Fina vs. 1-AD

[wardog]

I have a question for the boards here. I just came off a GREAT 6 week transdermal fina/4-ad cycle, and I am looking at what to do for the next cycle when Feb/March rolls around. Now, obviously their respective companies are hyping Mag-10 and One like they are legal roids. Being a poor sap who lived thru cybergenics and Hot Stuff, I am just a teeny tiny bit jaded, but curious. What do you guys think is going to be more effective?

#1 A fina/4-AD transdermal cycle again.
#2 Trying a Mag-10 cycle
#3 A "One" cycle
#4 a fina/1-AD/4AD topical cycle

Now if I remember correctly, 1-AD is a class 1, as is tren, so I dont think combining them would make things any more effective, but you may know more than I do here..so thats why I am asking.

Obviously, I LOVED topical fina, so I am leaning in that direction, however, I am looking for what eveyone else thinks..costwise..all these options are close to the same..I am just looking for effectiveness..so please..give me some input!!

 

[ISN_Man]

#4 a fina/1-AD/4AD topical cycle

Sounds like the way to go dude. I bet you make f'ing awesome gains off that stack!!! Let us know what you decide man.

p.s. - any nasty side effects off using fina???

 

[wardog]

No nasty sides at all bro..except my balls fell off half way thru the cycle...but that was my fault. I did an 8 week cycle, and put on 25 pounds in the first three weeks, with about an inch of that around my waist. It was at that point I lost my balls, and started cutting down trying to shed the BF because I had heard that too many people try to lose it after their cycle and end up losing their gains also. Anyway, I am still unbelievably pleased with this last cycle, coming away from it probably with 10 pounds of new LBM, but also a LOT lower in bodyfat than when I started..probably around 7% now. So overall, could I have put on more size with this cycle..absolutely. However, I am probably the best shape I have ever been in right now, so I am really pleased.

Now sideswise, some issues I did find were of course, a bit of hairloss(I am prone to mpb) and definete increased aggression. The feeling I got from the tren was unbelievable..I wanted to fuck anything female that moved, and felt like I could kick any guys ass to get to the female!! Overall, it was all good.

 

[growin']

I'd opt for a cycle of "ONE" or a cycle of injetable fina.

 

[the nature boy]

BTW you can use fina transdermally, granted it's not as effective, but still it works pretty good. At least I hope, hint hint.

 

[riskybizz007]

I'd go for #4 fina/1AD/androspray

 

[the nature boy]

I'd go for #4 fina/1AD/androspray

trust me bro you don't need to add the 1AD, for financial reasons. Fina is all you need, and a good transdermal carrier.

 

[wardog]

Thanks for all the replys so far. So Natureboy, you do not think the addition of 1-test will improve the cycle? I was contemplating going with an 8 week cycle..6 weeks bulking and 2 weeks cutting, using the fina, 4-AD and 1-test for the first six weeks, then going with just the fina and 4-AD for the cutting..since Tren ROCKS for cutting!! What is it that makes you feel the addition of the 1-test would not be advantageous?

Also, what else could I do to improve the absorption? Last time I used androsol with 20ml of IPM to increase the absorption. Is there anything else I could do to improve it further??

Thanks!!

 

[the nature boy]

Actaully I'd use just the tren only for cost reasons if that was a factor. That's why I said to not use the 1-test. Actually I'd like to try it and see how it worked with tren. I'd be curious to see how they interact with each other. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd do tren with either the 1-AD (although I've lost my gains but kept my strenght) or the 1 test (which I havent used). I'd actually do it with the 1 - test because par deus and his folks run a very good shop and are extrememly responsive to any emails I've sent. I'd rather give my money them then some 1-AD reseller.

 

[Par Deus]

Thanks for all the replys so far. So Natureboy, you do not think the addition of 1-test will improve the cycle?

1-test and fina are quite likely very similar, qualitatively and quantitatively, so there is no reason to do both.

The choice is one of legality and price.

 

[the nature boy]

1-test and fina are quite likely very similar, qualitatively and quantitatively, so there is no reason to do both.

The choice is one of legality and price.

would the 1-test help out with any of the sexual sides experienced with using fina? Thanks

 

[Par Deus]

would the 1-test help out with any of the sexual sides experienced with using fina? Thanks

No, that is lack of estrogen and 1-test does not aromatize. 4-AD or even "andro" would help.

ParDeus
Big Mf'r #4 -- Now on-line!
www.avantlabs.com

 

[macrophage69alpha]

No, that is lack of estrogen and 1-test does not aromatize. 4-AD or even "andro" would help.

ParDeus

sexual side effects of trenbolone are unrelated to Estrogen... they are PR related.. Progesterone is very important in arousal(partially due to its regulation of GABA)... TREN is a mixed PR agonist/antagonist...

Keep in mind that TREN INCREASES sex drive in some... due to a variance in PR isoforms.

 

[pa1ad]

. I'd rather give my money them then some 1-AD reseller.

Yeah, like that bastard Ed Sturm. We all know what a greedy ungrateful prick he is

 

[pa1ad]

sexual side effects of trenbolone are unrelated to Estrogen... they are PR related.. Progesterone is very important in arousal(partially due to its regulation of GABA)... TREN is a mixed PR agonist/antagonist...

Keep in mind that TREN INCREASES sex drive in some... due to a variance in PR isoforms.

OK then, where can one read more about this? Frankly, I am skeptical of everything you just said. Also, it is my understanding that trenbolone is not progestational in the first place

Did you know that progesterones effects on GABA receptors are NOT due to binding to the progestrerone receptor? They are due to non-genomic effects from specific ring A saturated progesterone metabolites , so even if trenbolone were an agonist of the PR and everything else you said were true, your theory just went down the toilet there

 

[the nature boy]

I'm a little confused here myself, because from user feedback a lot of users said fina gave then unwanted sexual sides, so of course they said USE TEST!!!

Is tren good or bad for sexual function.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

OK then, where can one read more about this? Frankly, I am skeptical of everything you just said. Also, it is my understanding that trenbolone is not progestational in the first place

there are a couple of other studies that confirm this but will have to post them later



Characterisation of the affinity of different anabolics and synthetic hormones to the human androgen receptor, human sex hormone binding globulin and to the bovine progestin receptor.

Bauer ER, Daxenberger A, Petri T, Sauerwein H, Meyer HH.

Institut fur Physiologie, Research Center for Milk and Food Weihenstephan, Technical University Munich, Germany.

For the steroidal growth promoters trenbolone acetate (TBA) and melengestrol acetate (MGA) neither the complete spectrum of biological activities nor the potential endocrine disrupting activity of their excreted metabolites in the environment is fully understood. The potency of these substances in [3H]dihydrotestosterone ([3H]-DHT) displacement from the recombinant human androgen receptor (rhAR) and from human sex-hormone binding globulin (hSHBG) was evaluated. In addition, the potency for [3H]-ORG2058 displacement from the bovine uterine progestin receptor (bPR) was tested. For comparison, different anabolics and synthetic hormones were also tested for their binding affinities. For 17beta-trenbolone (17beta-TbOH), the active compound after TBA administration, an affinity the rhAR similar to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and a slightly higher affinity to the bPR than progesterone were demonstrated. . The affinity of the two major metabolites, 17alpha-trenbolone and trendione, was reduced to less than 5% of the 17beta-TbOH-value. The affinity of these three compounds and of MGA to the hSHBG was much lower compared with DHT. MGA showed a 5.3-fold higher affinity than progesterone to the bPR but only a weak affinity to the rhAR. The major MGA metabolites have an affinity to the bPR between 85% and 28% of the affinity of progesterone. In consequence, MGA and TBA metabolites may be hormonally active substances, which will be present in edible tissues and in manure. We conclude that detailed investigations on biodegradation, distribution and bio-efficacy of these substances are necessary.

 

[pa1ad]

there are a couple of other studies that confirm this but will have to post them later



Characterisation of the affinity of different anabolics and synthetic hormones to the human androgen receptor, human sex hormone binding globulin and to the bovine progestin receptor.

OK, trenbolone might very well have progestational activity. Your theory on libido is still flawed however, because the psychoactive effects of progesterone are 1) not mediated through progesterone but through certain metabolites, and 2) are not mediated through the progesterone receptor.

 

[pa1ad]

I'm a little confused here myself, because from user feedback a lot of users said fina gave then unwanted sexual sides, so of course they said USE TEST!!!

Is tren good or bad for sexual function.

I am not debating whether or not tren reduces libido, rather I am debating the cause of the libido decrease

Tren, like 1-AD, reduces libido most likely because it reduces estrogen output in the body. Either that or some mechanism I have not considered

 

[growin']

Tren, like 1-AD, reduces libido most likely because it reduces estrogen output in the body. Either that or some mechanism I have not considered

So 1AD would be a good addition to 4AD in order to minimize/reduce bloat induced by excess estrogen?

 

[wardog]

In reguards to sexual side effects, I can only speak from my personal experience in that I found it to have both positive and negaitive effects. On the positive side, I found the additional aggression to put me more in a "menal" sexual mood, with feelings of a lot more mental sexual stimulation. The feeling of male dominance made me want to jump every cutie around, abeit more in a control/force way then an intimate/romantic way. On the negative side, I found it hard to maintain an erection towards the end of the cycle unless me and the little one were being quite rough. (Which is okay because we like things that way) If we went for a slow and easy evening, I would have a hard time getting/maintaining an erection.

Just my personal experience.

 

[pa1ad]

So 1AD would be a good addition to 4AD in order to minimize/reduce bloat induced by excess estrogen?

The way I see 1-AD reducing estrogen is by reducing the production of estrogen precursors int the body (testosteorne etc) through negative feedback inhibition. So basically your testosterone gets replaced in your system by a non-aromatizable androgen (1-AD, 1-test)

I don't think that 1-AD is going to do much to counteract the estrogen from co-administered 4-AD though.

I hope this makes sense. Keep reading it until it does

 

[Par Deus]

I don't think that 1-AD is going to do much to counteract the estrogen from co-administered 4-AD though.

Doesn't the androgen to estrogen ratio have alot to do with the manifestation of estrogenic effects (as opposed to E, per se)

ParDeus
Big Mf'r #4 -- Now on-line!
www.avantlabs.com

 

[pa1ad]

Doesn't the androgen to estrogen ratio have alot to do with the manifestation of estrogenic effects (as opposed to E, per se)

ParDeus
Big Mf'r #4 -- Now on-line!
www.avantlabs.com

Looking at it in that respect then i would say that 1-AD would help to mitigate some of the feminizing effects of estrogen. I would say that if you were to put one guy on 1mg of estrogen a day and one guy on the estrogen plus 1-AD then the latter guy would be less likely to get bitch tits