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Hamstring question
- Thread starter gymtime
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diamonddiceclay
New member
deads belong on leg day
I space my leg and back day far apart just for that reason. Deads definetly use a lot of legs. As long as your hams are recovered in time for legs day (or your hams are recovered in time for back day) and you are still making gains with your hamstring size/strength you should be ok.
the People's Champ
New member
gymtime said:
exactly
gymtime said:
I think hamstring curls would be a good idea... you do need some direct hammie work, deads ain't enough IMO (Some people may disagree). SLDLs... you run the risk of overtraining your lower back.. but I'm fine with both SLDLs and conventionals in the same week, so it may work for you too.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
There isnt any way that I could do justice to both squats and deads on the same day......
diamonddiceclay said:
mike peters
New member
SLDL is great for leg day, but regular deads should be done with the back routine.
endpoint
New member
how come none of the "deads on back day" people cant back up why they do it on back day? some one tell me why you do it on back day when it only JUST uses the muscles of the back to stabalize your arms, and depending how tall you are i guess there is an inital pull from your upper body.
I can understand if you cant handle deads and squats on the same day. you must have a weak back or bad endurance (i know the lower back cant take to many sets)
how bout those 3X3 routines for powerlifting?
you work squats and dead + bench all together 3 times a week.
I can understand if you cant handle deads and squats on the same day. you must have a weak back or bad endurance (i know the lower back cant take to many sets)
how bout those 3X3 routines for powerlifting?
you work squats and dead + bench all together 3 times a week.
gymtime
New member
endpoint said:
I am not a bodybuilder, but my "work capacity" is likely much higher than yours. So I don't think that's the problem. For the sake of arguement, forget what muscles both excercises hit. They are both highly compound movements that are most beneficial if done on different days. If I do one after the other, I will not get as much out of whichever one I do second because of the toll taken by the first one. Like I said, If you have enough gas in the tank to do a full set of regular deads after a REAL set of squats, then you're not doing squats properly, and vice versa. Doing both is an ego thing which I left behind years ago. You will too.
endpoint
New member
1# how do you know about my work capacity
2# depending on what set/rep range you do you can do both in one training session. its all to do with work capacity and endurance........i ranges from person to person. I myself have trouble with higher rep range stuff.....but can pull off many sets at a lower range.
3#you dont know me. I dont train both in one day. I used to.....but gave up due to finding a better program. I am a powerlifter.....and train as an olympic lifter as well (you cant say i dont have a high work capacity if i can last a 2 1/2 hour training session with squats and olympic lifts)
4# i work a labor job lifting crates for 8 hours a day......and my back doesnt get tired. i have a high work capacity.
IM NOT TRYING TO IMPRESS YOU, IM NOT TRYING TO BE MORE OF A MAN, im just stating the truth.
many of the worlds best powerlifters train 3 compound movements a day......i dont hear them complaining......just breaking records.
Try increasing the rest between sets.....what percentage of your 1RM are you working?
2# depending on what set/rep range you do you can do both in one training session. its all to do with work capacity and endurance........i ranges from person to person. I myself have trouble with higher rep range stuff.....but can pull off many sets at a lower range.
3#you dont know me. I dont train both in one day. I used to.....but gave up due to finding a better program. I am a powerlifter.....and train as an olympic lifter as well (you cant say i dont have a high work capacity if i can last a 2 1/2 hour training session with squats and olympic lifts)
4# i work a labor job lifting crates for 8 hours a day......and my back doesnt get tired. i have a high work capacity.
IM NOT TRYING TO IMPRESS YOU, IM NOT TRYING TO BE MORE OF A MAN, im just stating the truth.
many of the worlds best powerlifters train 3 compound movements a day......i dont hear them complaining......just breaking records.
Try increasing the rest between sets.....what percentage of your 1RM are you working?
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Endpoint, I'm not trying to start shit here......I'm kinda interested in what you are saying. My opinions just seem to fit in with gymtimes.....but I am open to new ideas. So anyway, a few comments on my weak back and lack of endurance.....and a few questions at the bottom 
.
Well I have a bench day, a squat day and a deadlift day (plus light recovery days). I'm not a bodybuilder......I'm a wannabe powerlifter (I wont insult the guys on the powerlifting board by pretending I can hang with them).
Also when I deadlift I give it alot of back.....I lift more that way (something alot of big deadlifters would agree on (Vince Anello is one I believe).....if they use conventional stance). Lifting more in those 3 lifts is the reason I train. so deadlift becomes a back day for me.
As for weak back or bad endurance......well I do SLDL's with about 450lb. When doing rack lockouts from knee cap height I go up to 720 at the moment. If that means I have a weak back.....ok you are right. I know it isnt a huge amount of weight......but I only weigh 210 at 6'2", so it isnt pathetic weight either. How would you like me to measure endurance?? Resting pulse is around 40 bpm. Over Xmas, when the gyms were shut I did some running for shits and giggles......had no problem covering 6.5 miles in 30 minutes. How long can I train for? Dunno.....I used to work on a construction site, and spent time as a lumberjack, and would still train at the end of the day.....so I figure I cant be doi9ng too badly in that area. It would also depend on reps and rest periods. Long sessions just arent as effective as 1 hour sessions for me.
Mind if I ask why you dont dead and squat on the same day? What routine do you do? I have tried it in the past......but consider my current training routine far superior in terms of strength gains. Thats a serious question.....I'm always looking for new ways forward.
And which world class powerlifters train deads and squats on the same day for extended periods??
.Well I have a bench day, a squat day and a deadlift day (plus light recovery days). I'm not a bodybuilder......I'm a wannabe powerlifter (I wont insult the guys on the powerlifting board by pretending I can hang with them
).Also when I deadlift I give it alot of back.....I lift more that way (something alot of big deadlifters would agree on (Vince Anello is one I believe).....if they use conventional stance). Lifting more in those 3 lifts is the reason I train. so deadlift becomes a back day for me.
As for weak back or bad endurance......well I do SLDL's with about 450lb. When doing rack lockouts from knee cap height I go up to 720 at the moment. If that means I have a weak back.....ok you are right. I know it isnt a huge amount of weight......but I only weigh 210 at 6'2", so it isnt pathetic weight either. How would you like me to measure endurance?? Resting pulse is around 40 bpm. Over Xmas, when the gyms were shut I did some running for shits and giggles......had no problem covering 6.5 miles in 30 minutes. How long can I train for? Dunno.....I used to work on a construction site, and spent time as a lumberjack, and would still train at the end of the day.....so I figure I cant be doi9ng too badly in that area. It would also depend on reps and rest periods. Long sessions just arent as effective as 1 hour sessions for me.
Mind if I ask why you dont dead and squat on the same day? What routine do you do? I have tried it in the past......but consider my current training routine far superior in terms of strength gains. Thats a serious question.....I'm always looking for new ways forward
.And which world class powerlifters train deads and squats on the same day for extended periods??
endpoint said:
Last edited:
endpoint
New member
okay first of some links for ya:
here is how i train at the moment:
http://www.testosterone.net/html/133per.html
If you cant be bothered to read it........i have one day for both squat/deadlift, where i build up to a one rep maximum (100%) in a movement that uses the same major muscles as a squat and deadlift........in the case of powerlifting(where less quads are used than body building)......hamstrings lower back and glutes. the main movement will be a variation of a "good morning" other weeks box squats and other weeks deadlifts will be used.
72 hours later a day will be given for speed. box squats at a low percentage (60%) will be used to build up speed.
as for the endurance im not talking over all body indurance. More specifically lowerback endurence. how many sets and reps before your back starts wearing out? so yeah im talking about the backs endurence not the person. as i said my lower back thrives on low rep work, and gets really worn out on higher (8 and above).....but it can heaps of sets. where as my biceps (due to lack of training are the other way around.....they can only be worked in higher rep ranges (10-12) and lower sets (4-5) other wise they just wear out.
as for people working deads and squats the same day:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/korte.htm
that is a summary of the program......i can link individual interviews with lifters that preffer this type of training if you ask.
I do not consider my self "world class" or "super strong" I was involved in the Institute of sport of my country. I had the chance to train as an olympic weight lifter. The sessions would be 2-2 1/2 hours long. overhead, front, standard , olympic squats squats and more squats. then onto pulls, dead lifts, snatch grip deadlifts, cleans, clean and jerks snatchs........over and over again.
I was being trained by an athelete who had one medals at the olympics in weightlifting..........this is how they were trained.
here is how i train at the moment:
http://www.testosterone.net/html/133per.html
If you cant be bothered to read it........i have one day for both squat/deadlift, where i build up to a one rep maximum (100%) in a movement that uses the same major muscles as a squat and deadlift........in the case of powerlifting(where less quads are used than body building)......hamstrings lower back and glutes. the main movement will be a variation of a "good morning" other weeks box squats and other weeks deadlifts will be used.
72 hours later a day will be given for speed. box squats at a low percentage (60%) will be used to build up speed.
as for the endurance im not talking over all body indurance. More specifically lowerback endurence. how many sets and reps before your back starts wearing out? so yeah im talking about the backs endurence not the person. as i said my lower back thrives on low rep work, and gets really worn out on higher (8 and above).....but it can heaps of sets. where as my biceps (due to lack of training are the other way around.....they can only be worked in higher rep ranges (10-12) and lower sets (4-5) other wise they just wear out.
as for people working deads and squats the same day:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/korte.htm
that is a summary of the program......i can link individual interviews with lifters that preffer this type of training if you ask.
I do not consider my self "world class" or "super strong" I was involved in the Institute of sport of my country. I had the chance to train as an olympic weight lifter. The sessions would be 2-2 1/2 hours long. overhead, front, standard , olympic squats squats and more squats. then onto pulls, dead lifts, snatch grip deadlifts, cleans, clean and jerks snatchs........over and over again.
I was being trained by an athelete who had one medals at the olympics in weightlifting..........this is how they were trained.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Thx for the reply.....sorry that its taken so long to get back to this thread.....I've been a bit busy
The way your training sounds interesting. Mebbe I'll have to try it out next time I change things around. The principle sounds fine....but I'll have to make sure I have a barf-bag handy.
On the back endurance I sound similar to you. Sets of 8-10 really finish me off quickly (prob because I usually work in the lower rep range). With sets of 5 and less, my hamstrings go first whether I squat or deadlift.
It would be interesting to see the individual interviews for the Korte training method. If you have the links readily available post em or email em to me.
Later.
The way your training sounds interesting. Mebbe I'll have to try it out next time I change things around. The principle sounds fine....but I'll have to make sure I have a barf-bag handy.
On the back endurance I sound similar to you. Sets of 8-10 really finish me off quickly (prob because I usually work in the lower rep range). With sets of 5 and less, my hamstrings go first whether I squat or deadlift.
It would be interesting to see the individual interviews for the Korte training method. If you have the links readily available post em or email em to me.
Later.
endpoint said:
