Fat

[offtapper]

PLEASE HELP!!

I have now been on stanazol for three weeks in the hope to reduce my body fat!
Thus far I have not seen any positive results, I train twice daily morning and night with a combination of cardio and weight training (mainly cardio approx a 70/30 split).
My diet is very strict eg keeping carbs low, correct protien etc.
My dosage of Stanazol has been 1cc twice a week, Is this enough?
I also have a dose of Sustanon "100" once every three weeks, Is this ok?
PLEASE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

 

[wilson6]

My advice is that you shouldn't be taking steroids.

W6

 

[HardIron]

I agree w/ w6....it is not a magic pill...nor does it happen over night. Why are you training so much?? Training several times a day does not build muscle or make u leaner...it actually is going to wear u down and do the opposite. What exactly are you eating??? How much cardio? Are you training heavy? How long have you been training?

 

[Bikini Mod]

Steroids aren't fat burners. I'd hate to see you grow a beard and not even get any cake out of the deal.

What he said AND what she said.

 

[wilson6]

I was thinking about this thread today, I'm thinking this is someone from the men's board playing games with us. Too far fetched to be an honest question.

W6

 

[NubianBeauty]

@ spatts

w6, I have seen this type of question on just about EVERY board I have visited MANY women seem to think that Winstrol burns fat.... and I bet 9 times out of 10 some guy has told them that.

 

[offtapper]

Ok now don't treat me like a naive trainer, Ive been training since 1982!
All this time I have been natural up until three weeks ago, the reason being is that in the past year no matter how hard i try i have developed a level of softness which i cant get rid of.
This is why i have willingly started to try winstrol 50mg/ml (1cc twice a week)
I just want some advice from a female that has been successful with a problem such as mine!

 

[SteelWeaver]

Nice post, pops

Yo, offt ... could you post your diet, training etc. for us? I guarantee, if you help yourself by helping the board members to know your situation better, you will be WAAYY ahead of the game

And welcome to the best women's board on the net - you came to the right place.

 

[MS]

"Ok now don't treat me like a naive trainer, Ive been training since 1982!"

Would you mind sharing with us how old you are, what kind of training you've been doing, what you have achieved (in terms of goals) since 1982, and what you goals are now?? Pretty please

I'll also lend support to everyone else's input that winny is not a fat burner, and both winny and sust can make a woman gain a lot of water weight which is hard to differentiate from fat gain unless you're measuring body composition very accurately. # weeks is also not long enough to gauge very much at all when it comes to AAS, fatloss or muscle gains.

Then there is the question of where did you get your steroids from, and do you know for sure they're what they claim to be and at the dose they claim to be?

 

[Robert Jan]

Shit, Wilson, if we didn't have alter egos, bouncing IPs in the Asian Pacific, people who post from randomly assigned server #'s, masked IPs (which are actually pretty obvious to spot), etc., we might just find out there are really only about 10 of us on Elite. LOL

tsss just go and blame it all on us right. shes just wrong in the first place for not finding stuff out herself

 

[wilson6]

OK OT,

If you've been training since 1982, based on your original question, you're knowledge is limited with regard to diet, training and AAS.

I'd suggest the archives here (searches) to begin with. Most of what you ask has been discussed at length.

But to touch on some of this again.

"I have now been on stanazol for three weeks in the hope to reduce my body fat!"

1) It will take at least 4 - 6 weeks to begin to see the cosmetic effects of AAS.

2) While some AAS have been shown to be lipolytic in the literature (and this gets very complex in terms of mechanisms), AAS are not simply taken for the purpose of getting leaner. These drugs have significant side effects and the doses you're taking are likely to produce them (do a search). Moreover, those sides don't become evident for a few weeks and become more progressive over time.

"Thus far I have not seen any positive results, I train twice daily morning and night with a combination of cardio and weight training (mainly cardio approx a 70/30 split)."

Your split should be 30/70, cardio/resistance respectively, and the resistance should be a serious bodybuilder/power style routine. Yes you're going to put on muscle, but you'll also get leaner.

"My dosage of Stanazol has been 1cc twice a week, Is this enough? I also have a dose of Sustanon "100" once every three weeks, Is this ok?"

That total dose is about what clinicians would a give a female to male transsexual to fully virilize her to a man over a period of a few months.

Is that OK?

Better do some more research and get off the juice.

You could probably meet most of your goals with a change in diet (rotating carbs) and a hard core bodybuilder style training program, and how do you define correct protein?

W6

 

[offtapper]

Ok ill let out my best kept secret i'm 44!
My eating plan is the following
the average day
coffee - Morn
tuna - Mid Morn
Vegies - Lunch
Chicken / Rice- Dinner

My training is the following

Mon - Cardio

Tues - Cardio (morn)
Chest (night)

Wed - Cardio (morn)
Back (night)
Cardio(night)

Thurs - Cardio (morn)
Shoulders (night)
Cardio (night)

Fri - Cardio(morn)
Arms (Night)
Cardio (night)

Sat - Cardio (morn)

 

[starfish]

Ok ill let out my best kept secret i'm 44!
My eating plan is the following
the average day
coffee - Morn
tuna - Mid Morn
Vegies - Lunch
Chicken / Rice- Dinner

That is your problem. You need to eat.

I'm sure Spatts will post her example diet. She is good at that.

 

[NubianBeauty]

Ok ill let out my best kept secret i'm 44!
My eating plan is the following
the average day
coffee - Morn
tuna - Mid Morn
Vegies - Lunch
Chicken / Rice- Dinner

You only have Coffee for breakfast then Tuna? Only veggies for lunch? Only chicken and rice for dinner? Where's the FOOD?!! Where's your PROTEIN? IMO your metabolism is... well, you have NO metabolism

My training is the following

Mon - Cardio

Tues - Cardio (morn)
Chest (night)

Wed - Cardio (morn)
Back (night)
Cardio(night)

Thurs - Cardio (morn)
Shoulders (night)
Cardio (night)

Fri - Cardio(morn)
Arms (Night)
Cardio (night)

Sat - Cardio (morn)

I'm not even going to try and analyze your training, I'll let spatts take care of this.

 

[MS]

Yes, at your age and eating/cardio habits it will be very hard for you to lose fat. I REALLY think it would be to your advantage to get your training and diet sorted out before you take AAS. You need more protein, probably carb cycling and maybe more total calories to get your metabolism going again. This board offers you the perfect opportunity to optimize your diet and training. So use us to your advantage and save your liver and facial hair from improper use of winstrol/sust!

 

[MS]

Oh, BTW, there was a study done ages ago to see if there was any benefit in giving older folks winstrol to help them rehabilitate from injuries. Paradoxically, these patients gained nothing but FAT weight and no fluid or muscle weight after 4 months of winstrol. Just goes to show that what may work for your average 25 year old healthy chick, may have just the opposite effect as you get 'older' (I'm also 44).

There are other studies that show that even young males don't lose fat on winstrol if they are doing lots of cardio. No doubt this is true for women too, though I don't know of any studies that have looked at it specifically in women.

Get your diet and training sorted out!!!!!!!!

 

[MS]

(duplicate)

 

[fitmedic]

offt, looks like your antagonizing the effects of the winni...youre cardio-ing yourself to death. 2 x/day?!!!!##@^ ...and another BIG thing... what your entire daily caloric intake is, I have at one sitting! girl you need to eat, train HEAVIER than you thought possible (2-6 reps) and cut back on that cardio. the muscle you gain WILL replace the fat-eventually. it takes a while-be patient. and be careful with that winni. you dont wanna have to add triming your beard to your morning bathroom habits...

 

[Temple]

Oh, BTW, there was a study done ages ago to see if there was any benefit in giving older folks winstrol to help them rehabilitate from injuries. Paradoxically, these patients gained nothing but FAT weight and no fluid or muscle weight after 4 months of winstrol. Just goes to show that what may work for your average 25 year old healthy chick, may have just the opposite effect as you get 'older' (I'm also 44).

There are other studies that show that even young males don't lose fat on winstrol if they are doing lots of cardio. No doubt this is true for women too, though I don't know of any studies that have looked at it specifically in women.

Get your diet and training sorted out!!!!!!!!

Could the "fat effect" in older women apply to other AAS or is it limited to winny IYO?? I am 40 (as most of you know) and did not see fat gain on winny, got rather good results. Deca on the other hand seems to pack on the pounds and they are FAT pounds with no appreciable change in diet or training.

 

[MS]

"Could the "fat effect" in older women apply to other AAS or is it limited to winny IYO?"

Most AAS can cause a redistribution in fat (from sub-Q to visceral) at any age. Many women are temporarily happy with this since that kinda redistribution in fat=lean thighs and butt (traded off with a beer belly!!).

The age thing is not clear. Without a doubt, somewhere past 40 drug metabolism changes (for the worse). But in general, AAS such as nandrolone AND winny are at least anabolic, though total fat mass may stay the same if your diet's not in order, you should at least gain SOME muscle. Other than that, there was one study that gave deca to elderly frail women with hip fractures. It basically didn't do anything (good or bad) to their body comp at a whopping 2mg/kg/week (this works out to 120mg per week for a 130lb female !!!!!).

Of course, if diet and training is not in order, then you can easily gain fat on ANY AAS at ANY age. This is kinda what this thread is really about. Getting priorities sorted out.

Anecdotally a lot of women complain about fluid gain with deca. There is still soooooo much we don't know about synthetic AAS, for instance there may be some folks (due to genetic reasons) whose bodies perceive deca as basically progesterone which is only mildly anabolic but very good at packing on the fat! Of course, if this is what your body is 'seeing' when you take deca, you would normally also expect some fluid retention. The best advice is to avoid it if you know for sure it doesn't work well for you. BUT make sure this is based on solid, reliable, body composition measurements rather than just feeling 'fat' like most women are prone to when in fact they are just premenstrual and retaining fluid.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Oh dear....

This is my first time viewing this thread, and all I can say is:

1.) You need to eat MORE FOOD!!!. I would higly recommend reading Spatt's thread on diet and training. Before I forget, SPATTS...I have printed this workout/diet scheme for a couple of females that have asked for "quick" and "easy" advice on how to train and lose fat, and all love it. I'd say i've printed it out for around ~5 females over my last semester in school. Normally, I would just help them out, but this was a pretty busy fall semester for myself and I didn't have time for that (Medical and diet therapy classes...). Therefore, in regards to them, Thanks for making it easy on myself for them.

2.) This thread is the perfect opportunity to print out for others to read. This thread has a lot of overlooked valuable info that would definately help others OUTSIDE of these boards as well. A lot of this info is easy for a lot of us that have dealt with it personally or through literature, and it can be really helpful on showing how a "mature" female can change for positively for better health.

3.) I agree with Wilson6, Spatt's, Bikinimom, etc....I'm getting softer, but wiser, on ever...ever...recommending anabolics for women, unless it is for medical purposes. Also, I will never suggest anything outside of ANAVAR for women!!! Test, deca, Eq, Anadrol etc...come second. I mean, lets face it, 99% of you women will NEVER, EVER be professional bodybuilders. Therefore, it would really be unwise to use anything outside of anavar unless you have some experience behind ya. Same goes for 99.5% of us males, except you females are a bit more harder to predict for sides and recovery due to the lack of research, etc... Unless ya'll mke a 100% dedicated effort to go pro, then why risk the sides. Also, at only 10-20mg's per day of RAVANA, a bottle would last forever, so this really helps in the cost factor.

4.) FOOD REEEE-VISITED: Maa'm, you are probably only eating close around 500 calores per day. Try taking your bodyweight and multiplying it by 12-14. For example, if you weigh 120 pounds, this would be 120 x 14 = 1680 calories for the day. This is is just another suggestion to go along with Spatt's suggestion. Damn, I almost have to think that you are yankin' our chains on this post because at that calorie level, I wouldn't be surprised if your energy levels lasted all of 2 minutes befoe you wanted to die from exhaustion, etc....Definately work on gaining muscle, as Wilson6 mentoned, you wouldn't believe how much this will help you out.

Well, I don't really have much more to add that hasn't already been mentioned. Good luck and let us all know wht you plan on doing.

BMJ

 

[FitFossil]

Are you currently taking any other kinds of hormones, medications, or supplements? Certain ones can contribute to weight gain or hinder fat loss.

I 2nd, 3rd, and 4th everyone elses' advice. If you really want to get lean and stay lean, you definitely need more food, more weight training, and less cardio. A few years ago, these folks told me the exact same thing! It didn't seem possible that I could eat more, do less cardio and actually lose fat - but IT IS - it's true!! The diet industry won't tell you this, because they'd lose all their repeat business that they survive on. This board has nothing to gain from giving bad advice. Thank God I listened (I really didn't want to) but what used to work for me when I was younger was no longer working, and I was desperate.

As it is now, eating so few calories and doing so much cardio, your body is in stress/starvation mode. This makes your body attempt to hold onto bodyfat and preferentially direct more incoming calories to fat. It will also burn muscle so it can lower your metabolism. Less food and/or more exercise isn't always the way to lose more fat; the body has a limit to what it can stand.

By eating sufficient calories/nutrients and shifting your emphasis to weights rather than cardio, you'll be able to build muscle. This is not to say you can't do cardio, just do less and spend more time/effort on weights. The added muscle will raise your metabolism and make fat burning easier. Plus, training when your body is sufficiently nourished will allow you to train at a much higher level, giving you more bang for your training buck.

 

[MrStamina]

Maybe your not fat?????

 

[SteelWeaver]

I thought all women were too fat.

Except me! It's just that the REST of the world is too SMALL!

 

[offtapper]

other hormones

I failed to mention in my post that I have been on the Progesterone shot for a few years now and everything was great,
But when the Progesterone Implant came out down here in Australia my Doc recommended that I try that. Which I did! but as it turned out the implant was not strong enough, so my doc started giving me the shot again without taking the implant out. He kept reassuring me that there was nothing wrong with this and I am not "overdosing" on progesterone. Untill a year later when all of this fat started to pile on, So I eventually convinced the doc to remove the implant 35 weeks ago!

Could this be a reason to my sudden fat gain?

Cheers for the advise so far

 

[offtapper]

SPATTS

The link to your diet etc was not working could you please post it again?

 

[FitFossil]

Re: other hormones

I failed to mention in my post that I have been on the Progesterone shot for a few years now and everything was great,
But when the Progesterone Implant came out down here in Australia my Doc recommended that I try that. Which I did! but as it turned out the implant was not strong enough, so my doc started giving me the shot again without taking the implant out. He kept reassuring me that there was nothing wrong with this and I am not "overdosing" on progesterone. Untill a year later when all of this fat started to pile on, So I eventually convinced the doc to remove the implant 35 weeks ago!

Could this be a reason to my sudden fat gain?

Cheers for the advise so far

By "Progesterone Shot", do you mean Depo-Provera (birth control shot)?

 

[offtapper]

Re: Re: other hormones

By "Progesterone Shot", do you mean Depo-Provera (birth control shot)?

Yeah!

 

[SteelWeaver]

Ah.

Yup. That'll make you fat quicker than you can say "so long, six-pack!"

 

[FitFossil]

Depo Provera is fondly known as "fat in a syringe". Women who can actually tolerate this form of birth control w/o significant weight gain are definitely few and far between.

One thing you need to be aware of: neither Depo-Provera nor "the Progesterone Implant" have anything to do with Progesterone - they are progestins (also refered to as progestogens), synthetic pharmaceutical compounds. It is not by accident that the names are so similar. Even though their chemical structure differs only slightly from a woman's natural progesterone, it has a very different effect in the body.

The main function of Progesterone is to support the developing fetus. Conversely, the function of Progestin is to prevent pregnancy. You'll be surprised how many Dr's do not understand the difference between Progesterone and progestins. One doctor even said to me "They're pretty much the same, except by a molecule or two..." (Right, like men and women are pretty much the same except for that one little chromosome... )

Just about all forms of hormonal birth control can hamper weight loss efforts, whether due to the extra estrogen, which tells our bodies to store fat, or the progestins which suppress our natural progesterone, causing water retention and possible metabolic changes.

 

[MS]

I also wouldn't touch Depo-Provera with 10-foot pole! However since the implant was removed 35 weeks ago, I can't really believe that's the cause of ther sudden weight gain although some rebound coming off birth control is normal. Are you using anything now for birth control offtapper???

"The main function of Progesterone is to support the developing fetus. Conversely, the function of Progestin is to prevent pregnancy....."

Looks like a bit of semantic juggling to me. Progestins merely convince your body that you are already pregnant so there is no need to menstruate or ovulate. You would get the same effect if you gave a similar dose of natural progeseterone. There are some subtle differences, but in terms of fat gain and bloating they all act like progesterone. The only reasons natural progesterone are used for birth control is that they are difficult to dose orally, and there's little money to be made from a pharmaceutical point of view. Otherwise I think you would find natural progesterones would be used a lot more.

""They're pretty much the same, except by a molecule or two..."

Semantics again. Testosterone is pretty much like testosterone enanthate, and winstrol is pretty much like DHT. The first two are pretty much interchangeable in the body, the second two are less not really the same thing at all......

And women are pretty much like men if you give them enough test

 

[wilson6]

"And women are pretty much like men if you give them enough test"

Nope. Aside from more muscle, they still act like chicks. Can't change that with any drug.

W6

 

[MS]

What happens if you give a guy estrogen and chop off his testicles????? Does he suddenly develop urges to 'shop-til-s/he-drops', gossip for hours on end and have fat days??? Or does he continue to have an inability to focus on more than one task at a time, and a pathological desire to watch sports on TV while channel surfing?

 

[offtapper]

TO MS

In answer to your question yes I am using birthcontrol, still the depo shot. But I thought that everything would be going back to normal after the implant was removed, but this is not the case!

 

[Nonerz]

What happens if you give a guy estrogen and chop off his testicles????? Does he suddenly develop urges to 'shop-til-s/he-drops', gossip for hours on end and have fat days??? Or does he continue to have an inability to focus on more than one task at a time, and a pathological desire to watch sports on TV while channel surfing?

 

[MS]

"I am using birthcontrol, still the depo shot"

Oh dear. Your poor body is probably totally confused by now. You see, winstrol is an ANTI-progesterone, and you're dumping it in on top of progestenic birth control. I have no idea what this combination of drugs could be doing to your body, but I strongly urge you to stop the winny (if you haven't already), AND rethink you birth control method. Depo provera really doesn't agree with many women, and if the dose is too high your body may think it's fully pregnant and make you store fat easily (as well as increasing hunger).