Drunken style Kung Fu vs Kyokushin

[dhuff1500]

It looked like the drunken-style martial artist knew his form well but didn't have that much sparring practice. Drunken style looks pretty sweet tho.

 

[DieselGunz]

Damn that was not exactly text book there, dude got his ass kicked

 

[Kane Fan]

it was text book
just not for the KF guy

 

[Big_Joe]

I'm not sure how it could have been set up... I mean, if one of my gym buddies goes before me and I see him get kicked in the face, I'll know it is for real when I get up against the guy I'm fighting.
I really think a lot of the Kung Fu stuff works great in theory but fails in practice. As i understand it, the whole method in "drunken" style Kung Fu over the 5-Animals is that Drunken style requires you to shift your body weight continously, so your opponent can never know where your center of balance is, and where the next strike is coming from... Should have worked great against the Karate(in theory) guys who have learned (thru real competition) to read when an opponent is going to throw a kick by the tale signs of balance shifting before the strike, they should have been really confused by the KF guys and gotten hit repeatedly... Didn't happen that way at all.



BTW- This is my observation on this video alone. I'm not ragging on CMA, I'm sure there is a lot of good stuff in CMAs that was not represented well by the Drunken Kunfuy guys. This is not an invitation for djimbe to grace me with a 6 paragraph response... I'll tell you right now dude, I'm not even going to read past the first paragraph.



-BRR

Here's a history lesson for you. Karate means Chinese Boxing. The Japanese did not have te styles they had jutsu styles. It wasn't until the nineteen twenties and the rise of the militaristic culture in Japan that the charactor was changed from Chinese fist to empty fist. Empty and Chinese have the same sound but different characters in Japanese. So the argument about CMA and JMA is bs from the gitgo. ( You can stop reading now or you can continue and learn something)

The forms that went to Okinawa are the lowest, and therefor the easiest, forms in the Chinese family of martial techniques. These are the external systems. And by the way external and internal means originating from outside of China or inside of China. Buddhist forms are external, Taoist forms are internal. Buddhism came from India and is therefor external. These external forms were what was taught to the Okinawans that went to Fukien to to learn how to fight so they could defeat the Japanese invaders. But alas by the time they got any good Okinawa had become Japanified. In the twenties The Japanese military was drafting Okinawans and noticed that some of these guys were in a lot better shape then the others. They did some investigation and found that they were practicing Chinese Boxing, Kara te. They thought this was a great idea for soldiers. So they rounded up all the teachers they could find and made them high school PE teachers. This is how Chojun Miyagi became a high school PE teacher. They then took a bunch of techniques from the styles in Okinawa to Korea where they were also drafting soldiers and Tae Kwon Do was born.

Mas Oyama was a Korean that began his studies in Chinese kempo, in Korea. He went to Japan and began studying Kara te under Funakoshi. Funakoshi had studied some Karate in Okinawa. Went back to Japan and opened a school, he needed to make some money so he could keep practicing. Mas Oyama started his own version of Chinese boxing and called it kyokushin. One of the things that they did in Okinawa in teaching children is the fist placement. When teaching children the fist is held at the waist so not to much power can be generated so the kids wouldn't hurt each other. Adults were taught to hold the fist up at rib level. The style of karate that Funakoshi taught holds the fist at the waist. This is were the different fist placements from the Japanese styles and Okinawan styles came about.

Mas Oyama was very good. Not because his style was so good but because he trained very hard and very long. He pushed himself beyond what most people are willing to do. And that's the key point. It's not the style it's how hard you train. If you look at the kid that was doing the drunken fist, yea right, in the video he looks like a biafran refugee! He has no muscles at all!! How hard do you think he trains?? The other guy had strength. You can't see his body because he was wearing Japanes underwear. For those that don't know a gi is Japanese underwear. You wore a kimono over your gi, so as not to damage your kimono when you trained you took it off and just wore your gi.

What we see today is the commercialization of martial arts. To be any good at the higher arts, such as drunken fist, dragon fist or the supreme ultimate fist takes a very long time. An unbelievable amount of work and dedication beyond what the average person, or above average person, is willing or able to do. But you know these old guys from China and Japan need to make some money so they water it down and sell it to youngsters that grew up on Bruce Lee movies. Hey just like the movies, oh boy. As a result we have martial artist that have the grace of a train wreck. The higher forms of martial arts are graceful arts. Today martial arts is at it's lowest level. And yes if you get real strong you can make your hands into bludgeons and do some damage with them but you won't have any grace and it will be the lowest level of "art."

 

[Yarg!]

Here's a history lesson for you. Karate means Chinese Boxing. The Japanese did not have te styles they had jutsu styles. It wasn't until the nineteen twenties and the rise of the militaristic culture in Japan that the charactor was changed from Chinese fist to empty fist. Empty and Chinese have the same sound but different characters in Japanese. So the argument about CMA and JMA is bs from the gitgo. ( You can stop reading now or you can continue and learn something)

The forms that went to Okinawa are the lowest, and therefor the easiest, forms in the Chinese family of martial techniques. These are the external systems. And by the way external and internal means originating from outside of China or inside of China. Buddhist forms are external, Taoist forms are internal. Buddhism came from India and is therefor external. These external forms were what was taught to the Okinawans that went to Fukien to to learn how to fight so they could defeat the Japanese invaders. But alas by the time they got any good Okinawa had become Japanified. In the twenties The Japanese military was drafting Okinawans and noticed that some of these guys were in a lot better shape then the others. They did some investigation and found that they were practicing Chinese Boxing, Kara te. They thought this was a great idea for soldiers. So they rounded up all the teachers they could find and made them high school PE teachers. This is how Chojun Miyagi became a high school PE teacher. They then took a bunch of techniques from the styles in Okinawa to Korea where they were also drafting soldiers and Tae Kwon Do was born.

Mas Oyama was a Korean that began his studies in Chinese kempo, in Korea. He went to Japan and began studying Kara te under Funakoshi. Funakoshi had studied some Karate in Okinawa. Went back to Japan and opened a school, he needed to make some money so he could keep practicing. Mas Oyama started his own version of Chinese boxing and called it kyokushin. One of the things that they did in Okinawa in teaching children is the fist placement. When teaching children the fist is held at the waist so not to much power can be generated so the kids wouldn't hurt each other. Adults were taught to hold the fist up at rib level. The style of karate that Funakoshi taught holds the fist at the waist. This is were the different fist placements from the Japanese styles and Okinawan styles came about.

Mas Oyama was very good. Not because his style was so good but because he trained very hard and very long. He pushed himself beyond what most people are willing to do. And that's the key point. It's not the style it's how hard you train. If you look at the kid that was doing the drunken fist, yea right, in the video he looks like a biafran refugee! He has no muscles at all!! How hard do you think he trains?? The other guy had strength. You can't see his body because he was wearing Japanes underwear. For those that don't know a gi is Japanese underwear. You wore a kimono over your gi, so as not to damage your kimono when you trained you took it off and just wore your gi.

What we see today is the commercialization of martial arts. To be any good at the higher arts, such as drunken fist, dragon fist or the supreme ultimate fist takes a very long time. An unbelievable amount of work and dedication beyond what the average person, or above average person, is willing or able to do. But you know these old guys from China and Japan need to make some money so they water it down and sell it to youngsters that grew up on Bruce Lee movies. Hey just like the movies, oh boy. As a result we have martial artist that have the grace of a train wreck. The higher forms of martial arts are graceful arts. Today martial arts is at it's lowest level. And yes if you get real strong you can make your hands into bludgeons and do some damage with them but you won't have any grace and it will be the lowest level of "art."

Djimbe's alter??

 

[MikeMartial]

Well, I guess you got your long ass response, BRR.

Just not from Djimbe

 

[Ianhockey91]

Today martial arts is at it's lowest level. And yes if you get real strong you can make your hands into bludgeons and do some damage with them but you won't have any grace and it will be the lowest level of "art."

Lowest level of art, and highest level of winning.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

Here's a history lesson for you. Karate means Chinese Boxing. The Japanese did not have te styles they had jutsu styles. It wasn't until the nineteen twenties and the rise of the militaristic culture in Japan that the charactor was changed from Chinese fist to empty fist. Empty and Chinese have the same sound but different characters in Japanese. So the argument about CMA and JMA is bs from the gitgo. ( You can stop reading now or you can continue and learn something)

The forms that went to Okinawa are the lowest, and therefor the easiest, forms in the Chinese family of martial techniques. These are the external systems. And by the way external and internal means originating from outside of China or inside of China. Buddhist forms are external, Taoist forms are internal. Buddhism came from India and is therefor external. These external forms were what was taught to the Okinawans that went to Fukien to to learn how to fight so they could defeat the Japanese invaders. But alas by the time they got any good Okinawa had become Japanified. In the twenties The Japanese military was drafting Okinawans and noticed that some of these guys were in a lot better shape then the others. They did some investigation and found that they were practicing Chinese Boxing, Kara te. They thought this was a great idea for soldiers. So they rounded up all the teachers they could find and made them high school PE teachers. This is how Chojun Miyagi became a high school PE teacher. They then took a bunch of techniques from the styles in Okinawa to Korea where they were also drafting soldiers and Tae Kwon Do was born.

Mas Oyama was a Korean that began his studies in Chinese kempo, in Korea. He went to Japan and began studying Kara te under Funakoshi. Funakoshi had studied some Karate in Okinawa. Went back to Japan and opened a school, he needed to make some money so he could keep practicing. Mas Oyama started his own version of Chinese boxing and called it kyokushin. One of the things that they did in Okinawa in teaching children is the fist placement. When teaching children the fist is held at the waist so not to much power can be generated so the kids wouldn't hurt each other. Adults were taught to hold the fist up at rib level. The style of karate that Funakoshi taught holds the fist at the waist. This is were the different fist placements from the Japanese styles and Okinawan styles came about.

Mas Oyama was very good. Not because his style was so good but because he trained very hard and very long. He pushed himself beyond what most people are willing to do. And that's the key point. It's not the style it's how hard you train. If you look at the kid that was doing the drunken fist, yea right, in the video he looks like a biafran refugee! He has no muscles at all!! How hard do you think he trains?? The other guy had strength. You can't see his body because he was wearing Japanes underwear. For those that don't know a gi is Japanese underwear. You wore a kimono over your gi, so as not to damage your kimono when you trained you took it off and just wore your gi.

What we see today is the commercialization of martial arts. To be any good at the higher arts, such as drunken fist, dragon fist or the supreme ultimate fist takes a very long time. An unbelievable amount of work and dedication beyond what the average person, or above average person, is willing or able to do. But you know these old guys from China and Japan need to make some money so they water it down and sell it to youngsters that grew up on Bruce Lee movies. Hey just like the movies, oh boy. As a result we have martial artist that have the grace of a train wreck. The higher forms of martial arts are graceful arts. Today martial arts is at it's lowest level. And yes if you get real strong you can make your hands into bludgeons and do some damage with them but you won't have any grace and it will be the lowest level of "art."

Great post and awesome history lesson... In conclusion, traditional CMA styles take wayyyy too much time and a lot of dedication before you can become effective at it. SOOOOO Instructors have watered it down so they can make a buck out of teaching it to youngsters, who get their ass handed to them on National T.V by some of the Sportier, less pretty martial arts. For example, the Video we just watched, or all of the Kung Fuy, Cho my Sui and Take My Dough artist that got Pwoned in the first few UFC's and Vale Tudo competitions...

As far as Grace and "A thing of beauty" I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you may consider as a beautiful martial arts movement may be different from what I consider a graceful move.
Personally, I think Arlovsky's uppercut, Crocop's roundhouse and Shogun's knees are things of beauty, pure art and grace.





-BRR

 

[Yarg!]

Great post and awesome history lesson... In conclusion, traditional CMA styles take wayyyy too much time and a lot of dedication before you can become effective at it. SOOOOO Instructors have watered it down so they can make a buck out of teaching it to youngsters, who get their ass handed to them on National T.V by some of the Sportier, less pretty martial arts. For example, the Video we just watched, or all of the Kung Fuy, Cho my Sui and Take My Dough artist that got Pwoned in the first few UFC's and Vale Tudo competitions...

As far as Grace and "A thing of beauty" I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you may consider as a beautiful martial arts movement may be different from what I consider a graceful move.
Personally, I think Arlovsky's uppercut, Crocop's roundhouse and Shogun's knees are things of beauty, pure art and grace.





-BRR

Maybe inorder to stop 5 Animal Kung Fu's short comings they should add like 2 or 3 more animals.. or 8.. or 37.. fuck just add all the animals that have fur into Kung Fu. I mean with 67 animals under your arsenal, atleast ONE of them MUST know how to SPRAWL, right?? HAR HAR

 

[Kane Fan]

Well, I guess you got your long ass response, BRR.

Just not from Djimbe

often times when people don't actually have a point they try to hide the fact by typing so much that you just assume you lost their point
that guys post is an example of such, Djimbe's posts are far superior to the above, while I often don't agree with everything or even most of what he says I prefer his actual points to a history lesson that does nothing to counter the point one is trying to make...
so his general 'point' was that karate comes from china? ok, 85 years ago Karate came from China, it has evolved
hence, Japanese vs Chinese martial arts is VERY much a fair comparison to make
tho in the above one good point was actually made, it is about how you train more then the style you use
but that point is an imperfect one, no matter how hard you train BJJ, your shit in the Boxing Ring and vice versa
that's the bottom line