T-suspension- inject like a mother fucker for stable blood concentrations.

Sustanon--- this compound can be looked at as if it were a single ester testosterone with a half life of between 4-6 days..

Please take this post into consideration the next time you ask "which test is best." If you are talking about brand names with underdosing taken into consideration, that's one thing...

Andy

 

[badazzwhitedude]

I don't get it. So which one did you say was best?

J/k bro'.

 

[badazzwhitedude]

I wanted to ask you something though. I remember you saying that you don't bother saying how big you are, because everyone can be a big m0f0 behind a keyboard if they do decide to lie about it. You don't believe in posting pics because you feel that people have egos that need to be fed.

But what about your cycle(s)? I would be curious to know what you are currently on, or what you used last, or what you plan for your next cycle, if you didn't mind telling us. You are a very knowledgeable person, and I am curious to see what you like.

 

[youngdeltman]

Good luck to anyone planning on injecting prop or suspension as often as Andy recomends

 

[luv2lift!]

I've never heard of injecting ethanate EOD, I always thought it was 1 or 2 times a week.

 

[Spunky]

enanthate EOD? I always do good injecting mon and thurs

 

[Andy13]

enanthate EOD? I always do good injecting mon and thurs

Of course you will grow injecting it once or twice a week...

But have you seen the graphs??? The more it is injected, the more stable the blood concentrations..

Andy

 

[Andy13]

I wanted to ask you something though. I remember you saying that you don't bother saying how big you are, because everyone can be a big m0f0 behind a keyboard if they do decide to lie about it. You don't believe in posting pics because you feel that people have egos that need to be fed.

But what about your cycle(s)? I would be curious to know what you are currently on, or what you used last, or what you plan for your next cycle, if you didn't mind telling us. You are a very knowledgeable person, and I am curious to see what you like.

lol... I'm 5'10'' ~200lbs.. My friends joke with me and tell me I look like a Backstreet Boy on AAS..

Andy

 

[serge]

"Good luck to anyone planning on injecting prop or suspension as often as Andy recomends "

im shooting suspension twice a day, at over a gram per week with 700mg/tren week (ed shots), with .25mg/arimidex/ed i have got no water retension, compared to last cycle i shot suspension once per day and held a bit of water.

 

[MikeyLikesJuice]

what about cyp injections

 

[CYCLEON]

I wanted to ask you something though. I remember you saying that you don't bother saying how big you are, because everyone can be a big m0f0 behind a keyboard if they do decide to lie about it. You don't believe in posting pics because you feel that people have egos that need to be fed.

But what about your cycle(s)? I would be curious to know what you are currently on, or what you used last, or what you plan for your next cycle, if you didn't mind telling us. You are a very knowledgeable person, and I am curious to see what you like.

who cares - as long as he is right!

 

[Zyglamail]

Good luck to anyone planning on injecting prop or suspension as often as Andy recomends

If your looking for best results from a given amount of AAS poking every day with prop should be a given. Anyways, I suppose if you have had you share of fina, then ed pokes are nothing new anyways.

Of course you will grow injecting it once or twice a week...

But have you seen the graphs??? The more it is injected, the more stable the blood concentrations.

Andy, sometimes dont ya just want to throw your hands in the air, turn around and walk away? Perhaps the guy on the other thread was right and to many our clarification with numbers and pictures just made things to complicated for people? I thought if it got any clearer it would blind ya, but I guess I was wrong

 

[hookuprx]

what about cyp injections

Comprable to Enanthate. I am shooting it currently 3 times a week.

derrick m.
--
#!

 

[Zyglamail]

Comprable to Enanthate. I am shooting it currently 3 times a week.

Yep I agree, 3 days a week minimum, even with deca I would do 3 days a week. For my next cycle I was planning 3x a week with eq and enth, since im gonna be using fina too, im gonna have a needle in me every day and I figured I would alternate days with eq and enth, but silly me, I should just be doing all 3 (fina/test/eq) every day since im gonna with the fina anyways.

 

[MikeyLikesJuice]

thanks zyglamail and hookuprx

 

[panerai]

Andy, I'm not doubting your info, but still it's very intresting for me to know, were it come from? I mean, the part about every ester peaking in 24 hours?
Can you provide some references?

 

[Zyglamail]

panerai, when he says it peaks, he means just for a single injection, not for the whole cycle. The highest amount of hydrolized AAS occurs withing 24 hours, after that the amount decreases a little every day, how much it decreases is based on the half life of the ester.

If you do the math (as in one of andy's old posts, or from any relevent half life formula) you will see that the largest amount of AAS is hydrolized during the first 24hours. After that the amount hydrolized will decrease every day. Now in a normal cycle there are multiple applications of the drug so as the hydrolized AAS reduces from a previous inj, a new one occures so its hydrolized AAS is actually added to the previous inj and give a cumulative effect.

For some specifics, check this article

 

[big e 75]

ANDY

Just curoius, where did you get these "graphs"

My GF is a doctor and she took one look at them and called bullshit. She said to get "continous" data like that you would need to take a blood sample every 15 minutes. You would run out of blood soon! Also, these compounds act differently in every person. There is way to tell in individual cases whether you fit these "graphs".

It seems logical to me and she is a doc so I believe it. I understand that being a doc doesn't always make you the authority on things...especially AS.

Not flaming you but just where did this info come from?

 

[panerai]

Hm...on a contrary to what you and Andy are saying, some parts of the article show that ester Decanoate peaks in 5 days, after single injection of 100mg of Nandrolone Decanoate.
Check this:

If you look at time peak (in days) it has 5

Also, looking at those graphs, you can see, that it is 5 days, not 24 hours.

Am I missing something?

 

[maxes21]

like alot of you guys im also confused on some of andy's theorys, and his grafs. if i understand it right, i guess hes saying (using enanthate as example) that u can keep a more consistant blood level in your system by injecting say eod, instead of injecting say 400-1000mg in just one shot or even 2. but i guess that would only apply if u were using 500mg+in a cycle, am i right? i hope i am cause all i read every where is to inject enanthat on a weekly basis.

 

[panerai]

The more often you inject the better it is, there's no question about it, and Andy is absolutely right in his theories.
The only little thing I have doubts about is his statement that all the injectables will peak in 24 hours period of time, no matter what ester is. But, it has nothing to do with his theory, in general, it's just minor part, and is more of detail, which is not important to the whole point.
Still, would like to hear from Andy about the sources of 24-hrs peaking time...

 

[panerai]

BigE, as far, as I understand, his graphs are based on calculations, and not on real blood samples taken in real life experiment and analized in a lab. It's still, pretty much accurate, and looks like a very good guide for users of steroids, at least in my opinion.

 

[maxes21]

i dont understand how the more often u inject the better it is?say with enanthat. where i gained 20lbs injecting 250mg once a week. are u saying that if i inject alot more eod that im going to gain alot more then the 20lbs on a cycle, say at the least 10lbs more or even another 20lbs? cause u would think that injeting enanthate eod is going to give you mass more gains then the weekly injection, right?

 

[gorth97]

ANDY

Just curoius, where did you get these "graphs"

My GF is a doctor and she took one look at them and called bullshit. She said to get "continous" data like that you would need to take a blood sample every 15 minutes. You would run out of blood soon! Also, these compounds act differently in every person. There is way to tell in individual cases whether you fit these "graphs".

It seems logical to me and she is a doc so I believe it. I understand that being a doc doesn't always make you the authority on things...especially AS.

Not flaming you but just where did this info come from?

I think Andy's graphs are theoretical, not experimental. He probably calculated the data using half life and other information.

BTW, can someone explain to me what "Knock on wood" means. I've seen that phase around in a couple of threads.

 

[Super Sport]

so if this theory is correct and fundamentally sound, injecting enan. every day is even better, and twice a day even better still........ reality: NO IT IS NOT

at some point there is hormone regulation in your body, and the law of diminishing return.

most of the hormone injected into your body is excreted in case you guys' didnt know that. somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-90% of it is either pissed or crapped out.

more is not always better, ESPECIALLY when it comes to AS. there is a peak dosage which varies for almost every athlete.

more than that optimum dosage for you will just be excreted as nitrogenous wastes, and it will get frustratingly expensive as well as painful and inconvenient.

some might argue that they took more and seen better results, and it just goes back to how acustemed their body is to AS, long time users might have a higher optimum dosage, and anything over that is essentially useless.

typical athletes would probably see their OPTIMUM results from a dosage regimen of around 500 mg. per week of a long-ester test. (lipid phase), coupled with an effective dose of about 200-400 durabolin-based hormone. advanced athletes might have higher peak requirements, however, the novice, first time user, and beginer athlete would not see significant gains past those dosages, and would only put themselves in a higher risk category for side-effects, spend alot of money, and risk infections and suffer the pain and soreness associated with frequent injections.

That is some free advice from a very trustworth source (me )

no flames intended.

 

[brianharper94]

Knock on Wood is an old saying. Some people believe that it can keep something bad from happening. Like if you said, "Goly gee, my shit never does get seized by customs," then you would be jinxing yourself and your next load of shit would probably get seized by customs. However, if you knock on wood after you say it, then you would un-jinx yourself. Hope this helps you out bro. As far as all of these time graphs and half-life stuff goes, just get yourself some Sustanon 250 and shoot it every 2 or 3 days. Then you have the short test kicking, the middle test kicking, and the long test kicking. As long as you grow like a motherfucker, do you really give a shit? I know i don't, but thanks for teying to educate us Andy. I guess most of us don't want to have to think too much about it. Just give us something that will work and we're happy, we don't have to know how and why it works, just that it works. As far as the last post goes, can you piss out an injectable? I don't think you can, but then again I'm not exactly Mr. Fucking Wizard.

I always grow like a motherfucker on sust, knock on wood.

bh

 

[panerai]

Super Sport, nobody said that more is better, more often is better, is not the same, as more is better.
Take 1500mg of Primoteston, for example: you can do 6cc once a week, as opposed to 1cc for 6 day, taking one day off.
The later one will produce better gains and less side effects then first example. Same dosage, different approche, different results.

 

[STORM SHADOW]

sheeeeeeeeeesh.......nobody is saying take more.......more often. When people read Zyg & Andy's posts......do they just glance over the info are start making comments?

Break this down for you........they really mean.......less .......more often. Take this for instance......a person that does 150mgs of Fina EOD will NOT have as good results as a person doing 75mgs ED. Or a person doing a gram of test in one shot will not do as well as a person that took that gram of test seperated over a weeks period.

Also.....I can't believe that anybody thought they were drawing blood out for their graphs. You don't need the blood.......you can rely on known data......or predictable outcome based current research. FYI....every planet beyond Jupiter was found mathamatically.....they were not seen until years later when telescopes were big enough to see them.....& they were right where the math said they were.

The Meek will NOT inherit the earth.......
The Republicans will.

 

[Zyglamail]

I think Andy's graphs are theoretical, not experimental. He probably calculated the data using half life and other information.

BINGO!!!

Good gawd, I left this thread last night to come back and find all sorts of questions that have been answered so many times. On thing that sucks about these boards is when threads get to long, people quit reading and then they go off half cocked.

So, let me try and explaine some of the comments I see here.

Hm...on a contrary to what you and Andy are saying, some parts of the article show that ester Decanoate peaks in 5 days, after single injection of 100mg of Nandrolone Decanoate.

Why is it that everyone always reads right past the text and looks at the pictures? In past threads here it has been stated multiple times that there are a large amount of facters in determining actual blood levels. Some of these are inj volume, AAS concentration, inj location etc etc etc. This are UNKNOWNS and highly variable. As was stated many times in the past these charts ONLY represent the release of AAS taking into account the AAS half life. There currently is not enough real life testing to incorporate the other variables at this time and that is the main reason these charts show otherwise. People are misconstruing these charts and numbers as pure fact when time and time again they are a simple representation of ONE piece of the puzzle. Inaccurate, of course they are, but at present, the numbers and real life experience is all there is to go on since scientific studies do not push the envelope and cover the exact methods we need.

so if this theory is correct and fundamentally sound, injecting enan. every day is even better, and twice a day even better still........ reality: NO IT IS NOT

Supersport, once again it appears you skipped over most of the info and jumped to a conclusion. When frequent injections are recommended, it DOES NOT mean that more gear is injected, it means to divide the dose into smaller amounts and take it more frequently.

i dont understand how the more often u inject the better it is?say with enanthat. where i gained 20lbs injecting 250mg once a week.

maxes21, the theory is very, very simple and the pictures where to help in understanding the theory behind many of the comments. Let me try and give you an example of dosing frequency and benefits. Lets say you get strep throat and the doc gives you a prescription for oral penecilian. The pharmacists says take 1 tablet in AM and 1 PM for 10 days straight. Now, what do you think would happen if you simply took one pill every day, or one pill every other day? Penecilian does not last long in our bodies in oral form so it needs to be administered 2x daily. If we stretch out the dosing, the drugs potency goes down and blood levels fall to an inefectual dose. Then a day later, we take a pill, blood levels go up and up/down cycle is repeated. AAS works the same way. We are not saying that you cant get by with bi weekly injections, you can, what we are saying is that eod injections reduce the peaks and valleys in blood levels and a more steady concentration results in better gains.

sheeeeeeeeeesh.......nobody is saying take more.......more often. When people read Zyg & Andy's posts......do they just glance over the info are start making comments?

Thanks storm, at least somebody takes the time to actually read before discounting new ideas.

 

[panerai]

Zyg, I read the whole study very carefully, not just looked at the pictures, and I'm suggesting you getting your facts together before you start patronizing others, because the all round and around and about bs, that you just answered doesn't explaine anything.
If you have no answer, don't try!
Do you have references to the "fact" that all the esters peak in 24 hrs, or not? Because, the article you posted, which I posted on this board long before you even read it, BTW, does prove opposite!

 

[MikeyLikesJuice]

i was planning on doing ttokkyo cyp shots twice a week, monday 300mg and thursday 300mg, with 30-40mg of d-bol a day, this isn't enough?

I only like shotting in the glute, two spots, so I have to rest each spot a week. Would it make that big of a difference shooting 3 times a week 200mg? If not a big difference I don't mind. Thanks

 

[The Iron Game]

You want my 0.2? I disagree with enanthate/cypionate eod.

Whatever you do you will get results say enanthate twice a week compared to enanthate every other day. Are you telling me the every other day you will really gain x lbs more than you would twice weekly.

Theory is good and nice but in practise there is always a different story.

Of course we can say enanthate everyother day, most peaks are within 24-48 hours of injection so why not shoot daily.

Seriously why dont we just shoot everything 2 times a day

I have never heard of a newbie complaining when he gained 30lbs of weight injecting 500mgs of sust once a week.

You also have to consider how pointless it would be to start shooting 0.25cc's daily or every other day to keep within the required amount of steroid.

No hard feelings Ears

 

[serge]

....what we are saying is that eod injections reduce the peaks and valleys in blood levels and a more steady concentration results in better gains."

not only will it result in better gains but also much less sides commonly seen with testosterones.

 

[Zyglamail]

Zyg, I read the whole study very carefully, not just looked at the pictures, and I'm suggesting you getting your facts together before you start patronizing others, because the all round and around and about bs, that you just answered doesn't explaine anything.

The comment was not geared toward your reading of the link(article) I posted, it was in regards to the original posts stating that the graphs posted here were only a small peice of the puzzle and not a actual representation. People keep reading over the spots where it is stated that we do not have 100% of the info, no one does, we are simply pursueing further the data we can accuratly represent, which of course does not take into account the many other variables, its just one small peice of the puzzle as stated many times before. Anyways, it seems that no matter how much we can say the data is not a 100% representation, there are people like you who will read into it and say we said it was pure paft. Pan, You somehow took my above comments as an attack, which they were not meant to be sorry if I offended you. But it does get old when you simple follow an idea, explain its shortcomming and are continually ridiculed for the shortcomming even after admitting they are there from the start. Remember that people once thought the world was flat too.

You also have to consider how pointless it would be to start shooting 0.25cc's daily or every other day to keep within the required amount of steroid.

I dont think anyone is disounting weather or not existing cycle outlines work. What is being stated and proved by real experience though is that incorporating these ideas does tend to improve gains using the same amount of gear. Nothing more, nothing less. Every one has to wiegh thier options, for my next cycle I will be doing fina ed, so why not take the extra couple minutes to add my eq and enth to the same pin? Whats it gonna hurt?



I get the feeling this is turning into a holy war and we have people yelling "where is the proof!!" when no proof exists that is 100% encomapssing of all the ideas mentioned. We have tried to explaine time and time again that we are aware that many things can not truely be accounted for yet people still harp on the "holes" left in the theory aven after we admit them. To those people, dont like it dont read it or follow it, its that simple.

 

[berry de mey]

well

the less holes in youre ass the better,the24 hours sounds imposible to find out,u dont even feel the sust or testo or testex till about 2 or 3 days so how can it peek in 24 hours and not feel a thing??the only thing thats fast is andriol or suspen,and its even faster than that,good words from all bro...

 

[The Iron Game]

....what we are saying is that eod injections reduce the peaks and valleys in blood levels and a more steady concentration results in better gains."

Yes and I am saying this is all theory and nothing else. Prove to me how many more lbs of muscle tissue are you going to get over shooting enanthate ester every other day as oppopsed to every 3.5 days. You guys are trying to make things to complicated.

People gain 30lbs of 500mgs of sust and some dbol on an 8 week cycle. Do you want him to gain 32lbs for the sake of injecting every other day?

Of course injecting every other day or even daily will be the most efficient but is it needed? no

So I want to shoot 750mgs of enanthate a week in 3cc's you suggest me injecting under 200mgs every other day?

Come on.

As Decaman says, theory is nothing without real world back up.


[QUOTE}not only will it result in better gains but also much less sides commonly seen with testosterones.[/QUOTE]

please come on, I dont have silly written on my head you are telling me I will experience a noticeable increase in side effects if I injected every third.5th day as oppossed to every other day? Under what conclusion do you make this rule?

Even IF it was true anti estrogens, proscar and a host of other goods will not make these sides any different. the truth is they are not even needed.

 

[badazzwhitedude]

It's quite easy to follow. Andy and Zyg aren't saying tht you must inject Enanthate or Cyo EOD for results. I am doing Enanthate every 4 days at the moment, and am having good results. All I can say based on the theories, which make perfect sense, is to inject as often as you are comforatble with. If you can add one more injection to your schedule each week, with the volume in each injection being slightly smaller because of the added injection so you are still taking the same amount of steroid on a weekly basis, then do it. Less spikes means that much less of a chance developing gyno, having hair loss, etc, although the differences may be negligable.

 

[The Iron Game]

I dont think anyone is disounting weather or not existing cycle outlines work. What is being stated and proved by real experience though is that incorporating these ideas does tend to improve gains using the same amount of gear. Nothing more, nothing less. Every one has to wiegh thier options, for my next cycle I will be doing fina ed, so why not take the extra couple minutes to add my eq and enth to the same pin? Whats it gonna hurt?

Proved by real world experience?

That shooting enanthate/cypionate/ every other day causes less sides and produces more gains than someone shooting twice a week?

These sides are negligible and so are the sides that come with it.

If u r doing fina every day yes then combine, but how many guys on here do you see doing every day injections? 10% of the board. Newbies no way.

 

[Ulter]

No offence guys really but Panerai has asked twice now where you get this "the esters all peak in 24 hours" BS from . And I still don't see an answer. I see Zyg writing a novel trying to back-pedal off his and Andy's posts. I see him trying to explain that everything the dynamic duo posts is meanless mental masturbation because there are too many variables to make it science or even a plausible theory. Are either of you two planning on ever answering Panerai's question or not?

I have been inject E3D for a very long time. No problems. My physician recommends to his patients that they inject his deca/test cyp cocktail E4D and you know what E4D is the way every endocrinologist I have ever spoken to administers hormone injections to their patients. So before you armchair endocrinologists start doling out advice to everyone that they inject EOD why don't you ask those in the Medical Community what they think.

WWW.ANABOLICFITNESS.NET

 

[The Iron Game]

Less spikes means that much less of a chance developing gyno, having hair loss, etc.

The enzyme aromatase is responsible for the conversion of testosterone to estradiol.

Simple, high levels of test DO aromatase, estrogen is there and its irrelevant, if you are prone to gyno you will get it more chance if you use the testosterone more frequently. The more test or the higher peak levels of test the more chance for conversion.

If I shoot 500mgs enanthate once a week. I have the spike then the fall until day 7 when I inject again. Rather than getting up to the peak all at once and keeping the peak there all the time. This will cause estrogen more with this theory.

Spikes of shooting enanthate every other day as oppossed to every third. 5th day is gonna cause me gyno and save me hair loss?

No. negligible

 

[theoak01]

ANDY

Just curoius, where did you get these "graphs"

My GF is a doctor and she took one look at them and called bullshit. She said to get "continous" data like that you would need to take a blood sample every 15 minutes. You would run out of blood soon! Also, these compounds act differently in every person. There is way to tell in individual cases whether you fit these "graphs".

It seems logical to me and she is a doc so I believe it. I understand that being a doc doesn't always make you the authority on things...especially AS.

Not flaming you but just where did this info come from?

jsut cuz she is a doc doesnt mean she knows everything,its damn near impossible to find a doctor who is really educated in anabolics

 

[BigWh1tey]

a graph

http://archfami.ama-assn.org/issues/v8n3/fig_tab/fcr7024_f2.html

 

[badazzwhitedude]

The enzyme aromatase is responsible for the conversion of testosterone to estradiol.

Simple, high levels of test DO aromatase, estrogen is there and its irrelevant, if you are prone to gyno you will get it more chance if you use the testosterone more frequently. The more test or the higher peak levels of test the more chance for conversion.

If I shoot 500mgs enanthate once a week. I have the spike then the fall until day 7 when I inject again. Rather than getting up to the peak all at once and keeping the peak there all the time. This will cause estrogen more with this theory.

Spikes of shooting enanthate every other day as oppossed to every third. 5th day is gonna cause me gyno and save me hair loss?

No. negligible

IG, I am not sure if I understood what you wrote here. I said with more frequent injections, sides could be fewer, not with less frequent, or every "5th day" as you put it. But I also said that the differences may be negilgible, or so small that you may not even notice it.

Some shoot Enanthate just once week. But I think most would agree that every 3 or 4 days would provide better results. In that case, what Andy and Zyg are saying about keeping blood levels more stable makes perfect sense. But when you are talking about shooting it every 3 or 4 days, as opposed to EOD, I think the difference you would get with such an ester would be almost non-existant. Personally, I feel every 4 days with Enanthate is good enough for me.

 

[The Iron Game]

I gave enanthate a 7 day half life

Zyg, according to this 'tried and tested theory' then enanthate (a half life of 7 days) and should be shot every other day for optimum results.

The trenbolone acetate, a half life of 24 hours should be shot every 6-8 hours?

My point is all of this is getting silly

 

[hard]

what about cyp injections

cyp and eth are essencially the same. From what i have read you can use the same dose and frequency.

 

[NYStrip]

How does all that oil get absorbed from day to day?

 

[The Iron Game]

IG, I am not sure if I understood what you wrote here. I said with more frequent injections, sides could be fewer

why would estrogen related side effects be any different? as long as you have any amount of testosterone inside you it will still be aromatising into estrogen. The more constant the peak is the higher the test inside you the more test you have to convert to estrogen.

But I also said that the differences may be negilgible, or so small that you may not even notice it.

Yes pretty much nailed it.

Some shoot Enanthate just once week. But I think most would agree that every 3 or 4 days would provide better results. In that case, what Andy and Zyg are saying about keeping blood levels more stable makes perfect sense. But when you are talking about shooting it every 3 or 4 days, as opposed to EOD, I think the difference you would get with such an ester would be almost non-existant. Personally, I feel every 4 days with Enanthate is good enough for me. [/B]

Yep nailed it again. apart from it making more sense

 

[serge]

Iron, ok say you will administer steroid X, ed due to its short half life, now when you inject it, you body gets a big boost all at once, then the blood concentration begins to decline. during that big boost you are more likely to experience negetive sides then if you were to inject that same drug in 2 devided doses. I think this is where ineffectiveness of dboll to generate solid keepable tissue comes into play, with dboll you have consistent blood concentration during the day but at night it falls, so you are building during the day and at night got nothing in you body to sustain the growth.

 

[big e 75]

This has all gotten way out of hand. I think we all see that it "may" be beneficial (altough we don't know how much more) to inject at shorter time intervals. NOT taking any more gear than normal, just smaller dose, more often. Reality as many have pointed out, less holes in my backside is very important!! Again, the benefits are probably very slight and the actual practice of taking test once or twice per week works best for most people.

Believe me, I wish I could start an IV drip of pure test right now!!
That would go alond with more often is better, a constant flow of gear!

That would be awesome! It may be hard to get around the gym with that stupid pole on wheels with a bag hanging off, but I 'd risk it!!

Good debate guys!

 

[maxes21]

serge that is why we wake up in the middle of the night to take a d-bol or 2, please tell me u do this?

 

[BlckSheep]

There's...some...MONEY BEIN' MADE AROUND HERE HEY!

A new product that merges the medical benefits of a syringe with the rapid fire poking benefits of a tatoo gun. Anyone feel me on this one?

 

[serge]

" serge that is why we wake up in the middle of the night to take a d-bol or 2, please tell me u do this?"

no, i just dont take dboll anymore, my liver enzymes got a little too high, so i just take more test and tren. Oh yeah, taking 1 or 2 dbolls once a nigh is not going to make much of a difference, you will have to administer it every 3-4 hours like im sure you do during the day.

 

[The Iron Game]

Serge do you shoot your fina or winny every 6 hours?


No, and now one can come on this thread and say that by shooting enanthate every other day as oppossed to every 3rd or 4th day is going to prevent them from having side effects or reduce the side effects. Theory is all this post is.

Once test has built up in our system unless we use aromatase inhibitor we will have estrogen related side effects. So it doesnt matter as long as you shoot twice a week. The side effects and the rewards are negligible.

Theory Theory Theory

 

[maxes21]

yes serge that is what im talking about. i take a 5mg d-bol every 4 hours,and take one in the middle of the night. if ur not going to take one durring the night and u go 8 hours w/out a d-bol then u have something wrong with you.cause u aint going to get the whole benifit like u were talking about.

 

[Andy13]

Wow... This thread has totally gotten out of hand..

How about the distance from the Earth to the moon? They didn't measure that with a tape measure... They used other data to measure the distance.. So since they didn't drag a tape measure out to the moon from the Earth, the distance that scientists say is between the two is no better than what your magic 8-ball says?

Man, you guys sure cannot appreciate theory.. And please don't compare "theory" to "real world results" unless you plan on having you blood tested daily. "I gained 30 lbs from injecting sustanon once a week" doesn't mean shit.

Can we all agree that the more even the blood concentration, the less the sides the greater the results? Can we come to an agreement on that? I mean, you really can't say that injecting 2000mg of enanthate every two weeks is better than 1000mg every week, can you? Then lets take that one step further--- Can we make a generalization that the more you inject, the less the sides? Is there a point of deminishing returns? Absolutely there is!! But that is up the the individual BBer to decide.


All Zyg and I were trying to do was provide you with a visual based on the only semi-solid data we have to go on, the half life. Nobody said it was perfect and nobody said that EVERY person will expirience the same effects. But that doesn't mean that it's trash! What do you have that's better? The highly sophisticated analytical tool of "how you feel?" Give me a break.

I welcome "real world data." But please don't tell me how many pounds you gained or how you *felt.* Remember how we said there are some "variables" in our graphs that cannot be accounted for? Well, if you want to talk about some "holes" that make data invalid, lets talk about all the psychological and physiological "holes" that can make someone think one cycle or way of cycling is better than another...

Remember--(thank you, B Roberts) detergent manufactures can provide you with tons of research that shows that the exact same detergent, put in boxes that are different in color and size get markedly different reviews on how well the whiten and brighten their clothes..


Look guys-- Zyg and I are just trying to do you guys a favor.. We already know this shit.. We're trying to help you guys out.. If you don't appreciate the help, fine, fuck you. But do yourself a favor and refrane from replying with something like "everyone is different.." That just shows your ignorance.


When it comes down to injections can we state for a fact that the more often injected, the more stable blood concnetrations? Fuck yes we can.. It just makes sence.. Now, will you grow if you inject at the half life, or twice the half life? Of course you will.. Saying this "theory" is bullshit b/c you took fina E3D and got results is just fucking rediculous.. It says nothing. Bottom line-- inject as often as you want to.. I'm not your mother or your doctor.. I don't give a fuck how many times you inject something. Zyg and I just presented this information to prove to you that there are some spikes in bood concetration and the more often you inject, the more these spikes can be reduced.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

IG-- "deconate peaking in 5 days"

Well, there you go.. That's one factor or variable that we can't account for-- biological availability.... And how can we?? Find some willing BBers to let us take their blood samples 2 or 3 times a day?

The point is, with ANY injectable, it hits a PEAK blood cocnetration early.. then deminishes from there.. The graph looks like a cliff that sloaps downward.. Whether this peak happens in 1 day or 5 days, it hits a max then returns to baseline from there..

A lot of guys think that the long ester injectable somehow starts off slow for the first week or so and the BAM, peaks out like two weeks later.

Whether it's 5 days, or 1 day. The peak of any injection is seen early. It's a cliff looking graph, not a bell curve.

I might also add, those graphs did show little difference between day one and day 5 with nandrolone.. Meaning, ok, so it doesn't COMPLETELY peak on day one.. but blood levels get pretty high 24 hrs after the injection..

cheers
Andy

 

[The Iron Game]

yes and at one time the theory was the world was flat.

Andy no one is disputing your more frequent injections. People are disputing shooting it every other day and expecting far better than results than every third or fourth day.

The difference is negligible with enanthate/cypionate.

Winstrol is more effect taken 3 or 4 times a day, people take it once a day when injecting and experience some good results, why pin themselves and extra 3 times a day for a possible few more lbs.

Look at tren acetate, half life of 24 hours? so we should inject it 3-4 times a day?

Not practicle bro

 

[serge]

" yes serge that is what im talking about. i take a 5mg d-bol every 4 hours,and take one in the middle of the night. if ur not going to take one durring the night and u go 8 hours w/out a d-bol then u have something wrong with you.cause u aint going to get the whole benifit like u were talking about."

ok, so we are in agreement, but why take dboll if you can just take more test with much less health risks?

 

[Trevdog]

Can we all agree that the more even the blood concentration, the less the sides the greater the results? Can we come to an agreement on that? I mean, you really can't say that injecting 2000mg of enanthate every two weeks is better than 1000mg every week, can you? Then lets take that one step further--- Can we make a generalization that the more you inject, the less the sides? Is there a point of deminishing returns? Absolutely there is!! But that is up the the individual BBer to decide.


All Zyg and I were trying to do was provide you with a visual based on the only semi-solid data we have to go on, the half life. Nobody said it was perfect and nobody said that EVERY person will expirience the same effects. But that doesn't mean that it's trash! What do you have that's better? The highly sophisticated analytical tool of "how you feel?" Give me a break.

Look guys-- Zyg and I are just trying to do you guys a favor.. We already know this shit.. We're trying to help you guys out.. If you don't appreciate the help, fine, fuck you. But do yourself a favor and refrane from replying with something like "everyone is different.." That just shows your ignorance.


When it comes down to injections can we state for a fact that the more often injected, the more stable blood concnetrations? Fuck yes we can.. It just makes sence.. Now, will you grow if you inject at the half life, or twice the half life? Of course you will.. Saying this "theory" is bullshit b/c you took fina E3D and got results is just fucking rediculous.. It says nothing. Bottom line-- inject as often as you want to.. I'm not your mother or your doctor.. I don't give a fuck how many times you inject something. Zyg and I just presented this information to prove to you that there are some spikes in bood concetration and the more often you inject, the more these spikes can be reduced.
Andy

Amen brother. Let me just say that some of us understood exactly what you guys have been doing and its limitations. It irritates me to see people bashing you guys, especially since most of the bashers have nothing remotely persuasive to offer in rebuttal.

Despite the "theorectical" aspects of your posts, they have been invaluable in my opinion. Keep up the good work.

 

[NYStrip]

>Look guys-- Zyg and I are just trying to do you guys a favor.. >We already know this shit.. We're trying to help you guys out.. >If you don't appreciate the help, fine, fuck you.

Andy,

Obviously your contributions to the board are appreciated by everyone. And fine if you're the "minister of chemicals" around here. I'm sure you know more about chemicals than I'll ever know, but one thing that college won't give you is a little tact; that comes with age and experience. If I am wrong about this, please correct me, but I don't recall anybody in this thread saying "fuck you" to you. Just because you know everything about chemistry doesn't mean you get to make anything a personal issue without some one calling you on it. Just chill out and have a Fresca, bro, and let's keep the debate friendly. Us idiots learn more that way.

 

[panerai]

Damn, it does got out of hand!
Sorry, for contributing to it, because, actually, I'm supporting the Andy's and Zyg's theory. I, personally, firmly believe in frequent injections, and I practice it.
Of course, the difference in results and side effects is very small, comparing let's say, 1 amp of Sust ed, 6 days a week, or 3cc of it twice a week.
But, there's a difference, and over the 10-12 weeks cycle, it will result in a couple of lbs of muscles, and less side effects.
The bottom line is: it's a matter of choice, some rather have less holes, some don't mind shooting ed, and want to get maximum benefit out of drugs they use.

Now, Andy, I'm still would like to see, were the idea of 24-hrs release, no matter what ester used, come from?
It has nothing to do with present discussion, but it's very interesting for me.

 

[nautica]

I'm really getting tired of seeing "which test is best..." threads..


Guys-- it's really simple-- All testosterone's are the same..

ALL testosterone injections peak within the first 24 hrs.. The shorter the ester, the higher the initial peak, the more often you need to inject, the more difficult it is to maintain stable blood concentrations. The longer the ester, the shorter the initial peak, the longer it stays in your system.



T-enanthate- Inject EOD for best results
T-propionate- inject ED for best results
T-suspension- inject like a mother fucker for stable blood concentrations.

Sustanon--- this compound can be looked at as if it were a single ester testosterone with a half life of between 4-6 days..

Please take this post into consideration the next time you ask "which test is best." If you are talking about brand names with underdosing taken into consideration, that's one thing...

Andy

So how often should you inject cypionate
Or Testosterona 200
Or Sustanon

I have been injecting 2 times a week

 

[serge]

the graph of cyp and enenth peaks. it shows that the two drugs peak after about 1 days, proving Andy and Zyg right. IF ANYONE HAS ANYTHING TO DISPUTE THIS, THEN FEEL FREE AND SHARE IT WITH ALL OF US.

http://www.anabolicextreme.com/home.htm

 

[serge]

TRY THIS ONE

http://www.anabolicextreme.com/anabolic/archives/anex_archive_issue2_stercycling1.htm

 

[panerai]

Serge...

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content-nw/full/281/1/93/T4
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/vol281/issue1/images/medium/pt0374778002.gif

Those numbers and graphs are from the study the Zyg reffer me to, and those are real deal, the actual blood samples were taken and analyzed, it's not some theoretical assumptions.
As you can see, Decanoate peaks anywere from 2 to 5 days, depending on size of the depot and injection site.
Do you have anything to dispute that?

 

[serge]

"Those numbers and graphs are from the study the Zyg reffer me to, and those are real deal, the actual blood samples were taken and analyzed, it's not some theoretical assumptions.
As you can see, Decanoate peaks anywere from 2 to 5 days, depending on size of the depot and injection site.
Do you have anything to dispute that?"

dude you are comparing apples to oranges, enenthate and cypionate structure wise are much shorter esters then deconoate. So naturally cyp and enenth would peak much sooner and have shorter half lives then deconoate.

Oh yeah, i case you have not read my post carefully, i am in agreement with zyg and Andy

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I do not intend to venture into this fray at this time....

however.... I must point out that.....The volume(important) and type of oil(less) important injected as well as the site used(important) will have a CONSIDERABLE effect on the release.


btw- there are lots of other individual factors but the above will have general applicability.

 

[panerai]

I do not intend to venture into this fray at this time....

however.... I must point out that.....The volume(important) and type of oil(less) important injected as well as the site used(important) will have a CONSIDERABLE effect on the release.


btw- there are lots of other individual factors but the above will have general applicability.

Exactly, so were this 24 hours number came from?
Even Decanoate peak release varies from 2 to 5 days, so how can one say that all the brands of Testosteron will peak within first 24 hours, no matter, what ester it is?
Serge, we both are on Andy's side, but we got off topic and talking about something else here, about one detail, which, dosn't approve or disapprove his theory.
Still, I would like to find out, if it is true, because, I think, it is important.

 

[jboldman]

hey andy, nice to see you

I just stopped by to check things out. Looks like you are well into that tren cycle eh! <GRIN> This is a battle that has been fought on many fronts and you will never convince those folks who read somewhere that test enanthate has a half life of two weeks that they should inject more often than once a week!

 

[Molle_23]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
macrophage69alpha

"however.... I must point out that.....The volume(important) and type of oil(less) important injected as well as the site used(important) will have a CONSIDERABLE effect on the release".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, what is the best sites to inject in you opinion? Ass/calves???

Molle

 

[maxes21]

Wow... This thread has totally gotten out of hand..
Man, you guys sure cannot appreciate theory.. And please don't compare "theory" to "real world results" unless you plan on having you blood tested daily. "I gained 30 lbs from injecting sustanon once a week" doesn't mean shit.
------------------
yes it dose mean shit it meant that, somone gained and enormous ammout of muscle on a cycle that was not based on your theory.
------------------------
Can we all agree that the more even the blood concentration, the less the sides the greater the results? Can we come to an agreement on that? I mean, you really can't say that injecting 2000mg of enanthate every two weeks is better than 1000mg every week, can you? Then lets take that one step further--- Can we make a generalization that the more you inject, the less the sides? Is there a point of deminishing returns? Absolutely there is!! But that is up the the individual BBer to decide.
Andy

ok now i see we are getting into the 1-2gram test a week. wow u sure are getting the whole benifit of the prop in those dosages. now i can see your theory comeing in to effect at theses heavy dosags. where u could keep a more cosistan level of test in your system, instead of doing twice a week injections. now i dont know anyone cycleing at these dosages, but if you are you must be one fucking big mofo,and should not have a problem with posting your pic and shareing your results. i would like to see what somone looks like cycleing at these dosages,cause you must atleast weigh 225lbs , and if you dont i think you have made the wrong decision's in cycleing. im not saying i wont ever reach this doseage but if i do it will be over a 10 year piriod. again i would like you 1-2gram a week cyclers to post your pics. to prove that the 1-2gram a week has made u a moster, cause if you are not that is the funnist shit i have ever heard of doing. more dose not always mean better gains, and for u 1-2gram a week bro's i wish you alll my luck in living a very healthy lifstyle in the future.

 

[serge]

"Exactly, so were this 24 hours number came from?
Even Decanoate peak release varies from 2 to 5 days, so how can one say that all the brands of Testosteron will peak within first 24 hours, no matter, what ester it is?
Serge, we both are on Andy's side, but we got off topic and talking about something else here, about one detail, which, dosn't approve or disapprove his theory.
Still, I would like to find out, if it is true, because, I think, it is important"

ok, once again you are not reading my post carefully, i did not say all esters peak after 24hours, i said cyp and enenthate do. prop and suspension will peak much sooner, phenyl-prop will peak later. And the link that i have posted did come from scientific data and is not theoretical.

 

[serge]

Deconate is a much longer ester then cypionate and enenthate, so it realeases slower, peaking later then cyp and enenthate.

 

[The Iron Game]

do you guys own shares in a pin selling company?

 

[serge]

"ok now i see we are getting into the 1-2gram test a week. wow u sure are getting the whole benifit of the prop in those dosages. now i can see your theory comeing in to effect at theses heavy dosags. where u could keep a more cosistan level of test in your system, instead of doing twice a week injections. now i dont know anyone cycleing at these dosages, but if you are you must be one fucking big mofo,and should not have a problem with posting your pic and shareing your results. i would like to see what somone looks like cycleing at these dosages,cause you must atleast weigh 225lbs , and if you dont i think you have made the wrong decision's in cycleing. im not saying i wont ever reach this doseage but if i do it will be over a 10 year piriod. again i would like you 1-2gram a week cyclers to post your pics. to prove that the 1-2gram a week has made u a moster, cause if you are not that is the funnist shit i have ever heard of doing. more dose not always mean better gains, and for u 1-2gram a week bro's i wish you alll my luck in living a very healthy lifstyle in the future."

1-2grams of test a week, "more dose not always mean better gains". You could not be more wrong by making that statement. While it is true that to fully saturate you receptors a dose of 500mg/test/week is sufficient, once you go into 1000mg/week range you get the benefits of testosterones anti-catabolic/thermogenic properties.

In another words, 1000mg/week of test is not a massive dose, but simply is the dose needed to produce solid (not water bloat infested body) gains.

 

[The Iron Game]

Just buy some propionate, fina, winstrol and inject it 5 times a day for peak and more consistent blood levels.



no shit injecting enanthate every other day works, does it add an extra lb of muscle over injecting it every fourth day?

this is an old debate and still people insist on arguing.

and you, im suprised at you, everytime someone disagrees with you, flames begin.

 

[maxes21]

, "more dose not always mean better gains". You could not be more wrong by making that statement.

ok i knew someone was going to say something about this, even i know it is not totaly tru. but how much more of a anti-catabolic/thermogenic properties can u have using 1 gram a week comaired to 500mg? i hear lot of people saying that your not ging to expirence more gains using 800mg of eq then 600mg. or useing 80mg of d-bol then useing 40mg. there is just a point when a cirtain drug can have it effect in the human body. am i tru?
ok and i dont really think that 1000mg a week of test is that much but it sure dose seem like it, and if it isnt then why arent more people doign this, to get the optimalanti-catabolic/thermogenic properties? so u see it is considered close to alot. again if u know someone one that uses these dosages, tell them to post there pick so that they can prove that it is so much better, and that it is wise to use this kind of dosage. cause anyone useing this kind of dosage has to be a big mofo and better be a big mofo,cause there is not may reasons to go to this high of a dosage and no need to,unless u have at the least 12 cycles under your belt. and im not includeing the pro bodybuilder that do need this kind of dosage cause there isnt more then 100 people on here that compete professionaly. i have seen a few but not many.

 

[Zyglamail]

do you guys own shares in a pin selling company?

haha, good one TIG

WOW, this thing really grew while I was out for the day, E2 as usuall, putting me down when he has a chance, but thats ok, I expect it from many.

One of the questions I see asked a lot is "where is the proof blood levels peak after in 24 hours". As stated before(OK, call this a backpedal since E2 apparently expects this from me) the data in the charts was only using a pure half life formula. Thats all it took into account and none of the other variables such as inj volume, inj location or AAS concentration. Without those variables, the math shows a peak within 24 hours. Thats all, I dont believe it was ever said that these graphs and numbers were all encompassing, just a simple visual tool to help get a point across expressing one small protion of the big picture, yet everyone seems to poke thier fingers in the holes that we allready admit existed. Why is it that people simply attack flaws that are admittedly there? Unfortunatly in topics this large it is easy for people to miss posts stating these shortcomming and they immediatly assume the charts were an all encompasing 100% truth and jump on the case of the poster....oh well, what can ya do.

Exactly, so were this 24 hours number came from? Even Decanoate peak release varies from 2 to 5 days, so how can one say that all the brands of Testosteron will peak within first 24 hours, no matter, what ester it is?

panerai, as I mentioned a couple times in this thread, the highest release rate demonstrated comes from the half life math only and does not take into account the other factors that delay release such as inj volume, location, AAS concenration etc etc etc. I knew the link to the study I posted showed differently(notice even in the study, things like inj vilume and location effected peak), but at the same time, I figured it was clear that the charts only represented the pure half life without taking other variables into account. Anyways, we had a couple exchanges in this thread that I think were incorrecty inturpreted by both sides. I meant no offense, hope there is no hard feelings.

 

[Trevdog]

Can we get the real m0f0's input on this?

 

[Andy13]

ok now i see we are getting into the 1-2gram test a week. wow u sure are getting the whole benifit of the prop in those dosages. now i can see your theory comeing in to effect at theses heavy dosags. where u could keep a more cosistan level of test in your system, instead of doing twice a week injections. now i dont know anyone cycleing at these dosages, but if you are you must be one fucking big mofo,and should not have a problem with posting your pic and shareing your results. i would like to see what somone looks like cycleing at these dosages,cause you must atleast weigh 225lbs , and if you dont i think you have made the wrong decision's in cycleing. im not saying i wont ever reach this doseage but if i do it will be over a 10 year piriod. again i would like you 1-2gram a week cyclers to post your pics. to prove that the 1-2gram a week has made u a moster, cause if you are not that is the funnist shit i have ever heard of doing. more dose not always mean better gains, and for u 1-2gram a week bro's i wish you alll my luck in living a very healthy lifstyle in the future.

Jesus H Christ.. 2000mg over two weeks (or whatever) was just a fucking example!! Get a clue!!

However it makes no difference what mg amount you are using.. The lower amout will have the same % deviations from the mean blood androgen concentrations although the actual numerical deviations would be less..

Still, it was a god damn example!


And IG-- once again, I'm not your mother.. You can inject as often as you like I couldn't care less.

It's really simple.. The more frequent injections, the more stable blood concentrations.. How many injections is too many injections?? That is for you to decide..


Im not telling anybody how often to inject.. I'm just providing some information on injection frequency.. Please.. Why should I give a fuck how many times you inject?


Andy

 

[TxLonghorn]

Cool, now that we have settled on the fact that test enanthate is the strongest and most effective test you can use, let's tackle which test is the second best. I say either cypionate or sust. I think somebody should make this a poll to get a better response.

 

[Zyglamail]

Cool, now that we have settled on the fact that test enanthate is the strongest and most effective test you can use, let's tackle which test is the second best. I say either cypionate or sust. I think somebody should make this a poll to get a better response.

hehe Tx, actually the shortest estered test will, going by half life only mind you, not only peak blood levels sooner, but higher as well. So wouldnt that make prop or suspension the best?

 

[Terry]

good info

 

[Daeo]

Mother of pearl!

We're thinking into this WAY too much. Why worry about possible sides with arimidex, proscar, novladex, etc? At higher doses of test I really don't see anyone avoiding sides just by injecting ED/EOD. So what's the point? I'd prefer not to be a human pin cushion and develop scar tissue sooner over a few lbs of muscle...

 

[RLARG]

Which test is the best

Just good old hands on experience is it.whatever works for you. Alittle of Prop and Ethanate is great. I like Prop(150mg) and EQ(100mg) EOD and Ethanate(700mg) every 5 days.

 

[Zyglamail]

I'd prefer not to be a human pin cushion and develop scar tissue sooner over a few lbs of muscle...

Thats the beauty of it, these are just ideas to eek the most of the AAS, its not written in stone and everyone can shoot how ever they want

 

[The Iron Game]

Andy & im sure all the newbies could give for your injecting enanthate every other day theory....later

 

[panerai]

Can we get the real m0f0's input on this?

LMAO!!! That's the good one!

 

[panerai]

Zyg, it was missunderstanding on my part. Sorry, for harsh reply!

 

[The Iron Game]

Cool, now that we have settled on the fact that test enanthate is the strongest and most effective test you can use, let's tackle which test is the second best. I say either cypionate or sust. I think somebody should make this a poll to get a better response.

these two are interchangeable, they are the same difference. the major difference being the quality of the product. enanthate and cypionate 'graph' levels would be the same. difference is less than neglgible

 

[serge]

Yet another post that spun out of control.

Ok now its time for the Deca or Test debate.

 

[Ulter]

panerai is this conjecture or do you have a study showing that injections E3D will yield a 2 pound increase in muscle over a ten week period over E6D? Is there any proof that more frequent injections yield better results anywhere?


WWW.ANABOLICFITNESS.NET

 

[Zyglamail]

panerai is this conjecture or do you have a study showing that injections E3D will yield a 2 pound increase in muscle over a ten week period over E6D? Is there any proof that more frequent injections yield better results anywhere?

I have yet to stumble across any studies whose sole purpose was to measure quantitivly the results by more frequent inj of AAS. As mentioned over and over though, we are applying the theory that has proven benefits for other medications. Its simply a correlation and the evedince that is trickling in is starting to support the theory. After all, look at all the people who report better gains by doing fina ed as opposed to eod. Many say 20% better results, not if that applies to a short half life ester, why cant it apply to a longer half life ester?

What we need to do now is our own study and get a bunch of guys to just run a test cycle or something and get half to run e6d and the others to run eod and even some to run ed and see what kind of results we get.

 

[serge]

"What we need to do now is our own study and get a bunch of guys to just run a test cycle or something and get half to run e6d and the others to run eod and even some to run ed and see what kind of results we get."

i would take this a step further, and have the same people run test cycle doing shots E6D, then another cycle doing shots EOD. Then compare. Afterall we all know how much cycle results vary from one person to another.

 

[badazzwhitedude]

What we need to do now is our own study and get a bunch of guys to just run a test cycle or something and get half to run e6d and the others to run eod and even some to run ed and see what kind of results we get.

:::raises hand::: I'll be a test subject. Send me the gear and I'll do it. So when do we start?

 

[panerai]

No, no study. It's just my personal opinion.

 

[Zyglamail]

i would take this a step further, and have the same people run test cycle doing shots E6D, then another cycle doing shots EOD. Then compare. Afterall we all know how much cycle results vary from one person to another.

If we followed this route however, the nay sayers...and there are always some would say that the second cycle the person had more mass and therefor needed more gear, or didnt follow the same diet, blah blah blah.....you get the point.

 

[chesty]

Being a scientist and an engineer, I read your studies, and looked at your graphs sometime ago.

There are some things wrong.

you do not state the assumptions
you do not state the limitations
what type of theory are you basing this on


There was a report put out quite sometime ago, by Macrophagealpha (I believe) and then reprinted by George that explained exactly what an ester was and how it worked. Seemed to me to be different than what I have read here lately if my memory serves me.

Also, what real world experience do you have? Have you experimented on yourself with this theory?

I have always injected my test be it sust or enanthate or cyp three days a week with great results. Of course my doses are around 1250 mg, but that works for me.

I need to point out that theory (especially hypothetical theory) can be dangerous or at the least inneffective or painfull without real world facts to back it up. Especially when it comes to the human body and a beginner who reads these threads and doesn't know any better.

Now I am not saying that what you hypothesize is wrong, you have just not proven your theory and most evidence and real world experience I have seen would say other wise.

My 0.01 cents.

 

[Andy13]

Being a scientist and an engineer, I read your studies, and looked at your graphs sometime ago.

There are some things wrong.

you do not state the assumptions
you do not state the limitations
what type of theory are you basing this on


There was a report put out quite sometime ago, by Macrophagealpha (I believe) and then reprinted by George that explained exactly what an ester was and how it worked. Seemed to me to be different than what I have read here lately if my memory serves me.

Also, what real world experience do you have? Have you experimented on yourself with this theory?

I have always injected my test be it sust or enanthate or cyp three days a week with great results. Of course my doses are around 1250 mg, but that works for me.

I need to point out that theory (especially hypothetical theory) can be dangerous or at the least inneffective or painfull without real world facts to back it up. Especially when it comes to the human body and a beginner who reads these threads and doesn't know any better.

Now I am not saying that what you hypothesize is wrong, you have just not proven your theory and most evidence and real world experience I have seen would say other wise.

My 0.01 cents.

Oh, you're an engineer? Fantastic... Then certainly you have taken diff equ's? Right?

The half life graphs are the most (and only) valid representation we have to go on..

they are THE-OR-ET-ICAL graphs based on the expoential half life theory.

k*e^(ln(1/2)x/h)


Did you think we were just pulling these numbers out of a hat?

 

[Andy13]

Please... Zyg and I cetainly know how an ester works.