Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below perfectspecimen
New member
anyone know where to get this stuff. i know its legal but cant find anyone selling it for a decent price. help please
injectable atp is legal, where to get it?
- Thread starter perfectspecimen
- Start date
J
johnboy
Guest
don't know where to get injectable
but if you find out let me know.
but if you find out let me know.
perfectspecimen said:
You're absolutely right, it is legal and sells under the names Dynacleine, Enerzyme or AMP 5. I did a search on Google, and a vet store on Yahoo (Yahoo! Shopping site) sells Dynacleine and Enerzyme. They describe the drugs as used to counter fatigue and muscle cramp prevention.
I really don't know much about these drugs and how they are used. I wouldn't touch them unless I had good information as to appropriate dosage, side effects etc.
Interestingly, I found one site on the web that says the following: "Thus creatine acts as part of the high-energy reserve that is required for rapid and sustained muscle contraction. Injections of PHOSPHATE (COFORTA) will increase production of ATP, while injections of ADENOSINE TRIPHOSPHATE (DYNACLEINE) will directly increase high-energy reserves."
Here's the link to the store that sells this stuff (NOT a source, this is LEGAL!!!) (pretty darn cheap too
):http://shop.store.yahoo.com/expressvet/3013.html (Dynacleine)
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/expressvet/3015.html (Enerzyme)
Here's an equine products store that sells AMP 5:
http://www.equineworld.net/vendor/CondellParkPriceList.html
If anyone has more info about this please post it (like any info from Medline etc.)! My curiosity has been piqued.
Last edited:
Intramuscular
New member
Mythos, you're fucken awesome. I'm gonna have to hit you with some karma for doing all those searches.
sicklydiesel
New member
bump!!!..i'd like to know what benefits this stuff could have
Intramuscular
New member
I "assume" that because it goes directly to the blood stream, it's more absorbable than ingestible creatine. However, this is based on absolutely no research and little knowledge of these products so I'll bump it for more info. Might be useful for all you whimpy anavar people... hehe.
(ATP), organic compound composed of adenine, the sugar ribose, and three phosphate
groups. ATP serves as the major energy source within the cell to drive a number of biological processes such as
photosynthesis, muscle contraction, and the synthesis of proteins. It is broken down by hydrolysis to yield adenosine
diphosphate (ADP), inorganic phosphorus, and energy. ADP can be further broken down to yield adenosine
monophosphate (AMP), additional phosphorus, and more energy. When the phosphorus and energy are immediately used
to drive other reactions, such as the synthesis of uridine diphosphate (UDP), an RNA precursor, from uridine
monophosphate (UMP), the pair of reactions are said to be coupled. New ATP is produced from AMP using the energy
released from the breakdown of fuel molecules, such as fats and sugars.
1
Extracellularly, ATP has been found to act as a neurotransmitter. ATP receptors are widespread through the body. On its
own it is known to have effects in the arteries, intestines, lungs, and bladder. It is also often released in tandem with other
neurotransmitters, perhaps to add chemical stability
groups. ATP serves as the major energy source within the cell to drive a number of biological processes such as
photosynthesis, muscle contraction, and the synthesis of proteins. It is broken down by hydrolysis to yield adenosine
diphosphate (ADP), inorganic phosphorus, and energy. ADP can be further broken down to yield adenosine
monophosphate (AMP), additional phosphorus, and more energy. When the phosphorus and energy are immediately used
to drive other reactions, such as the synthesis of uridine diphosphate (UDP), an RNA precursor, from uridine
monophosphate (UMP), the pair of reactions are said to be coupled. New ATP is produced from AMP using the energy
released from the breakdown of fuel molecules, such as fats and sugars.
1
Extracellularly, ATP has been found to act as a neurotransmitter. ATP receptors are widespread through the body. On its
own it is known to have effects in the arteries, intestines, lungs, and bladder. It is also often released in tandem with other
neurotransmitters, perhaps to add chemical stability
Intramuscular
New member
Yeah we all know about what ATP,ADP, and AMP are. And we all know how they assist in muscle contraction. We also know that if these horse products are pure ATP, then they will also work in humans because it's the same exact molecule. The real question is: Will an injectable version have a higher absorption rate, by the individual cells, than oral phosphate sources?
Bump
Bump
You gotta love Google!
Adenosine Triphosphate, the energy of life
by Robert Mason Ph.D
Adenosine Triphosphate (pronounced A-den-o-seen Try-foss-fate) or ATP represents the universal
energy molecule. In a very real sense ATP is the power behind life. ATP is a nucleotide consisting of adenine, ribose, and a phosphate unit. It is the principal carrier of energy for all forms of life. ATP isestimated to provide 95% for all cellular energy throughout the body.
The Power behind Life
In essence, energy arrives from the Sun, but humans are unable to convert it directly to run metabolic processes. Therefore, we depend on photosynthesis to convert solar energy into chemical storage (in the form of carbohydrate). Through catabolic metabolism, carbohydrate is converted into the energy of ATP.
Nobel Prize
The importance of the role of ATP cannot be overstated. Perhaps that’s one of the reasons why in1997 the Nobel Prize for chemistry was awarded to; Dr. John Walker of the Laboratory of Molecular Biology, Cambridge, Dr. Paul Boyer of the University of California, Los Angeles and Dr. Jens Skou ofthe Aarhus University, Denmark for their detailed work on how ATP shuttles energy.
ATP and the Mitochondria
ATP is created inside cells called mitochondria. The mitochondria can be found in every cell of every organ, but they are perhaps “hardest at work” inside the brain. This isn’t a surprise considering that the brain utilizes approximately 20% of the body’s oxygen and 50% of the sugars we ingest in its ever constant demand for energy.
The Dangers of ATP
Production Problems
The brain is unable to store ATP and the mitochondria are unable to “share” ATP from other organs mitochondria. It is estimated that the demands for a resting human are 40Kg (88 Lbs.) of ATP per 24-hours! During strenuous activity this demand increases to 500g (1.1 Lbs.) per minute!
Yet while ATP serves as the energy current for all cells, its quantity is very limited. In fact, only about 70mg of ATP is stored in the body at any one time! Therefore, during strenuous activity, such as sprinting, ATP supplies would last for no more than 5 to 8 seconds! It becomes immediately apparent that ATP must be constantly and effectively synthesized to provide a continuous supply of energy. When an interruption of the energy producing substances (such as oxygen or blood carrying nutrients) occurs, (e.g. heart attack or stroke) that as the production of ATP
is effected a cascade of free-radical damage begins.
Recent research indicates that it may be an ATP-imbalance, (the result of damage to the neuronal
support [glial] cells, or to the mitochondria
themselves under ischemic and hypoxic conditions such as those mentioned above) that leads to increased neuronal cell death. However, even “minor” oxygen and blood starvation events, such as those that may not appear serious but may be attributed to an aging condition, could lead directly to temporally lobe epilepsy (a mild form of epilepsy).
Furthermore, we can consider that such events also have a consequence for the onset of multiple sclerosis itself.
ATP and Disorders
Around the world ATP supplements have been and are being used in all the following conditions:
1. Acrocyanosis: (Discoloration of hands and feet due to poor circulation).
2. Acroparaesthesiae: (Tingling in hands and feet).
3. Asthma: (In general).
4. Back Pain: (Particularly mild lower back pain).
5. Cardiology: (Spasms related to the coronary arteries and thrombosis of peripheral vessels.
And as a preventative for potential heart attack).
6. Chronic Asthenia: (Accompanied or not by low blood pressure, genital and senile asthenia,
stress).
7. Circulatory Alterations: (In general).
8. Convalescence: (Following operations and of seriously ill patients).
9. Dermatology: (Atopic dermatitis, chronic and acute eczema).
10. Diabetes: (As a coadjutant in the treatment of diabetic arteriopathies).
11. Ear Problems: (Ménière's Disease, Tinnitus [ringing in the ears], deafness due to nerves,
deafness due to streptomycin).
12. Endocrinology: (In general).
13. Geriatrics: (Improve well being and energy).
14. Gynecology: (Particularly alterations due to spasms of the uterine muscle).
15. Itching: (In general).
16. Neurology: (As a coadjutant in the treatment of extended sclerosis and other neurological
lesions and related to muscular dystrophy’s).
17. Nutrition: (In general).
18. Ophthalmology: (Strained eyesight).
19. Poisoning: (In general).
20. Raynaud's Disease: (Blanching of the fingers and toes).
21. Rheumatism: (In general).
22. Sports Medicine: (Training, physical strain, fatigue of all kinds).
23. Surgery: (Prior to and following surgery to prevent anoxia).
ATP and Aging
The body’s ATP production declines as we age. the size, volume, and number of the mitochondria
alter during age. As the mitochondria produce ATP, an abundance of free radicals are generated. Free radicals over a life-time damage cellular components which of course leads to decreased efficiency.
Conclusion
Whilst the authors could find no clinical studies to support ATP supplementation and aging, there is
no doubt that ATP is a vital component of life.
It appears to be a logical step that ATP supplementation can aid and assist in improving energylevels and help support conditions such as chronic fatigue, multiple sclerosis and similar disorders where neuronal glial cells and mitochondria are especially at-risk.
We’ve heard from a number of patients and health professionals that sublingual or injectable ATP
supplementation can be highly beneficial for those who feel permanently weak, tired, or lack energy
(i.e. chronic fatigue).
Dosages, Side Effects and Contraindications
It is noted that patients with either pulmonary hypertension or myocardial infarction should not use ATP if the disease is in its acute phase. ATP appears to be a very safe and satisfactory supplement. Whilst dosages have to be altered according to the age and condition of the patient and the desired result, it is generally considered that the following dosages are effective in 90% of cases: By injection: 2-4 c.c. daily by deep intramuscular injection (or by intravenous injection when dissolved in a glucose serum).
By sublingual absorption (under the tongue): 30mg to 90mg per day taken in three divided doses
(i.e. 10-30mg three times per day). It is important to ensure that the product is absorbed through the
mouth membranes and not swallowed.
References
1.Cotrina ML, Lin JH, Lopez-Garcia JC, Naus CC, Nedergaard M, ATP mediated glialsignaling, Journal Neurosci. 2000 Apr. 15;20(8): 2835-44.
2.Kunz WS, Kudin AP, Vielhaber S, Blumcke I, Zuschratter W, Scramm J, Beck H, Elger CE, Mitochondrial complex I deficiency in the epileptic focus of patients with temporal lobe epilepsy, Ann. Neurosci. 2000 Nov; 48(5) 766-73.
3.Verweij BH, Muizelaar JP, Vinas FC, Peterson PL, Xiong Y, Lee CP, Impaired cerebral mitochondrial function after traumatic brain injury in humans, J. Neurosurg. 2000 Nov; 93(5): 815-20. 4.Anderson E, You scratch my back and I will synthesize adenosine triphosphate by means of oxidative phosphorylation.
5.Adenosine Triphosphate, Microsoft Encarta Online Encyclopedia, 2000.
6.Atepodin, manufacturers insert 1999.
7.Chemistry in Britain, November 1999.
8.Database of the Swedish Academy of Sciences, Stockholm.
9.Database of the Oxford University, England.
10.Skou J, Aarhus University, Denmark.
11.Walker J, Laboratory of Molecular Biology, Medical Research Council, Cambridge, England.
12.Boyer P, University of California, Los Angeles, USA.
Adenosine Triphosphate, the energy of life
by Robert Mason Ph.D
Adenosine Triphosphate (pronounced A-den-o-seen Try-foss-fate) or ATP represents the universal
energy molecule. In a very real sense ATP is the power behind life. ATP is a nucleotide consisting of adenine, ribose, and a phosphate unit. It is the principal carrier of energy for all forms of life. ATP isestimated to provide 95% for all cellular energy throughout the body.
The Power behind Life
In essence, energy arrives from the Sun, but humans are unable to convert it directly to run metabolic processes. Therefore, we depend on photosynthesis to convert solar energy into chemical storage (in the form of carbohydrate). Through catabolic metabolism, carbohydrate is converted into the energy of ATP.
Nobel Prize
The importance of the role of ATP cannot be overstated. Perhaps that’s one of the reasons why in1997 the Nobel Prize for chemistry was awarded to; Dr. John Walker of the Laboratory of Molecular Biology, Cambridge, Dr. Paul Boyer of the University of California, Los Angeles and Dr. Jens Skou ofthe Aarhus University, Denmark for their detailed work on how ATP shuttles energy.
ATP and the Mitochondria
ATP is created inside cells called mitochondria. The mitochondria can be found in every cell of every organ, but they are perhaps “hardest at work” inside the brain. This isn’t a surprise considering that the brain utilizes approximately 20% of the body’s oxygen and 50% of the sugars we ingest in its ever constant demand for energy.
The Dangers of ATP
Production Problems
The brain is unable to store ATP and the mitochondria are unable to “share” ATP from other organs mitochondria. It is estimated that the demands for a resting human are 40Kg (88 Lbs.) of ATP per 24-hours! During strenuous activity this demand increases to 500g (1.1 Lbs.) per minute!
Yet while ATP serves as the energy current for all cells, its quantity is very limited. In fact, only about 70mg of ATP is stored in the body at any one time! Therefore, during strenuous activity, such as sprinting, ATP supplies would last for no more than 5 to 8 seconds! It becomes immediately apparent that ATP must be constantly and effectively synthesized to provide a continuous supply of energy. When an interruption of the energy producing substances (such as oxygen or blood carrying nutrients) occurs, (e.g. heart attack or stroke) that as the production of ATP
is effected a cascade of free-radical damage begins.
Recent research indicates that it may be an ATP-imbalance, (the result of damage to the neuronal
support [glial] cells, or to the mitochondria
themselves under ischemic and hypoxic conditions such as those mentioned above) that leads to increased neuronal cell death. However, even “minor” oxygen and blood starvation events, such as those that may not appear serious but may be attributed to an aging condition, could lead directly to temporally lobe epilepsy (a mild form of epilepsy).
Furthermore, we can consider that such events also have a consequence for the onset of multiple sclerosis itself.
ATP and Disorders
Around the world ATP supplements have been and are being used in all the following conditions:
1. Acrocyanosis: (Discoloration of hands and feet due to poor circulation).
2. Acroparaesthesiae: (Tingling in hands and feet).
3. Asthma: (In general).
4. Back Pain: (Particularly mild lower back pain).
5. Cardiology: (Spasms related to the coronary arteries and thrombosis of peripheral vessels.
And as a preventative for potential heart attack).
6. Chronic Asthenia: (Accompanied or not by low blood pressure, genital and senile asthenia,
stress).
7. Circulatory Alterations: (In general).
8. Convalescence: (Following operations and of seriously ill patients).
9. Dermatology: (Atopic dermatitis, chronic and acute eczema).
10. Diabetes: (As a coadjutant in the treatment of diabetic arteriopathies).
11. Ear Problems: (Ménière's Disease, Tinnitus [ringing in the ears], deafness due to nerves,
deafness due to streptomycin).
12. Endocrinology: (In general).
13. Geriatrics: (Improve well being and energy).
14. Gynecology: (Particularly alterations due to spasms of the uterine muscle).
15. Itching: (In general).
16. Neurology: (As a coadjutant in the treatment of extended sclerosis and other neurological
lesions and related to muscular dystrophy’s).
17. Nutrition: (In general).
18. Ophthalmology: (Strained eyesight).
19. Poisoning: (In general).
20. Raynaud's Disease: (Blanching of the fingers and toes).
21. Rheumatism: (In general).
22. Sports Medicine: (Training, physical strain, fatigue of all kinds).
23. Surgery: (Prior to and following surgery to prevent anoxia).
ATP and Aging
The body’s ATP production declines as we age. the size, volume, and number of the mitochondria
alter during age. As the mitochondria produce ATP, an abundance of free radicals are generated. Free radicals over a life-time damage cellular components which of course leads to decreased efficiency.
Conclusion
Whilst the authors could find no clinical studies to support ATP supplementation and aging, there is
no doubt that ATP is a vital component of life.
It appears to be a logical step that ATP supplementation can aid and assist in improving energylevels and help support conditions such as chronic fatigue, multiple sclerosis and similar disorders where neuronal glial cells and mitochondria are especially at-risk.
We’ve heard from a number of patients and health professionals that sublingual or injectable ATP
supplementation can be highly beneficial for those who feel permanently weak, tired, or lack energy
(i.e. chronic fatigue).
Dosages, Side Effects and Contraindications
It is noted that patients with either pulmonary hypertension or myocardial infarction should not use ATP if the disease is in its acute phase. ATP appears to be a very safe and satisfactory supplement. Whilst dosages have to be altered according to the age and condition of the patient and the desired result, it is generally considered that the following dosages are effective in 90% of cases: By injection: 2-4 c.c. daily by deep intramuscular injection (or by intravenous injection when dissolved in a glucose serum).
By sublingual absorption (under the tongue): 30mg to 90mg per day taken in three divided doses
(i.e. 10-30mg three times per day). It is important to ensure that the product is absorbed through the
mouth membranes and not swallowed.
References
1.Cotrina ML, Lin JH, Lopez-Garcia JC, Naus CC, Nedergaard M, ATP mediated glialsignaling, Journal Neurosci. 2000 Apr. 15;20(8): 2835-44.
2.Kunz WS, Kudin AP, Vielhaber S, Blumcke I, Zuschratter W, Scramm J, Beck H, Elger CE, Mitochondrial complex I deficiency in the epileptic focus of patients with temporal lobe epilepsy, Ann. Neurosci. 2000 Nov; 48(5) 766-73.
3.Verweij BH, Muizelaar JP, Vinas FC, Peterson PL, Xiong Y, Lee CP, Impaired cerebral mitochondrial function after traumatic brain injury in humans, J. Neurosurg. 2000 Nov; 93(5): 815-20. 4.Anderson E, You scratch my back and I will synthesize adenosine triphosphate by means of oxidative phosphorylation.
5.Adenosine Triphosphate, Microsoft Encarta Online Encyclopedia, 2000.
6.Atepodin, manufacturers insert 1999.
7.Chemistry in Britain, November 1999.
8.Database of the Swedish Academy of Sciences, Stockholm.
9.Database of the Oxford University, England.
10.Skou J, Aarhus University, Denmark.
11.Walker J, Laboratory of Molecular Biology, Medical Research Council, Cambridge, England.
12.Boyer P, University of California, Los Angeles, USA.
What about this stuff?
on the same site there was some other stuff of interest.
Enerselen
Contains ATP, heptaminol, uridine triphosphate and other cofactors. Has a heart stimulant effect and increased biological energy availability action. Valuable in the treatment of muscular weakness and tying up.
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/expressvet/3014.html
Seems to have a few inggredients in common with the kynoselen.
Anyone with more info on how to use these drugs?
Mythos you are the Man!! Thanks for finding this stuff for us!
on the same site there was some other stuff of interest.
Enerselen
Contains ATP, heptaminol, uridine triphosphate and other cofactors. Has a heart stimulant effect and increased biological energy availability action. Valuable in the treatment of muscular weakness and tying up.
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/expressvet/3014.html
Seems to have a few inggredients in common with the kynoselen.
Anyone with more info on how to use these drugs?
Mythos you are the Man!! Thanks for finding this stuff for us!
J
johnboy
Guest
what is a good dose ?
anybody know the dosage to inject ?
anybody know the dosage to inject ?
here is the human ATP
hey guys - International Antiaging Systems has a human form of ATP subling tablets and there cheap too (120 10mg for $55)
They are phasing that out and replacing them with Bio-Pro, which is a subling spray.
Here's what they say:
Bio-Pro spray is ATP combined with NADH. This product offers exc. value compared to the tabs and being subling it has exc. absorption properties. It is both rapidly and well absorbed in the bloodstream. The combination of 2mg of ATP and 2mg of NADH in each spray makes Bio-Pro one of the best brain energy products currently available.
I think i have chronic fatigue syndrom - anyone think this or any of those other ATP products from those vets above would work for me being tired all the time?
thanks guys,
P.S. who can i mail for a source check? i am in canada
bionicbub
hey guys - International Antiaging Systems has a human form of ATP subling tablets and there cheap too (120 10mg for $55)
They are phasing that out and replacing them with Bio-Pro, which is a subling spray.
Here's what they say:
Bio-Pro spray is ATP combined with NADH. This product offers exc. value compared to the tabs and being subling it has exc. absorption properties. It is both rapidly and well absorbed in the bloodstream. The combination of 2mg of ATP and 2mg of NADH in each spray makes Bio-Pro one of the best brain energy products currently available.
I think i have chronic fatigue syndrom - anyone think this or any of those other ATP products from those vets above would work for me being tired all the time?
thanks guys,
P.S. who can i mail for a source check? i am in canada
bionicbub
J
johnboy
Guest
Re: here is the human ATP
bionicbub said:hey guys - International Antiaging Systems has a human form of ATP subling tablets and there cheap too (120 10mg for $55)
They are phasing that out and replacing them with Bio-Pro, which is a subling spray.
Here's what they say:
Bio-Pro spray is ATP combined with NADH. This product offers exc. value compared to the tabs and being subling it has exc. absorption properties. It is both rapidly and well absorbed in the bloodstream. The combination of 2mg of ATP and 2mg of NADH in each spray makes Bio-Pro one of the best brain energy products currently available.
I think i have chronic fatigue syndrom - anyone think this or any of those other ATP products from those vets above would work for me being tired all the time?
I have tried them and I wasn't impressed. I think injectable would be much better but I haven't tried it YET
thanks guys,
P.S. who can i mail for a source check? i am in canada
bionicbub
-{ GODZILLABOL }-
New member
Bump for some info!
Anybody ever try this? I think it would give a good boost of energy!
Anybody ever try this? I think it would give a good boost of energy!
H
HighIntensity
Guest
I don't mean to piss on anyone's parade, but I use ATP almost everyday in my lab (for PCR reactions, etc). One thing I know for sure is that it is NOT heat stable. It's half-life in the body is very, very short--milliseconds to seconds. It must always be kept on ice, and even then it's not good after a couple of months.
Honestly I can't see ATP first--surviving room temp for more than a couple of minutes and second--surviving inhalation, swallowing, or injection. And how the hell is it going to make it into your muscle cells and then to your mitochondria??????
Thirdly, ATP isn't real expensive, but I can't see it being sold in mass quantities cheaply.
Sounds like snake-oil to me....
Honestly I can't see ATP first--surviving room temp for more than a couple of minutes and second--surviving inhalation, swallowing, or injection. And how the hell is it going to make it into your muscle cells and then to your mitochondria??????
Thirdly, ATP isn't real expensive, but I can't see it being sold in mass quantities cheaply.
Sounds like snake-oil to me....
I had thought the same thing too, because my Biology teacher at the University said the same thing almost - he said it couldn't be made to use in our systems because it needs this or that to work or something along those lines. In other words he said its probably don't work. But i thought 'what the hell does he know'.
Anyway, i was hoping it might work but oh well!
bionicbub
Anyway, i was hoping it might work but oh well!
bionicbub
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