Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Can you help me understand why gear is good for guys who been lifting for years but bad for a newbie. I would think that it would be good for any as long as training and diet are in check. Of course I wouldn't expect doses to be the same for vets and newbs but something like Test couldn't any man take and reap the benefits? Thanks for the help fellas.
Gear- good for you but bad for me??
- Thread starter Tone28
- Start date
That's a good question. It does get kind of silly on here when someone asks about using gear and then gets quizzed on their diet and training... As if everyone who uses gear has perfected both training and dieting and truly gone as far as possible naturally.
shotgunmike
New member
depending on age........definitly you want to have strong tendons and ligaments pre cycle. THis can only be done lifting. Your body will grow naturally in response to lifting heavy weights when you are new to the game, kinda like a free cycle. THen after (imo) a year and a half of working out seriously....3 to 4 days consistantly. Have a working knowlege of nutrition. ANd be over 23 years old........then go on for a short cycle and see how everything works.
Thanks for the response. 59 views and only 2 responses. Seems like alot of guys really don't have an answer. I just don't see how it's good for one guy an bad for another just from lifting experience. Why couldn't any guy be able to take test since it's something your body produces naturally anyway? I do believe you should wait till you're a little older but I just don't see why even someone just starting to lift can jump rite into a mild test cycle.
I think the most important part of it is building a solid foundation and taking advantage of it to the fullest. A lot of this comes thru trial and error. That is what seperates the newbs from experience. And you'll see, compare your training after 2 years training, 5 years, etc. There is not a set timeframe when to start juicing.
The other thing is, some jump into it too fast and lose their opportunity to gain naturally.
The other thing is, some jump into it too fast and lose their opportunity to gain naturally.
i agree with liquid about building a foundation first. think of building a house, without a good foundation what is going to happen???? get some time learning how to lift &eat. See what works for you, then when you do a simple test cycle you will reap far more results then if you just jumped on before building a foundation....
As far as age you have to understand that Test alone is going to shut you down (your body will stop producing this natural hormone) which is not a great trade off when you consider you are producing it at the highest levels when you are young. Yes their are products to use to help keep you keep producing but you are messing with your body at a time when it SHOULD be working on its own. JMO
As far as age you have to understand that Test alone is going to shut you down (your body will stop producing this natural hormone) which is not a great trade off when you consider you are producing it at the highest levels when you are young. Yes their are products to use to help keep you keep producing but you are messing with your body at a time when it SHOULD be working on its own. JMO
I definitely agree with the age and waiting till you get older. I'm 29 and workout off and on. I already have test on hand. Had it for about a year now and argue with myself take it or wait. Friends say just take it and see how it works for me others say wait. There so many supplements you can buy that promise everything but can't deliver. I figure I can do a test cycle and get results and for less money.
I have a short answer but I would like to come back on here in the morning and touch on it again.
my short answer would be if you juice too early you are wasting your gear, it makes more sense to wait and atleast build a base which proves you have somewhat figured out how to eat and lift before wasting money and the risks and juicing.
you can google "on week 4 of cycle and no gains" there are a million threads like that online.. its cause that person does not know how to workout or eat, so their cycle was a waste. even if your gear is severely underdosed bunk, you should still make gains after 4 weeks and always improve
my short answer would be if you juice too early you are wasting your gear, it makes more sense to wait and atleast build a base which proves you have somewhat figured out how to eat and lift before wasting money and the risks and juicing.
you can google "on week 4 of cycle and no gains" there are a million threads like that online.. its cause that person does not know how to workout or eat, so their cycle was a waste. even if your gear is severely underdosed bunk, you should still make gains after 4 weeks and always improve
T
tjbr
Guest
Because gaining naturally is awesome. When you first start lifting, at age 17 or 18 or 19 or so, your body is first reacting to heavy weight... it's liek a cycle in itself. Don't rob yourself of those first years of gym experience by worrying about anabolics.
Also, we hate to see newbies getting swoller than us.
Also, we hate to see newbies getting swoller than us.
thecompound
Pro Bodybuilder
^^Nail on the head
does that ever happen?
the strongest dudes at my gym are in their 40's, the average age of mr. olympia is in their 30's.
you can't tell me a 17 year old pimple faced teen is gonna outlift a 45 year old vet whose been at it for 30 years, steroids or no steroids.
Thanks for all the input fellas. Again I definitely don't think AAS is for younger guys. But what I'm saying is that you can get a great diet plan and training regimen from you guys on EF so if someone were to take that from the experts here and add a test cycle of 500mg week for 10-12 weeks can be very good for a guy that hasn't been training as long as others. I'm not trying to argue with you guys but just saying what's good for you can be just as good for me if I add everything with it correctly experts advice,diet,training,gear,OCT,PCT. Again thanks for all the advice
safety and injury prevention is a huge factor.
if you havent lifted safely for a few years and made gains, managed those gains and kept those gains safely you can be in trouble. if you havent learned how to deal w/ things like colds, stress, injuries, short workouts, break ups, being dehydrated, etc etc you could be setting yourself up for an injury.
you should also know what program/diet combo works best for you by trial and error.
when you train naturally for just 1 year you SHOULD make gains that are basically comparable to a good basic cycle. so adding roids wont help much.
training naturally will help get your ego in check. when i started lifting i felt like super man the first few months.. then i trained w/ people that crushed me and humbled me.. and helped me get set up for a great future in weight training.
etc
etc
if you havent lifted safely for a few years and made gains, managed those gains and kept those gains safely you can be in trouble. if you havent learned how to deal w/ things like colds, stress, injuries, short workouts, break ups, being dehydrated, etc etc you could be setting yourself up for an injury.
you should also know what program/diet combo works best for you by trial and error.
when you train naturally for just 1 year you SHOULD make gains that are basically comparable to a good basic cycle. so adding roids wont help much.
training naturally will help get your ego in check. when i started lifting i felt like super man the first few months.. then i trained w/ people that crushed me and humbled me.. and helped me get set up for a great future in weight training.
etc
etc
i think you should wait just as long. some of the new legal stuff is stronger then most illegal.
if you got the itch to try something then i would look into some test boosters and some expensive, but worth it, protein supps.
then just get on a great program like starting strength and attack it. Add in a great diet w/ a lot of good cals you will grow like you never will again. its a once in a lifetime opportunity and it will set you up for a great future in this sport/hobby or whatever you want to call it.
the diet and training boards here are the best. spend some time reading there and posting questions there.
if you got the itch to try something then i would look into some test boosters and some expensive, but worth it, protein supps.
then just get on a great program like starting strength and attack it. Add in a great diet w/ a lot of good cals you will grow like you never will again. its a once in a lifetime opportunity and it will set you up for a great future in this sport/hobby or whatever you want to call it.
the diet and training boards here are the best. spend some time reading there and posting questions there.
gosh i had a long post and it got deleted so i will sum it up like this, i think we've covered why youngsters shouldn't juice but let me tell you why someone below the genetic potential shouldn't.
say you are 6 feet and 160 pounds.. you run a cycle and run a perfect PCT and everything goes perfect and you put on 15 pounds of mass. this is the BEST case scenario, when you come off what will happen? 3 possibilities.
1. you totally 100% commit to bodybuilding and you keep cycling and eventually get to 200 pounds (keep in mind you could of easily gotten to 200 pounds at that height had you used supps, diet, and workouts to get there)
2. you come off and you no longer feel like superman and you give up and promply lose all your gains and you just risked your HPTA health and wasted time and money on a cycle for nothing
3. you lose most of your gains cause you are not able to mantain an anabolic/androgenic body cause you don't eat enough and don't really know how to workout.. even though you still go to the gym here and there.
i've seen a lot of option 2 amongst friends who juiced. they look WORSE now than they did before cycle
now the WORST case scenario..
you don't gain anything just like thousands of guys (just look at all the threads of people who post that they are on week 4 and nothing), you get gyno.. you lose your libido.. you feel like crap for months.
then usually this happens
1. you come on a message board and ask for help wishing you had done that first and learned and listened to vets in the first place
2. you continue running a cycle immediately after, then after a year or two you decide to throw in the towel and just go on HRT at 30 years old, your hpta is shot to hell and your anabolic receptors are burned out.
keep in mind 95% of the AAS forum cycles according to the last poll conducted. very few guys are actually on HRT.. radar is 60 and he still cycles. you can continue cycling for years successfully if you are smart and conservative about your cycles.
say you are 6 feet and 160 pounds.. you run a cycle and run a perfect PCT and everything goes perfect and you put on 15 pounds of mass. this is the BEST case scenario, when you come off what will happen? 3 possibilities.
1. you totally 100% commit to bodybuilding and you keep cycling and eventually get to 200 pounds (keep in mind you could of easily gotten to 200 pounds at that height had you used supps, diet, and workouts to get there)
2. you come off and you no longer feel like superman and you give up and promply lose all your gains and you just risked your HPTA health and wasted time and money on a cycle for nothing
3. you lose most of your gains cause you are not able to mantain an anabolic/androgenic body cause you don't eat enough and don't really know how to workout.. even though you still go to the gym here and there.
i've seen a lot of option 2 amongst friends who juiced. they look WORSE now than they did before cycle
now the WORST case scenario..
you don't gain anything just like thousands of guys (just look at all the threads of people who post that they are on week 4 and nothing), you get gyno.. you lose your libido.. you feel like crap for months.
then usually this happens
1. you come on a message board and ask for help wishing you had done that first and learned and listened to vets in the first place
2. you continue running a cycle immediately after, then after a year or two you decide to throw in the towel and just go on HRT at 30 years old, your hpta is shot to hell and your anabolic receptors are burned out.
keep in mind 95% of the AAS forum cycles according to the last poll conducted. very few guys are actually on HRT.. radar is 60 and he still cycles. you can continue cycling for years successfully if you are smart and conservative about your cycles.
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Thanks fellas I appreciate that. Definitely helped me understand why I shouldn't cycle. Like I said before I've had my test for a year now just arguing with myself back and forth about taking it. I figured how can it not be good for me when all I hear is great things about test. All about building a base for the test to work off of and make sure DIET and Training is on point.
^^^ that and knowledge and experience. its always a good idea to get the facts first and not listen to your buddy at the gym. most guys at the gym are full of it when it comes to advice, there is usually big difference between the advice you give some guy at the gym and what you actually do.
this definately isn't something you want to learn the hard way or on the fly..
this definately isn't something you want to learn the hard way or on the fly..
Faststangxxx
New member
One more thing that no one has mentioned is the strength of the tendons (those things that attach the muscle to the bone). If you have not properly strengthened these tendons along with the muscles, you will tear tendons when you have the new found strength associated with anabolics. At 29, if you had years of experience lifting, I don't think anyone would have a problem recommending a test only cycle. But if you are still new to the gym (which I would define as five years or less), then you should wait. Get strong and big naturally, and you will most likely keep all of those gains if you maintain an active lifestyle. Good luck.
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It's not roid rage, I just don't like you...
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It's not roid rage, I just don't like you...
Just because you started driving a car, it doesn't mean you can race one
I have learned a ton from being a member at Elite. I have to tell you tho reading alot of posts it just makes AAS so tempting and it's hard to fight because when lifting all you wanna do is whatever it takes to get bigger and stronger. Just knowing what I could do it makes it tough not to just jump into a cycle.
Faststangxxx
New member
It's like having a good foundation on a house. You could use the crappy one you already have and hurry up and build a house, risking that it might fall apart.
OR, you could be patient, build the proper foundation under the house, and know it will last forever.
Up to you. But if you weren't going to follow vets advise, why ask in the first place...
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It's not roid rage, I just don't like you...
jondale123
New member
when i was 17 in the gym i was outlifting most the people there not even taking supplements.
I benched 405
squated 765
dl 675
thats playing high school football in 10-11th grade
^^^ yeah and i was strong as hell too at 17, took down 1st in my county, and 8th in my state in powerlifting.. but in my early 30's today I am stronger 
.. i know how to eat, i can afford to eat well, i have superior knowledge, i have experience, and a strong base.
you don't see 17 year olds in the NFL my friend. at 17 you have not fully developed yet, i know it might seem like you have.. just wait till you are older and you will understand. i officiate high school football.. the kids are 17/18.. i remember in high school those kids looked huge to me, today they look scrawny like twigs.
.. i know how to eat, i can afford to eat well, i have superior knowledge, i have experience, and a strong base. you don't see 17 year olds in the NFL my friend. at 17 you have not fully developed yet, i know it might seem like you have.. just wait till you are older and you will understand. i officiate high school football.. the kids are 17/18.. i remember in high school those kids looked huge to me, today they look scrawny like twigs.
jondale123
New member
^^^ yeah and i was strong as hell too at 17, took down 1st in my county, and 8th in my state in powerlifting.. but in my early 30's today I am stronger
you don't see 17 year olds in the NFL my friend. at 17 you have not fully developed yet, i know it might seem like you have.. just wait till you are older and you will understand. i officiate high school football.. the kids are 17/18.. i remember in high school those kids looked huge to me, today they look scrawny like twigs.
well i am 24 now and just in the last year or two thought i was ready for aas...been training with weights since i was ten. i was ten when my dad bout me my first little dumbell set and since then i have been at fairly faithfully ever since. by no means was i argueing you dont get your man strength till late twenties and early thirties. but i also see some men that are older are also using before they meet there genetic potential.
T
tjbr
Guest
I was being sarcastic
Prime age for strength is obviously 30+... Hence the term "man strength" lol
This is exactly the answer I was going to post. Good info here. Having poor tendon and ligament strength can lead to serious injury that can end your bodybuilding career before it even really gets going.
