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EQ + Test Cyp

Lab_Wizard

New member
6'1"
245 lbs. (guessing at 18% bf)

This is my first serious cycle. Others I have done half ass and cant really count them. I am looking to put on 10-15lbs. and get bf to 10%.

Week 1-16 600mg/week EQ
Week 1-10 250mg/week Test cyp

Nolva and hcg for PCT.

Fairly straight forward, but was questioning when I should start/end the test.
 
Run the test cyp as long as you run the EQ...it makes no sense to drop it beforehand. EQ and cyp will both take a couple of weeks to clear before you can start PCT.
 
canadianhitman said:
Run the test cyp as long as you run the EQ...it makes no sense to drop it beforehand. EQ and cyp will both take a couple of weeks to clear before you can start PCT.

Ok to run test for 16 weeks?

So start nolva/hcg 2 weeks after ending EQ and test?

Thanks!
 
Run them for equal lengths. IMO 16 weeks is a long cycle. I keep mine to 12 and have run that combo (only w/Enath not cyp) w/good results for that duration.
 
you taking anything else at all? you want to get your bf down 8%??? don't know if that can happen UNLESS you eat very very clean.
 
Lab_Wizard said:
6'1"
245 lbs. (guessing at 18% bf)

This is my first serious cycle. Others I have done half ass and cant really count them. I am looking to put on 10-15lbs. and get bf to 10%.

Week 1-16 600mg/week EQ
Week 1-10 250mg/week Test cyp

Nolva and hcg for PCT.

Fairly straight forward, but was questioning when I should start/end the test.

I doubt you'll get down to 10% bodyfat while putting on 10-15 lbs of muscle. Very, very hard...

You can go lower with the EQ and get the same results... 500mg should be perfectly fine at your weight.

Run the test at at least 500mg per week.

Your cycle is fairly long. I would plan it for 12 weeks, stopping the testosterone 1 week, and the EQ approx. 2 weeks before PCT. If @ 12 weeks you're still gaining, keep going. Otherwise, just stop.
 
WannaBeBig72 said:
Isn't the Test a little low for your first serious cycle?

Nah man, I am only adding it to keep my girl satisfied mainly !! LOL

Im already a big boy and have no desire to pack on 25lbs of water =)

I AM considering throwing in some Var tho!

Any further input is much appreciated

**UPDATE**

Final cycle:

650mg/week EQ 1-12
400mg/week Test cyp 1-12

Nolva and HCG for PCT

Damn Im psyched for this cycle!
 
Last edited:
Lab_Wizard said:
Nolva and hcg for PCT.
Run Nolva and Clomid for PCT, but not HCG. Use it during your cycle if you start to strophy, but not AFTER your cycle. This will hinder recovery even further.
 
BionicBC said:
Run Nolva and Clomid for PCT, but not HCG. Use it during your cycle if you start to strophy, but not AFTER your cycle. This will hinder recovery even further.


Are you sure bro?? I thought you should always use HCG for PCT. Per Jenetic
Hindering recovery?? Hmmm.
DJ
 
I'm considering this in may:

10 Weeker
-----------
300 mg's test ethanate EW
300 mg's EQ EW
50 mg's anavar/day

but I had a hair crisis last cycle, so I may back down to 250 and 250 on the test and EQ respectively.
 
BionicBC said:
Run Nolva and Clomid for PCT, but not HCG. Use it during your cycle if you start to strophy, but not AFTER your cycle. This will hinder recovery even further.
i have never heard thAT HCG will hinder recovery post cycle
 
wellbilt said:
i have never heard thAT HCG will hinder recovery post cycle

Yah this thread has led to more confusion that anything for me!

I think I will go with my source's advice and be done with it!
 
wellbilt said:
i have never heard thAT HCG will hinder recovery post cycle
How can no one have heard this before? READ UNDERLINED TEXT....


HCG, is not an anabolic/an-drogenic steroid but a natural protein hormone which develops in the placenta of a pregnant woman. HCG is manufac-tured from the urine of pregnant women since it is excreted in un-changed form from the blood via the woman's urine, passing through the kidneys. The commercially available HCG is sold as a dry substance and can be used both in men and women. in women injectable HCG allows for ovulation since it influences the last stages of the development of the ovum, thus stimulating ovulation. In a man HCG stimulates pro-duction of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone produc-tion. HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testoster-one production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing ste-roid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass. Administering HCG directly after steroid treat-ment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by mega doses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size). Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. Those who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular in-tervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids, in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.

Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG. Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasma- testosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in re-estab-lishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a-result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use." For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin an-other steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the "steroids" for at least two to three weeks.

HCG package insert states clearly that HCG "has no known effect of fat mobilization, appetite or sense of hunger, or body fat distribution." It further states, "HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity, it does not increase fat losses beyond that resulting from caloric restriction. 6000 I.U. of HCG in a single injection resulted in elevated testosterone levels for six days after the injection. At a dosage of 1500 I.U. the pharmatestosterone level increases by 250-300% (2.5-3fold) com-pared to the initial value. The athlete should inject one HCG ampule every 5 days. Since the testosterone level remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The effective dosage for ath-letes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as al-ready mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a few weeks. If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function.

HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an antiestrogen. Male athletes also report more frequent erections and an increased sexual desire. In high doses it can cause acne vulgaris and the storing of minerals and water. The last point must especially be observed since the water retention which is possible through the use of HCG could give the muscle system a puffy and watery appear-ance. Athletes who have already increased their endogenous test-osterone level by taking Clomid and intend subsequently to take HCG could experience considerable water retention and distinct feminization symptoms (gynecomastia, tendency toward fat de-posits on the hips). This is due to the fact that high testosterone leads to a high conversion rate to estrogens. In very young ath-letes HCG, like anabolic steroids, can cause an early stunting of growth since it prematurely closes the epiphysial growth plates. Mood swings and high blood pressure can also be attributed to the intake of HCG.

HCG's form of administration is also unusual. The substance choriongonadotropin is a white powdery freeze-dried substance which is usually used as a compress. Each package, for each HCG ampule, includes another ampule with an injection solution containing isotonic sodium chloride. This liq-uid, after both ampules have been opened in a sterile manner, is injected into the HCG ampule and mixed with the dried substance. The solution is then ready for use and should be injected intra-muscularly. If only part of the substance is injected the residual solution should be stored in the refrigerator. It is not necessary to store the unmixed HCG in the refrigerator; however, it should be kept out of light and below a temperature of 25* C.

HCG is a relatively expensive compound. It costs approx. $36 -45 for 3 ampules of 5000 I.U.
 
Lab_Wizard said:
Nice post

SO, use HCG only during cycle and not after?
IMo, yes. Ill try to find more links. Do what you think best, many of the things we discuss are "up in the air" so to speak... In my opinion, though, never HCG for PCT, only during to maintain testicular function.
Bionic
 
No, start HCG straight after your last shot and do it MWF 1000iu for two weeks. Yes HCG keeps you shut down but for this two week period, the gear is still in your system anyway. After the HCG period is done, continue with Nolva 20mg per day for 3 weeks.
It would also be useful to do HCG, MWF 500iu mid-cycle for one week to prevent atrophy.
 
pursuit said:
No, start HCG straight after your last shot and do it MWF 1000iu for two weeks. Yes HCG keeps you shut down but for this two week period, the gear is still in your system anyway. After the HCG period is done, continue with Nolva 20mg per day for 3 weeks.
It would also be useful to do HCG, MWF 500iu mid-cycle for one week to prevent atrophy.
THEN HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS????

"The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a-result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use."
 
As I said, for two weeks after the last shot, the gear is still in your system ie your LH levels will be repressed anyway from the gear, and adding HCG will not suppress you any further but will restore testicular function. Yes, after the HCG usage (and testicular restoration) the LH levels will still need to be restored. This function is carried out by anti-estrogens.
 
pursuit said:
As I said, for two weeks after the last shot, the gear is still in your system ie your LH levels will be repressed anyway from the gear, and adding HCG will not suppress you any further but will restore testicular function. Yes, after the HCG usage (and testicular restoration) the LH levels will still need to be restored. This function is carried out by anti-estrogens.
Okay, then I agree. I dont consider PCT to begin until all esters have cleared my system. Up until that point, ill run nolva/hcg, maybe a-dex, but never Clomid until everything is clear, and never HCG after all has cleared. I usually run a short acting AAS while longer esters are clearing, like Test Prop, Winny, exc. That way you dont have a 2-3 week 'limbo' period.
Bionic
 
BionicBC said:
Okay, then I agree. I dont consider PCT to begin until all esters have cleared my system. Up until that point, ill run nolva/hcg, maybe a-dex, but never Clomid until everything is clear, and never HCG after all has cleared. I usually run a short acting AAS while longer esters are clearing, like Test Prop, Winny, exc. That way you dont have a 2-3 week 'limbo' period.
Bionic

SO, the final PCT for my cycle is:

HCG after last shot :MWF 1000iu for two weeks.
After the HCG period is done, continue with Nolva 20mg per day for 3 weeks.

HCG, MWF 500iu mid-cycle for one week to prevent atrophy.

**Use nolva throughout the cycle???You said "continue" with nolva at 20mg/day.
 
With your dosage, I doubt you'll need Nolva during cycle but you'd be best to start taking 20mg per day during the HCG period (as HCG can cause surge of estrogen) , then after this, continue Nolva 20mg on its own for 3 weeks for PCT purposes.
 
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