For those who stay lean all year

[javaguru]

How many cals in that Bro?

I prefer to go by macronutrient breakdown. If you're dieting, 1.5g protein per pound, 1g cho per pound, and .25g to .4g fat depending on your metabolism. I stay on the low end with fat but get much of it from EFA's. In my case that amounts to about 2,700 Calories a day.

 

[timtim]

i use lower cals when i want to reach my leanest, usually 2100 cals on training days, 1900 on cardio days. i do cardio during this phase 5 to 6 times a week at 45 minutes. when i am done with the leanest phase i up the cals to 2400 on training days and 2100 on cardio days. i do cardio 5 times a week during this period. i stay @ 10% when the cals are higher.

i weigh 180 at my leanest, @ 8% (see abs when not flexed) at 5'5". when i up the cals i get to 185 to 190, @ 11%.

cardio is key. have to do it if your not genetically lean like myself. i did the up and down for years. 5 years ago i stopped and i now look like i am on cycle year round. when i am on i look really good. i like it this way. i dropped 40 pounds in the last 5 years (was 220 at a higher bf for awhile then got tired of looking bloated). used to want to be a monster, not anymore, just muscular and cut now.

 

[Prizz]

Good luck to you bro....can't stress knowing maintenance calories enough. From this stems whatever you want to achieve, maintaining, gaining, or shedding fat. If you do not know this, it gets tough and becomes strictly alot of guesswork.

Some great posts there Lifter, but one factor hasn't been taken into effect here: AAS use..... If you're on a cycle, all the sudden you can gain muscle on your USUAL Maint calories.... Once you learn your metabolism, you will see just how much you can cut your calories, and stay lean, while not losing muscle either.... This is where Body Type comes into play..... Ecto's will require more calories to keep muscle then an Endo would.... This is why people are always saying, everyone is different, cause they are in this aspect..... However, I do agree with Lifter in that you need to find your Maint calories, but AAS use will affect this number, so keep that in mind too....

rizz

 

[lacoste]

Thanks bros..alot of help. I can put on weight and fat very easily so i have to incorporate cardio. But I work 12 hr days with and hour commute on each end so its tough, i can dedicate an 1 hr to 1hr and 15min a day. No more. 45 Minutes of cardio is not going to happen. I've been doing the elliptical for 20mins doing intervals or the treadmill and 3.5mph with 15degree incline after i lift and then 45-60mins on my off days. Will i still get good results but it will just take longer or am i doomed.

 

[timtim]

i did intervals for @ 8 months, wanted to see what the hype was all about. results were ok, not nearly as good as the longer duration lower intensity - i can stay harder and fuller doing the latter. i understand schedule dictates workout routines. see if you like the results of the intervals.

it's all about finding what caloric range works for you. once that is on point, the cardio will work itself out.

good luck.

 

[Lifterforlife]

First off, let me say I agree with timtim's post. To add to that.....

Here is a fascinating study that may help some folks out with cardio. Pre contest, I do just this, as I chronically increase my FO as I lower carbs. Hope this helps.

Official Journal of The
American Society of Exercise Physiologists (ASEP)

ISSN 1097-9751
An International Electronic Journal
Volume 7 Number 1 February 2004

Nutrition and Exercise

CHRONIC SUPPLEMENTATION WITH FISH OIL INCREASES FAT OXIDATION DURING EXERCISE IN YOUNG MEN

DEREK M. HUFFMAN, JODY L. MICHAELSON, TOM R. THOMAS

Exercise Physiology Program, Department of Nutritional Sciences, University of Missouri-Columbia, Columbia, MO 65211

ABSTRACT

CHRONIC SUPPLEMENTATION WITH FISH OIL INCREASES FAT OXIDATION DURING EXERCISE IN YOUNG MEN. Derek M. Huffman, Jody L. Michaelson, Tom R. Thomas. JEPonline. 2004;7(1):48-56. Recent evidence suggests that omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil (FO) stimulate fat oxidation in liver and perhaps skeletal muscle. Our purpose was to examine the effect of an acute high-dose and a chronic low-dose of FO on fat oxidation during exercise. Seven recreationally active males (age 21-27 yr) jogged for 60 min at 60 % VO2max in three trials administered in random order: 1) no meal (NM), 2) 4 h following a high-fat meal (HFM), and 3) 4 h following an isocaloric HFM partly substituted with FO (HFM+FO). The FO supplement contained 60 % eicosapentaenoic acid, and 40 % docosahexaenoic acid. Subjects then supplemented 4 g/day of FO for 3 wk and while remaining on the supplementation regimen, repeated the same three trials in random order. Indirect calorimetry was used for the determination of oxygen consumption, respiratory exchange ratio, and energy expenditure from fat and carbohydrate. Heart rate, and rating of perceived exertion were also monitored for each test. The acute high-dose FO had no significant affect on fat use during exercise. In contrast, chronic supplementation significantly augmented total fat energy expenditure as compared to trials before supplementation in each of the three treatments versus trials prior to chronic supplementation (NM, 269.1 ± 49.8 v. 245.7 ± 36.2 Kcal, P = 0.009; HFM, 295.2 ± 40.2 v. 260.8 ± 36.4, P = 0.001; HFM+FO, 299.0 ± 38.7 v. 280.4 ± 35.9 Kcal, P = 0.002). These data suggest that chronic, but not acute FO supplementation enhanced the contribution of lipid during exercise in young active males.



Omega-3 fatty acids (n-3fa) in the form of fish oil (FO) have garnered much attention for their triglyceride (TG) lowering affect (1,2). The mechanistic action of FO and other n-3fa is believed to involve the suppression of enzymes engaged in TG synthesis and stimulation of beta-oxidation in the liver (1,2). Recent studies have demonstrated novel pathways that polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), and in particular eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) from FO, enhance fatty acid oxidation (3). PUFA such as EPA and DHA are believed to mediate the repartitioning of metabolic fuels by stimulating fatty acid oxidation and ketogenesis, inhibiting fatty acid and TG synthesis, and reducing concentrations of malonyl-CoA. In vitro studies suggest that metabolites of EPA and DHA are more potent activators of fat oxidation than other fatty acids via the binding of the transcription factor, peroxisomal poliferator-activated receptor-alpha (PPAR-á)

 

[fortunatesun]

Omega-3 fatty acids (n-3fa) in the form of fish oil (FO) have garnered much attention for their triglyceride (TG) lowering affect (1,2). The mechanistic action of FO and other n-3fa is believed to involve the suppression of enzymes engaged in TG synthesis and stimulation of beta-oxidation in the liver (1,2). Recent studies have demonstrated novel pathways that polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), and in particular eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) from FO, enhance fatty acid oxidation (3). PUFA such as EPA and DHA are believed to mediate the repartitioning of metabolic fuels by stimulating fatty acid oxidation and ketogenesis, inhibiting fatty acid and TG synthesis, and reducing concentrations of malonyl-CoA. In vitro studies suggest that metabolites of EPA and DHA are more potent activators of fat oxidation than other fatty acids via the binding of the transcription factor, peroxisomal poliferator-activated receptor-alpha (PPAR-á)

Do you suppose, then, that fish oil is superior to even flax or borage oil in fatty acid oxidation?
I'm just curious, as my own experience differs a bit from the study. I've found that even though I supplement with an EFA, I can easily lose a few extra pounds with a diet high in salmon or other fat enriched fish. This differs from the study which reported no change in the acute supplementation group. On the other hand, long term intake of fish oil and/or salmon oil instead of flax had negligable success. This may be due to my somewhat offbeat metabolism or a difference in fresh vs. processed sources.

 

[view]

For those of you who try to stay lean most of the year..say around 10% or less.. what does a typical day look like for you as far as diet goes.

well, staying lean yearround can be a bit complicated at times, but here is how it looks for myself:

(** I should note that for the first time in a few years I am not lean).

you are going to have to adjust your macros accordingly though. I am about 270ish right now (16-17% though, which is about the highest i've ever been -- diet doesn't look like the one below)

meal I
-1.5 cup of oats
-16 egg whites

meal II
-1 whole wheat flax bagel with ANPB
-3 scoops of whey isolate

meal III
-1.5 cup of brown rice
-4 ounce brocolli, 4 ounce carrots
-10 ounce chicken breast

meal IV (pwo)
-16 oz potatoe with ketchup
-10 ounce chicken breast w/ bbq sauce

meal V
-4 oz brocolli, 4 oz carrots
-10 oz salmon fillet

meal VI
-3 scoops whey protein isolate
-1 tbsp flax oil

I train 6 days a week.
-MWF is weights for about an hour.
-tues/thu/sat is cardio for 45 minutes (sometimes AM)

-I'll periodically use clen for a couple weeks, maybe 3-5 grams a day of a nice green tea product for a couple weeks, then take a month off of fat burners.

 

[Lifterforlife]

Do you suppose, then, that fish oil is superior to even flax or borage oil in fatty acid oxidation?

Indeed. Marine sources are always superior in EFA/DHA absorbtion/content. Omega 3's in non marine sources are only 1/15th as effective as omega 3's from marine sources. Flax seed for instances parent is ALA, and this needs to be broken down by the body. It contains only 18 carbons, this is why. The body must make it longer, 20 carbons to become bioactive. Some folks have an impaired ability to do this, and even those who can, the process in and of itself will limit the already available benefits of DHA/EPA of marine sources.

Both actually would probably not be a bad idea.

I'm just curious, as my own experience differs a bit from the study. I've found that even though I supplement with an EFA, I can easily lose a few extra pounds with a diet high in salmon or other fat enriched fish. This differs from the study which reported no change in the acute supplementation group. On the other hand, long term intake of fish oil and/or salmon oil instead of flax had negligable success. This may be due to my somewhat offbeat metabolism or a difference in fresh vs. processed sources.

Good point...I imagine that no matter how you get it, EPA/DHA is superior. I would guess that the study was easier to do with supplements and easier to regulate than with whole foods. As usual, studies are just that, and limited by some things such as you state. But I would believe that generally, this is the case.

 

[Khryz]

Wait, I'm confused - so when and how much Fish Oils should you be taking while dieting?