Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below 
Themachine01
New member
Nelson, I have noticed your opinion on clomid, i feel the same way about the stuff. Besides HCG, what do you like for post cycle?
First Test Proving Clomid Repairs the HPTA in Steroid Abusers
- Thread starter ***
- Start date
In a nutshell...
If you're coming off of a long cycle, (which I don't recomened) use HCG.
If you're prone to gyno, use provion.
Any way you look at it, there coms a time when the HPTA has to take over on its own. In the meantime, as Jetison said, I'm a big believer in using specific herbs to elevate Free T and restore libido.
If you're coming off of a long cycle, (which I don't recomened) use HCG.
If you're prone to gyno, use provion.
Any way you look at it, there coms a time when the HPTA has to take over on its own. In the meantime, as Jetison said, I'm a big believer in using specific herbs to elevate Free T and restore libido.
C
Citruscide
Guest
Nelson... tell us how you really feel about the study. 
I'm not a big clomid fan myself... I'd much prefer Nolva, HCG
C-ditty
I'm not a big clomid fan myself... I'd much prefer Nolva, HCG
C-ditty
I went back and looked at a couple of old papers on nandrolone (Belkien et al., 1984 and Schurmeyer et al., 1984).
In the Belkien study a single 50 mg dose of Deca (ND) suppressed T for up to 20 days. The threshold level of nandrolone in blood to have an effect on T was about 1 nmol/l, which was still present on day 15 after the single 50 mg dose. Blood levels of N peaked 1 day after the single injection at about 4.5 nmol/l and slowly fell to below 1 nmol/l at day 25.
In the Schurmeyer study they administered nandrolone hexoxyphenylpropionate (NP) (mean half-life about 21 d) for 13 weeks. 100 mg/wk first 3 weeks, then 200 mg/wk the next 10 weeks.
Following the last dose, it took 16 weeks for testicular volume to return to baseline, 16 weeks for LH and FSH to get back to baseline, and 24 weeks for T to return to baseline. There was no change in prolactin in this study during N administration. Nandrolone peaked at 20 nmol/l at 13 weeks in the blood, was still at 5 nmol/l and 1 nmol/l, 8 and 16 weeks out, respectively.
The measured half-life of both ND and NP were variable among subjects, 5 - 17d for ND and 4 - 34d for NP. It appears that there is considerable variation in clearance from subject to subject.
W6
In the Belkien study a single 50 mg dose of Deca (ND) suppressed T for up to 20 days. The threshold level of nandrolone in blood to have an effect on T was about 1 nmol/l, which was still present on day 15 after the single 50 mg dose. Blood levels of N peaked 1 day after the single injection at about 4.5 nmol/l and slowly fell to below 1 nmol/l at day 25.
In the Schurmeyer study they administered nandrolone hexoxyphenylpropionate (NP) (mean half-life about 21 d) for 13 weeks. 100 mg/wk first 3 weeks, then 200 mg/wk the next 10 weeks.
Following the last dose, it took 16 weeks for testicular volume to return to baseline, 16 weeks for LH and FSH to get back to baseline, and 24 weeks for T to return to baseline. There was no change in prolactin in this study during N administration. Nandrolone peaked at 20 nmol/l at 13 weeks in the blood, was still at 5 nmol/l and 1 nmol/l, 8 and 16 weeks out, respectively.
The measured half-life of both ND and NP were variable among subjects, 5 - 17d for ND and 4 - 34d for NP. It appears that there is considerable variation in clearance from subject to subject.
W6
M
MohawkMuscle
Guest
I dont use anything!...Never have and never will... I also will never do a large crazy cycle either.
macrophage69alpha
New member
Nelson Montana said:
...nelson... before blaring the trumpet....
in a number of case studies nandrolone, aka deca (though really nandrolone decoanate, if being technical)--- has been shown to suppress the HPTA for 13 months... AFTER CESSATION..
btw- with shorter cycles not involving nandrolone your "recovery theory" may have some weight(though IMHO very limited application).. but clomid therapy does not hurt and in MOST cases it helps and is likely essential..
for optimal and rapid restoration.. clomid (can be used at low dosage EOD during cycle as well..actually beneficial to lipids with aromatase inhibitor use), aromatase inhibitor(before and after..E is responsible for most suppression.. though progestins hit harder), perhaps HCG-- though not really a fan.. as it can in theory cause gyno even with aromatase inhibitors.. in theory.... and a nice dopaminergic (there are a lot so find one that suits you)..
Sure, I guess, depending on dosage and duration, it's possible to be supressed that long, but it's unikely.
It isn't entirely correct that low T and/or suppression is due to high estrogen It's possible to have low E AND low T.
Clomid is good for lipid profiles? Not the studies I've seen. If it lowers estrogen, how can it possibly improve lipid profiles? Clomid is known to raise LDL.
The belief that HCG causes gyno is way overstated. If you take too much too soon the spike in T can cause aromatization, but that can happen with any exo test as well. Small intermitant doses of HCG almost never cause gyno, and if you took proviron along with it , it would be near impossible, unless you're REALLY, REALLY prone to it.
It isn't entirely correct that low T and/or suppression is due to high estrogen It's possible to have low E AND low T.
Clomid is good for lipid profiles? Not the studies I've seen. If it lowers estrogen, how can it possibly improve lipid profiles? Clomid is known to raise LDL.
The belief that HCG causes gyno is way overstated. If you take too much too soon the spike in T can cause aromatization, but that can happen with any exo test as well. Small intermitant doses of HCG almost never cause gyno, and if you took proviron along with it , it would be near impossible, unless you're REALLY, REALLY prone to it.
macrophage69alpha
New member
Nelson Montana said:
YES
in every study clomiphene and tamoxifen reduced LDL and raised HDL
clomid and tamoxifen are SERMS, they niether raise nor lower estrogen. they are mixed agonist/antagonists of the estrogen receptor..
Citruscide said:
How do you use Nolva post cycle (dosgase, for how long)? I don't like clomid anymore, because although it seems to work for me, I get terrible acne. I remeber reading that Nolva @ 20mg ED should be as effective as clomid, but I would like to hear from someone who has actually tried it.
macro: I'll take your word for it. But that's the thing with Clomid. It seems as if every study has another to disprove the last one. I've seen studies that show it raises, LH, others that show a lowering. Same thing with SHBG. Sometimes lower, sometimes higher. Same thing with estrogen. I don't have the scientific reason behind this,(Huck? Fonz?) but I do know it has equally unpredictable effects on those who use it. Some people get a boost in libido, others a drop. It restores some guys, while supresses others. I don't exactly know the process/pathway for this but I do know if you're on the losing side of it, it really sucks. And besides, as I've contended before, it isn't needed nearly as much as people believe it is -- even if it works for you.
