free products for women from primordialperformance

[Sassy69]

I have a couple questions regarding the comments I found on the pp site:

http://www.primordialperformance.com/forum/messages.cfm?threadid=6CA54CEA-1372-5743-E93DA0F12C9EA9A7

Eric's reply to the question of what are advantages & disadvantages of women using dermacrine:




RE: demacrine for women
05/08/07 1:13 PM



I know one woman only 23yrs old who used about 1/3 of the average dose (15 spray pumps) and had significant gains in strength and sexual vigor. Apparently she had a chronically low libido for several years and the Dermacrine made her libido go sky high.

Ive always advised against women using dermacrine due to the risk of increasing facial hair growth, deepening of the voice, ect. However one “side-effect” that is often considered a good thing in controlled moderation is a slight enlargement of the clitoris from a temporary increase in androgen levels. This makes achieving an orgasm considerably easier for most women. Once this change manifests it also tends to be permanent.

-Eric
I'm confused that you guys are promoting this stuff for women and here it states pretty simply that he usually advises against it. Most OTC testosterone boosters and anti-es are NOT recommended for women and state on the labels. If you CHOOSE to try it, that's fine (as w/ AAS) but at that point you do accept the responsiblity of becoming your own personal experiment. You are still messng w/ the balance of your sex hormones and you can't pick & choose the sides & results you want, further because everyone has different balances of those hormones, you can't expect exactly the same & predictable results for every female across the board.

My own personal comment about the 'advantage' of dermacrine regarding clitoral enlargement - ladies PLEASE pay attention to this - this is NOT about your bf or anyone else "putting you" on this stuff - it is YOUR OWN PERSONAL CHOICE because it is YOUR BODY.

I also am not completely convinced about 'better orgasms' from an enlarged clitoris - yes there is more surface area, yes it is more sensitive, but women don't experience orgasms the same as men - there's much more involved.

And regarding the permanent effect of this? Um, its not even "permanent" from steroid use unless you abuse or use for a long time. I'd like to see studies or something that backs up that statement.

 

[LadyRaptor]

eagerly awaiting a response to Sassy's post!!!

 

[Primordial Performance]

I have a couple questions regarding the comments I found on the pp site:

http://www.primordialperformance.com/forum/messages.cfm?threadid=6CA54CEA-1372-5743-E93DA0F12C9EA9A7

Eric's reply to the question of what are advantages & disadvantages of women using dermacrine:




RE: demacrine for women
05/08/07 1:13 PM

I know one woman only 23yrs old who used about 1/3 of the average dose (15 spray pumps) and had significant gains in strength and sexual vigor. Apparently she had a chronically low libido for several years and the Dermacrine made her libido go sky high.

Ive always advised against women using dermacrine due to the risk of increasing facial hair growth, deepening of the voice, ect. However one “side-effect” that is often considered a good thing in controlled moderation is a slight enlargement of the clitoris from a temporary increase in androgen levels. This makes achieving an orgasm considerably easier for most women. Once this change manifests it also tends to be permanent.

-Eric
I'm confused that you guys are promoting this stuff for women and here it states pretty simply that he usually advises against it. Most OTC testosterone boosters and anti-es are NOT recommended for women and state on the labels. If you CHOOSE to try it, that's fine (as w/ AAS) but at that point you do accept the responsiblity of becoming your own personal experiment. You are still messng w/ the balance of your sex hormones and you can't pick & choose the sides & results you want, further because everyone has different balances of those hormones, you can't expect exactly the same & predictable results for every female across the board.

My own personal comment about the 'advantage' of dermacrine regarding clitoral enlargement - ladies PLEASE pay attention to this - this is NOT about your bf or anyone else "putting you" on this stuff - it is YOUR OWN PERSONAL CHOICE because it is YOUR BODY.

I also am not completely convinced about 'better orgasms' from an enlarged clitoris - yes there is more surface area, yes it is more sensitive, but women don't experience orgasms the same as men - there's much more involved.

And regarding the permanent effect of this? Um, its not even "permanent" from steroid use unless you abuse or use for a long time. I'd like to see studies or something that backs up that statement.

Sassy, you are absolutely right. Using a product such as Dermacrine will greatly interfere with your hormone levels. But, I’ve always informed women of the possible risks with Dermacrine. It is no secret that taking and androgenic product such as Dermacrine might increase the rate of virilization. I never came to women telling them that Dermacrine was a completely side-effect free miracle product. Needto thought that presenting the product to the women on this closely knit forum may be a good idea, since there are number of women here that proudly use androgenic/anabolic drugs and are quite experienced with this sort of thing.

So let me say this again -- Dermacrine is not for the casual novice female. If you are an experienced woman who is in touch with your body then it may provide a much needed edge for helping you meet your goals.

On the gentila issue, Id say clitoral enlargement is about 90% permanent. I’ve personally seen the result of this from women who have had enlargement, and stayed enlarged long after the androgens stopped. Admittedly, some of the vigor or sensitivity may eventually decrease after quitting the androgens, but as far as size, once androgen levels go away the genitals stay the same size. (just as a male penis doest revert if T is lowered)

If you can remember the first women that openly posted about her Dermacrine experience. (I believe it was rotten willow?) I gave her a very clear picture of the possible risks, but she insisted on using it anyway and continued to use the product successfully. She kept the dose low and duration short, just as we’ve advised for all women who choose to use the product.

-Pp

 

[2raptors]

VERY GOOD POST GUYS! Very informative...and Sassy being the protector of all!!! I'm glad you posted Sassy...and I'm satisfied with PP's reply! GREAT POST!

hey NEEDTO? You promise me something?

 

[LadyRaptor]

Opps, I was on HIS profile! Great post!

 

[Sassy69]

I guess as sponsors of this forum and ESPECIALLY promoting a product that you've stated fairly regularly is NOT recommended for women, and now you ARE promoting it SPECIFICALLY to women on this board, I'd like to see some more responsible caveats and listing of the issues around this product - i.e. WHY you've regularly NOT recommended it for women. I'm not going to argue anyone's right to choose to use an OTC product but I'm going to put it on YOU and I would've liked to see greater response from admin here about being extremely respectful and careful when it comes to the women of this forum. I didn't see that here and I don't agree that "... contact us and we'll send you a PM w/ the details" as a sufficient statement of the major potential issues related to making an informed decision about use of this product.

Yes it is any lady's choice to try this stuff but just as I stated earlier - it is still hormone therapy of sorts and as such it becomes HER PERSONAL EXPERIMENT as I haven't seen you guys post much of anything that provides any bit of study or sense of what is going on w/ this stuff in a female body.

I would pose to the women who are interested - what is it that makes this interesting to you because the list of sides is very similar to AAS use. But this stuff is OTC and legal. So is it the fact that its legal or its not techinally a steroid or what that makes it ok in your mind to use? I'm certainly not judging - but rather just bringing up the very important need to think about what you put in your body. Many OTC supps can have an effect on your body that you do take responsibility for putting into your body - but when it comes to hormone-related things it becomes a much bigger deal because hormone levels are extremely individual and fundamentally tied to everything that is our well-being, sense of self, mood and sense of balance as well as how our bodies function - so in a sense it is a much bigger deal than other regular OTC supps.

My final question on the subject is related to the components of your "proprietary blend" - how much DHEA & pregnenolone are in this product? I.e. mg of each?

Just doing a quick search on these I came up w/ some refs to consider. I didnt' go into depth looking for journal articles to dispute or anything - simply illustrating the need to consider certain products in light of the female body and what is well and good and what is in the iffy zone.

DHEA:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/dhea.html
http://www.raysahelian.com/dhea.html

Pregnenolone:
http://www.raysahelian.com/pregnenolone.html

So ladies, please feel free to experiment away but ALWAYS consider YOUR BODY first. Its your temple, its what you work so hard to make & keep strong & beautiful. In an environment like this and many other fitness sites, hormones are always near the top of discussion and we happened to have the much more volatile and touchy balance of estro & progesteron and its critical that we respect that balance as much as we hate it for the fat it sticks on our asses & thighs - it also makes us who we are, how we feel, and how we make it through the day. There is not much truly understood or medically documentated so its sort of a crap shoot when you mess w/ it. Just throwing in testosterone doesn't fix everything and it certainly doesn't work like it does for the guys. Respect yourself and your body. Research. Understand. AND THEN make a decision. And don't let or rely on anyone to make that decision for you.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Sassy,

I haven’t recommended the Dermacrine for females because of basic liability issues of such a potentially potent product. I believe there is quite a difference between the middle age mom shopping at Walmart looking for a health product and an experienced and veteran female found on this forum. Needto felt that perhaps there may be a very small market niche found among the women here. I didn’t direct him to market it here nor do I control his posts, so if you feel the original post wasn’t a “sufficient statement” of the products exact effects, I am sorry for that. Many women use DHEA and pregnenolone so Dermacrine is not quite as dramatic as anabolic steroids, nor does our product pose any kind of serious health threat.

Besides, we haven’t given away a single bottle, as I wouldn’t feel comfortable handing out this product to a women unless I was in direct contact with her, and educating her about the possible effects. I think the true disrespect of a women is assuming she doesn’t have her own mind to make her own decisions and perform her own research. We arnt making decisions for anyone.

The information you found on Quackwatch is very bias and one sided (as all their information is). Much of the “scientific” info they provide is a misrepresentation of the truth or a flat-out inaccuracy written by writers who surely have a financial interest in people not using natural remedies. Ive refuted a number of their defaming articles on other forums. (ie, resveratrol)

Anyway, if you have direct questions I would be glad to answer.

To answer your last question, there is 12mg of DHEA and 4.4mg of pregnenolone in each lotion pump of Dermacrine. Keep in mind, since Dermacrine is a topical it is absorbed about 10x more efficiently than an oral.

-Eric

 

[needtogetaas]

besides the thread title says free pp products...we do offer dermatherm and tea-3 as well.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Threads like this are just one great example about what is RIGHT with this forum:

Moderators who are extremely knowledgable and protective of the board members' best interests and an open forum to allow all sides of an issue to be intelligently discussed!

Thanks to Needto and Primordial for bringing these products to the members' attention.

Thanks to Sassy for speaking out and knowing her stuff.

 

[needtogetaas]

Threads like this are just one great example about what is RIGHT with this forum:

Moderators who are extremely knowledgable and protective of the board members' best interests and an open forum to allow all sides of an issue to be intelligently discussed!

Thanks to Needto and Primordial for bringing these products to the members' attention.

Thanks to Sassy for speaking out and knowing her stuff.

its all good. this board and the members always come firsts and we always stand behind that more then any thing...good thread with a lot of great people