Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Endomorph cycling, training and Eating
- Thread starter georgie24
- Start date
VictorBR
New member
I cut on 2000 cals . My BMR is 2500 . So I eat 500 less cals , + all the other cals that I burn in weight training + cardio which are a lot .
I can lose a ton of fat and keep all my muscle doing this , even without AAS , of course I do take 270 g of high quality protein ED . And I don't go more than 3 hours without eating protein . I also take vit c , vit E , pure CEE , BCaa and l-glutamine to help preserve my mass .
Fish oil , T-rex , levorex and YES to help lose the fat .
this is how I CUT .
Now , I never did a bulking cycle in my life , but I am about to start one VERY soon , I will go with 3000 cals and stop the cardio . those are the main differences .
Victor
I can lose a ton of fat and keep all my muscle doing this , even without AAS , of course I do take 270 g of high quality protein ED . And I don't go more than 3 hours without eating protein . I also take vit c , vit E , pure CEE , BCaa and l-glutamine to help preserve my mass .
Fish oil , T-rex , levorex and YES to help lose the fat .
this is how I CUT .
Now , I never did a bulking cycle in my life , but I am about to start one VERY soon , I will go with 3000 cals and stop the cardio . those are the main differences .
Victor
1) Estrogen Management is Key
2) Carb intake must be strategic and on the moderate to low end ( for me One complex carb meal 2-4 hours pre workout , and some type of minor Re glycogenation meal in the hours after. But thats it for Carbs
3) QUALITY low fat protein sources ( chicken and fish)
4) and of course supps for fat loss and performance
5) Cardio at least 2-3 times a week
2) Carb intake must be strategic and on the moderate to low end ( for me One complex carb meal 2-4 hours pre workout , and some type of minor Re glycogenation meal in the hours after. But thats it for Carbs
3) QUALITY low fat protein sources ( chicken and fish)
4) and of course supps for fat loss and performance
5) Cardio at least 2-3 times a week
P
P01NTBL4NK
Guest
hmm I do cardio 5 times a week the boxing stuff for 2-3 hrs it seems I am building muscle from that to because of the intense use of my body. Stock up always take multivitamins I take 4-6 a day. 1 in the morning 2 after my morning workout 2 after my lifting session. Just diet right. Lift hard make sure when you lift you get in atleast 25 sets per workout day.
Avoid hi dose test cycles for bulking. Bulking is a matter of diet. No matter how big you are, I woudnt go over 750 mg of test per week with a very reliable AI like AIFM. Don't be afraid of deca, just use it in moderate doses (400-600 per week). Oh and most importantly with respect to gear, fina is your friend.
As far as diet is concerned, when cutting you obviously want to decrease carbs a bit. My BMR is 2500 kcal, so when I cut I eat anywhere from 2500-3000 kcal's and create a caloric deficit with training and cardio. I'll eat carbs with every meal until 5 pm.
Other than that the rest is what we all already know. Estrogen management is very important, use non-aromatizing AAS if you can with a small test base, and you also want to try to get out of this whole bulk vs cut mentality and just slowly lose bf and gain LBM over time. It's more manageable that way, and also more practical.
As far as diet is concerned, when cutting you obviously want to decrease carbs a bit. My BMR is 2500 kcal, so when I cut I eat anywhere from 2500-3000 kcal's and create a caloric deficit with training and cardio. I'll eat carbs with every meal until 5 pm.
Other than that the rest is what we all already know. Estrogen management is very important, use non-aromatizing AAS if you can with a small test base, and you also want to try to get out of this whole bulk vs cut mentality and just slowly lose bf and gain LBM over time. It's more manageable that way, and also more practical.
P
P01NTBL4NK
Guest
FUCK YEAH 52!!!!!!!!! Thats what I do try to decrease body fat and increase LBM and evetually you will be 245 7% I want to be 225 7% I am already 7% Id love to lower the BF wich I know I will and I know I will gain atleast 20-30 lbs on this cycle I am already 203 now So I know I will reach my goal =D
Mac173
New member
P01NTBL4NK said:
Easy there point. There's no way that you will gain 20-30lbs on a cycle and lose body fat at the same time. If you are trying to lose bodyfat and gain muscle then I wouldn't expect to gain more than 5-10lbs, assuming you are on a normal 10-20wk cycle. It's good to aim high but you have to be realistic also.
When just maintaining ( I guess you could call it recomp because size stays the same, bf decreases) I eat about 250-500 over maintenance. But it took me years to nail it right as far the actual number over maintenance. When trying to add a little more size I up the cals a bit but also increase cardio.
VictorBR
New member
srf173 said:
>> very interesting question . when it comes to losing fat and preserving muscle , not to brag , but I consider myself an expert . But I have no experience whatsoever doing the other WAY AROUND . I mean , gaining muscle and maintaining the same body fat % . It is just the oposite of what I am USED to do . It is the other way around .
This can be very TRICKY for an endomorph .
I am starting my lean bulker VERY soon , with those goals in MIND . Gaining muscle ONLY and not gaining an ounce of fat . I have YET to determine how many calories I am gonna eat .But I guess it is gonna range from 2800 - 3200 cals . Keep in mind my BMR is 2500 and I probably lose around 500 cals AT LEAST in the gym ED , so making my BMR 3000 calories .
See, the point is : to GROW a lot I would have to go with 3500-3800 . But IF I go that high , I might/probably gain some fat also and I don't want that . So I will probably stay at 3000 and see what happens . I will also be taking HGH and sesapure to help keep me lean .
Victor
Mac173
New member
VictorBR said:
Sounds good. I'm right at 4000cals a day right now and don't seem to be gaining to much fat and scale has been staying about the same. Not sure what my BMR is haven't checked in a while but I'm 203-205 @ 12-13%.
I'm interested to see how this works for you. Still trying to figure out if the bulking then cutting method is best or just go for the slow lean gains.
srf173 said:
This is a very accurate statement. My current cycle consists of 2 grams of gear weekly, 6 iu GH EOD, and IGF-1 pwo. I've been on cycle (this is phase 2) for about 3 months, and have added about 10 lbs, and I'd say 3-4 of that is currently water from the GH. However, I've also lost a good amount of bf. Unfortuantely at my size I need that amount of gear to maintain the size I have, and the tren helps me lean out, as does the GH and IGF. But the 5-10 lb mark should be a goal for a recomposition cycle. Any more and you're adding fat and water.
VictorBR
New member
srf173 said:
>>> Bro , your BMR is probably close to mine since our stats are similar , of course assuming you are anywhere from 22-28 years old . Right now , I am 26 years old , 6 "1 , 210 at 12 % .
I am trying to reach 200 and 9 % to start my bulker . I am dieting naturally .
3 and a half months ago I was 240 and 26 % .
So , My guess is that 4000 might be a bit too much for you , of course you will pack on the muscle , but with that muscle is gonna come some fat also .
This is how I see it ( just an example ) :
1 ) Eating 4000 cals , let's say you would gain 20 lbs of pure muscle + 10 lbs fat .
2 ) Eating 3000 cals , let's say you would gain 12-15 lbs of pure muscle but ZERO FAT .
What would you prefer ?
Personally I prefer number 2 , but I guess this is very personall , a lot of people will prefer to gain 20 lbs os muscle instead of 12 lbs with the mentality that : " oh I can always lose this fat later " .
But not me , I am just TIRED of dieting down , losing fat , I am really tired , so I can't afford myself to gain any fat at all .
Victor
Mac173
New member
VictorBR said:>>> Bro , your BMR is probably close to mine since our stats are similar , of course assuming you are anywhere from 22-28 years old . Right now , I am 26 years old , 6 "1 , 210 at 12 % .
I am trying to reach 200 and 9 % to start my bulker . I am dieting naturally .
3 and a half months ago I was 240 and 26 % .
So , My guess is that 4000 might be a bit too much for you , of course you will pack on the muscle , but with that muscle is gonna come some fat also .
This is how I see it ( just an example ) :
1 ) Eating 4000 cals , let's say you would gain 20 lbs of pure muscle + 10 lbs fat .
2 ) Eating 3000 cals , let's say you would gain 12-15 lbs of pure muscle but ZERO FAT .
What would you prefer ?
Personally I prefer number 2 , but I guess this is very personall , a lot of people will prefer to gain 20 lbs os muscle instead of 12 lbs with the mentality that : " oh I can always lose this fat later " .
But not me , I am just TIRED of dieting down , losing fat , I am really tired , so I can't afford myself to gain any fat at all .
Victor
I'm 25 5'11". I decided to take measurements last night to track my progress. I'm at wk 8.5 and this is what has happened. Over all weight has gone up 10-12lbs. I have added 5/8 on each arm and almost 3/4 on calves but 1.25 on the midsection. Didn't measure thighs yet. Not sure if I should be happy about that or not.
VictorBR
New member
srf173 said:
>> It all depends on your personall goals . We are all different . Me , personally ( this is ME , you might be different ) , I wouldn't be happy with an increased midsection . But that is me because I am extremely tired of dieting . If you can finish this with bigger arms , calves , bigger muscles overral and only like 1.0-1.5 inches added to midsection you should be fine .
BUT IMO if you have more than 2 inches added to your WAIST , you did something wrong in terms of diet . Although like I said this is very personall , some people will think it is ok to add 3-4 inches in the midsection when bulking as long as they also increase muscle size to a respectable degree .
I think different . It all depends on the person's genes and diet and personall goals. MAYBE , stress on "MAYBE " by eating 3000-3200 calories you could have added instead of 5/8 arms and 3/4 calves , something like 4/8 and 2/4 , but your midsection would still be the same . See my point ?
I would prefer to keep my midsection intact . But like I said , that is just my opinion .
Victor
VictorBR
New member
srf173 said:
>> good point . At least you know it is the quantitie not the qualitie . So like you said , if you gain too much fat , you know you went to high on the cals , next time you won't go that high . BUT , IMO ,This doesn't mean you can't adjust MID-CYCLE , if you see you are gaining too much fat , don't wait to finish the cycle , just reduce the cals .
this is trial and error untill we find what works best for us . we are all different and what might work for me , might not work for you .
Still , it is trial and error but I am not willing to RISK an increased midsection . So I will start my next cycle , which will be my FIRST BULKER EVER , with 2800 cals . Probably will increase to 3000 , and then MAYBE 3200 , but I am 99 % sure I will not go over 3200 .
But from my past experiences with AAS , when using it , I don't really need a lot of cals to build muscle . So 3000 might be just perfect for me to the point where I am building tons of muscle but still keeping my midsection with the same measures .
Victor
sofakingdel
New member
whoa Vic I read your diet and starving thread earlier and it looked like you worked hard, but lookin at the numbers you've posted about your trasfomation in 3 months i'm envious of your drive and discipline broVictorBR said:>>> Bro , your BMR is probably close to mine since our stats are similar , of course assuming you are anywhere from 22-28 years old . Right now , I am 26 years old , 6 "1 , 210 at 12 % .
I am trying to reach 200 and 9 % to start my bulker . I am dieting naturally .
3 and a half months ago I was 240 and 26 % .
So , My guess is that 4000 might be a bit too much for you , of course you will pack on the muscle , but with that muscle is gonna come some fat also .
This is how I see it ( just an example ) :
1 ) Eating 4000 cals , let's say you would gain 20 lbs of pure muscle + 10 lbs fat .
2 ) Eating 3000 cals , let's say you would gain 12-15 lbs of pure muscle but ZERO FAT .
What would you prefer ?
Personally I prefer number 2 , but I guess this is very personall , a lot of people will prefer to gain 20 lbs os muscle instead of 12 lbs with the mentality that : " oh I can always lose this fat later " .
But not me , I am just TIRED of dieting down , losing fat , I am really tired , so I can't afford myself to gain any fat at all .
Victor
VictorBR
New member
sofakingdel said:
thanks for the compliment bro , From 240 and 26 % to 202 and 9 % ( hopefully in 2-3 weeks I can reach this , I am really close ) takes a lot of discipline for sure and an intense drive .
My advice is that you gotta find something to motivate you , my biggest motivation was the fact that I broke with my g/f . Being single does a man good . My drive , discipline and intensity at the gym are clearly way BETTER when I am single . Actually I read studies that single guys have higher test levels than guys who are engaged / married .
Victor
sofakingdel
New member
i'm married, i better order more test lolVictorBR said:thanks for the compliment bro , From 240 and 26 % to 202 and 9 % ( hopefully in 2-3 weeks I can reach this , I am really close ) takes a lot of discipline for sure and an intense drive .
My advice is that you gotta find something to motivate you , my biggest motivation was the fact that I broke with my g/f . Being single does a man good . My drive , discipline and intensity at the gym are clearly way BETTER when I am single . Actually I read studies that single guys have higher test levels than guys who are engaged / married .
Victor
sofakingdel
New member
yo vic I know gear had some influence on your fat loos but their is no denying that your diet and work ethic were the most significant factors. I wish the guys that posts something like 'what gear do i need to get cut up for spring break' could look at the progress you made and see that the gear isnt an easy solution or fix all, you beed the discipline and work ethic tooVictorBR said:thanks for the compliment bro , From 240 and 26 % to 202 and 9 % ( hopefully in 2-3 weeks I can reach this , I am really close ) takes a lot of discipline for sure and an intense drive .
My advice is that you gotta find something to motivate you , my biggest motivation was the fact that I broke with my g/f . Being single does a man good . My drive , discipline and intensity at the gym are clearly way BETTER when I am single . Actually I read studies that single guys have higher test levels than guys who are engaged / married .
Victor
VictorBR
New member
sofakingdel said:
Bro , I went from 240 pounds and 26 % at 41 inches WAIST , to 210 lbs , 12 % and 34 inches waist , while still increasing my strenght and gaining some muscle that I had lost ( muscle memory ) . My final goal is 202 and 9 % which I should achieve in about 2-3 weeks .
BUT , BUT , BUT I DID ALL THAT NATURALLY . NO GEAR AT ALL . NO HGH . NO NOTHING . Only used whey , vit c , vit E , fish oil and tons of AF store products .
My last cycle , the last time I used gear was december 2001 .
Victor
sofakingdel
New member
for real, i thought you were on gear. Good on you bro, newbies and springbreak warriors should definately see your statsVictorBR said:
VictorBR
New member
sofakingdel said:
>> LIke I always say , you don't need gear to lose fat . All you need is diet + weight training + cardio + thermogenic ( like Thermorexin which is the one I use by the way ) .
At least you don't need gear to go from 26 % to 9 % , But when trying to go from 9 % to 4 % AAS is for sure a good idea to help preserve muscle .
Victor
jetty
New member
Always interesting to see how some use BMR and count calories to a T. I personally don't have the time to monitor total caloric intake. I eat the right amount of meals with the right ratio of protein and hope for the best. I've also been told that i'm stupid for not using AS while i'm slimming down. Probably true but i've got to give the receptors a break. I personally find that cardio is what catipults my fat loss and if i'm loose on my diet I do extra cardio. the argument can be made that it's catabolic but i never seem to lose all that much. Funny thing is i'm sure i'll lose 5 + lbs. of muscle during my cut but the perception will be i've put on muscle due to fat loss.
VictorBR
New member
protein sources - chicken breast , lean red meat , whey , low fat cheese , low fat slices of turkey breast and the king - WHEY PROTEIN ISOLATE .
carb sources - whole wheat bread and pasta . and Dextrose of course PWO .
Fat - stay really low at 30 g daily , mainly from the cheese and lean red meat , aside from that FISH OIL 4-5 g daily
Victor
carb sources - whole wheat bread and pasta . and Dextrose of course PWO .
Fat - stay really low at 30 g daily , mainly from the cheese and lean red meat , aside from that FISH OIL 4-5 g daily
Victor
Similar threads
