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E/C/A--- Anticatabolic?
- Thread starter macho21
- Start date
riskybizz007
New member
off the top of my head.. from what i remember reading, i think ECA was anticatabolic for the first hour or so.. then it turned catabolic.
Well, all I know is even if someone says that ECA is anticatabolic for the first hour, I still think you're taking a risk using it to preserve lean muscle. It's used to raise your core body temperature, which will in turn raise your metabolism, and so on and so on, leading to burning fat. I mean, come on now. If you want to preserve muscle, don't use ECA. Obviously, if you're dieting, taking in extra Glutamine and protein is necessary to act as an anticatabolic, while the ECA will hopefully rid the body of just fat mass.
riskybizz007
New member
well that's where we're running into a lot of theories and guesstimates. The ECA wont just burn fat only, if it's being catabolic that means everything is up for grabs including muscle for energy.
Now incorporating glutamine, HMB, or BCAA's (all known to be anticatabolic agents) will that help preserve muscle? Yes. Now here's my question that nobody has ever been able to answer. If these agents are anticatabolic, it's because they are being used for energy right? Well if you're using that for energy, that should mean you really aren't using the fat for energy then. right? So actually by taking these products, you preserve muscle but you really don't allow fat to be burned, b/c again these products are being used as your energy source. My question is... is my theory right? sounds logical to me...
Now incorporating glutamine, HMB, or BCAA's (all known to be anticatabolic agents) will that help preserve muscle? Yes. Now here's my question that nobody has ever been able to answer. If these agents are anticatabolic, it's because they are being used for energy right? Well if you're using that for energy, that should mean you really aren't using the fat for energy then. right? So actually by taking these products, you preserve muscle but you really don't allow fat to be burned, b/c again these products are being used as your energy source. My question is... is my theory right? sounds logical to me...
riskybizz007
New member
bumping for someone who really knows their shit who can answer this....
lates
lates
I'll just restate what I've read,
anticatabolic for first 2 hours then turns catabolic.
Something about the way the stimulant works sorta like adrenaline but then the stimulant effect kind of dies and whats left if the fat burning portion. Which of course is indecriminitory abotu where it gets fuel to support your increased metabolism.
My guess is that if you keep using it past the point where the stim effect dies (since the fat burning effect does continue w/ the beta3s) is that continual use of it and you won't even get the small anticatabolic window it offers.
Also read about how if the muscles stay stimulated then they can't relax and that hinders recouperation which in itself is somewhat catabolic, if you break them down w/ weights but don't let them repair because there always stimulated)
I know theres some animals that get a surge of adrenaline for flight or chase, and can run incredibly fast and strong but then after there muscles break down in recouperation (leaving them stuck unable to walk for a few days) its often the cause of their death since they are helpless during recovery.
Eitherway I find ECA best used for preworkout energy.
anticatabolic for first 2 hours then turns catabolic.
Something about the way the stimulant works sorta like adrenaline but then the stimulant effect kind of dies and whats left if the fat burning portion. Which of course is indecriminitory abotu where it gets fuel to support your increased metabolism.
My guess is that if you keep using it past the point where the stim effect dies (since the fat burning effect does continue w/ the beta3s) is that continual use of it and you won't even get the small anticatabolic window it offers.
Also read about how if the muscles stay stimulated then they can't relax and that hinders recouperation which in itself is somewhat catabolic, if you break them down w/ weights but don't let them repair because there always stimulated)
I know theres some animals that get a surge of adrenaline for flight or chase, and can run incredibly fast and strong but then after there muscles break down in recouperation (leaving them stuck unable to walk for a few days) its often the cause of their death since they are helpless during recovery.
Eitherway I find ECA best used for preworkout energy.
riskybizz007
New member
I agree Enock. And about preworkout energy this is great. If dieting and restricting calories this can help boost your BMR temporarily as well. It also helps curb appetite which is good.
As anticatabolic i wouldn't rely on it either.
And on my primary question i think i'll just give up. I been posting that one up for about a year w/ no response to it.
As anticatabolic i wouldn't rely on it either.
And on my primary question i think i'll just give up. I been posting that one up for about a year w/ no response to it.
Where are you guys getting this 1 and 2 hours stuff?? It has been shown to be extremely anti-catabolic in fat women -- not sure off-hand of other other direct studies, but it raises norepinephrine, which has been shown to be anti-proteolytic.
It isn't 600mg of test, but it is likely fairly significantly anit-catabolic.
It isn't 600mg of test, but it is likely fairly significantly anit-catabolic.
Hoffmeister
New member
Here's the study Par Deus mentioned:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1619985&dopt=Abstract
Here's another that shows better nitrogen balance:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1310922&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1619985&dopt=Abstract
Here's another that shows better nitrogen balance:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1310922&dopt=Abstract
riskybizz007
New member
If i'm mentioning it, it's because i know i've read it somewhere. That study shows they used urine samples, and yes less nitrogen was excreted when they did the urine sample. Was the output from a total output or were they just samples taken right after the ECA? If they were taken shortly after the ECA the anticatabolic effects would still have remained. Maybe i'm wrong about this whole thing but i know i've read it's a short temporary time that it remains anticatabolic, and i believe it was a 2 hour window. After that it started using everything for energy including muscle. My only problem is i don't save these articles...
Hoffmeister
New member
Well, it doesn't say explicitly in the abstract when the samples were taken.
But the abstract does reference urinary output as "daily" and "24 hr", which would lead me to at least suspect it was total during the day, as opposed to just after taking the ephedrine.
But the abstract does reference urinary output as "daily" and "24 hr", which would lead me to at least suspect it was total during the day, as opposed to just after taking the ephedrine.
riskybizz007
New member
good point Hoff... i guess the only way i'd be able to argue further is if i get my hands on what i read. I'll post up if i find it.
