Debaser said:
Note I am not positive he's a hardgainer, it was just an assumption. It doesn't really matter, and I don't know how tall he is, but most people w/ good genetics who bench 200+ are over 140 lbs. Note I said "most" before some idiots jump on me saying they know so and so powerlifter who benches 500 at that weight, disregarding that they ate a certain way for a weight class.
Indeed. And I thought you qualified your position pretty well. To crucify you for
that assumption is a bit over the top given the subjectivism that proliferates...well, almost
everything outside of the hard sciences and mathmatics. I can't just pick on us bodybuilders there
I must say, when I was still a rank beginner, I weighed about 140 lbs. when I did a 205 lbs. bench press, perhaps 145, but I had a knack for that movement and I was genetically gifted. Plus, my bodyfat was really, really low. I was more muscular three or four months into lifting than a lot of people who've been at it for years.
If only I could've sustained THAT kind of progress, LOL. It'd be, hey, Ronnie--that IS a "light weight baby!"
Anyway, obviously his diet and training need to be in order, or he wouldn't be stuck at that weight. Hannibal I know it's not a set weight for anyone but please it's not fucking 200 lbs unless he has some SERIOUS ISSUES. He sounds like an everyday trainee in a common rut.
I have to agree. I understand Hannibal's thinking; i.e., more can be wrong with someone's progress/lack thereof than simply lifting and training. Things like sleep are variables that can't be ignored.
BUT, even WITH bad sleep habits and, IMO, even with a bad diet, a 16 year old is going to experience some nice strength gains so long as his training is in order. Size is another matter, but we're thinking of bench press strength right now.
And just as you assumed--based on quite a bit of empirical evidence, no doubt, that you've accrued from your own experiences and that of other lifters'--Super Shredder sounds like he was overtraining.
My overtraining assumption was on target, unless you know of a lot of people who can work chest back and arms twice in a 4 day span (while not doing HST).
Bingo.
It's a good assumption. Actually, it's good DEDUCTION.
Take a 200 lbs. bench press
140 lbs. of bodyweight
And you can probably figure that Shredder is young, and has gained quite a bit of strength if not a ton of weight (again, endemic of beginners, who typically enjoy great strength gains but not as much in the way of size, generally speaking).
So far, this is correct. Shred-man is 16.
What are young people prone to do, in almost EVERY case? Overtrain. I've yet to meet many young lifters who didn't embark on a real high volume kick...like I said, they don't yet know to not apply the "more is better" principle to lifting.
Also correct given what big Shred has told us about his training regimen.
So you're batting a thousand!
Shredder has simply reached the point at which he's using poundages that, especially for his age, experience, and bodyweight, necessitate a different approach; obviously, a 200 lb. bench press takes more out of you than 100 lbs. does.
Here are my recommendations super:
Normally I would recommend DC training but that takes extreme focus that I'm not sure you're ready for just yet, so here is what I think...
Agreed. I'd probably wait until I had a good 18 months to two years of sound lifting under my belt prior to starting DC.
Diet:
You need to be getting in at least 250 g of protein a day. I would shoot for more like 300, just because it's pretty easy to hit twice your BW when you weigh 140. Get in a LOT of healthy fats. Minimum 4 tblspoons extra virgin olive oil and 2 tblspoons udo's choice oil a day. Or throw in a couple tblspoons grapeseed oil. You need to primarily load the fat or load the carbs in a meal (protein with every meal) but not both. Try and have the majority of your carb meals in the morning and not at night. Of which you want to concentrate on rice, pasta, and potatoes. Don't forget your veggies. You seem pretty skinny so I might even suggest eating carbs at night too.
Actually, so long as Shredder hits his protein, I wouldn't worry about fats and carbs at X or Y times. At 16, he just needs fuel and lots of it. If at some point fat accumulation gets problematic, I'd recommend that he pay more attention to consuming "good" fats and watching the carbs at nighttime, but until it does...just nail that protein in lots of small servings throughout the day, and beyond that eat to your heart's content, Shredder.
Training:
This is a routine that should have you gaining for quite awhile, it is a simple John Christy routine and should get you started on the right track...
Monday
1. Crunch: 1 x 10
2. Squat: 2 x 5
3. Stiff-legged deadlift: 1 x 10
4. Bench press: 2 x 5
5. Dumbbell rowing: 2 x 5
6. Barbell static grip: 1 x 60 seconds
Thursday
1. Side bend: 1 x 10
2. Deadlift: 2 x 5
3. Press: 2 x 5
4. Standing barbell curl: 2 x 5
5. Standing calf raise: 1 x 10
6. Back extension: 1 x 10
Looks good, though a'la DC training, I would change a few things around in the order of those exercises. For one, I'd do crunches at the very end of the workout.
I'd do bench presses first, then rows, then squats, leaving the most stressful exercise for almost last (such that he's able to put more into the previous sets...once the squats get hard, it'd be next to impossible to bench or row effectively afterwards).
I'd also work those squats similar to the DC style: one set of 6-8, then a death set of 20 reps with your 10-15 rep maximum.
I might also throw in a set of bar dips (striving to add weight...it's a great pec movement and superb way to boost the tris), and ditch the SLDL; doing them and regular deads might be too much in concurrent sessions.
For Thurs., well...that looks pretty doggone good, though for both days I might up those 5 rep exercises to the 6-8 range. I might also have Shredder do two sets of chins that day in lieu of the side bends. The hyperextensions aren't a bad idea but could be superfluous after deads.
"Here's how to perform the routine: Use a weight that you could perform one rep (at most two) beyond the goal rep I've given you. So for the bench press, if you can do 150 pounds for six reps and would fail to get number seven, that's the correct weight. For the grip work, use a weight that you could hold for 65 seconds. Now, on the squat and deadlift, add two pounds per week. On everything else, add one pound (yes, just one little pound)."
Microloading is cool, but Shredder will probably be doing well over 12 reps on a given exercise if he can't add a little more iron at a time. I'd just have him work up to a maximum of 10 reps, then add weight to take him back down to six, work back up to ten, and so on.
I also think that he'd benefit from training 3x weekly...twice a week works for a very small group of guys (Bob Whelan types) but it always left me feeling very deconditioned, even when I did upwards of five to six failure sets/bodypart, lots of negatives, pre-exhaustion supersets, etc.
I like an A-B-A workout similar to DC, where someone will be able to train each bodypart three times in a two week period. The more often Shredder can get in the gym and dig, the better IMO.
I know that breaks with the parameters of said HIT routine, but rules are made to be broken
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