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napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
Research Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsResearch Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic

Hi ladies I'm new with a few questions.

so then you are saying that a basic eca stack is good to start on? Also have IN YOUR OPINION is lipodrene not a good product to take. i appreciate you letting me know about the synephrine I'll definitely lookup more info. Its just so hard to find a starting point and there is so much info to absorb (luckily I enjoy learning about it) lol. Thanks so much for even taking the time to read these.
 

To make it a little more simple:
Ephedrine - 25 mg (get Bronkaid at Walgreen's in the pharmacy)
Caffeine - 200 mg
Asprin - 325 mg (this is MY dose, some go MUCH lower)
Yohimbe HCL - 5 mg (this is optional)

This is a bit of a long read - but if you really want to know what ECA does.........here you go.



Ephedrine works by stimulating the release of noradrenaline, which stimulates all the adrenergic receptors. The stimulant side effects subside because they are primarily mediated by the beta-1 and beta-2 receptors, which downregulate during chronic use. Previous thought was that catecholamines mobilize energy-rich lipids by stimulating lipolysis in fat cells and thermogenesis in brown adipose tissue and skeletal muscle. Originally, these effects were believed to be only mediated by (beta)1- and (beta)2-adrenergic receptors. However there is also an additional adrenergic receptor, (beta)3, that is involved as well. Pharmacologically, the (beta)3-adrenergic receptor differs from the (beta)1- and (beta)2-adrenergic receptors in two important ways (2): it has a lower affinity for catecholamines, and it resists desensitization (i.e., down-regulation).

In the past scientists screened drugs for their thermogenic potential, and during tests on non-selective adrenergic drugs like ephedrine, some studies showed that the thermogenic effect of ephedrine was maintained and even increased with long term use. It was found that agonists for post-synaptic adrenoceptors were found to be much less effective in chronically enhancing thermogenesis and fat losses than sympathetic stimulants capable of increasing the synaptic levels of noradrenaline. As we all know studies done have shown that that a combination of ephedrine (20 mg) and caffeine (200 mg) taken orally three times a day in combination with a low calorie diet improves weight loss for 24 weeks. However what is not noted in most articles or literature about ECA is that the combination can maintain or slightly improve weight loss during treatment from the time after 26 weeks.

This discovery led to further studies in the hopes of uncovering an undiscovered receptor involved in noradrenaline-induced thermogenesis. The scientists found that even after blocking all the known adrenergic receptors non-selective drugs like ephedrine still caused a significant thermogenic effect. Eventually, this led to the discovery of the beta 3 receptor that, as mentioned above is more resistant to downregulation than the other beta receptors. This is why the thermogenic effect of ECA is maintained so well during long term use. This discovery effectively shows that cycling of ECA is simply wrong.

Now I'm going to explain just why the thermogenic effects of ECA actually increase with long term use. I really only need two words. Brown Fat.

Brown fat (adipose) tissue is sometimes mistaken for a type of gland, which it resembles more than white adipose tissue. It varies in color from dark red to tan, reflecting lipid content. Its lipid reserves are depleted when the animal is exposed to a cold environment, and the color darkens. In contrast to white fat, brown fat is richly vascularized and has numerous unmyelinated nerves which provide sympathetic stimulation to the adipocytes. Brown fat is of particular importance in cold environments, and animals that hibernate, because it has the ability to dissipate stored energy as heat. In contrast to other cells, including white adipocytes, brown adipocytes express mitochondrial uncoupling protein, which gives the cell's mitochondria an ability to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation and utilize substrates to generate heat rather than ATP. Exposure to cold leads to sympathetic stimulation of brown adipocyte via norepinephrine binding to beta- adrenergic receptors. As in white fat, sympathetic stimulation promotes hydrolysis of triglyceride, with release of fatty acids and glycerol. However, within brown adipocytes, most fatty acids are immediately oxidized in mitochondria and, because of the uncoupling protein, a large amount of heat is produced. This process is part of what is called non-shivering thermogenesis.

Beta-3 receptor sites are found predominantly in brown adipose tissue. We know that rats and mice have large areas of fat that are exclusively made of brown fat to help them regulate their body temperature, in the interscapular region and the axillae, and minor amounts are found near the thymus and in the dorsal midline region of the thorax and abdomen. During maturation, in non-hibernating animals, brown adipose tissue is metabolically less active, although cold exposure can activate it. Newborn human babies have distinct areas of brown fat. Adult humans though don't have a lot of distinct brown fat. However the key with brown adipose tissue in adults, is that it is scattered about the more common white fat in a diffuse manner - especially around the viscera, and that each of these small deposits of brown fat actually adds up to a large amount. The beta-3 receptor found in brown fat is responsible for burning off fat in the midsection of the body.

Long term use of the ECA stack does lead to beta-2 downregulation. It does not cause rapid desensitization and/or down-regulation of adrenergic receptors, however after about 4 months it will cause the beta-2 receptors on muscle and fat cells will be drawn into the cell membrane to reduce their availability. This is the cause of the loss of stimulatory effects associated with the ECA stack. However, thermogenesis is actually increasing through beta-3 receptor stimulation.



References:
Astrup A, Lundsgaard C, Madsen J, Christensen NJ "Enhanced thermogenic responsiveness during chronic ephedrine treatment in man" Am J Clin Nutr 1985, Vol 42 (1), Pg 83-94, PMID: 0004014068.

Dulloo, AG "Ephedrine, xanthines and prostaglandin-inhibitors: actions and interactions in the stimulation of thermogenesis." Int J Obes 1993 Feb, Vol 17 (Suppl 1), Pg S35-40, PMID: 0008384178.

P. Marin, B. Anderson, M. Ottoson, et al, "The Morphology and Metabolism of Intraabdominal Fat in Men," Metabolism 41 (1992) : 1242-1248.

Rosenbaum M, Malbon CC, Hirsch J, Leibel RL. Lack of beta 3-adrenergic effect on lipolysis in human subcutaneous adipose tissue. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1993 Aug;77(2):352-355




 
okay thank you so much for the input. I found this nutrition store that sells caffeine pills, and I have the bronkaid and baby aspirin so I should be alright. Can you buy yohimbine or does it have to be ordered on the internet like pure ephedrine hcl?
 
okay thank you so much for the input. I found this nutrition store that sells caffeine pills, and I have the bronkaid and baby aspirin so I should be alright. Can you buy yohimbine or does it have to be ordered on the internet like pure ephedrine hcl?

you can get caffeine and yohimbe hcl at the bodybuilding.com store. Make sure the yohimbe says HCL.

You don't have to order ephedrine on the internet. You can get it at Walgreen's in the pharmacy for about $14. It's pure ephedrine (not herbal). Bronkaid and ephedrine are the same thing.

Hope that helps.
 
I just got some at the nutrition company and he told me the same thing lol. Make sure sure its hcl the ones I got were 2.5 mg, but he said to just start with 1 in my stack. That seems kind of low doesn't it?
 
do you recomend taking my stacks before or after my meals. I know if I am doing a morning workout I would take it like 30 mins before that, but what about for lunch etc...
 
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