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- Thread starter fitmedic
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diet
well this is whats going on...i have been on the NHE bodybuilder plan for 4 weeks now. im trying to lose bodyfat while gaining mass. according to the author, rob faigin, you can do this if you follow his plan. i have been religious about this, VERY STRICT eating habits. im not seeing anything yet other than getting smaller-exactly what i didnt wanna do. the jist of his program is days 1-7 less than 20g carbs day and all the pro and fat you can eat. youre trying to shift you body into running off fat instead of carbs. i felt like crap the first 3 days -as he said- but after that i felt great. after the first 7 days your body is in fat burning mode so you cycle carbs on a 3/4 rotation. on carb load days which for me are tues and sat you pig out with "good carbs" and low pro. the other days again, high pro and fat and less than 30g carbs. i tell ya though im not seeing the fat loss. only muscle loss. maybe a little fat too, im sure thats inevitable. but crap i AM SO FRUSTRATED. im wondering if i should switch to something with more carbs on a daily basis. kinda like the infamous spatts cutting/bulking cycle. i know JJ tried the NHE plan for a while and is not on it. other people on extique.com rave about their results with this plan but im wondering why im not getting results i want? any suuggestions or comments ??
well this is whats going on...i have been on the NHE bodybuilder plan for 4 weeks now. im trying to lose bodyfat while gaining mass. according to the author, rob faigin, you can do this if you follow his plan. i have been religious about this, VERY STRICT eating habits. im not seeing anything yet other than getting smaller-exactly what i didnt wanna do. the jist of his program is days 1-7 less than 20g carbs day and all the pro and fat you can eat. youre trying to shift you body into running off fat instead of carbs. i felt like crap the first 3 days -as he said- but after that i felt great. after the first 7 days your body is in fat burning mode so you cycle carbs on a 3/4 rotation. on carb load days which for me are tues and sat you pig out with "good carbs" and low pro. the other days again, high pro and fat and less than 30g carbs. i tell ya though im not seeing the fat loss. only muscle loss. maybe a little fat too, im sure thats inevitable. but crap i AM SO FRUSTRATED. im wondering if i should switch to something with more carbs on a daily basis. kinda like the infamous spatts cutting/bulking cycle. i know JJ tried the NHE plan for a while and is not on it. other people on extique.com rave about their results with this plan but im wondering why im not getting results i want? any suuggestions or comments ??
JJFigure
New member
When I dropped my kcals to start my cutting phase, I started losing weight - 1-2 lbs./week, but that weight loss definitely seemed to be primarily fat. I'm not taking bodyfat measurements - haven't gotten a new set of calipers yet - so I've been relying on measurements and the scale. My upper body measurements are holding strong, but my upper thigh measurement started dropping 1/4 inch/week.
I saw results in as little as 2 weeks, which told me I was on the right track. Have you been using skinfold or tape measurements to help you determine if you're losing fat vs. muscle? Are you losing strength?
I saw results in as little as 2 weeks, which told me I was on the right track. Have you been using skinfold or tape measurements to help you determine if you're losing fat vs. muscle? Are you losing strength?
JJFigure
New member
DiPasquale re-engineered the original Anabolic Diet and is now calling it the Metabolic Diet. I borrowed the original from my PL friend, but the original is no longer published. However, he basically uses the same format, same diet in his new "Metabolic" diet; he just seems to plug his supplements more in the new format. That was really the only difference I could find.
You always lose some amount of muscle when cutting - I think that's inevitable, whether your natural or not. But if my measurements are any indicator, I'm not losing very much muscle. For example, my arm measurement, before I started cutting, was 12 3/4 inches flexed. About 6 weeks into my last diet, I was down to 12 inches flexed, but I also lost fat off my triceps. 4 weeks into my second round of dieting - and 12 weeks total dieting, between the two comps - I'm still at 12 inches flexed. I have a ltitle stubborn fat left on my tris, so that measurement may decrease a little more before I'm done, but since I'm also getting stronger, I'm not that concerned right now. If my chest/arm measurements start to drop significantly, then I'll start worrying.
My body seems to like this type of diet, because I don't flatten out that much, even after 5 days of low carb. But other people feel like they really flatten out, which makes them think they're losing muscle. Like Spatt's said, that's gotta be water loss. IMO, you'd have to be starving yourself to lose significant amounts of muscle, especially if you're training heavy.
You always lose some amount of muscle when cutting - I think that's inevitable, whether your natural or not. But if my measurements are any indicator, I'm not losing very much muscle. For example, my arm measurement, before I started cutting, was 12 3/4 inches flexed. About 6 weeks into my last diet, I was down to 12 inches flexed, but I also lost fat off my triceps. 4 weeks into my second round of dieting - and 12 weeks total dieting, between the two comps - I'm still at 12 inches flexed. I have a ltitle stubborn fat left on my tris, so that measurement may decrease a little more before I'm done, but since I'm also getting stronger, I'm not that concerned right now. If my chest/arm measurements start to drop significantly, then I'll start worrying.
My body seems to like this type of diet, because I don't flatten out that much, even after 5 days of low carb. But other people feel like they really flatten out, which makes them think they're losing muscle. Like Spatt's said, that's gotta be water loss. IMO, you'd have to be starving yourself to lose significant amounts of muscle, especially if you're training heavy.
diet
well i never took measurements so im going on looks only. i look way smaller. i dont think im losing much strength- maybe a little. i have always been very thin skinned and vascular-i still am but just dont look as big.
as far as faigin goes, hell i dont know. i guess i thought his plan would be kind of a "magic bullet." as i said, i followed it to the "T". he claims to have read and researched over 10,000 articles to write this book. it is VERY informative but not user friendly at all. too scientific for me but it makes complete and total sense.
do you think his plan would work without an awful lot of cardio? i really have cut waaay down on that. maybe 1x week now. gonna start back to 3x week though. i was just afraid of losing what muscle i have left.
i havent done any fat testing because calipers would be the only thing i have access to-if i bought them- and i hear the results can be different every time so obviously not an accurate indicator.
im thinking of adding more carbs per day-maybe around 50 instead of 30. actually he suggsts no more than 30 buti bet i dont eat 15/ day. could that be the problem??? not enough carbs so that is prevent further fat loss. my fat intake is flax, nuts and all the other good fats. i m also taking r-ala but think im wating it because i rarely eat any carbs. i still feel good but this is toying with me mentally. its been about 4 weeks now and im ready to try something new.
woe is me
well i never took measurements so im going on looks only. i look way smaller. i dont think im losing much strength- maybe a little. i have always been very thin skinned and vascular-i still am but just dont look as big.
as far as faigin goes, hell i dont know. i guess i thought his plan would be kind of a "magic bullet." as i said, i followed it to the "T". he claims to have read and researched over 10,000 articles to write this book. it is VERY informative but not user friendly at all. too scientific for me but it makes complete and total sense.
do you think his plan would work without an awful lot of cardio? i really have cut waaay down on that. maybe 1x week now. gonna start back to 3x week though. i was just afraid of losing what muscle i have left.
i havent done any fat testing because calipers would be the only thing i have access to-if i bought them- and i hear the results can be different every time so obviously not an accurate indicator.
im thinking of adding more carbs per day-maybe around 50 instead of 30. actually he suggsts no more than 30 buti bet i dont eat 15/ day. could that be the problem??? not enough carbs so that is prevent further fat loss. my fat intake is flax, nuts and all the other good fats. i m also taking r-ala but think im wating it because i rarely eat any carbs. i still feel good but this is toying with me mentally. its been about 4 weeks now and im ready to try something new.
woe is me
JJFigure
New member
I know you're doing the bodybuilder plan - was your goal to put on muscle? That's primarily what the BB plan was meant for; muscle gain w/out gaining significant amounts of fat. But by muscle gain, I'm talking about increasing kcals (specifically fat kcals) - I was eating at least 2300 kcals and up to 2700 kcals/day when I was doing the BB portion of NHE.
If you're just trying to get leaner, you could probably do the general plan, which allows for up to 60 grams/carb a day and is more moderate in fat intake. I guess the bottom line is what exactly is your goal? Muscle gain or leanness? You can't really have both.
I mainly switched to the anabolic diet for this cutting cycle because it similates the final week of contest prep every week (if that makes sense). By carb loading two days in a row, I can get a better feel for how much water I retain each time and when I look my hardest. I can also play with my carb loads each week to see which types of carbs I have the best results with.
If you're just trying to get leaner, you could probably do the general plan, which allows for up to 60 grams/carb a day and is more moderate in fat intake. I guess the bottom line is what exactly is your goal? Muscle gain or leanness? You can't really have both.
I mainly switched to the anabolic diet for this cutting cycle because it similates the final week of contest prep every week (if that makes sense). By carb loading two days in a row, I can get a better feel for how much water I retain each time and when I look my hardest. I can also play with my carb loads each week to see which types of carbs I have the best results with.
LOL, leaner??? yeah i guess so. um, my goal..yes to get more muscle. according to faigin you CAN do both- leaner and more mass if you do what he says. i did but ain't seein' it.
jj, how long did it take you before you started seeing weight or muscle gain and how did you tell the difference?
jj, how long did it take you before you started seeing weight or muscle gain and how did you tell the difference?
JJFigure
New member
I don't think your carbs are necessarily too low, but your kcals might be. When I used the BB plan to add muscle, I really had to force myself to eat more kcals. How many kcalories/day are you eating? Are you eating enough fat kcals?
I would also expect you to gain some fat though at a higher kcal level, just not as much you'd gain on a carbohydrate based diet. In 5 weeks of bulking, I put on 4 lbs., but according to my fat calipers, went up in bodyfat by .6%.
I think only an untrained individual could really get leaner and gain mass at the same time on the NHE or on the anabolic diet.
I would also expect you to gain some fat though at a higher kcal level, just not as much you'd gain on a carbohydrate based diet. In 5 weeks of bulking, I put on 4 lbs., but according to my fat calipers, went up in bodyfat by .6%.
I think only an untrained individual could really get leaner and gain mass at the same time on the NHE or on the anabolic diet.
JJFigure
New member
Sorry - I didn't answer the cardio or ala question. I haven't jumped on the ala boat, so I actually can't answer that question. But as far as cardio, the more kcals I eat, the more intense my cardio is. I was only doing cardio 2-3 times/week, but I was running and pushing the intensity (cause that's the only way I like to run). The fewer kcals I eat, the lower my intensity; mainly because I have no cardio endurance right now.
I don't think you HAVE to do cardio though, when you are on these diet plans. I mainly do cardio to exercise my heart and lungs, not for fat loss. Even now, while in cutting mode, I consider my cardio a more means of keeping my metabolism elevated than a way to lose fat.
I don't think you HAVE to do cardio though, when you are on these diet plans. I mainly do cardio to exercise my heart and lungs, not for fat loss. Even now, while in cutting mode, I consider my cardio a more means of keeping my metabolism elevated than a way to lose fat.
jj, you think eating 6x day ~2400-2700K DAY I CAN LOSE FAT AND GAIN MUSCLE (oops didnt realize cap lock was on). whatchu think about cycling more like bulking/cutting type diet using a 4:3 or 5:2 ratio instead of <30 carbs day and carb loading on tues and sat nite only like im doing now????
also ive been bitchin' about losing muscle well my bi's used to be (before starting this NHE plan) 14 1/2 " now theyre 12". i just measured them today. i totally freaked. even my mom was like "girrl you are so skinny, your face, chest ...what happened?" great i thought im thinking im not giving myself time to put the muscle on
i just dont wanna get any skinnier. mom is not the only one whos commented. arrrgghhh! help!!
also ive been bitchin' about losing muscle well my bi's used to be (before starting this NHE plan) 14 1/2 " now theyre 12". i just measured them today. i totally freaked. even my mom was like "girrl you are so skinny, your face, chest ...what happened?" great i thought im thinking im not giving myself time to put the muscle on
i just dont wanna get any skinnier. mom is not the only one whos commented. arrrgghhh! help!!
JJFigure
New member
Actually, what I meant is you can eat 2400-2700 k/day, gain muscle, and put on minimal fat. I honestly don't believe you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. At best, you can gain muscle and not add fat, or add minimal fat. This is one area where I disagree with Faigin. The only time you MAY be able to add muscle and lose fat is if you are an untrained individual, and I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to you.
IMO, you should bump your kcals and focus on adding muscle.
IMO, you should bump your kcals and focus on adding muscle.
JJFigure
New member
I honestly would not recommend following a very low carb diet plan for life - including NHE. But I also don't recommend constantly trying to lose weight. If you're trying to lose fat, and low carb diets don't wipe you out, then following a low carb diet to achieve that goal is acceptable. However, at a point you should stop trying to lose fat and just try to maintain weight/body composition.
When maintaining, you should be able to increase your carbs - especially your fibrous carbs - and still be able to maintain weight. On a maintenance plan, you should be eating some fruit, lots of veggies, ideally some dairy, and clean complex carbs. If you start putting on too much fat, you can always drop the complex/starchy carbs for a while until you get back to your maintenance weight.
The debatable issue is whether or not to do the NHE bodybuilding plan or Anabolic diet for building muscle. I have been, since I seem to put on muscle faster on this type of diet. However, I'm also going through rigid diet cycles where I'm losing muscle, then I try to put it back on (and add some) before I have to go back into a cutting cycle. If you're not competing, I don't think you have the same issues. Plus, other women on the boards are successfully using more moderate carb intake during their building cycles (Spatts and MS, to name two). Their carb intake is clean though - that's the difference.
When I've gotten the competing bug out of my system, I plan to go back to a moderate carb intake approach. Of course, who knows when that will be.
When maintaining, you should be able to increase your carbs - especially your fibrous carbs - and still be able to maintain weight. On a maintenance plan, you should be eating some fruit, lots of veggies, ideally some dairy, and clean complex carbs. If you start putting on too much fat, you can always drop the complex/starchy carbs for a while until you get back to your maintenance weight.
The debatable issue is whether or not to do the NHE bodybuilding plan or Anabolic diet for building muscle. I have been, since I seem to put on muscle faster on this type of diet. However, I'm also going through rigid diet cycles where I'm losing muscle, then I try to put it back on (and add some) before I have to go back into a cutting cycle. If you're not competing, I don't think you have the same issues. Plus, other women on the boards are successfully using more moderate carb intake during their building cycles (Spatts and MS, to name two). Their carb intake is clean though - that's the difference.
When I've gotten the competing bug out of my system, I plan to go back to a moderate carb intake approach. Of course, who knows when that will be.
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