I need some advice please.

[LiquidPhire]

My first cycle hows it look??


This cycle was suggested to me by NeedTo *Hes the man* , just want some more opinions on what I put into my body , since ive read that its not so smart to run 10 weeks on Dbols , anywho.


250mg test-e x2 a week 10 weeks Fri/Tues
200mg deca a x2 week 10 weeks Fri/Tues
40mg dbal a day first 4 weeks
60mg dbal a day remaining 6
nolva for the PCT along with HCG
nolva everyday??

Weight 170 Height 5'9 , been working out for 13 months or so, bit of a hard gainer though played soccer for 11 years of my life, I am 21 in a week.

Shooting for a Diet of 5000-7000 calories a day.

Thanks All.

 

[littleb]

bro i wont adress everything i want in this thread, but for health reasons i will say do NOT run dbol 10 weeks ...some prob have, but shit bro your liver will hate u

 

[Studio Muscle Canada]

dont bother with the d's after week four.. everything else looks good.

 

[LiquidPhire]

bro i wont adress everything i want in this thread, but for health reasons i will say do NOT run dbol 10 weeks ...some prob have, but shit bro your liver will hate u

Thanks , I thought so ive done my homework. Can one of you address my nolva question I was suggested to take 20mg a day if and only if some symptoms start. Can I take it just to be sure they dont? Ive already got some nice man boobies, pecks.

 

[solidspine]

Looks good, he is right that's a long time for d-bol on your first cycle, also you could inject the test-e and deca once a week, personal preference.


The first time I took d-bol, it was russian and I stopped after 4 weeks because, I was really getting too big, too pumped, it as crazy but fun.

 

[littleb]

ok i will say it, but i will say it nice so others may not flame as bad.. 20 yrs old with 13 months lifting.. you prob dont need any aas right now..but i know you will anyway so be smart... also, i would personally only run 1 compound first cycle test+ dbol this way any problems you will know what it is....save the deca for later.... just my opinion others may disagree...gl bro

 

[littleb]

Thanks , I thought so ive done my homework. Can one of you address my nolva question I was suggested to take 20mg a day if and only if some symptoms start. Can I take it just to be sure they dont? Ive already got some nice man boobies, pecks.

are you saying you have mild gyno? or extra b/f maybe i am misunderstanding

 

[CO B-man]

Ten weeks on D-bol would mean you felt like that girl on Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory that blew up like a water balloon. I just came off my four week portion of my cycle w/D-bol and am so glad the bloating is subsiding. I think I would go crazy feeling that bloated for ten weeks before you continued on. BUt that is just how it affected me maybe you are different

 

[LiquidPhire]

ok i will say it, but i will say it nice so others may not flame as bad.. 20 yrs old with 13 months lifting.. you prob dont need any aas right now..but i know you will anyway so be smart... also, i would personally only run 1 compound first cycle test+ dbol this way any problems you will know what it is....save the deca for later.... just my opinion others may disagree...gl bro

Thanks for the advice bro, Ive already shot up the deca+test though.. Still trying to figure out howto give karma , id give ya some if i could figure it out ;p

 

[LiquidPhire]

are you saying you have mild gyno? or extra b/f maybe i am misunderstanding

extra bf trying to figure out howto cut back on it while keeping a good steady diet, more cardio perhaps? I usually run a mile everytime I goto the gym 3x a week , but since I want to get big and not burn it all off I might cut back on the running aspect.

 

[Bigredcanecorso]

dont bother with the d's after week four.. everything else looks good.

Agreed 100%

 

[bverysmart]

Bro

I gotta agree with litleb. I would stick with 1 compound for your first cycle. Str8 test. Now you said that you already took your test and deca, what are you asking about if you already started using?

If you are going to use multiple compounds, I would NOT reccomend starting with DECA. Use your test E and if you absolutley are set on it use Dbol for only 4 weeks at max of 50mg/day. Remember this is your first. You have no idea how your bodies going to react. If you start using multiple coumpounds you take the chance of having a problem and not knowing what its from.

You need to be very careful with this. I promise you bro, if you mess with the animal it will hurt you if your not prepared.

good luck

bverysmart

 

[littleb]

you already started, i woulda stuck with test and dbol,- dbol = short half live.. test e and deca --long lasting--....not a need to worry, i just prefer to see how my body reacts to 1 thing at a time....

 

[bca21]

But just remember you need to be consistent with diet and taing and keep your head on straight bro. Good luck brotha, sounds good

 

[Ulter]

DO NOT USE NOLVA WITH DECA.
Other than that, like they said, dbol for 4 weeks.

Use AIFM throughout the cycle to handle the estrogen and bloat. Otherwise you're going to look like a Thanksgiving Day Parade Balloon. Also you it for your PCT of HCG. I would get Proviron and or Clomid in there too.

 

[littleb]

DO NOT USE NOLVA WITH DECA.
Other than that, like they said, dbol for 4 weeks.

Use AIFM throughout the cycle to handle the estrogen and bloat. Otherwise you're going to look like a Thanksgiving Day Parade Balloon. Also you it for your PCT of HCG. I would get Proviron and or Clomid in there too.

he could still use nolva for pct? or am i wrong? I will never post on what i have not tried, and if i do i will say so, i have used nolva during pct after deca+test cycle, with clomid.. no hcg at the time.. recovered fine. i may be misunderstanding what u meant, if so i am sorry..

 

[Ulter]

Nolva causes an increase in Progesterone expression. Deca is a progestin. Men's bodies don't like progestins or progesterone because they cause gyno, high BP, etc. Since there are so many better choices now it's better to tell guys not to use Nolva with Deca. If they are progesterone sensitive it's not good. And there's no way for you to know whether he is going to have a flair up or not.
The deca will be there for weeks so it's not good to use nolva for that PCT.

 

[LiquidPhire]

Nolva causes an increase in Progesterone expression. Deca is a progestin. Men's bodies don't like progestins or progesterone because they cause gyno, high BP, etc. Since there are so many better choices now it's better to tell guys not to use Nolva with Deca. If they are progesterone sensitive it's not good. And there's no way for you to know whether he is going to have a flair up or not.
The deca will be there for weeks so it's not good to use nolva for that PCT.

Thanks for the info bro!

 

[wootool]

DO NOT USE NOLVA WITH DECA.
Other than that, like they said, dbol for 4 weeks.

Use AIFM throughout the cycle to handle the estrogen and bloat. Otherwise you're going to look like a Thanksgiving Day Parade Balloon. Also you it for your PCT of HCG. I would get Proviron and or Clomid in there too.

Dont use Nolva with deca? And IN CAPITAL LETTERS no less. Is there some heretofore unknown danger you're trying to imply? This is a new one on me.

shouldnt use nolva, but use aifm instead. OK.

I'll save the smilies, and just ask if you could please give a technical explanation of why as to both statements. with study references please.

Isnt mainstream thinking that progesterone gyno requires a small amount of estrogen to manifest, and nolva COULD help PREVENT IT? I've never heard or read of it now being a risk to increase the chances of progesterone gyno.

also, shouldnt there be a disclaimer in your sig indicating that you sell AIFM so people can judge the objectivity of the advice? Doesnt mean its a bad thing, just something people should know. doesnt that sound reasonable?

-

 

[needtogetaas]

DO NOT USE NOLVA WITH DECA.
Other than that, like they said, dbol for 4 weeks.

Use AIFM throughout the cycle to handle the estrogen and bloat. Otherwise you're going to look like a Thanksgiving Day Parade Balloon. Also you it for your PCT of HCG. I would get Proviron and or Clomid in there too.

good advice.
nothing wrong with a test deca dbal cycle like that.its a clasic bulk cycle used by many.
I have don 3 of them once a ran the dbal all the way through and I had no problems.

some hcg and clomid for pct whould be grate.but yes 4-6 weeks of dbal would be just fine.

 

[needtogetaas]

Dont use Nolva with deca? And IN CAPITAL LETTERS no less. Is there some heretofore unknown danger you're trying to imply? This is a new one on me.

shouldnt use nolva, but use aifm instead. OK.

I'll save the smilies, and just ask if you could please give a technical explanation of why as to both statements. with study references please.

Isnt mainstream thinking that progesterone gyno requires a small amount of estrogen to manifest, and nolva COULD help PREVENT IT? I've never heard or read of it now being a risk to increase the chances of progesterone gyno.

also, shouldnt there be a disclaimer in your sig indicating that you sell AIFM so people can judge the objectivity of the advice? Doesnt mean its a bad thing, just something people should know. doesnt that sound reasonable?

-

well I have used nolva and vitamin b to help with anny gyno coused by deca myself.though on this cycle I never had a problem with it.I think ulter said use the nolva but also add hcg and clomid to the pct witch if thats what he said that grate advice.

 

[wootool]

Dont use Nolva with deca? And IN CAPITAL LETTERS no less. Is there some heretofore unknown danger you're trying to imply? This is a new one on me.

shouldnt use nolva, but use aifm instead. OK.

I'll save the smilies, and just ask if you could please give a technical explanation of why as to both statements. with study references please.

Isnt mainstream thinking that progesterone gyno requires a small amount of estrogen to manifest, and nolva COULD help PREVENT IT? I've never heard or read of it now being a risk to increase the chances of progesterone gyno.

also, shouldnt there be a disclaimer in your sig indicating that you sell AIFM so people can judge the objectivity of the advice? Doesnt mean its a bad thing, just something people should know. doesnt that sound reasonable?

-

Bump for Ulter

-

 

[littleb]

Nolva causes an increase in Progesterone expression. Deca is a progestin. Men's bodies don't like progestins or progesterone because they cause gyno, high BP, etc. Since there are so many better choices now it's better to tell guys not to use Nolva with Deca. If they are progesterone sensitive it's not good. And there's no way for you to know whether he is going to have a flair up or not.
The deca will be there for weeks so it's not good to use nolva for that PCT.

mmm ok, honestly that is the first i heard of that, i knew deca was progestin, I really never read anything about not using nolva for pct after deca cycle, I did that b4 with no problems., maybe i was lucky?
now you wouldnt start pct right away with teste and deca,both long acting, so wouldnt that be ok? i will try to read up on this.. and if i am wrong i apoligize to all

 

[wootool]

mmm ok, honestly that is the first i heard of that, i knew deca was progestin, I really never read anything about not using nolva for pct after deca cycle, I did that b4 with no problems., maybe i was lucky?
now you wouldnt start pct right away with teste and deca,both long acting, so wouldnt that be ok? i will try to read up on this.. and if i am wrong i apoligize to all

Yeah, Ulter is breaking new ground. But he hasnt come back to explain his novel theory.

And I think he's saying no nolva with deca neither during nor as PCT after cycle, which is not mainstream thinking. He's saying use his company's product instead, that was the punchline.

Bump for technical explanation and references from Ulter.

-

 

[GymIntensity]

I think he meant dont use nolva to combat gyno from deca. So i assume he meant during cycle . I'm pretty sure PCT is fine because the point is to start producing test naturally again not combat the gyno from the deca post cycle.

 

[littleb]

I did not get a chance to research anything yet, busy weekend.... I pm'ed ulter last night, my biggest fear was maybe i missed somthing and got lucky on my cycles, and gave bunk advice... For the record i did not mean to ruffle any feathers, or give advice on somthing i have not done myself.. hopfully anyone that knows me on here knows i dont answer a thread if i have no exp. with topic.. and if i do i say i have never used such and such..
I been doing this a lil bit, but i am humble to the fact a lot of bros here know more then me, and have tried more compounds... so any more info on nolva for pct after deca+test cycle?

 

[LiquidPhire]

I did not get a chance to research anything yet, busy weekend.... I pm'ed ulter last night, my biggest fear was maybe i missed somthing and got lucky on my cycles, and gave bunk advice... For the record i did not mean to ruffle any feathers, or give advice on somthing i have not done myself.. hopfully anyone that knows me on here knows i dont answer a thread if i have no exp. with topic.. and if i do i say i have never used such and such..
I been doing this a lil bit, but i am humble to the fact a lot of bros here know more then me, and have tried more compounds... so any more info on nolva for pct after deca+test cycle?

Well Id like to know this also , because it involves me , thanks bros!

 

[wootool]

Well Id like to know this also , because it involves me , thanks bros!

you are on a test/deca/dbol cycle, correct?

your question re nolva at 20-40mg if you start to get gyno symptoms is the standard accepted mainstream protocol. If you start to get itchy nips, start to feel a bump under the nipple, jump on it. If Ulter has a better solution supported by science and mainstream practice, I'd like to see it as would you.


Most (if not all) gyno is estrogen related, from aromatizing compounds like test and dbol. anti-E's such as nolva will block the E receptors in breast tissue and prevent gyno, but allow estrogen to remain in your system to perform its other functions. aromatase inibitors let/arimidex etc prevent aromatization and thus eliminate the estrogen itself preventing the problem in a different way, but some say at the expense of some gains (estrogen is beneficial in many ways to growth which can be the subject for another thread).

Mainstream thought is also that progesterone gyno (if such a thing even exists) requires a small amount of estrogen to manifest. thus either anti-e's or anti-a's should address that problem as well.

Progesterone gyno btw is so rare that lots of knowledgable people in the game dont believe it exists, believing its just mis-read run of the mill estrogen gyno (including from rebound estrogen post-cycle, regardless of cycle compounds)

What IS real, is prolactin related sides from progestins:

1) inability to orgasm, or extended refractory period,
2) lactation, or
3) increased size and/or coloring of the areola (vs a lump underneath or itchy nips)

to address or prevent prolactin related sides from progesterones like deca/npp/tren/etc

1) winny will compete for the Progesterone receptor and thus concurrent use will help prevent any progesterone related sides,
2) b-6 (weaker more natural first-line approach) and/or dostinex (the sledgehammer approach) will either block production of or counter the effects of prolactin (dont remember which)


--

 

[GymIntensity]

the rule for progesto or deca/tren gyno is to use dostinex . nolva wont help if gyno is brought on by the deca. Not sure if it will make it "worse" tho just not help.

 

[littleb]

the rule for progesto or deca/tren gyno is to use dostinex . nolva wont help if gyno is brought on by the deca. Not sure if it will make it "worse" tho just not help.

I knew about that, I also do not know if it makes it worse.......I was only talking about for pct. my thinking is even if you wait 7-10 days afterlast shot, how can nolva be bad? even though deca still be in system.. I may be missing somthing i dont know i tried to find somthing on it but could not.. only looked for a lil bit though... anybody????