how much do steroids increase strength?

[biteme]

This is a topic that has been discussed alot on the various boards. If I remember correctly, there have been problems showing conclusively that down regulation does actually happen. It makes sense that it would.......but proving it beyond reasonable doubt has been difficult. Thats science for ya I guess .

This is worth a read:

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/androgen-receptors-02.htm

Kinda makes the point that this process is still considered hypothetical at least as far as AAS go.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting and helpful. There is so much to learn.

 

[DOM]

biteme

There are a lot of things that factor into your AAS question biteme.

First of all -- I don't believe that your AAS dose is going to have a strong correlation to your strength. Obviously taking 500mg test/week has increased your strength way over what it was naturally -- however, bumping your dose up to 1000mg/week will only show a small strength gain. In other words, 1000 is better than 500 for strength but not by much.

Second -- as spatts said, training plays a huge role. I don't think anybody takes more AAS on the planet than professional bodybuilders.... Yet few if any have benched 600, and I would bet they'd be lucky to get a 1000 lb QUARTER squat. This is because powerlifters train primarily with very low reps. Most of us on this board cannot remember the last time we did a set of 27. OK, this is not to say that powerlifters don't use AAS. I'm just saying -- it's your training methods that are going to limit your bench, not your AAS use.

Third -- I dont' know your AAS history dude, but if you've been on since June, and this is your first run with AAS, then I would really consider coming off for a while. If you do have experience, then color me purple.

I guess my answer to your main question is that yes, AAS give an initial strength boost -- it will depend on your doses, and how androgenic the AAS are. After that initial boost though, they will only aid your training in gaining strength. More AAS does not equate to more strength beyond the normal dosages.

Takes spatts' advice, she knows what she's talking about. If you adjust your training, you'll have way better chances at that 450 bench than if you try to reach it by AAS.

 

[biteme]

Thanks for the input DOM, that is what I really wanted to know, and if accurate, you answered it. I have taken AAS several cycles, but not for 6 years. Yall are right. I know. If I trained for powerlifting, I could lift more. I didn't have any intentions to until I noticed how strong I was getting. Because of past injuries, I don't know if my shoulders could take that kind of training seclusively. What I normally do is one set to failure with 225. On my next set, I can't do nearly as many reps, then I will go up to 315 for reps sometimes because at that point, I can't do enough to seriously risk injury. I could max out, but there's never been a reason to since it would possibly injure me. From what I'm hearing these bench press suits may aid a lot in preventing injury. I also wonder how much they can increase your bench. Say, if you can bench 420 without a pause, how much can you bench with a double-ply suit?

 

[spatts]

Imnotdutch, I think the difference is whether down regulation exists or whether it exists for androgen receptors. I can't comment on the latter, but in general, yes down regulation occurs in other receptors, as a function. Just like when you open a receptor to crack, it never quite goes back the same way, so the next time around, it takes more to get the receptor to react, etc...just about any physiological addiction could apply.

Now I've seen this happen with AS/AAS. I've seen ladies take 5mg winny, up to 10 one cycle, and then the next cycle, they don't start seeing the same results until they get to 12-15, etc... I suppose it's fair to say that the scientific data is inconclusive, but the anecdotal evidence seems to rear its ugly head in many cases.

In either case, I don't think 500 extra mgs of test will do more for him than speed work and board presses.

 

[biteme]

floor presses, board presses, speed work, benching with chains. I've heard of all this but don't know what it is. Can training like this increase your strength dramatically?

 

[spatts]

Sidenote: If more myonuclei means more androgenic receptors, then wouldn't it take more androgen to get the same results since it's being spread over a wider number of receptors? I'm thinking of it like 1 cup of water and 5 little bowls. You fill those bowls all the way up with that 1 cup of water. If you then take 1 cup of water and 10 little bowls, it would take more water to fill those 10 little cups to the same height as the previous 5. That may have made no sense at all...but I'm curious. Thoughts?

 

[biteme]

Sidenote: If more myonuclei means more androgenic receptors, then wouldn't it take more androgen to get the same results since it's being spread over a wider number of receptors? I'm thinking of it like 1 cup of water and 5 little bowls. You fill those bowls all the way up with that 1 cup of water. If you then take 1 cup of water and 10 little bowls, it would take more water to fill those 10 little cups to the same height as the previous 5. That may have made no sense at all...but I'm curious. Thoughts?

Yeah, I'm curious also. BTW, that article said that the no down-regulating only applies to testosterone and not the designer steroid drugs such as winstrol, etc.

 

[spatts]

I thought it was referring to androgenic receptors in general...perhaps I need to revisit the article.

Biteme, there are many ways to train, and you have to do what works for you. What works for me is Westside. Roughly, it looks like this:

Sunday...Dynamic (Speed) Bench
Monday...Max Effort Squat/Dead/GM
Tuesday...Sled Dragging or other GPP work
Wednesday...Max Effort Bench
Thursday...Sled Dragging or other GPP work
Friday....Speed Squats

I do active recovery every day, sometimes several times a day (see the sticky at the top of the training board). Each workout has two main moves, that are low TUT (1-3 RM on max days) or speed work, then the accessory work is in a higher rep range (for me, 10-15 of 3-4 sets). For example, ME Bench day might be Reverse band press to a 1RM, close grip 2 board to a 3RM, then JM presses for tris, reverse grip rows for lats, and face pulls for delts. That's it. There are 6 reasons I like this training method: Low rep work for strength, high rep work for hypertrophy, speed work, GPP, active recovery, and planned rest (deliberate intervals of time between max lift days, etc). In other words, variety. I grow like a weed, and the numbers keep going up too.

This thread shows some samples of our training:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=142351

 

[biteme]

I thought it was referring to androgenic receptors in general...perhaps I need to revisit the article.

Biteme, there are many ways to train, and you have to do what works for you. What works for me is Westside. Roughly, it looks like this:

Sunday...Dynamic (Speed) Bench
Monday...Max Effort Squat/Dead/GM
Tuesday...Sled Dragging or other GPP work
Wednesday...Max Effort Bench
Thursday...Sled Dragging or other GPP work
Friday....Speed Squats

I do active recovery every day, sometimes several times a day (see the sticky at the top of the training board). Each workout has two main moves, that are low TUT (1-3 RM on max days) or speed work, then the accessory work is in a higher rep range (for me, 10-15 of 3-4 sets). For example, ME Bench day might be Reverse band press to a 1RM, close grip 2 board to a 3RM, then JM presses for tris, reverse grip rows for lats, and face pulls for delts. That's it. There are 6 reasons I like this training method: Low rep work for strength, high rep work for hypertrophy, speed work, GPP, active recovery, and planned rest (deliberate intervals of time between max lift days, etc). In other words, variety. I grow like a weed, and the numbers keep going up too.

This thread shows some samples of our training:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=142351

Thanks a lot. I need to find a gym around Dallas where people do serious powerlifting. Train for a few months and see what I can do.

 

[zackdarnell]

Originally posted by spatts This thread shows some samples of our training:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=142351

Just to note- it says you have to be Platinum to view the thread.