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Ephedra just got banned
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FlexManning
New member
faller said:
Nah, I think he's right. The language I just saw on espn.com indicated a ban on possesion, too.
WTF do we do now? Hell, in addition to using caffeine and ephedrine for energy, I'm a welder with shitty sinuses and ephedrine's about the only thing that clears me up without making me feel like shit. I wonder if it will be something that can be bought sort of "gray market" from other countries, sort of like how you can get 2% Nizoral shampoo or if customs will make a big deal about it.
I guess the government would rather we use crank.
Look at the proposed rule in the Federal Register. Use and sale will be prohibited. Thus mere possession is not technically mentioned, but if you possess it you either intend to use it or plan to sell it (remember that US law includes "give away" in its definition of sale too).
Scary that this is happening without a law even being passed.
Scary that this is happening without a law even being passed.
Hey, I'm a crininal right now, just took some because the government said I can't.
Welcome to the club boys! It has been banned for us Cunuckleheads for sometime now. Our laws oour very backwards though, some very good ones ... yours are just getting downright shitty! Who gives a shit about ephedrine anyways ... just get some T-Rex ... isnt that ephedra free? (and actually works too)
Mavy
Mavy
Mavy said:
If we take this attitude about the supps that we dont personally take, then there will be no one to stand up for the ones that you do want. This starts a bad trend of the government banning supps and it is not likely to stop with ephedra. Since steroids have such a bad rep in the media, all the derivative of those will be next to go. Again bodybuilders wont object "Who cares they will say, use real gear anyway" And on we go.
Why pick on our "fat burners" when we have known for decades how deadly alcohol and cigarettes are? What has caused more deaths, whether the consumers were "heathy" or not, at the time when they were killed? Where's the common sense; need we even ask? There are far less casualties from ephedrine use. Why can't congress just give up their alcohol and cigarettes and forget about picking on ephedrine. Which is safer, and which actually has any positive benefit? While I'm at it... no, I don't believe what any 100+ year old rinkled ass old fart alcoholics claim about the health benefits of alcohol; it's still not good for you. Out of curiosity, how many people in congress are smokers, drug addicts, alcoholics, or are obese? In my opinion, they've got far worse things they need to ban (which would unfortunately incrinimate themselves if they actually had the guts to do what's in our country's best interest) before even thinking about the comparatively harmless ephedra!
True enough pimp ...
Just dosent phase me me much because its old news here in Canada. Same with pro-hormones and the works. Yet weed is decriminalised.
It really dosent upset me as much as you guys for a few reasons. 1 ... it has always been banned for us ... like Bruce Hornsby once said ... thats just the way it is.
2. Ephedra ... I personally would rather diet or use ephedra free prods.
3. Pro-Hormones - give you sides, but no gains, I would rather train naturally or responsibly cycle with steroids.
It just seems like you making it seem like they are banning your gym membership or something. The real things that you will need that work, i.e. protein, food, creatine, vitamins, glutamine ...etc etc will always be there. Steroids will ALWAYS be illegal. Dosent seem to stop people from learning about them and using them.
Mavy
Just dosent phase me me much because its old news here in Canada. Same with pro-hormones and the works. Yet weed is decriminalised.
It really dosent upset me as much as you guys for a few reasons. 1 ... it has always been banned for us ... like Bruce Hornsby once said ... thats just the way it is.
2. Ephedra ... I personally would rather diet or use ephedra free prods.
3. Pro-Hormones - give you sides, but no gains, I would rather train naturally or responsibly cycle with steroids.
It just seems like you making it seem like they are banning your gym membership or something. The real things that you will need that work, i.e. protein, food, creatine, vitamins, glutamine ...etc etc will always be there. Steroids will ALWAYS be illegal. Dosent seem to stop people from learning about them and using them.
Mavy
It's all media hype. Whatever sounds good, they say, and then the rest of the world believes it. It's interesting...I am in graduate school studying nutrition, so it is a topic I'm pretty familar with. I look at the nutrition things that come out in the media that are MILES off base, then I wonder "is ALL of the news like this??". Good possibilty that everything they say is bull, unless you are knee deep in the topic, you would never know. #$%&!!!!!
JuicePimp said:
Where has creatine been banned? That is just wrong. Creatine is harmless ... where I can see how ephedra could be dangerous.
God bless you if creatine ever gets banned for you guys. I really cant see it though. There are millions of dollars at stake by many companies if this were to happen. Hell you can even buy creatine at Safeway.
I can understand the banning of prohormones as well, (especially if I had a kid). They are the biggest waste of money imo. Some 16 yr old kids reads a mag in flex on prohormones. Dosnt need anything, goes in and buys a shitload over the counter with his paper route money! Eats them like candy at triple the dosage hoping to look like someone in the flex adds. He ends up with no extra muscle, but a pair of titties. At least steroids are harder to get, and MOST people wont sell them to a 16yr old, although it happens.
Anyways ... getting off topic here. What I am trying to get at is that its not the end of the world, many countries already have these banned and we seem to make out alright.
Mavy
PineBender
New member
PH's DO work, its just a matter of how they are administered...
geoboy
New member
It's not about our health, it's about protecting the health of the big Drug Companies (read "big campaign contributors").cubbybear said:
step by step approach. first they redefined "Fat", so more people fit into the catagory. then they ban a safe effective over the counter fat-burner. Now all the fatso's have to go to the doc and get scripts for expensive (& less effective, less safe) weightloss drugs. some already out there, many more in the pipeline.
what a farce. I guess HHS's got the whole anthrax/SARS/flu/AIDS thing nailed down since they got lots of time to spend worrying about ephedrine. this is the same FDA/HHS that approved phen-phen BTW.
Think of how rediculous this is. Gov makes sale/use illegal to protect my health. if I insist on using, they will fine me or put me in jail....to protect my health. NONE of the common rationales for drug laws apply here. no dirty untaxed money going to fund mob/terror/underworld, no crime to pay for habit, no societal impact, etc.
and p.s. notice it was announced when no one was looking- in between xmas-new years, day b4 NYeve.
FreakMonster
New member
GOVERNEMENT BANS EPHEDRA!!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-12-30-ephedra_x.htm
What a bunch of crap!!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-12-30-ephedra_x.htm
What a bunch of crap!!
Mavy said:
Although i do use ECA for its stimuulatory effects its not even really about whether the supp is good or not. The point is, the FDA currently has no oversea of supps in this country and can only make suggestions. Now we are getting upright bans!! We are worried about our rights slowly slipping away. Its BULLSHIT! Whose to say there not planning on setting up another govmt agency to regulate supps and generate more income for the govt. I live and work in DC and see on a daily basis that it all comes down to money and power. The govt sees that they are missing out on an huge untapped monetary resource so they are saying lets see how make look like we legitimately controlling another aspect of lives and stealing more money from us.
I don't think Ephedrine is illegal in Canada. I think they can only sell it in 8mg tablets now, vs the old 25mg dose. Luckily I've loaded up on a near life time supply. (I barely take it anymore due to ephedrine dick, but used to be on that shit all the time for about 3-4 years)
nikolai_bolkov
New member
I'm with you all...I use it too...
BUT...come on, this is not some big conspiracy to make more money for certain drug companies...
FACT...people have died from this and they're protecting the general public...just because you know how to use it safely doesn't mean you neighbor does...
hey I'm just saying so don't flame me
BUT...come on, this is not some big conspiracy to make more money for certain drug companies...
FACT...people have died from this and they're protecting the general public...just because you know how to use it safely doesn't mean you neighbor does...
hey I'm just saying so don't flame me
geoboy
New member
nikolai_bolkov said:
you can die from drinking too much water at one time (hydrosis). let's ban water to protect the general public.
You can name 100's of OTC drugs/supps that are more dangerous and have gotten more complaints per dose than ephedra/ephedrine. what's the difference? concerted lobbying effort & negative publicity campaign to ban it. funded by who? guess. why? because there are lot's of real expensive drugs to take its place.
you do know that the FDA commissioners and HHS politicos are mostly all revolving door Drug company honcho's, yes?
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FlexManning
New member
nikolai_bolkov said:
I don't know whether this quite meets "conspiracy" level, but really, what business does the AMA have in telling the DEA which drugs and supplements to go after? By default, the AMA is setting drug policy. They have gotten almost every single thing they've asked for in the past 10 years, besides a few token issues they throw out there to pretend they're not getting everything. They have no such constitutional right. In fact, it's the opposite, they're basically a tool for bribing politicians.
If the AMA is looking out for our health, why are they making a stink about this and not about the fact that most Americans don't go through a day without eating spoonfulls of corn sugar?
I certainly think there are many powerful people in the AMA who feel that nobody besides the AMA should have a right to set drug policy. Again, not the AMA's job.
Plus, we go back to the root of it: is ephedrine more dangerous than the PRESCRIPTION drugs we are forced to subsidize with taxpayer money? I mean, I've seen people nearly bleed to death after sneezing while on blood thinners.
You also have to look closely at the data. I mean, there are apparently less than 200 cases of deaths they can even present a plausible case for as far as being caused by ephedrine. Really, that makes me think, "You mean the fattest, laziest, most out of shape percentage of the population represents most of the people buying this (I'm referring mainly to the jump in sales a few years ago, most bodybuilders already knew about it) yet there are only that many deaths?"
Yeah, of course ephedrine and caffeine together can raise heart rate and blood pressure in new users. So why aren't there MORE deaths? There are so few deaths in fact that reasonable people ought to consider that there are beneficial effects to the product that outway dangers in many cases.
Case in point: how many people die from obesity every year? I mean it's got to be over a million a year in this country alone. I would say that if a person were to do an analyzation that included the risk factor for additional weight compared along side the average weight loss due to ephedrine use and the possible risks, a case could be made that any risk is offset.
I'll leave you with this: recently my mom had gastric bypass surgery. I can tell you that I would have been much less worried if she would have simply taken E&C and tried Atkins. Wouldn't you? But that approach isn't even going to be an option anymore. Now people can pay 30 grand to have their guts rearranged, and there's a KNOWN 1 in 200 risk of death for the procedure. If the risk of death for ephedrine use was 1 in 200, there would be more than 10,000 people dead from the substance. Yet some reports place the number at as few as 8.
WELLLL ACTUALLY
They are banning ephedra containing products. Not OTC Ephedrine HCL and if you do not know, THAT is an OTC remedy for Asthma. It is exaclty what is in Primatene tabs in 25 mg per dose. They are not going to go back and re classify an OTC med I am sure. It is more expensive however.
They are banning ephedra containing products. Not OTC Ephedrine HCL and if you do not know, THAT is an OTC remedy for Asthma. It is exaclty what is in Primatene tabs in 25 mg per dose. They are not going to go back and re classify an OTC med I am sure. It is more expensive however.
I stand corrected
They are banning Ephedrine HCL ...BUT not any of the OTC remedies for colds or ASTHMA ...so you can still get 25mg tabs that way, They say because it is labled properly and for short term use only. I would by stock in whoever makes Primatene tabs. In the brown box.
They are banning Ephedrine HCL ...BUT not any of the OTC remedies for colds or ASTHMA ...so you can still get 25mg tabs that way, They say because it is labled properly and for short term use only. I would by stock in whoever makes Primatene tabs. In the brown box.
What are your thoughts on this Metabolife ?
I would research this but I hoped some of you had already formed a summary.
P.S. I think this ban is BullShit. I've been taking Stackers since 1995 and had no problems whatso ever.
I would research this but I hoped some of you had already formed a summary.
P.S. I think this ban is BullShit. I've been taking Stackers since 1995 and had no problems whatso ever.
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2000 reports, 3 deaths, etc.., in 6yrs. Gimme a break. More die from Amusement parks. Scroll down the page to 1999 Fatalities .
I count seven deaths if you count the little boy from Spain in 1999 alone.
Let's shut down the parks now.
Three Deaths In Six Years
I count seven deaths if you count the little boy from Spain in 1999 alone.
Let's shut down the parks now.
Three Deaths In Six Years
been taking it since dymtadrine came out with it in 1991 still livin!!!!!!
FlexManning
New member
faller said:
No, it just depends on what state you live in as far as if you can find it. In some states you can get ephedrine in 25mg + 200 mg guaifenesin. That is the formula that replaced the infamous "Minithins". Many companies make a 25/200 formula. Some also make formulas with larger percentages of guaifenesin.
Some people don't like the guaifenesin- in large doses it can supposedly cause diarrhea and stomach upset, maybe some other problems- but in my mind the 25/200 formula is still a hell of a lot easier on your stomach than herbal formulas and causes less jitters, plus the guaifenesin actually has some benefits of it's own. (Some people have proposed it as a treatment for certain disorders such as the ubiquitous Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. It tends to thin mucuous secretions, if you're the type of person who clears his throat a lot you might find it helpful, especially in offsetting dry nasal passages caused by using ephedrine and taking lots of caffeine. )
I've noticed there is also a psuedoephedrine based "mini" available OTC. I'm sure that's all you can get in certain states.
And all based on a renewed vigor because an out of shape fat ass wanna be ball player, was taking it while trying out for a ball team.
The coroner could not positively conclude that it caused his death. Notice though, he never once mentioned the fact that he was an out of shape fat ass that was dehydrated.
Again, why do I defend this country?
The coroner could not positively conclude that it caused his death. Notice though, he never once mentioned the fact that he was an out of shape fat ass that was dehydrated.
Again, why do I defend this country?
Sir-Que
New member
Yeah don't you just hate fat people sometimes, I meam really. Because Fat Boy's death was realy the catalyst if all of this. Oh yeah not to mention the Fat Ass in question had taken like 17 Xen's on the day in question.
But than again you could also lay some blame on Cytodyne's door also. For marketing this product as the one pill wonder that takes pounds of with NO excercise(as THEY advertised). I mean please that's just begging every lazy, (i'm on the Atkin's diet), gymphobia asshole to come buy a heartattack.
Lose weight with no excercise, this is marketed for the fitness illiterate. I have no understanding how a grown-ass person could believe this shit. Then again I acually believe in cardio wth a diet.
SQ-
But than again you could also lay some blame on Cytodyne's door also. For marketing this product as the one pill wonder that takes pounds of with NO excercise(as THEY advertised). I mean please that's just begging every lazy, (i'm on the Atkin's diet), gymphobia asshole to come buy a heartattack.
Lose weight with no excercise, this is marketed for the fitness illiterate. I have no understanding how a grown-ass person could believe this shit. Then again I acually believe in cardio wth a diet.
SQ-
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FlexManning
New member
GoinDeep said:
You got that right, bro. Remember how when you were a kid you used to think how great it would be to be in some type of rebellious movement? Then you grow up and see the people who devote their lives to some dumbass cause that end the end just wastes taxpayer dollars.
Hell, the Bechler family weren't the only ones trying to get ephedrine banned, there are actual ORGANIZATIONS of people who's number one cause in life was trying to get ephedrine banned. I've actually seen a website based on it. They even had a questionnaire for reporting bad ephedrine experiences. Think how many fat asses popped ephedrine and starved themselves all day, then got light headed and reported it as a bad ephedrine experience. Hell, they hold your hand through the damn report.
My suggestion for most of the people that want to devote themselves to the masses so readily is this: how about spending some fucking time with your kids and taking care of your families instead of being such publicity whores? Our big problems in this country aren't diet supplements. Hell, half the kids without 2 parents and some kid's mom and dad are off at a "Ban Ephedrine!" meeting thinking they're saving the world.
A
Animal
Guest
Interesting.
Today Rush was bitchin' about the gov being everybody's mom and handholder in having to ban eph to save you from yourself.
It's so dangerous that the day after this coming ban was mentioned stores had the the largest sales day on record for eph!
But none of the buyers will protest or do a thing thinking, "ive got mine' and then the gov will move on to the next supplement until they are all gone like in EU.
Today Rush was bitchin' about the gov being everybody's mom and handholder in having to ban eph to save you from yourself.
It's so dangerous that the day after this coming ban was mentioned stores had the the largest sales day on record for eph!
But none of the buyers will protest or do a thing thinking, "ive got mine' and then the gov will move on to the next supplement until they are all gone like in EU.
In general throughout history people have strived to feel a part of something for a seemingly rightious cause, less the facts, and once we've convinced ourselves of it as a group the reality is very hard to prove otherwise. Even if we have to live a lie to help convince us that our cause is just. Seemed like a Witch Hunt from the start to me.
Testoterone Tom
New member
WOW, I havn't been to this board in a while! I was just doing some research on the best diet pill when I came across this thread.
We need a leader AND a lobbiest that is willing to get into bed with the Pharm Companys and pump the age-defying propertys of GH and SELECTED testosterone therepy, not all test mind you.
There are a lot of good supplements out there that WE, on this board use, that would result in a longer, stronger quality of life that would last well into the limits of our years (120 years approx). How would you like to retire at 100, with a bench press in the 200lb range? I'm telling you guys, we have an opperotunity here NOW, with Arnold in the Governers seat, that we never had before. Can anyone deny that Arnold used? Not a chance.
Want the supps that we use to stop getting banned? I want the supps that are already banned to come off. I'm sure we have a couple of closet politicians on this board, get some marketing experts, some crafty lobbiests, work a scheme and start pumping it. It's all about information, get it out there, and we can get the law changed. And work that sex angle. The law makers are getting old and impotent, juice em ONE time. And watch.
I personally think with the right blend of stuff, starting now, with an old school juicer in public office, we can get the ball rolling. It'll still take a few years, but with the pharm co's help I bet it'll happen.
Just a thought.
We need a leader AND a lobbiest that is willing to get into bed with the Pharm Companys and pump the age-defying propertys of GH and SELECTED testosterone therepy, not all test mind you.
There are a lot of good supplements out there that WE, on this board use, that would result in a longer, stronger quality of life that would last well into the limits of our years (120 years approx). How would you like to retire at 100, with a bench press in the 200lb range? I'm telling you guys, we have an opperotunity here NOW, with Arnold in the Governers seat, that we never had before. Can anyone deny that Arnold used? Not a chance.
Want the supps that we use to stop getting banned? I want the supps that are already banned to come off. I'm sure we have a couple of closet politicians on this board, get some marketing experts, some crafty lobbiests, work a scheme and start pumping it. It's all about information, get it out there, and we can get the law changed. And work that sex angle. The law makers are getting old and impotent, juice em ONE time. And watch.
I personally think with the right blend of stuff, starting now, with an old school juicer in public office, we can get the ball rolling. It'll still take a few years, but with the pharm co's help I bet it'll happen.
Just a thought.
A
Animal
Guest
Arnold, are you serious? He denied doing AS his whole life. He denied smoking weed which he was shown doing and then he bought the rights to the movie and bought them back and all future ones have that scene deleted. You really think he will help?
Doctors never wanted steroids made illegal. Did that do any good?
The pharm companies don't give a jack shit about ephedrine as the liability would be exhorbitant and therein and hereby lies the answer which is DOLLARS!
Most of the companies had vastly reduced their sales or stopped them because insurance for adverse events and liability and investigations back to them for meth diversion was costing too many DOLLARS!
Eph was already dying a dollars death and the feds just jumped on.
PH will go the same way as it's already happening with GNC taking them off their shelves. Their goes your lobby!
Doctors never wanted steroids made illegal. Did that do any good?
The pharm companies don't give a jack shit about ephedrine as the liability would be exhorbitant and therein and hereby lies the answer which is DOLLARS!
Most of the companies had vastly reduced their sales or stopped them because insurance for adverse events and liability and investigations back to them for meth diversion was costing too many DOLLARS!
Eph was already dying a dollars death and the feds just jumped on.
PH will go the same way as it's already happening with GNC taking them off their shelves. Their goes your lobby!
yeah i work nights and ephedra is my lifeline more often than not.
solidspine
New member
I stocked up, but know it will be available on line soon, and frankly clen work 10 times better for me.
yeah i cant wait until you have to go to your "source" for some yellowjackets
Themachine01
New member
so, would I be correct in stating that ephedra is being banned but not ephedrine HCL? I have been using ephedrine HCL for a few years now, not ephedrine, and am wondering if it will be more difficult for me to get?
FreakMonster
New member
US Health and Human Services Secretery Tommy Thompson is one of the main persons who helped get ephedra banned.FlexManning said:
Thompson argued that ephedra should no longer be a legal product because it A) increases your heart rate, and b) increases your blood pressure.
Guess what other legal product increases your heart rate and your blood pressure? Hint: It the same legal product whose manufacturers contributed $72,000 to Thompsons campaigns when he was running for governor of Wisconsin, the same product in which he OWNED stock before he became Health and Human and Human Services secretary.
If Thompson wants to get into the business of protecting the consumers against products that cause heart attacks, why doesn't he read his own departments data on that subject? He could start with the MOrbidity Weekly Report. The past 5 yrs the report cites that over 2 million deaths are directly attributable to smoking.
I didn't hear a peep from my fellow conservatives about Thompsons effort to ban the drug that is by far the safer of the two. Why not? Because the people who call themselves conservatives these days are divided into two groups: prostitutes and sheep.
The prostitues come up with with absurd rationalisations for preferential treatment for those products whose manufacturers will pay them a commision such as cigarettes. And the sheep repeat these absured rationalizations.
As you can see this is all you need to know about how FUCKING sad the state of conservative thought is in the BUSH ERA!!!
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