Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below informed09
New member
how much T4 should you run while on GH? And for how long?
GH and T4
- Thread starter informed09
- Start date
Personally I haven't had the balls to try any thyroid hormones. How do you feel when on it? I know that too high of a dose too soon of course can cause a life-threatening thyroid storm (as can stopping too quickly), but I'm sensitive to stims and don't want to be too jumpy. The last time I had my thyroid checked my TSH was WNL but my Free T3 was low. Unfortunately that doesnt mean shit clinically as TSH and free T4 are what's used to diagnose hypo or hyperthyroidism.
52_21_30 said:
I, too, am extremely sensitive to stimulants -- can't even drink diet coke -- but the lethargy caused by gh had gotten to the point that I was taking two naps every day just to get through. After working my way up to 200, that dose doesn't seem like a stimulant but it does counter the gh enough so that I don't feel exhausted all day. On the rare ocassions that it does make me jumpy, I simply skip dosing the next day: The half life is quite long, something like 4 days as I recall.
Cauliflower Ear
New member
yeah what is the lethargy with gh all about? does it have to do with all the cells dividing requires lots of cellular energy and in turn your body needs more energy just to go about its daily routine?
informed09
New member
is there a noticeable difference with the T4 as to without it?
Go to anabolic fitness and read the thread "Ulter and other GH users" they find that anthony roberts does not make a compelling case for t-4 with gh, most find it's a waste of money. you can run t-3 at a lower and cheaper dose, 25mcg. seems like it's been discussed over there for a long time and just recently comes up when there's a new edition of somebodys book to sell.informed09 said:
Whether it's t4 or t3 doesnt really matter that much (just adjust the dosage). But thyroid hormones have long been advocated when using GH. But then again so has insulin, and I dont use that anymore. I definitely think I could benefit from either t3 or t4 with my GH, but I don't want to be too jumpy.
informed09
New member
I have used T3 before and never really get a jumpy feeling. guess i will stick with a low dose of it
52_21_30 said:
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
ole farte' said:
I think that myself and the PhD who authored the piece with me make a pretty compelling argument, actually
But I suppose I'm biased. The majority of people who have used it with T3 as well as T4 have found that T4 is the better route to go, also. It's probably only at about 75%+ though...not what I hoped for, but still very significant. Steroid.com and SteroidSuperBoard both have tons of positive feedback from people who have tried it both ways...as well as some other boards I've seen. The board you mention is probably the only one where the majority is against it.
Anthony Roberts said:I think that myself and the PhD who authored the piece with me make a pretty compelling argument, actually
But I suppose I'm biased. The majority of people who have used it with T3 as well as T4 have found that T4 is the better route to go, also. It's probably only at about 75%+ though...not what I hoped for, but still very significant. Steroid.com and SteroidSuperBoard both have tons of positive feedback from people who have tried it both ways...as well as some other boards I've seen. The board you mention is probably the only one where the majority is against it.
I'm using t4, per AR's article, and am very happy with the results.
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
kbrkbr said:I'm using t4, per AR's article, and am very happy with the results.
That's the true test in my opinion. On most boards there's been a paradigm shift and GH is now being used with T4 more than T3, and the majority of people are very happy with the end result.
all the whey
New member
kbrkbr said:I'm using t4, per AR's article, and am very happy with the results.
What were your results?
What was you dose of hgh and t4?
Have you used t3 with hgh?
Thanks alot.
all the whey said:
As I stated before, my original motive for using t4 was to combat the lethargy that accompanied my gh regimine (8iu EOD) The side benefit is that it seems to have enhanced gh's ability to fight fat. I can't really say whether this is the result of some synergy between gh and t4, as AR argues, or because the t4 has cranked up my metabolism. Regardless, this has resulted in my actually getting leaner in the face of a seriously flawed diet. (My father is in terrible shape -- essentially he's dying -- and I've spent the last two months flying between LA and the midwest to care for him while trying to maintain my work schedule. Without accesss to my kitchen, I've been living on junk/fast food and still continue to drop a couple of lbs of fat/month.)
I started off using 50mcg ED, then slowly titrated upwards until I hit 200. On days that I know are going to challenging, I might go up to 300, but I never do that two days in a row.
I tried t3 years ago and didn't find it to be as lipolytic as this gh/t4 combo seems to be, so I tend to think that there's something to AR's argument.
Hope this helps.
How long do you run the T4 before taking a break?
kbrkbr said:As I stated before, my original motive for using t4 was to combat the lethargy that accompanied my gh regimine (8iu EOD) The side benefit is that it seems to have enhanced gh's ability to fight fat. I can't really say whether this is the result of some synergy between gh and t4, as AR argues, or because the t4 has cranked up my metabolism. Regardless, this has resulted in my actually getting leaner in the face of a seriously flawed diet. (My father is in terrible shape -- essentially he's dying -- and I've spent the last two months flying between LA and the midwest to care for him while trying to maintain my work schedule. Without accesss to my kitchen, I've been living on junk/fast food and still continue to drop a couple of lbs of fat/month.)
I started off using 50mcg ED, then slowly titrated upwards until I hit 200. On days that I know are going to challenging, I might go up to 300, but I never do that two days in a row.
I tried t3 years ago and didn't find it to be as lipolytic as this gh/t4 combo seems to be, so I tend to think that there's something to AR's argument.
Hope this helps.
informed09
New member
mayb I should try T4 since I have already tried it with T3. Then I will have a true comparison. How do you recommend taking it? dose? and time period?
Anthony Roberts said:
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
I'm noticing a trend where people are using it have found good results with about 100mcgs.
all the whey
New member
kbrkbr said:As I stated before, my original motive for using t4 was to combat the lethargy that accompanied my gh regimine (8iu EOD) The side benefit is that it seems to have enhanced gh's ability to fight fat. I can't really say whether this is the result of some synergy between gh and t4, as AR argues, or because the t4 has cranked up my metabolism. Regardless, this has resulted in my actually getting leaner in the face of a seriously flawed diet. (My father is in terrible shape -- essentially he's dying -- and I've spent the last two months flying between LA and the midwest to care for him while trying to maintain my work schedule. Without accesss to my kitchen, I've been living on junk/fast food and still continue to drop a couple of lbs of fat/month.)
I started off using 50mcg ED, then slowly titrated upwards until I hit 200. On days that I know are going to challenging, I might go up to 300, but I never do that two days in a row.
I tried t3 years ago and didn't find it to be as lipolytic as this gh/t4 combo seems to be, so I tend to think that there's something to AR's argument.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the reply. I will add t-4.
Sorry to hear about your father.
Dr James Daemon
New member
Hi Guys,
I noticed some loose ends here- Here is my opinion
I definitely think I could benefit from either t3 or t4 with my GH, but I don't want to be too jumpy.
Thyroid Hormones sensitize the heart to circulating catecholamines- essentialy priming them respond optimally to adren/norandre. So the potential Synergy with Clen and Ephedrine is, well, pretty self explanitory.
That explains the jumpiness!!
yeah what is the lethargy with gh all about? does it have to do with all the cells dividing requires lots of cellular energy and in turn your body needs more energy just to go about its daily routine?
I had an idea that I unfurled in an article that bioenergetics points to there being a finite amount of energy available within the cell at any given time. So for a cell to hypertrophy (AAS) and Hyperplasia(HGH) simultaneously, is a little ambitious. There is an argument that a hypertrophying cell will place itself closer to the point in the cell cycle where it will divide, but this is an argument at this stage. Anecdotal lethargy seems to support the original hypothesis- the supply of raw materials and energy to enable both process to happen optimally is a little unlikley- but this is conjecture.
Go to anabolic fitness and read the thread "Ulter and other GH users" they find that anthony roberts does not make a compelling case for t-4 with gh, most find it's a waste of money. you can run t-3 at a lower and cheaper dose, 25mcg. seems like it's been discussed over there for a long time and just recently comes up when there's a new edition of somebodys book to sell.
ooooo!That was a little below the belt. What about you..? Do you have an opinion..? Can you find something to dispute in the article itself..? Have you tried it...? Not wishing to sound inflammatory, but give it a go, then decide- We both have.
I started off using 50mcg ED, then slowly titrated upwards until I hit 200. On days that I know are going to challenging, I might go up to 300, but I never do that two days in a row.
Not being pedantic, but T4 takes up to two weeks to "come on" in the pharmacological sense, T3 between 24-72 hours. A pool of the stuff builds up rather than going straight into the bloodstream, so taking some on the day will be unlikley to affect hormone levels within a few hours substantially...Just MO!
Hope this helps!
I noticed some loose ends here- Here is my opinion
I definitely think I could benefit from either t3 or t4 with my GH, but I don't want to be too jumpy.
Thyroid Hormones sensitize the heart to circulating catecholamines- essentialy priming them respond optimally to adren/norandre. So the potential Synergy with Clen and Ephedrine is, well, pretty self explanitory.
That explains the jumpiness!!
yeah what is the lethargy with gh all about? does it have to do with all the cells dividing requires lots of cellular energy and in turn your body needs more energy just to go about its daily routine?
I had an idea that I unfurled in an article that bioenergetics points to there being a finite amount of energy available within the cell at any given time. So for a cell to hypertrophy (AAS) and Hyperplasia(HGH) simultaneously, is a little ambitious. There is an argument that a hypertrophying cell will place itself closer to the point in the cell cycle where it will divide, but this is an argument at this stage. Anecdotal lethargy seems to support the original hypothesis- the supply of raw materials and energy to enable both process to happen optimally is a little unlikley- but this is conjecture.
Go to anabolic fitness and read the thread "Ulter and other GH users" they find that anthony roberts does not make a compelling case for t-4 with gh, most find it's a waste of money. you can run t-3 at a lower and cheaper dose, 25mcg. seems like it's been discussed over there for a long time and just recently comes up when there's a new edition of somebodys book to sell.
ooooo!That was a little below the belt. What about you..? Do you have an opinion..? Can you find something to dispute in the article itself..? Have you tried it...? Not wishing to sound inflammatory, but give it a go, then decide- We both have.
I started off using 50mcg ED, then slowly titrated upwards until I hit 200. On days that I know are going to challenging, I might go up to 300, but I never do that two days in a row.
Not being pedantic, but T4 takes up to two weeks to "come on" in the pharmacological sense, T3 between 24-72 hours. A pool of the stuff builds up rather than going straight into the bloodstream, so taking some on the day will be unlikley to affect hormone levels within a few hours substantially...Just MO!
Hope this helps!
Not trying to be insulting, i was just stating what was on the AF board . I respect Ulters opinion on the t-4 addition to hgh. i believe another mod made the book comment. Yes, i have tried the t-4 with my jin, 100mcg ed. just as i was getting close to finishing the bottle i read Ulters and the others take on the issue. also stated there was that it was just a theory and that sometimes things look good in theory but never work. I did not get any benefits from the t-4(liqued from ag guys) Can you tell me how long , how much ed, and how many bottles i am going to have to take to see a difference. everything i have heard about hgh is that it is a very subtle difference after at least 6months of use. As to your ?, can i find anything to dispute in the article itself? With my background how can i even begin to discuss the technicalities of theory written by a guy with a phd. get real. what interests me is the statement "anybody using hgh with t-3 is wasting their time(and i would presume their money) and anybody using just the hgh alone is wasting 1/2 their money". i may have those two statement ass-backwards. just wondering the formula for those 2 statements. thanks...oh , one more thing , i would love to see you and Ulter discuss this.Dr James Daemon said:
all the whey
New member
Anthony Roberts said:
I have read that also.
I take 2.75ius yr round. Should I go for the 100mcgs yr round or a lower dosage?
Or, should I just do 5ius for six months with the 100mcgs?
Thanks man. I love your book.
Dr James Daemon said:Hi Guys,
I noticed some loose ends here- Here is my opinion
I definitely think I could benefit from either t3 or t4 with my GH, but I don't want to be too jumpy.
Thyroid Hormones sensitize the heart to circulating catecholamines- essentialy priming them respond optimally to adren/norandre. So the potential Synergy with Clen and Ephedrine is, well, pretty self explanitory.
That explains the jumpiness!!
yeah what is the lethargy with gh all about? does it have to do with all the cells dividing requires lots of cellular energy and in turn your body needs more energy just to go about its daily routine?
I had an idea that I unfurled in an article that bioenergetics points to there being a finite amount of energy available within the cell at any given time. So for a cell to hypertrophy (AAS) and Hyperplasia(HGH) simultaneously, is a little ambitious. There is an argument that a hypertrophying cell will place itself closer to the point in the cell cycle where it will divide, but this is an argument at this stage. Anecdotal lethargy seems to support the original hypothesis- the supply of raw materials and energy to enable both process to happen optimally is a little unlikley- but this is conjecture.
Go to anabolic fitness and read the thread "Ulter and other GH users" they find that anthony roberts does not make a compelling case for t-4 with gh, most find it's a waste of money. you can run t-3 at a lower and cheaper dose, 25mcg. seems like it's been discussed over there for a long time and just recently comes up when there's a new edition of somebodys book to sell.
ooooo!That was a little below the belt. What about you..? Do you have an opinion..? Can you find something to dispute in the article itself..? Have you tried it...? Not wishing to sound inflammatory, but give it a go, then decide- We both have.
I started off using 50mcg ED, then slowly titrated upwards until I hit 200. On days that I know are going to challenging, I might go up to 300, but I never do that two days in a row.
Not being pedantic, but T4 takes up to two weeks to "come on" in the pharmacological sense, T3 between 24-72 hours. A pool of the stuff builds up rather than going straight into the bloodstream, so taking some on the day will be unlikley to affect hormone levels within a few hours substantially...Just MO!
Hope this helps!
Great post! Your body releases GH during sleep, so it would make sense to feel lethargic as your body thinks that it is supposed to be asleep when you shoot. Not sure if that's correct, but that is what I've always heard, and it makes sense. Also, I don't Anthony Roberts would sell a higher number of books just by advocating the use of T4 over T3. There is no trust nowadays. The article made a lot of sense, and so far has only been counter attacked by people saying that money is behind it. That's just not a good enough counter argument. Period.
Dr James Daemon
New member
Sorry to have to answer questions in one go- I dont get to spend as much time as I'd like on boards these days- BTW- If anyones interested, I made a post on PGCL which may be of interest to those interested in GH.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532327
Ok:
Not trying to be insulting, i was just stating what was on the AF board .
No offense taken!Just the Halotestin makes me edgy
I respect Ulters opinion on the t-4 addition to hgh. i believe another mod made the book comment.
I havent read those, so can't comment, if you want to paste them in this thread that would be useful.
Yes, i have tried the t-4 with my jin, 100mcg ed. just as i was getting close to finishing the bottle i read Ulters and the others take on the issue. also stated there was that it was just a theory and that sometimes things look good in theory but never work. I did not get any benefits from the t-4(liqued from ag guys)
Ok- How do you know you got no benefit- Without getting pedantic-these opinions we have are entirely subjective, which is why it helps to throw in as much research data and get out there and try it. It could be a combination of things- Ive never used liquid gear- that may have been a bad batch, may have been underdosed.COuld have been bad GH, maybe the water wasnt sterile and compromised it- not trying to undermine your observations, but to say you got nothing off GH and its because of T4, is a bit lame- youd get something of GH even without T4 or T3, so what are we basing this on..?
It could be your concentration of enzymes, binding proteins is different to most people..Im not patronising you here, and Im trying not to go for the blind you with science apporach as you'll probably expect- but lets start with the premise- everyone is different. No one training routine is optimal for everyone, ever- So as for drug dosesage and unquantifiable effects...Well!Its a rocky road. It could be you personally for whatever reason did not find that to be the optimal dose for you, with that cycle, and that training plan, at that period. It's impossible to come up with precise data because all variables are average, and by virtue of it being an average, an average includes all the freaks, so there is no average, its as simple as that.
What I felt we had done however was present a logical theorum, that at the time required both of us to step back from previous opinions we held- I used to swear by T3, in fact, Im using it now, but I don't use GH anymore, I opt for IGF and PGCL. Seriously, reaching the conclusions we did took a lot of research on Both Anthony, and myselfs part, and we were quite frankly stunned. We discovered alot of other interesting stuff during this period, some of which can be found on my news pages
(Log onto www.synergy-solutions.org and click on news from the home page)
We presented the theory for people to go and experiment with to find their optimal doses with. For instance, before I take on a serious client, As you can see from my application form (and again, I invite you to check the application form located at the bottom of Synergys home page) I require full blood work results, but you know what..? I still cannot guarentee complete precision with the doses, but you have a guide on which to base your own experimenting. Its a guide based on as much evidence as we have access to (which is a lot). If you can't dispute the theory we've presented, why not try again With a different dose..? Bear in mind T4 takes longer to kick in than T3 so a 2 week loading period before the cycle may be well advised.
So if this were accurate- you read This guys opinion, stopped using T4, used T3 and suddenly made gains that you never beleived possible...? Im doubtin that or I think you would have mentioned it. So theres your personal proof.
Can you tell me how long , how much ed, and how many bottles i am going to have to take to see a difference.
Don;t know about the product, so can't comment sorry! What dose of HGH were you running, and how was it split...?
everything i have heard about hgh is that it is a very subtle difference after at least 6months of use.
Dose and individual and diet dependant entirely, and were back to the starting blocks here!
As to your ?, can i find anything to dispute in the article itself? With my background how can i even begin to discuss the technicalities of theory written by a guy with a phd. get real.
I've taken that on board with respect, most people wouldnt have the balls to make a statement like that- and as such, Ive tried to steer clear of technicality in my repsonse- I just hope it doesnt look like Im hedging!
what interests me is the statement "anybody using hgh with t-3 is wasting their time(and i would presume their money) and anybody using just the hgh alone is wasting 1/2 their money". i may have those two statement ass-backwards. just wondering the formula for those 2 statements. thanks...
Cut and paste:
If you’ve been using GH without T4, you’ve been wasting half your money – and if you’ve been using it with T3, you’ve been wasting your time
Its catchy, its written to engage- Anthony writes in a far more succint and easy to read format than I do- A formula- I cant lie to you and say there is one for that staement. Now if it were a % given, then Id dispute it. But its true- If you agree with the contents of the theory presented in the article, GH with no thyroid homrones is a waste- you will get some benefit, but not as much as you shoudl, so for return on investment, etcetc.
As for someone who takes T3 in the hope it will speed up their growth but is ignorant of the metabolic process that make up the hormonal symphony within the body, the hand to mouth action is a waste of time. Trust my articles are good, but they make fucking boring reading!
oh , one more thing , i would love to see you and Ulter discuss this.
As for this guy whose psuedonym my brain just will not retain- We came to this conclusion with me being intitially of the opinion that T3 would be better, and when confronted with stark fact, changed our minds. People on boards billed as heros dont.
Because its a Pride thing, and also psychologically, there is this thing called the consistancy principle, were people like to be seen as consistant. Used in selling all the time. If this guy can offer some scientific insight, I'd love to see it. If its just a slanging match about anecdotal reports, I can tell you now - I have a business to run. But I can also tell you that of my client bank 10 out of every 100 may not respond to this dosing protocol- do I want to argue the central premise because of the theory because of a small percentage, or should I adapt it to fit their body, which is similar apparatus..?
The answer to that isnt rocket science!
So, science is good, slanging matches about experience, I will look at but if its not as convivncing as what Ive seen so far in the field, then its a waste of time. I do this for a living, as does Anthony- Both of us are very highly recognised, and if discussion boards collapsed tomorrow, Id still be putting food on the table, as would he.
Next!
Great post!
Thanks!
Your body releases GH during sleep, so it would make sense to feel lethargic as your body thinks that it is supposed to be asleep when you shoot. Not sure if that's correct, but that is what I've always heard, and it makes sense.
It stands to reason that there is some logic to that, would be interesting to test melatonin levels after a shot. Note also that when On GH youre essentially fasting, as it shifts the fuel intake to mainly fat, by preventing glucose transport across the cell membrane, now fat, as we all know from exercise science(!) is very rewarding, but very slow!!!And with the heigtened need for energy, this may figure in heavily as a Negative Synergy if you like.
Also, I don't Anthony Roberts would sell a higher number of books just by advocating the use of T4 over T3. There is no trust nowadays. The article made a lot of sense, and so far has only been counter attacked by people saying that money is behind it. That's just not a good enough counter argument. Period.
Publicity is publicity at the end of the day- you cant keep everybody happy, because as discussed above- were all different!
Thank you all, and goodnight!
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532327
Ok:
Not trying to be insulting, i was just stating what was on the AF board .
No offense taken!Just the Halotestin makes me edgy
I respect Ulters opinion on the t-4 addition to hgh. i believe another mod made the book comment.
I havent read those, so can't comment, if you want to paste them in this thread that would be useful.
Yes, i have tried the t-4 with my jin, 100mcg ed. just as i was getting close to finishing the bottle i read Ulters and the others take on the issue. also stated there was that it was just a theory and that sometimes things look good in theory but never work. I did not get any benefits from the t-4(liqued from ag guys)
Ok- How do you know you got no benefit- Without getting pedantic-these opinions we have are entirely subjective, which is why it helps to throw in as much research data and get out there and try it. It could be a combination of things- Ive never used liquid gear- that may have been a bad batch, may have been underdosed.COuld have been bad GH, maybe the water wasnt sterile and compromised it- not trying to undermine your observations, but to say you got nothing off GH and its because of T4, is a bit lame- youd get something of GH even without T4 or T3, so what are we basing this on..?
It could be your concentration of enzymes, binding proteins is different to most people..Im not patronising you here, and Im trying not to go for the blind you with science apporach as you'll probably expect- but lets start with the premise- everyone is different. No one training routine is optimal for everyone, ever- So as for drug dosesage and unquantifiable effects...Well!Its a rocky road. It could be you personally for whatever reason did not find that to be the optimal dose for you, with that cycle, and that training plan, at that period. It's impossible to come up with precise data because all variables are average, and by virtue of it being an average, an average includes all the freaks, so there is no average, its as simple as that.
What I felt we had done however was present a logical theorum, that at the time required both of us to step back from previous opinions we held- I used to swear by T3, in fact, Im using it now, but I don't use GH anymore, I opt for IGF and PGCL. Seriously, reaching the conclusions we did took a lot of research on Both Anthony, and myselfs part, and we were quite frankly stunned. We discovered alot of other interesting stuff during this period, some of which can be found on my news pages
(Log onto www.synergy-solutions.org and click on news from the home page)
We presented the theory for people to go and experiment with to find their optimal doses with. For instance, before I take on a serious client, As you can see from my application form (and again, I invite you to check the application form located at the bottom of Synergys home page) I require full blood work results, but you know what..? I still cannot guarentee complete precision with the doses, but you have a guide on which to base your own experimenting. Its a guide based on as much evidence as we have access to (which is a lot). If you can't dispute the theory we've presented, why not try again With a different dose..? Bear in mind T4 takes longer to kick in than T3 so a 2 week loading period before the cycle may be well advised.
So if this were accurate- you read This guys opinion, stopped using T4, used T3 and suddenly made gains that you never beleived possible...? Im doubtin that or I think you would have mentioned it. So theres your personal proof.
Can you tell me how long , how much ed, and how many bottles i am going to have to take to see a difference.
Don;t know about the product, so can't comment sorry! What dose of HGH were you running, and how was it split...?
everything i have heard about hgh is that it is a very subtle difference after at least 6months of use.
Dose and individual and diet dependant entirely, and were back to the starting blocks here!
As to your ?, can i find anything to dispute in the article itself? With my background how can i even begin to discuss the technicalities of theory written by a guy with a phd. get real.
I've taken that on board with respect, most people wouldnt have the balls to make a statement like that- and as such, Ive tried to steer clear of technicality in my repsonse- I just hope it doesnt look like Im hedging!
what interests me is the statement "anybody using hgh with t-3 is wasting their time(and i would presume their money) and anybody using just the hgh alone is wasting 1/2 their money". i may have those two statement ass-backwards. just wondering the formula for those 2 statements. thanks...
Cut and paste:
If you’ve been using GH without T4, you’ve been wasting half your money – and if you’ve been using it with T3, you’ve been wasting your time
Its catchy, its written to engage- Anthony writes in a far more succint and easy to read format than I do- A formula- I cant lie to you and say there is one for that staement. Now if it were a % given, then Id dispute it. But its true- If you agree with the contents of the theory presented in the article, GH with no thyroid homrones is a waste- you will get some benefit, but not as much as you shoudl, so for return on investment, etcetc.
As for someone who takes T3 in the hope it will speed up their growth but is ignorant of the metabolic process that make up the hormonal symphony within the body, the hand to mouth action is a waste of time. Trust my articles are good, but they make fucking boring reading!
oh , one more thing , i would love to see you and Ulter discuss this.
As for this guy whose psuedonym my brain just will not retain- We came to this conclusion with me being intitially of the opinion that T3 would be better, and when confronted with stark fact, changed our minds. People on boards billed as heros dont.
Because its a Pride thing, and also psychologically, there is this thing called the consistancy principle, were people like to be seen as consistant. Used in selling all the time. If this guy can offer some scientific insight, I'd love to see it. If its just a slanging match about anecdotal reports, I can tell you now - I have a business to run. But I can also tell you that of my client bank 10 out of every 100 may not respond to this dosing protocol- do I want to argue the central premise because of the theory because of a small percentage, or should I adapt it to fit their body, which is similar apparatus..?
The answer to that isnt rocket science!
So, science is good, slanging matches about experience, I will look at but if its not as convivncing as what Ive seen so far in the field, then its a waste of time. I do this for a living, as does Anthony- Both of us are very highly recognised, and if discussion boards collapsed tomorrow, Id still be putting food on the table, as would he.
Next!
Great post!
Thanks!
Your body releases GH during sleep, so it would make sense to feel lethargic as your body thinks that it is supposed to be asleep when you shoot. Not sure if that's correct, but that is what I've always heard, and it makes sense.
It stands to reason that there is some logic to that, would be interesting to test melatonin levels after a shot. Note also that when On GH youre essentially fasting, as it shifts the fuel intake to mainly fat, by preventing glucose transport across the cell membrane, now fat, as we all know from exercise science(!) is very rewarding, but very slow!!!And with the heigtened need for energy, this may figure in heavily as a Negative Synergy if you like.
Also, I don't Anthony Roberts would sell a higher number of books just by advocating the use of T4 over T3. There is no trust nowadays. The article made a lot of sense, and so far has only been counter attacked by people saying that money is behind it. That's just not a good enough counter argument. Period.
Publicity is publicity at the end of the day- you cant keep everybody happy, because as discussed above- were all different!
Thank you all, and goodnight!
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
I don't know if anybody realizes this yet, but the person I worked on the article with (Dr.James Daemon, PhD) is also posting in this thread...
I invited him over to help out with the anabolic forum...hes got a wealth of knowledge...don't be shy to pick his brain!
I invited him over to help out with the anabolic forum...hes got a wealth of knowledge...don't be shy to pick his brain!
Cauliflower Ear
New member
fuck, so much good info, i just started 4iu ed and i plan to go on for at least a year...so what is the call guys...a little t3 or a little t4...i dont want to over do it on either...but i might try 25mg ed t3 or 50mg ed t4....
bump for more experience
bump for more experience
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
I think the best point is the one made By Dr.JD...T4 is the way to go, and most of the "evidence" against it...doesn't fit the bill of being "evidence" at all.
Cauliflower Ear
New member
i am using it for the strengthening of tendons and the recovery...the shit is the best stuff in the world for us mma fighters...everyone is on it today in the UFC or PRIDE...so is the throid hormone neccisary? or should it be avoided...
Cauliflower Ear
New member
bump for more experience
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
MR. BMJ said:
Because he's answering it over here instead. I invited him here as a personal friend and asked him to chime in.
In a practical sense, there is a better return on his investment of time to answer this question here, and let his comments be reposted elsewhere if necessary by others, as this forum is far more active than AF.
Dr.Daemon is a very busy man, running his various business (www.synergy-solutions.org), and I think that he can probably only devote so much time to posting on the internet....it's probably best spent where there is the most possible traffic, with regards to this topic and others.
I think the members at EF are certainly capable of carrying on a robust discussion on this topic with myself and Dr.JD without going elsewhere. Lets keep the topic here.
Last edited:
I need some clarification first on the following paragraph:
"Remember, Type 3 iodothyronine deiodinase (D3) is the physiologic INACTIVATOR of thyroid hormones and their effects (13), and is well known to have independent interaction with growth factors (which is what GH and IGF-1 are).(14) This is because with adequate T4 and excess T3, (D1 and D2) deiodinase is no longer needed for conversion of T4 into T3, but levels of D3 deiodinase will be elevated. When there is less of the first two types of deidinase, it would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects), as those first two types are responsible for mediation of many of the effects T3 has on the body. This seems to be one of the ways deiodinase contributes to anabolism in the presence of other hormones."
Is that a typo where it states, "When there is less of the first two types of deidinase, it would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects),...."
To my understanding, Once T3 is established/created, it cannot be converted back to T4. Did you mean to state "T3 which has been converted FROM T4...."...?
Not trying to be picky here....but rather just trying to clarify.
BMJ
"Remember, Type 3 iodothyronine deiodinase (D3) is the physiologic INACTIVATOR of thyroid hormones and their effects (13), and is well known to have independent interaction with growth factors (which is what GH and IGF-1 are).(14) This is because with adequate T4 and excess T3, (D1 and D2) deiodinase is no longer needed for conversion of T4 into T3, but levels of D3 deiodinase will be elevated. When there is less of the first two types of deidinase, it would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects), as those first two types are responsible for mediation of many of the effects T3 has on the body. This seems to be one of the ways deiodinase contributes to anabolism in the presence of other hormones."
Is that a typo where it states, "When there is less of the first two types of deidinase, it would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects),...."
To my understanding, Once T3 is established/created, it cannot be converted back to T4. Did you mean to state "T3 which has been converted FROM T4...."...?
Not trying to be picky here....but rather just trying to clarify.
BMJ
In regards to the following....
"So when there is an excess of T3 in the body (but levels of T4 are normal), the body’s thyroid axis sends a negative feedback signal. This produces less (D1 and D2) deiodinase, but more of the D3 type, which signals the cessation of the T4-T3 conversion process, and is inhibitory of many of the synergistic effects that T3 has!"
Ok, I understand this.
Now, for further clarification, are you stating that GH is going to increase the D1/D2-deiodinase enzymes to help create more T3?
BMJ
"So when there is an excess of T3 in the body (but levels of T4 are normal), the body’s thyroid axis sends a negative feedback signal. This produces less (D1 and D2) deiodinase, but more of the D3 type, which signals the cessation of the T4-T3 conversion process, and is inhibitory of many of the synergistic effects that T3 has!"
Ok, I understand this.
Now, for further clarification, are you stating that GH is going to increase the D1/D2-deiodinase enzymes to help create more T3?
BMJ
Cauliflower Ear
New member
I Am very lost...so t3 or t4 with gh... ...actually i think i am just going to avoid them both
...actually i think i am just going to avoid them both
L
lartinos
Guest
I am very sensitive to stims as well guys, I can't even handle diet pills including trex. T3 works great for me because it isn't stimulant. I'm sure t4 would work well for me too.
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
I don't think so...
Similar threads
