How important is Fascia stretching?

[calveless wonder]

Something i certainly have neglected over the years....which is silly of me considering how my frame is naturally small and my starting point was very very skinny (and small muscles)

i'm thinking it would help tremendously. anyone do this regularly?

 

[all the whey]

I had a sweet workout with a shit load of hard stretching after every set.

You ever hear of Spider Stretching?

 

[calveless wonder]

I had a sweet workout with a shit load of hard stretching after every set.

You ever hear of Spider Stretching?

nope

 

[all the whey]

nope

I think that is what it was called.lol

ex.

after each chest set. lay on a bench w/light db's (20lbs) streatched down as far as possible for 20 seconds. hurts like a mofo

 

[calveless wonder]

I think that is what it was called.lol

ex.

after each chest set. lay on a bench w/light db's (20lbs) streatched down as far as possible for 20 seconds. hurts like a mofo

yeah, that's what i'm talking about. heard arnold use to do that

 

[all the whey]

yeah, that's what i'm talking about. heard arnold use to do that

Yeah that is it!

It is surprising how much light weight stretched out for 20 seconds hurts.

I swear it helped me bulk up. I am very small framed. But, I put on a lot of size the few yrs I worked in that workout.

 

[swole]

Something i certainly have neglected over the years....which is silly of me considering how my frame is naturally small and my starting point was very very skinny (and small muscles)

i'm thinking it would help tremendously. anyone do this regularly?

i don't stretch before i start my lifting routine, i like to hit the weights cold

but once i have a pump going i stretch in between sets, feels great and i think it helps bring blood to deeper parts of the muscle

 

[WhistleBritches]

It works for lagging groups , especially Bis and Chest

 

[calveless wonder]

i don't stretch before i start my lifting routine, i like to hit the weights cold

but once i have a pump going i stretch in between sets, feels great and i think it helps bring blood to deeper parts of the muscle

that's exactly what i'm talking about. stretching before is not a good idea anyways since your muscles aren't warmed up.

have you always done this?

i think not doing it has been a huge detriment to my routine. I imagine given my frame, starting point from lifting and genetics in general that i probably have tight fascia surrounding my muscles thus limiting growth. pumped to try it!!

 

[*The_West*]

i don't stretch before i start my lifting routine, i like to hit the weights cold

but once i have a pump going i stretch in between sets, feels great and i think it helps bring blood to deeper parts of the muscle

i have heard this before, people saying they prefer not to stretch before lifting. how would this be of benefit?
im too scared to not stretch before, that i'll tear a pec clean off or something lol

 

[WhistleBritches]

ps Yes do it but do it the night before

 

[calveless wonder]

i don't stretch before i start my lifting routine, i like to hit the weights cold

but once i have a pump going i stretch in between sets, feels great and i think it helps bring blood to deeper parts of the muscle

from what i understand when you have a maximum pump is the best time due to the blood already increasing tissue expansion.

 

[GUARDIAN]

Jay cutler swears by it. i think if done regularly after every workout it could provide definite improvements.

 

[swole]

Jay cutler swears by it. i think if done regularly after every workout it could provide definite improvements.

you ever see that youtube vid of jay getting a deep tissue massage

check it out

 

[WhistleBritches]

rigth on Swloe

 

[jackangel]

DC training uses stretching as an integral component. ceo may have something to add.

for now: perhaps this will be useful:

http://www.intensemuscle.com/9041-why-dc-stretch.html

 

[gonelifting]

"NEVER stretch a cold muscle". I'm sure you've heard that before. You need some blood there before stretching it or you may injure yourself.


Have you seen Doggcrap's training routine? He stresses the importance of stretching in his workouts. VERY intense workouts with very intense srtetching of the fascia. He uses weights to stretch with dumbells like posted above and weighted hanging pullups or no weights, I forge. Stuiff l;ike that though. Check it out 'Doggcrap' training. This was a while ago, not sure if he's still around or not. Too intense for me. It was one set each bodypart of exercise. I forget. Good luck

 

[Pat_McCrotch]

you ever see that youtube vid of jay getting a deep tissue massage

check it out

the still shot before you play it looks like a stump. Lie he had his leg cut off.

 

[GUARDIAN]

you ever see that youtube vid of jay getting a deep tissue massage

check it out

did this turn u on? LOL

 

[ceo]

"NEVER stretch a cold muscle". I'm sure you've heard that before. You need some blood there before stretching it or you may injure yourself.


Have you seen Doggcrap's training routine? He stresses the importance of stretching in his workouts. VERY intense workouts with very intense srtetching of the fascia. He uses weights to stretch with dumbells like posted above and weighted hanging pullups or no weights, I forge. Stuiff l;ike that though. Check it out 'Doggcrap' training. This was a while ago, not sure if he's still around or not. Too intense for me. It was one set each bodypart of exercise. I forget. Good luck

Dante (DoggCrapp) is still around. He hangs out over at intensemuscle.

Calveless, check out that link jackangel posted about why to do Extreme Fascia Stretching.

Personally, it has helped my recovery tremendously, helped my flexibility, and I believe has helped make room for growth. In DC training, I don't think one could not do these stretches and still workout with the intensity and frequency that DC requires.

As for stretching cold...don't do an extreme (static) stretch while cold. Personally, I warm up my joints with some rotations (shoulders, elbows, wrists, ride the bike for 5-10 minutes for legs), then I do some warmup sets (~2-4, depending) to get my muscles warm and full of blood and get them used to the weight. Then, I do my working set, and immediately after that I do an extreme fascia stretch for that bodypart I just worked...while it is nice and warm. Also, hold your extreme stretches for at least 60 seconds.

Here's a quote from DoggCrapp on it, "I can’t state this enough--extreme stretching royally sucks!!! Its painful. But I have seen amazing things with people -especially in the quads."

 

[calveless wonder]

fuck...my back workout was AWESOME.

oh man, this stuff rocks.

it burned like a motherfucker, but it's been awhile since i felt that good and pumped. i really think this is gonna bring my progress ahead leaps and bounds given my body type

 

[AAP]

Most definately has helped me tremendously.

I used to get 2 deep tissue massages a week before my friend killed himself. Have not found another therapist as good as he was.

You can also get some serious work going on with a foam roller too.

 

[mustang_00]

i started doing that after reading an article about it on abcbodybuilding... my biceps and my left forearm got deep stretch marks after the 2nd week. i'm growing a little more but i'm fucking pissed!!! thors hammer contributed too. i've been doing that for the last 2 months.

 

[timtim]

been doing the stretch flex for awhile now.

i do 4 to 6 60 second stretches followed by 60 second flexes for chest, back, and shoulders. very effective. i actually posted the same link jackangel did like 2 weeks ago in the training forum for someone else asking about stretching

 

[calveless wonder]

i enjoy this facist stuff

 

[SouthernLord]

I have noticed a huge improvement in chest density and shape since incorporating fascia stretching.

 

[wootoom]

when we planning on going to spain? i have another buddy coming

 

[lartinos]

I'm gonna have to give this a try.

 

[ceo]

John Parillo was a big advocate of extreme fascia stretching directly after a bodypart was trained. He believed it was key for recovery and muscle growth. Here are some guidelines for extreme stretches from Doggcrapp (training):

Chest
Use dumbbells that are a little over half of what your heaviest set of 6-8 reps would be. On a flat bench, with your chest high and lungs full of air, drop down into the deepest fly you can for the first 10 seconds or so, keeping the dumbells close to your body so you feel the stretch in your chest - NOT your shoulders! Staying in this position, arch your back slightly and try to press your sternum upward. The rest of the 60 seconds, try to concentrate on dropping your elbows farther and farther down (the last 15 seconds are excruciating).

Shoulders
This one is tough to describe. Put a barbell in squat rack shoulder height (or use a smith machine). Face away from it and reach back and grab it palms up (hands on bottom of bar). Walk yourself outward until you are on your heels and the stretch gets painful, then roll your shoulders downward and hold for 60 seconds.

Triceps
Seated on a flat bench with your back up against the barbell, take a dumbbell in your hand behind your head (like in an overhead dumbbell extension). Sink the dumbbell down into position for the first 10 seconds and then an agonizing 50 seconds slightly leaning back and pushing the dumbbell down with the back of your head.

Back
I'll quote DC directly on this one: "Honestly for about 3 years my training partner and I would hang a 100lb dumbbell from our waist and hung on the widest chinup bar (with wrist straps) to see who could get closest to 3 minutes--I never made it--I think 2 minutes 27 seconds was my record--but my back width is by far my best body part--I pull on a doorknob or stationary equipment with a rounded back now and it’s way too hard too explain here--just try it and get your feel for it."

Biceps
Just like the position for the shoulder stretch, but hold barbell palms down now (hands on top of bar). Now, either sink down with one leg forward/one leg back or better yet squat down and try (I say try because its absolutely excruciating) to kneel. Go down to the stretch that is almost unbearable and then hold that for 45 to 60 seconds. Your own bodyweight is the load. Put the bar at a place on the squat rack in which you can kneel at a severe stretch and then try to sink your ass down to touch your feet. If its too easy, put the bar up to the next rung.

Hamstrings
Leg up on a high barbell holding your toe and trying to force your leg straight with your free hand for a very painful 60 seconds.

Quads
Facing a barbell in a power rack about hip high, grip it and simultaneously sink down and throw your knees under the barbell and do a sissy squat underneath it while going up on your toes. Then, straighten your arms and lean as far back as you can. 60 seconds and if this one doesn't bring tears to your eyes nothing will. Do this one faithfully and see in 4 weeks if your quads don’t look a lot different than they used to.

Calves
This is straight from Dante too: "My weak body part that I couldn’t get up too par until 2 years ago when I finally thought it out and figured out how to make them grow (with only one set twice a week too). I don’t need to stretch calves after because when I do calves I explode on the positive and take 5 seconds to get back to full stretch and then 15 seconds at the very bottom "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand etc" --15 seconds stretching at the bottom thinking and trying to flex my toes toward my shin--it is absolutely unbearable and you will most likely be shaking and wan to give up at about 7 reps (I always go for 12reps with maximum weights)--do this on a hack squat or a leg press--my calves have finally taken off due to this and caught up to the rest of me thank God."

Here are all the stretches in a collage:
http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=extremestretches66.jpg

Here are all the stretches in a slideshow:
http://img396.imageshack.us/slideshow/player.php?id=img396/4756/1163465404m2r.smil

 

[digimon7068]

i had long, skinny little arms when i was a kid. . .they started growing significantly when i started doing biceps and triceps on the same day. . .actually, i do them at the same time. . .supersets. . .e.g., one set of standing barbell curls, one set of facebreakers. . .back and forth. . .i honestly believe the having both muscles pumped at the same time, stretched out the fascia and allowed me to grow more than i would have otherwise. . .

 

[hardrock]

I stretch each bodypart for 60 seconds after working it. it hurts like a mofo, but aids in recovery and growth. Check out some threads on intense muscle in the dogg pound. It's DC training, but I'd think everyone could benefit from the stretches.

 

[string_bean00]

extreme stretching gives results

 

[mustang_00]

John Parillo was a big advocate of extreme fascia stretching directly after a bodypart was trained. He believed it was key for recovery and muscle growth. Here are some guidelines for extreme stretches from Doggcrapp (training):

Chest
Use dumbbells that are a little over half of what your heaviest set of 6-8 reps would be. On a flat bench, with your chest high and lungs full of air, drop down into the deepest fly you can for the first 10 seconds or so, keeping the dumbells close to your body so you feel the stretch in your chest - NOT your shoulders! Staying in this position, arch your back slightly and try to press your sternum upward. The rest of the 60 seconds, try to concentrate on dropping your elbows farther and farther down (the last 15 seconds are excruciating).

Shoulders
This one is tough to describe. Put a barbell in squat rack shoulder height (or use a smith machine). Face away from it and reach back and grab it palms up (hands on bottom of bar). Walk yourself outward until you are on your heels and the stretch gets painful, then roll your shoulders downward and hold for 60 seconds.

Triceps
Seated on a flat bench with your back up against the barbell, take a dumbbell in your hand behind your head (like in an overhead dumbbell extension). Sink the dumbbell down into position for the first 10 seconds and then an agonizing 50 seconds slightly leaning back and pushing the dumbbell down with the back of your head.

Back
I'll quote DC directly on this one: "Honestly for about 3 years my training partner and I would hang a 100lb dumbbell from our waist and hung on the widest chinup bar (with wrist straps) to see who could get closest to 3 minutes--I never made it--I think 2 minutes 27 seconds was my record--but my back width is by far my best body part--I pull on a doorknob or stationary equipment with a rounded back now and it’s way too hard too explain here--just try it and get your feel for it."

Biceps
Just like the position for the shoulder stretch, but hold barbell palms down now (hands on top of bar). Now, either sink down with one leg forward/one leg back or better yet squat down and try (I say try because its absolutely excruciating) to kneel. Go down to the stretch that is almost unbearable and then hold that for 45 to 60 seconds. Your own bodyweight is the load. Put the bar at a place on the squat rack in which you can kneel at a severe stretch and then try to sink your ass down to touch your feet. If its too easy, put the bar up to the next rung.

Hamstrings
Leg up on a high barbell holding your toe and trying to force your leg straight with your free hand for a very painful 60 seconds.

Quads
Facing a barbell in a power rack about hip high, grip it and simultaneously sink down and throw your knees under the barbell and do a sissy squat underneath it while going up on your toes. Then, straighten your arms and lean as far back as you can. 60 seconds and if this one doesn't bring tears to your eyes nothing will. Do this one faithfully and see in 4 weeks if your quads don’t look a lot different than they used to.

Calves
This is straight from Dante too: "My weak body part that I couldn’t get up too par until 2 years ago when I finally thought it out and figured out how to make them grow (with only one set twice a week too). I don’t need to stretch calves after because when I do calves I explode on the positive and take 5 seconds to get back to full stretch and then 15 seconds at the very bottom "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand etc" --15 seconds stretching at the bottom thinking and trying to flex my toes toward my shin--it is absolutely unbearable and you will most likely be shaking and wan to give up at about 7 reps (I always go for 12reps with maximum weights)--do this on a hack squat or a leg press--my calves have finally taken off due to this and caught up to the rest of me thank God."

Here are all the stretches in a collage:
http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=extremestretches66.jpg

Here are all the stretches in a slideshow:
http://img396.imageshack.us/slideshow/player.php?id=img396/4756/1163465404m2r.smil

does anyone else feel the tricep stretch in their bicep??? like a god awful pump before it cramps?? haha

 

[ceo]

There are some alternate stretches. If you're creative, you may come up with some yourself. For triceps, some have had luck doing something setup similar to the shoulder stretch with a barbell or smith machine, but gripping it overhand with your feet planted fairly well back behind the bar, and then easing your body down almost like you were about to hang from the bar but letting your triceps catch the weight, thus stretching them. You're leaning into and under the bar. Hard to describe some of these but easier to show.

Some people do the tricep stretch using a low pulley too. Use your imagination(s)!

 

[calveless wonder]

i did chest today.

i've never had such a pumped up chest in my life.

i fuckin love it

facist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the pain makes you want to train even harder

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Extreme stretching of fascia leads to herniations. I doubt that anything Parillo did truly stretched fascia enough to deform it. It was likely just a gimick to differentiate his theories from pre-existing theories and sell article and books. The most flexible yogists I've seen are much less muscular than bodybuilders. If the yogist's fascia isn't overstretched I doubt a bodybuilder using the same plane of motion, yet far less range is stretching his or hers. If the stretching does by chance deform fascia, it produces no visible cosmetic end result.

 

[calveless wonder]

Extreme stretching of fascia leads to herniations. I doubt that anything Parillo did truly stretched fascia enough to deform it. It was likely just a gimick to differentiate his theories from pre-existing theories and sell article and books. The most flexible yogists I've seen are much less muscular than bodybuilders. If the yogist's fascia isn't overstretched I doubt a bodybuilder using the same plane of motion, yet far less range is stretching his or hers. If the stretching does by chance deform fascia, it produces no visible cosmetic end result.

Of course yogists are skinny........that's not going to do anything in itself. They don't train or eat the way bodybuilders do. so that point is completely irrelevant

the point of it and the theory is that tight or inflexible fascia can deter muscle growth.and given the feedback, its helped alot of people

i also suppose jay cutler has no idea what he's talking about?

 

[SouthernLord]

does anyone else feel the tricep stretch in their bicep??? like a god awful pump before it cramps?? haha

This stretch kills my shoulders. I like the stretch CEO explained as an alternative a lot better. You basically grip the bar with your hands thumb width apart and lower your self down like a bodyweight skull crusher. The racked barbell should be behind your head when in the fully stretched position. This one kills my tris.

 

[timtim]

Extreme stretching of fascia leads to herniations. I doubt that anything Parillo did truly stretched fascia enough to deform it. It was likely just a gimick to differentiate his theories from pre-existing theories and sell article and books. The most flexible yogists I've seen are much less muscular than bodybuilders. If the yogist's fascia isn't overstretched I doubt a bodybuilder using the same plane of motion, yet far less range is stretching his or hers. If the stretching does by chance deform fascia, it produces no visible cosmetic end result.

if you havent tried it then you really cant say what it does or doesnt do. the stretch combined with the flex has added density to all of my body parts and people have noticed. very effective in my opinion.

 

[mustang_00]

This stretch kills my shoulders. I like the stretch CEO explained as an alternative a lot better. You basically grip the bar with your hands thumb width apart and lower your self down like a bodyweight skull crusher. The racked barbell should be behind your head when in the fully stretched position. This one kills my tris.

i'd like to know more ways to stretch your tri's!! i think this will help me out alot considering one of my tri's is bigger than the other one. so far i've only really done it with chest/biceps/forearms. i love it aside from the stretch marks. no idea why they pop up so damn fast

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

if you havent tried it then you really cant say what it does or doesnt do. the stretch combined with the flex has added density to all of my body parts and people have noticed. very effective in my opinion.

I can tell you what lots of things do that I have never done. I can tell you how a car engine runs, yet I've never filled myself with gasoline and driven myself down the highway.

I wouldn't doubt that you may get some physiological effect from stretching, but you aren't deforming fascia. I never said the protocol did nothing, I said that the protocol doesn't stretch fascia. If you are concluding that by getting results from stretching, you are deforming fascia I disagree.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Of course yogists are skinny........that's not going to do anything in itself. They don't train or eat the way bodybuilders do. so that point is completely irrelevant

the point of it and the theory is that tight or inflexible fascia can deter muscle growth.and given the feedback, its helped alot of people

i also suppose jay cutler has no idea what he's talking about?

Fascia is inflexible. That's why stretching it leads to herniations. You implied in your bodybuilding protocol that this alleged fascial stretching leads to increased muscle size, so in that respect yogis do train like bodybuilders and are generally not muscular.

How do these guys determine that they are stretching their fascia? I would guess in this respect Jay Cuttler doesn't know what he is talking about as I doubt he is physically stretching fascia with movements. If he knows that this stretching protocol specifically leads to fascia deformation, where did he get this answer? I would like to see evidence that stretching in this manner leads to fascia deformation. I'm not asking whether Jay Cuttler has any idea what he's talking about. I'm asking for evidence that fascia is being stretched.

I've seen the results of fascia deformation on muscle shape. It doesn't look cosmetically desirable. The muscle loses it's natural shape and becomes crested and peaked at odd locations.

 

[AAP]

Stretching the fascia doesn't lead directly to muscle growth but it can ALLOW muscle growth to take place. Just the opposite of what a fascia that is too tight will do (inhibit growth)

 

[ceo]

Stretching the fascia doesn't lead directly to muscle growth but it can ALLOW muscle growth to take place. Just the opposite of what a fascia that is too tight will do (inhibit growth)

exactly!

Jacob:
There was a study done about this on birds that showed it was effective (yeah I know, they're birds). There's also a few thousand people doing (or that have done) DC training that would disagree that fascia cannot be stretched (but you obviously know fascia CAN be stretched, because after you told us that it can't be, you said you've seen the results of stretched fascia).

Furthermore, those same few thousand people would also disagree that properly stretched fascia results in deformed muscle shape.

If fascia couldn't be stretched, how would anyone get as big as these 250+lb'ers on stage?

 

[timtim]

Stretching the fascia doesn't lead directly to muscle growth but it can ALLOW muscle growth to take place. Just the opposite of what a fascia that is too tight will do (inhibit growth)

this was exactly my point.