Have you ever unexpectedly bonded with or really helped out a homeless person?

[calveless wonder]

^----subprime exists in all facets of finance. to say they shouldn't exist in 1 sector is ignorant. The risk just needs to be mitigated more effectively. And to point out that subprime loans were the sole reason for the real estate crash is also uninformed. While they had a large effect, spec investing and overdevelopment was just as much to blame.

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

What constitutes subprime is a very broad term. You can make 300k a year and only have 80k a year of revolving debt and still have a non prime credit score because of a previous bankruptcy/foreclosure or judgement that was satisfied. as well as a variety of other reasons.

Ignorant people with no knowledge of finance tend to assume "oh because they have bad credit, that means it's an opportunity to gouge them and exploit them". No, it's a very straight forward statistical analysis of the risk being assumed and how to mitigate losses based on default rates. Higher risk, higher interest rate. What constitutes those loans was the problem as well as the structure of the secondary market. Not the broad concept

 

[shirlene29]

^----subprime exists in all facets of finance. to say they shouldn't exist in 1 sector is ignorant. The risk just needs to be mitigated more effectively. And to point out that subprime loans were the sole reason for the real estate crash is also uninformed. While they had a large effect, spec investing and overdevelopment was just as much to blame.

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

What constitutes subprime is a very broad term. You can make 300k a year and only have 80k a year of revolving debt and still have a non prime credit score because of a previous bankruptcy/foreclosure or judgement that was satisfied. as well as a variety of other reasons.

Ignorant people with no knowledge of finance tend to assume "oh because they have bad credit, that means it's an opportunity to gouge them and exploit them". No, it's a very straight forward statistical analysis of the risk being assumed and how to mitigate losses based on default rates. Higher risk, higher interest rate. What constitutes those loans was the problem as well as the structure of the secondary market. Not the broad concept

a few thoughts from this thread in no specific order

the ex husband bought a home (with my twenty percent down and closing costs) through countrywide...to his credit (no pun) he refinanced through a local credit union 2 years later and his home is still not underwater..its a miracle , but still, he couldnt of done it w/o major mitigating factors(subprime lending and my large down payment)

the subprime thing really only exploded in this state in really terrible areas where the real estate should have been dozed well before bad mortgages with shitty terms came along

helping someone homeless or otherwise...why yes, yes I have..Ive been sprayed by hiv and hep b infected blood helping the homeless and other less fortunate people but that's my nature my motto is " i fix"
I also got burned so many times by people financially when I owned rental real estate Ive grown a much thicker skin and usually am better at spotting why someone got themselves into bad circumstances and stay away unless I listen to your story...and really listen

homeless combat vets...yeah, they do actually exist.. the va is so full of fucking red tape you cant even imagine so some never actually get help, never mind the filth some vets are subjected to in va's...I wouldnt make rats live in some of them.

java has always been a prick, its amusing to me someone on here needs to feel personally attacked to see this

 

[mrplunkey]

I helped a homeless guy named Rodney <Last Name Omitted> about three years ago. It's a long story how we met and qualified him for help, but we essentially did an experiment. We rented him a very small but livable apartment. We made several runs to WalMart with him to buy food, clothes and household items. We lined him up with local downtown businesses (we lived out West) to help him wash his clothes and even to find a job.

So here was his deal: Any dollar he earned, I would match. And if he held a job, I'd continue to pay his rent and pay for a pre-paid cell phone bill.

He tried to work for about a two to three weeks, then quit his job because it didn't pay enough. Then he let the apartment run down into total squalor. We stopped paying rent and last I heard he was back out on the streets.

I'm sure there are people who can use the help, but don't kid yourself that even 1/3 of street people even want help.

 

[nangiggles]

^----subprime exists in all facets of finance. to say they shouldn't exist in 1 sector is ignorant. The risk just needs to be mitigated more effectively. And to point out that subprime loans were the sole reason for the real estate crash is also uninformed. While they had a large effect, spec investing and overdevelopment was just as much to blame.

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

What constitutes subprime is a very broad term. You can make 300k a year and only have 80k a year of revolving debt and still have a non prime credit score because of a previous bankruptcy/foreclosure or judgement that was satisfied. as well as a variety of other reasons.

Ignorant people with no knowledge of finance tend to assume "oh because they have bad credit, that means it's an opportunity to gouge them and exploit them". No, it's a very straight forward statistical analysis of the risk being assumed and how to mitigate losses based on default rates. Higher risk, higher interest rate. What constitutes those loans was the problem as well as the structure of the secondary market. Not the broad concept

I fucking WISH I could get a car loan with a 10% APR.... NO ONE will lend me for a car...home, not even a fucking best buy card, I have ghost/no credit, it's not bad... it ANGERS me the way I'm treated about it, it's not like I did something bad to deserve it and whenever I apply for anything I get told no because I have no debt... awesome huh.... I'm gonna have to get a secured card that at least reports but lets get serious that doesnt do shit... I cant buy a damn lollipop if I dont have a damn cosigner....

 

[jnevin]

^----subprime exists in all facets of finance. to say they shouldn't exist in 1 sector is ignorant. The risk just needs to be mitigated more effectively. And to point out that subprime loans were the sole reason for the real estate crash is also uninformed. While they had a large effect, spec investing and overdevelopment was just as much to blame.

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

What constitutes subprime is a very broad term. You can make 300k a year and only have 80k a year of revolving debt and still have a non prime credit score because of a previous bankruptcy/foreclosure or judgement that was satisfied. as well as a variety of other reasons.

Ignorant people with no knowledge of finance tend to assume "oh because they have bad credit, that means it's an opportunity to gouge them and exploit them". No, it's a very straight forward statistical analysis of the risk being assumed and how to mitigate losses based on default rates. Higher risk, higher interest rate. What constitutes those loans was the problem as well as the structure of the secondary market. Not the broad concept

This is really what did it. People with perfect credit were the ones that were doing this because of their ability to put little to nothing down and do fast & easy (Countrywide product) loans. If you had little to nothing to put down on a home you could have the down payment and closing costs gifted to you by going through a "non-profit" service that allowed it to qualify through conforming guidelines. Funny thing was, internally CW loans weren't allowing these organizations to be used, but brokering through CW they were. CW reps actually had these guys come with them when they'd do continuing ed classes showing brokers how they could expand their business. The subprime borrowers I dealt with for the most part were people that had a Bk for legit reasons like a kid being sick, self employed went wrong and they went back to W-2 work, and had paid their shit up but still had low scores. The problem is now that people that are almost overqualified can't better their position because they're in dire straights and would have to be in foreclosure to get some relief.

 

[kx250rider]

how many people on this forum right now have a car note with an interest rate about 10%? Should they be denied financing completely because they don't have a 700 credit score?

Alternative non conforming credit will and always has existed in america for the past 70 years. And while it was clear that certain programs need to be eliminated and guidelines tightened, to say "subprime" shouldn't exist in any capacity is shutting out a majority of america for opportunities to own a reliable or home. At the same time, people shouldn't (and won't be) handing out blind checks without proper qualification.

The smart thing to do would be to buy a $5000 used car, and have no note, rather than to put $5000 down on a $25,000 car with 10% interest. I've been at many income levels in my short but long 43 years, and when I had only $500 for a vehicle, I bought a $500 VW Rabbit. No loans. I know I'm speaking the extreme, but I'm trying to make a point. My wife has never had a car loan in her life, and the whole key is patience. Think about this for a minute: You pay for a $25,000 car for 5 years (or God knows longer with some of these creative loans)... At 10% compounded annually, that's more than $12,500 in interest, assuming your payments are principal and interest from the beginning. Grand total for the $25,000 car = at least $37,500. Now reverse it: Invest the same $625 per month that you would have paid on that car loan, in a mutual fund in stead, assuming you get a decent rate like 3% in today's market, you will have $38,625 in cash. Now buy a $25,000 car, and put that extra $13,625 in the bank.

Charles

 

[samoth]

Java wasn't trying to be a prick, he just brought up a psychological counterpoint to the OP. We have usernames, and e-reps that go with them (especially after tens of thousands of posts). The financial collapse thing is everywhere now, so it's not exactly an esoteric issue. I think it turned into an interesting, debate-provoking thread... and we don't seem to have many of them nowadays.

I'd much rather read a Java/PM/CW/Jnev back-and-fourth than hear generic, predictable bum stories.

And to the dude who said under 50 is young: you're old. Just come to grips with it, man. It's okay, really.

 

[nefertiti]

I helped a homeless guy named Rodney <Last Name Omitted> about three years ago. It's a long story how we met and qualified him for help, but we essentially did an experiment. We rented him a very small but livable apartment. We made several runs to WalMart with him to buy food, clothes and household items. We lined him up with local downtown businesses (we lived out West) to help him wash his clothes and even to find a job.

So here was his deal: Any dollar he earned, I would match. And if he held a job, I'd continue to pay his rent and pay for a pre-paid cell phone bill.

He tried to work for about a two to three weeks, then quit his job because it didn't pay enough. Then he let the apartment run down into total squalor. We stopped paying rent and last I heard he was back out on the streets.

I'm sure there are people who can use the help, but don't kid yourself that even 1/3 of street people even want help.

I'd be surprised if 1/3 of street people have the mental health to hold stable jobs. I've come across more than my fair share through volunteer work and various other means and a large portion are clearly mentally ill and either self medicate with drugs/alcohol, or just let the crazy run free.

I'm not saying this excuses anything, or that this should pull a cynics heartstrings. But I honestly don't think many of those people are even capable of being any other way, not once they are that far gone. I've never attempted to pull anyone out of the squalor, though I've certainly been tempted. But it costs me nothing to show some compassion, and very little to buy a sound meal.

When I was younger and lived in manhattan (before the giuliani days, when homeless people were all over the place), I had an experience on the subway that changed my perspective for the rest of my life. I still remember it like it was yesterday, but I couldn't have been more than 10. I was standing in a crowded car with my father, and a man came in and started singing for money. I was so embarrassed for him, I stared at my feet, the person in front of me, the wall, anything but him as he walked by. Later that day I tossed a bunch of change into a fountain that had been weighing down my pockets and a thought came into my head, "He could have used that to buy food." I was so ashamed of myself. Not for not giving him the money, so much, but for refusing to even looking at him - like if I didn't look, I could pretend he wasn't there, sharing his desperation and humiliation with everyone on that subway. I don't think since that day I've ever felt so much shame at something i'd done. I realize that's going to seem really freaking stupid to a lot of people, but I was a deep kid.

No joke, ever since that day, I will make eye contact with every single begger or homeless person who looks my way, even if it is to apologize and say I can't give them money. I'll probably be making amends to the subway car guy for the rest of my life, just by doing at least that.

 

[nefertiti]

Bah. Reading that I feel like a reh-tard. I'm not some bastion of altruism or anything. I've just never been able to shake this issue from my heart.

 

[nangiggles]

Bah. Reading that I feel like a reh-tard. I'm not some bastion of altruism or anything. I've just never been able to shake this issue from my heart.

Honestly it's a very nice story, I guarantee your average kid wouldnt have even thought of that, kudos to you Nef