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Has anyone used dutasteride 2 or more pills a day?
- Thread starter LoneTree
- Start date
i woudl def advise against that.
What increased effect would you hope for?
The purpose of those drugs is purely to block DHT.. which in all reality you want to block as little as possible but still have the drug be effective. Continuing to drive down your DHT would only have negative consequences
What increased effect would you hope for?
The purpose of those drugs is purely to block DHT.. which in all reality you want to block as little as possible but still have the drug be effective. Continuing to drive down your DHT would only have negative consequences
LoneTree said:
I would be REALLY concerned about the negative consequences of a dose that high...
Look at it this way... IF we were ONLY studying hair loss... raising estrogen and lowering test below male levels would work best, right? Essentially if we turned into women.
Point being, the study is very specific, and unfortunately the hormonal side effects are of no consideration in that study.
I would be very concerned at a dose that high.... but thats just me, and of course i am not an expert
I'll chime in here because ive used Dutasteride in the past, and battling with side effects from it.
I only took 0.5mg every other day, and got sides such as a bloated face, which really killed my good looks while i was on it, i got some joint pain, i felt kind of foggy, and i was tired all the time. Im 22 years old so mabye that has something to do with it, but 2 pills per day of Avodart might give you some serious side effects, so mabye try 1 pill per day or every other day. Its VERY powerfull stuff.
Yes the study shows the 2.5mg grew the most hair, but not that much more than taking 0.5mg ( 1 pill ) daily, and even taking it every other day should be very close in terms of results. It has a very long half life once it fully builds up in your system ( about 3 months of use ). Also, the study was done on all older people, like 40-65 years old or something like that, so nobody knows the effects it may have on people younger than that.
I would definetly take AIMF or something while taking Dutasteride, to battle the sides of increased estrogen that Dutasteride causes.
I only took 0.5mg every other day, and got sides such as a bloated face, which really killed my good looks while i was on it, i got some joint pain, i felt kind of foggy, and i was tired all the time. Im 22 years old so mabye that has something to do with it, but 2 pills per day of Avodart might give you some serious side effects, so mabye try 1 pill per day or every other day. Its VERY powerfull stuff.
Yes the study shows the 2.5mg grew the most hair, but not that much more than taking 0.5mg ( 1 pill ) daily, and even taking it every other day should be very close in terms of results. It has a very long half life once it fully builds up in your system ( about 3 months of use ). Also, the study was done on all older people, like 40-65 years old or something like that, so nobody knows the effects it may have on people younger than that.
I would definetly take AIMF or something while taking Dutasteride, to battle the sides of increased estrogen that Dutasteride causes.
All human studies are approved by FDA.
Before human trials are allowed, a drug has to be shown safe by animal studies.
There are 3 phases of human trials conducted before a drug is approved:
Phase 1 trial: Only about safety. These trials are conducted on human volunteers or relatively healthy patients.
Phase 2 trial: About efficacy in actual patients.
Phase 3 trial: A realistic trial in the circumstances that the drug would be actually used. Most of the information that you see about the drugs is collected from this phase.
Phase 4 trials are post-marketing trails conducted after a drug is approved and is being used.
All trials (except for animal and phase 4 trials) are pre-approved by FDA based on the information collected from the previous trials. Patient safety is the number one concern of FDA.
All medical institutions appoint a panel of experts who review and consider all the aspects of any study to be conducted, including ethical aspects, and give approval before any study can be started.
All those side effects you mentioned were most likely not caused by Avodart. Many of those side effects are VERY common with AAS.
My concern would be decreased libido and possibly decreased muscle mass. The incidence of decreased libido with 2.5 mg Avodart was not more than 5%. Even very strong anti-androgens used in cancer treatment do not cause significant decrease in muscle mass.
There are at least two isoenzymes of 5-alpha reductase (type I and II). They are both found in scalp, skin and prostate. There is no definite information available about the isoenzyme active in muscle tissue.
Before human trials are allowed, a drug has to be shown safe by animal studies.
There are 3 phases of human trials conducted before a drug is approved:
Phase 1 trial: Only about safety. These trials are conducted on human volunteers or relatively healthy patients.
Phase 2 trial: About efficacy in actual patients.
Phase 3 trial: A realistic trial in the circumstances that the drug would be actually used. Most of the information that you see about the drugs is collected from this phase.
Phase 4 trials are post-marketing trails conducted after a drug is approved and is being used.
All trials (except for animal and phase 4 trials) are pre-approved by FDA based on the information collected from the previous trials. Patient safety is the number one concern of FDA.
All medical institutions appoint a panel of experts who review and consider all the aspects of any study to be conducted, including ethical aspects, and give approval before any study can be started.
All those side effects you mentioned were most likely not caused by Avodart. Many of those side effects are VERY common with AAS.
My concern would be decreased libido and possibly decreased muscle mass. The incidence of decreased libido with 2.5 mg Avodart was not more than 5%. Even very strong anti-androgens used in cancer treatment do not cause significant decrease in muscle mass.
There are at least two isoenzymes of 5-alpha reductase (type I and II). They are both found in scalp, skin and prostate. There is no definite information available about the isoenzyme active in muscle tissue.
LoneTree, sorry to burst your bubble but those side effects WERE absolutely 110% due to the Dutasteride because i have never used AAS in my life, and i tested this over and over a few times. You may not get them and i hope you dont, but unfortunately i did, and a bunch of other people i know got them too.
Reducing DHT can cause all of those side effects, and ive tried a whole bunch of times testing, and re-testing with Dutasteride, and Finesteride, and i always get the same stupid side effects. Its especially bad for me because im only 22, and i an naturally strong, lean, and have pretty nice muscle mass, i always have energy,ect. When trying Dutasteride and Finesteride in only takes me 2 days to get bloating from it, then i always feel tired,ect, and my face looks like shit, and the sides get worse over time.
Now that im off those drugs, and my hormones returned to normal, my facial bloating is gone, i have tons more energy, my face looks a lot better, my facial skin looks better, i feel normal and healthy again. It sucks that lowering DHT with these drugs has this effect on me, but it does. AIMF didnt even get rid of my facial bloating due to Dutasteride.
But i had no problems with reduced muscle mass, becuase i do a very physical job full time, and my forarms actually looked like they got a bit bigger, because im lifting a ton, and they are already pretty big naturally. So i wouldnt worry about that. When i was using Dutasteride with AIMF, when working my arms would look pretty jacked. But my energy and stamina levels were shit, and my recovery aswell. I also didnt really get sexual side effects cause ive always had a very strong sex drive,ect. My facial and body hair were increased a lot when on Dutasteride, its funny because people think reduced DHT should mean less body hair.
Also, dont beleive those 5% figures from the study, because many Doctors including mine, say its more like 20-25% who get side effects. And again those were all older people like above 45 years old and up, who already have a lower sex drive,ect. Ive done tons of reading on hairloss forums, and its like half of the people get side effects, and the other half dont, but lots of kids in their 20's are using these drugs.
I personally wouldnt worry about sexual side effects and muscle loss, because even though Dutasteride raises estrogen by about 20-25%, it also raises testosterone by the same amount, so that should give you an advantage in terms of puttin on muscle. If your body fat % is really low, i would think that the increase in estrogen would be even lower. What i would worry about is possible joint pain, worse recovery time, less aggresiveness, and energy. But since your taking AAS you may not have a problem with this.
The only way to know is to try it for yourself, but seriously i would only try 1 or 2 pills max per day because beleive me this shit is STRONG stuff! If you arent on any AAS i would just use 1 pill per day, and when your on AAS if your worried use 2 pills per day. The half life is a lot shorter when it hasnt reached steady state levels in your blood stream, so if you notice side effects in the beginning, it should only take about 3-5 days to get out of your system.
Reducing DHT can cause all of those side effects, and ive tried a whole bunch of times testing, and re-testing with Dutasteride, and Finesteride, and i always get the same stupid side effects. Its especially bad for me because im only 22, and i an naturally strong, lean, and have pretty nice muscle mass, i always have energy,ect. When trying Dutasteride and Finesteride in only takes me 2 days to get bloating from it, then i always feel tired,ect, and my face looks like shit, and the sides get worse over time.
Now that im off those drugs, and my hormones returned to normal, my facial bloating is gone, i have tons more energy, my face looks a lot better, my facial skin looks better, i feel normal and healthy again. It sucks that lowering DHT with these drugs has this effect on me, but it does. AIMF didnt even get rid of my facial bloating due to Dutasteride.
But i had no problems with reduced muscle mass, becuase i do a very physical job full time, and my forarms actually looked like they got a bit bigger, because im lifting a ton, and they are already pretty big naturally. So i wouldnt worry about that. When i was using Dutasteride with AIMF, when working my arms would look pretty jacked. But my energy and stamina levels were shit, and my recovery aswell. I also didnt really get sexual side effects cause ive always had a very strong sex drive,ect. My facial and body hair were increased a lot when on Dutasteride, its funny because people think reduced DHT should mean less body hair.
Also, dont beleive those 5% figures from the study, because many Doctors including mine, say its more like 20-25% who get side effects. And again those were all older people like above 45 years old and up, who already have a lower sex drive,ect. Ive done tons of reading on hairloss forums, and its like half of the people get side effects, and the other half dont, but lots of kids in their 20's are using these drugs.
I personally wouldnt worry about sexual side effects and muscle loss, because even though Dutasteride raises estrogen by about 20-25%, it also raises testosterone by the same amount, so that should give you an advantage in terms of puttin on muscle. If your body fat % is really low, i would think that the increase in estrogen would be even lower. What i would worry about is possible joint pain, worse recovery time, less aggresiveness, and energy. But since your taking AAS you may not have a problem with this.
The only way to know is to try it for yourself, but seriously i would only try 1 or 2 pills max per day because beleive me this shit is STRONG stuff! If you arent on any AAS i would just use 1 pill per day, and when your on AAS if your worried use 2 pills per day. The half life is a lot shorter when it hasnt reached steady state levels in your blood stream, so if you notice side effects in the beginning, it should only take about 3-5 days to get out of your system.
Actually you dont really know because Dutasteride hasnt been around and been studied for 15-20 ++ years like Finesteride has. You dont know what the potential side effects can bring from inhibiting type 1 DHT, which is found in the brain.
Finasteride has a biological model and dutasteride does not. This quite simply means that there is much more safety data on Propecia than Avodart right now. The effects of 5AR type 2 deficiency, (the same environment Propecia creates) have been thoroughly studied for over 25 years in a group of patients in the Dominican Republic. The long-term "side effects" are no hair loss, and no prostate cancer. Patients with genetic 5AR-2 deficiency have no life-threatening disorders and there is no 5AR-2 present in their brain tissue. Conversely, there is no biological model for 5AR type 1 deficiency, which Avodart creates, and there are measurable levels of 5AR-1 in the human brain. Conclusion -- the blockage of 5AR-1 may have yet unknown neurological implications.
And like i said the only way to know is to try for yourself. I know what i know based on reading massive amounts of Dutasteride users feedback, aswell as my own, a couple people i personally know who are quite normal and healthy, and reading studies of the functions of DHT in the body,ect. I wuldnt put all my faith in the FDA, we all know about vioxx, and lots of other drugs that are getting pulled of the market that they claimed were safe. The side effects are definetly way over the 5% mark, and they havent even listed obvious side effects from it, probabbly because people over 40 have already a higher estrogen to testosterone ratio, and already have lower energy and strength levels, libido,ect. They have never tested Avodart on young males, like they have with Finesteride. Ive studied the hormonal effects that Dutasteride causes, which is basically a high estrogen to testosterone environment, and this is a disaster. If your 40 years old you may not notice to much of a difference, but i sure as hell did. My doctor wouldnt even take propecia because he said you need DHT for other functions in the body.
Bottom line is, if your taking Dutasteride its a crap shoot. If you want try 0.5mg per day, and if you dont get any side effects, then you can go for 2 per day. I would definetly use 1 pump of AIMF per day while on Dutasteride because it personally helped me a bit with some of the side effects i for from Dutasteride, mostly helped out with energy and strength. Quitting Dutasteride was by far the best solution that worked for me, and there is always topical Spiro, Proxiphen,ect, that can maintain hair. Good luck.
Finasteride has a biological model and dutasteride does not. This quite simply means that there is much more safety data on Propecia than Avodart right now. The effects of 5AR type 2 deficiency, (the same environment Propecia creates) have been thoroughly studied for over 25 years in a group of patients in the Dominican Republic. The long-term "side effects" are no hair loss, and no prostate cancer. Patients with genetic 5AR-2 deficiency have no life-threatening disorders and there is no 5AR-2 present in their brain tissue. Conversely, there is no biological model for 5AR type 1 deficiency, which Avodart creates, and there are measurable levels of 5AR-1 in the human brain. Conclusion -- the blockage of 5AR-1 may have yet unknown neurological implications.
And like i said the only way to know is to try for yourself. I know what i know based on reading massive amounts of Dutasteride users feedback, aswell as my own, a couple people i personally know who are quite normal and healthy, and reading studies of the functions of DHT in the body,ect. I wuldnt put all my faith in the FDA, we all know about vioxx, and lots of other drugs that are getting pulled of the market that they claimed were safe. The side effects are definetly way over the 5% mark, and they havent even listed obvious side effects from it, probabbly because people over 40 have already a higher estrogen to testosterone ratio, and already have lower energy and strength levels, libido,ect. They have never tested Avodart on young males, like they have with Finesteride. Ive studied the hormonal effects that Dutasteride causes, which is basically a high estrogen to testosterone environment, and this is a disaster. If your 40 years old you may not notice to much of a difference, but i sure as hell did. My doctor wouldnt even take propecia because he said you need DHT for other functions in the body.
Bottom line is, if your taking Dutasteride its a crap shoot. If you want try 0.5mg per day, and if you dont get any side effects, then you can go for 2 per day. I would definetly use 1 pump of AIMF per day while on Dutasteride because it personally helped me a bit with some of the side effects i for from Dutasteride, mostly helped out with energy and strength. Quitting Dutasteride was by far the best solution that worked for me, and there is always topical Spiro, Proxiphen,ect, that can maintain hair. Good luck.
