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it's like that fuckin Leo DiCaprio movie.
HRT - has arrived
- Thread starter billfred
- Start date
it's like that fuckin Leo DiCaprio movie.
ouch
Lolololol
Cool. Thanks bro.
can I just list the people I've had dreams about instead? I don't even remember the dreams
billfred
New member
No dreams last night. Woke at 4 am and did not go back to sleep. So both off days for HGH I did not sleep as well.
Took 2nd test shot this morning. Placebo effect my ass (no pun intended). I can feel that stuff within an hour. I can also feel it wearing off after about 3rd or 4th day. Maybe the reason younger folks do not get that jolt is you are already charged.
Digi and Plunkey - sound off??
Took 2nd test shot this morning. Placebo effect my ass (no pun intended). I can feel that stuff within an hour. I can also feel it wearing off after about 3rd or 4th day. Maybe the reason younger folks do not get that jolt is you are already charged.
Digi and Plunkey - sound off??
billfred
New member
OK - this is a copy and paste of another copy and paste in this forum.
As you know, I don't know dick about this stuff so I just wanted see what your thoughts were on this.
HCG unraveled –
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone. (1) More specifically LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.
When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, which causes rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production. (2-6,19) However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle, during PCT. Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.
Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960’s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.
One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.
To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)
Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.
The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production. 20)
These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. (11) For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. (11) Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes (12,13,19 ) -- the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).
In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.
Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)
A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)
Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.
Recap –
For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.
In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.
jnevin
New member
jnevin
New member
I wouldn't worry about it unless you woke up with a boner.
You do
I don't know if I can even sew a button anymore
we were going to town on those curtains though like it was the most fun thing we could have possibly been doing lol
and they were ugly grandma style curtains with flower patterns on them
mrplunkey
New member
For me, I felt a little better off (better sleep, more energy) after about a month or so on HGH. Then, I saw a big effect around 6 months (much better recovery, changes in body composition). And finally about 1-2 years out, I noticed the collagen in my skin was regenerating like crazy. Now when I shoot with an insulin needle, I'll sometimes bend the needle unless I go dead-on perpendicular to my skin. My hide is crazy tough now.
So as far as hourly or day-to-day effects, I'd guess that's placebo effect. But who knows, it may effect your brain that quickly -- I don't have any science backing that statement up.
lol!
mrplunkey
New member
I'm always skeptical of N=1 observations.
billfred
New member
so a little update here.
Coming on to 6 weeks. Effects have been tapering off for the last few. I get a little boost the few days after test injection but not it definitely tapers as the week wears on. Cardio is stamina is much better. Assume the HGH has a bit to do with that.
Have my follow up blood work scheduled for next week.
Coming on to 6 weeks. Effects have been tapering off for the last few. I get a little boost the few days after test injection but not it definitely tapers as the week wears on. Cardio is stamina is much better. Assume the HGH has a bit to do with that.
Have my follow up blood work scheduled for next week.
Are you taking an AI?
When is the next time you take bloods?
When is the next time you take bloods?
Your mind is fucking with you.
Give it like 2 more weeks bro. 8 weeks is when I start to actually feel cyp.
billfred
New member
Headholio
New member
Whats happening with your strength, weight and bodyfat?
billfred
New member
I have put on about 6 lbs - not really a desire. Could probably add to that if I pushed it.
I have much better endurancej. I smoked a 5k today and I have not run in 2 weeks due to back issues.
billfred
New member
So went in for follow up bloodwork today. Will be interesting to see where test levels fall. Remember my overall test was in 600's before I started this. I have a suspicion they are lower than that now. We shall see.
I have only been jogging about once a week due to lower back issues. Have been riding the stationary bike and doing some hiking when in the mountains. So I run a 5k the other day and probably ran my fastest time in about 10 yrs. I think that is a result of the HGH - not sure ,but I like it. I am going to start pushing the running aspect now and see how fast I can get. From the way I felt during this race, I suspect I am going to be able to get back down to times I ran when I was in my 30's.
I have only been jogging about once a week due to lower back issues. Have been riding the stationary bike and doing some hiking when in the mountains. So I run a 5k the other day and probably ran my fastest time in about 10 yrs. I think that is a result of the HGH - not sure ,but I like it. I am going to start pushing the running aspect now and see how fast I can get. From the way I felt during this race, I suspect I am going to be able to get back down to times I ran when I was in my 30's.
billfred
New member
I went to one of the aging clinics. He was more into your test is lower than your what your body is used to based on your the effects you are seeing (increase body fat, lower libido etc). Let's try and boost it to see what happens.
I think I am just really sensitive to what my body is feeling. First few weeks of the test shots, I was on fire. That has tapered off and now I only feel the effects of the injections for about 2 days after and then it tapers pretty good.
I got my bloods today and it is two days before my next test injection so I am assuming I tapered below my normal level. I feel like I have anyway. I am basing this totally on boner activity so not sure if that is as accurate as blood test.
I will let you know.
In regards to weight and muscle, I feel like I could increase my lifting but am not going to. Trying to stay around my natural body weight just a bit more toned. Again, my weight is up and my pants are looser so I think I am loosing BF but I really don't see it. Part of the problem is the test shot day and the day after, I am STARVING!!!! Got to stop feeding that beast.
billfred
New member
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Current ----- Original ------ Normal Range
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum ........ .9 ______ .8 ______ 0. - 4 ng/mL
Insulin - Like Growth Factor I ..... 199 ______ 121 ______ 59 - 201
Testosterone, Serum .................. 911 _______ 686 ______ 348 - 1197
Free Testosterone .................. 21.2 ______ 15 ________ 7.2 - 24
Estradiol ................. 26.5 _______ 32.7 ________ 7.6 - 42.6
Comments????
Sorry - not easy to make a table here I see
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum ........ .9 ______ .8 ______ 0. - 4 ng/mL
Insulin - Like Growth Factor I ..... 199 ______ 121 ______ 59 - 201
Testosterone, Serum .................. 911 _______ 686 ______ 348 - 1197
Free Testosterone .................. 21.2 ______ 15 ________ 7.2 - 24
Estradiol ................. 26.5 _______ 32.7 ________ 7.6 - 42.6
Comments????
Sorry - not easy to make a table here I see
sorry to have to break the news to you bro
Pretty sure you've got a case of teh geigh
digimon7068
New member
normal is overrated...
billfred
New member
Yeah - 2x per week. It is down from original.
Headholio
New member
The President and Mrs. Coolidge were being shown [separately] around an experimental government farm. When [Mrs. Coolidge] came to the chicken yard she noticed that a rooster was mating very frequently. She asked the attendant how often that happened and was told, "Dozens of times each day." Mrs. Coolidge said, "Tell that to the President when he comes by." Upon being told, President asked, "Same hen every time?" The reply was, "Oh, no, Mr. President, a different hen every time." President: "Tell that to Mrs. Coolidge."
billfred
New member
No Cooledge - she is more an Elanor Roosevelt
how many days post injection was blood drawn?
Are you taking Test C or E?
How often do you inject? How many mg per injection?
billfred
New member
digimon7068
New member
hit it 3 times in the last 36 hours...
get real
digimon7068
New member
real talk
the last time was a sneak attack this morning while she was in the shower...hair all shampooed (sp?) up...suds on her face...couldn't open her eyes...defenseless...bent her over against the wall and just hit that thing like it owed me money
digimon7068
New member
then i went downstairs and made omlettes and wheat toast for me and the kids, on account of i'm a good dad
real talk
the last time was a sneak attack this morning while she was in the shower...hair all shampooed (sp?) up...suds on her face...couldn't open her eyes...defenseless...bent her over against the wall and just hit that thing like it owed me money
that's assault brutha!
digimon7068
New member
she could have said no hahahaha
She probably just didn't even notice....
'Is it in?'
'Is it in?'
digimon7068
New member
it didn't last long enough for her to get physically ill...and facing the wall with soap in her eyes, she wasn't able to look at me...so it was all good
it didn't last long enough for her to get physically ill...and facing the wall with soap in her eyes, she wasn't able to look at me...so it was all good
2 pumps a squirt and a giggle?
digimon7068
New member
i'm pretty sure i made it the full 8 seconds...
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