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Doggcrapp Training

wnt2bBeast

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THIS IS NOT A NEWBIE ROUTINE




This has been floating arond the net and i think it should be a sticky..I havent used DC's methods as it doesnt fit well with my goals right now..however i think there are a lot of good points in here about training/diet and what it takes to be huge..its a good read and those that have committed to this have put on lots of size..this should be sticky material :)

DC TRAINING MANUAL
Introduction to Philosophy:

My whole goal is to continually get stronger on key exercises=getting continually bigger. I will state this, the method I am about to describe is what I have found that makes people grow at the absolutely fastest rate possible and why I am being inundated down in this area to train people. It’s going to go against the grain but I'm making people grow about 2 and a half times as fast the normal rate so bear with me. A typical workout for the masses is (lets use chest for an example) doing a body part once every 7 days (once a week)and sometimes even once every 9 days or more. This concept came to the front due to recovery reasoning and I agree with most typical workouts your going to need a great deal of recovery.

Here’s the problem---lets say you train chest once a week for a year and you hypothetically gain 1/64 of an inch in pectoral thickness from each workout. At the end of the year you should be at 52/64 (or 13/16). Almost an inch of thickness (pretty good). To build muscle we are trying to lift at a high enough intensity and load to grow muscle but with enough recovery so the muscle remodels and grows. The problem is everyone is loading up on the volume end of training and its taking away from the recovery part of it.


You can train in a way so you can train chest 3 times every nine days and you will recover and grow faster than ever. If you train chest 3 times in 9 days you are now doing chest roughly 136 times a year! So instead of 52 growth phases you are now getting 136 growth phases a year. I personally would rather grow 136 times a year than 52. At a hypothetical 1/64th of an inch per workout you are now at 136/64 (or roughly 2.1 inches of thickness). So now your growing at roughly 2 and a half times as fast as normal people who are doing modern day workouts are. Most people train chest with 3 to 4 exercises and wait the 7-9 days to recover and that is one growth phase. I use the same 3 to 4 exercises but do chest 3 times during those 9 days and get 3 growth phases.


Everyone knows a muscle either contracts or doesn’t--you cannot isolate a certain part of it (you can get into positions that present better mechanical advantages though that put a focus on certain deep muscle fibers)--for example incline presses vs. flat presses. One huge mistake beginning bodybuilders make is they have a "must" principle instilled in them. They feel they "must" do this exercise and that exercise and this many sets or they won’t grow.

Base Program:
How I set bodybuilders workouts up is I have them pick either their 3 favorite exercises for each body part or better yet the exercises they feel will bring up their weaknesses the most. For me my chest exercises are high incline smythe machine press, hammer seated flat press and slight incline smythe press with hands very very wide----this is because I look at my physique and I feel my problem area is upper and outer pecs---that is my focus. Whenever I train someone new I have them do the following --4 times training in 8 days---with straight sets. Sometimes with rest pause sets but we have to gauge the recovery ability first.

Day one would be Monday and would be:
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps
Back width
Back thickness

Day two would be Wednesday and would be:
Biceps
Forearms
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads

Day three would be Friday and would be:
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps
Back width
Back thickness
(Sat+sun off)

Day four would be the following Monday and would be
Biceps
Forearms
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads

And so on Wednesday Friday Monday Wednesday etc.
Stay with me here--You’re only doing one exercise per muscle group per day. Your doing your first favorite exercise for chest on day one--your doing your second favorite exercise for chest on the next chest workout and your third exercise for chest on the next. You’re hitting every body part twice in 8 days. The volume on everything is simply as many warm-up sets as you need to do- to be ready for your ONE work set. That can be two warm-up sets for a small muscle group or five warm-up sets for a large muscle group on heavy exercise like rack deadlifts. The ONE work set is either a straight set or a rest pause set (depending on your recovery abilities again). For people on the lowest scale of recovery its just that one straight set---next up is a straight set with statics for people with slightly better than that recovery----next up is rest pausing (on many of the of movements) with statics for people with middle of the road recovery on up.

Three key exercises are picked for each body part (hypothetically we will use flat dumbell bench press, incline smythe bench press, and hammer press) ---USING ONLY ONE OF THOSE EXERCISES PER WORKOUT you rotate these in order and take that exercise to it's ultimate strength limit (where at that point you change the exercise and get brutally strong on that new movement too). That can happen in 4 weeks or that can happen 2 years later but it will happen some time (You cannot continually gain strength to where you eventually bench pressing 905 for reps obviously)---Sometime later when you come back to that original exercise you will start slightly lower than your previous high and then soar past it without fail--- As you progress as a bodybuilder you need to take even more rest time and recovery time.

READ THAT AGAIN PLEASE: AS YOU PROGRESS AS A BODYBUILDER IN SIZE AND STRENGTH YOU NEED TO TAKE EVEN MORE REST AND RECOVERY TIME. Example: My recovery ability is probably slightly better now than when I started lifting 13-14 years ago but only slightly...but back then I was benching 135lbs and squatting 155lbs in my first months of lifting. Now I am far and away the strongest person in my gym using poundages three to six times greater than when I first started lifting. With my recovery ability being what it is both then and now do you think I need more time to recover from a 155lb squat for 8reps or a 500lb squat for 8reps? Obviously the answer is NOW! This past year I have been really pounding the slag iron as heavy and hard as I can in preparation of trying to get onstage at about 252lbs early next year.

That means a hard 300lbs to me off-season and I’m pretty damn close to that right now. The gains I have made in strength this past year even at my lifting level are nothing short of phenomenal (in my mind). With those strength gains comes the ratio of recovery factor. Whereas a year ago I was training 2 on one off 2 on one off and getting away with it with extreme stretching etc....about 2 months ago I took an extra day off on the weekend because of work obligations and I just started to feel somewhat tired because of how heavy my weights were. If my strength keeps progressing at this level I am eventually going to have to train Monday Wednesday Friday Monday Wednesday Friday like outlined above simply because I am reaching poundages that are so far and away above my beginning weights-I have to take the necessary recovery precautions.


I am still training as often as I possibly can per body part--that’s key to me. The more times I can train a body part in a year’s time and recover will mean the fastest growth possible! I’ve done the training a body part every 10 days system in the past and while recovering from that--the gains were so slow over time I got frustrated and realized the frequency of growth phases(for me)was to low. I want to gain 104 times a year instead of 52--the fastest rate that I can accumulate muscle (YET AGAIN WITHIN ONES RECOVERY ABILITY-I CANT SAY THAT ENOUGH)

In the past 4-5 years that I have been slowly changing my philosophies of training I’ve been gaining so fast the last couple of years it’s been pretty amazing. I’ve got my training down to extremely low volume (a rest pause set or ONE straight set) with extreme stretching, and with recovery issues always in the back of my mind. I realize the number one problem in this sport that will make or break a bodybuilder is overtraining. Simply as this--you over train you’re done as a bodybuilder gains wise. Kaput. Zip.


A waste of valuable time. But I also think there is a problem with under frequency (only if you can train hardcore enough with extremely low volume to recover)--As stated in an earlier post I skirt right along the line of overtraining--I am right there...I’ve done everything in my power (Stretching, glutamine, "super supplements", sleep)to keep me on this side of the line and its worked for me. I believe everyone has different recovery abilities--the job of a bodybuilder is to find out what their individual recovery ability is and do the least amount of hardcore training to grow so they can train that body part as frequently as possible. For anyone who wants to follow my lead that would mean starting out with straight sets training 4 times in 8 days and strictly gauging yourself recovery wise with every step up you take (statics, rest pauses)

Alternate Programs:
MON TUES THURS FRI- For people who have (above normal) recovery ability (hitting body parts twice in that time-or twice in 7 days)

MON WEN FRI MON- For pretty much the norm of society with average recovery ability--hitting body parts twice every 8 days

MON TUES THUR FRI- With body split into three parts-for people with hectic schedules these are extremely short workouts yet stay roughly in the same scheme as the above.
On this schedule someone would group body parts like the following:

DAY ONE:
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps
(Stretches)

DAY TWO:
Biceps
Forearms
(Stretches)
Back width
Back thickness

DAY THREE:
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads
(Stretches)

In the first week of doing this, day one would be hit on Friday again and then the Monday of the following week would be Day 2 again, Tuesday would be Day 3, Wednesday off, Thursday-day one again etc. You would still be hitting body parts twice every 9 days and these workouts would be about 35 minutes tops.

Set & Exercise Examples:

Example Day One:
First exercise smythe incline presses (ill use the weights I use for example) 135 for warm-up for 12--185 for 8 warm-up--225 for 6-8 warm-up-----then 375 for 8 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 2-4 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 1-3 reps to absolute total failure (then a 20-30 second static hold) DONE!--that’s it 375lbs for 8+4+3= 375 for 15 reps rest paused..... next week I go for 385 (again rest paused)-----directly after that rest pause set I go to extreme stretching flyes and that’s it for chest and on to shoulders, triceps and back........the next day I come in to do chest would be day 4 and I would do hammer flat presses in the same rest paused manner (and then extreme stretching again)---the next day I come in to do chest is day seven and I would do my third favorite exercise rest paused and then the cycle repeats.


Three chest workouts in nine days with low enough volume to recover in between workouts and high enough intensity and load to grow rapidly--my workouts last an hour—I’m doing one exercise for one all out balls to the wall rest pause set (I don’t count warm-ups only the working set) ---so in simple terms I am using techniques with extreme high intensity(rest pause) which I feel make a persons strength go up as quickly as possible + low volume so I can (recover) as quickly as possible with as many growth phases(damage/remodel/recover) I can do in a years time.

Just in case any of you were confused every body part is hit 3 times in 9 days and advanced techniques such as rest pause is used (if it can be used)....Some exercises like hack squats and some back rowing exercises don’t allowthemselves to rest pausing too well. A sample couple of days for me would be the following (I’m not including warm-up sets--just working sets):

Day One:
Chest- Smythe incline 375 x 15 reps rest pause (RP) and 20 second static rep at end
Shoulders- Front smythe press-330 x 13RP
Triceps- Reverse grip bench 315 for 15-20 reps rest paused
Back width- Rear pull downs to back of head 300 x 18RP (20 second static at end)
Back thickness- Dead lifts straight set of 12-20 reps

Day Two:
Biceps- Dumbbell curls rest paused for 20 reps
Forearms- Hammer curls rest paused for 15
Calves- On hack squat straight set for 12 reps but with a 20 second negative phase
Hamstrings- Lying leg curl rest paused for 15-20 reps and then 20 second static at end
Quads- Hack squat straight set of 6 plates each side for 20 reps (of course after warming up)

DAY Three: Off

Day Four & Five: Same as day one with same concepts but different exercises (and again the same with days seven and eight)

Every exercise is done with a controlled but explosive positiveand a true 6-10 second negative phase. And the absolutely most important thing of any of this is I write down all weights and reps done from the working set on a notepad (and every time I go into the gym I have to continually look back and beat the previous times reps/weight or both)---If I cant or I don’t beat it, no matter if I love doing the exercise or not, I have to change to a new exercise.

Believe me this adds a grave seriousness, a clutch performance or mperativeness to a workout. I have exercises I love to do and knowing I will lose them if I don’t beat the previous stats sucks! But there is a method to this madness because when you get to that wall of sticking point of strength (AND YOU WILL, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN HACK SQUAT UP TO 50 PLATES A SIDE) that is when your muscle=strength gains will stop.....and you must turn to a different exercise and get strong on that one. And then someday you will peak out on that one too. You can always come back to that loved exercise in the future and you’ll start somewhat low and build up to a peak again- and trust me that peak will be far more than the previous one.

Some exercises you’ll stay with and gain strength at for almost up to a year and some exercises you’ll be at the limit in 4 weeks and lose them but its all in the plan. I love reverse grip bench presses--knowing that I have to beat 315 for 17 reps rest paused or else I have to change to maybe dips next time puts a serious sense of urgency into workouts. I either have to beat it by doing something to the effect of 320 for 15 rest paused or if I stick with 315, I have to get at least 19 reps rest paused or so. If I’m feeling crappy or having an off day I might give myself a little leeway and allow myself another go at it next time around but that’s it. The notepad is your intensity level, how badly you want to keep doing an exercise will be how hard you push to beat the previous. Looking at that piece of paper knowing what you have to do to beat it will bring out the best in you. Again it’s all in the plan to make you the strongest bodybuilder possible which will equal out into the biggest bodybuilder possible.

Heavy is relative--it doesn’t mean 3 reps --- it means as heavy as you can go on that exercise no matter if it is 5 reps or 50 reps. I personally like to do hack squats for 20 reps but I use about 6 plates on each side rock bottom--that’s as heavy as I can go on that exercise for 20 reps. I could do sets of 6 and probably use maybe 8 or 9 plates a side but my legs (and most people I train) grow best from heavy and 15-50 reps.

Question: When you say you go balls to the walls for four weeks, then take it easy for 2 weeks, can you elaborate on the taking it easy part regarding training. Do you take two weeks off? Do you just not train to failure?

Doggcrapp: I still train to failure and rest pause but I’ll use those two weeks to get my sanity back honestly. I’ll use those two weeks to either stay with an exercise that I know I’m gaining on, or change up an exercise I feel I’m maxed out strength wise on at that moment. Again I would leave it up to you guys what you want to do. A lot of you will just want to stay with what’s working. I just find myself going crazy sometimes with some of the weights I get up too and try to think of ways to make a movement harder so the weight comes down. –I’ve gone as high as 765lbs on a rack deadlift for 6 reps and I start going stir crazy with anxiety knowing I have to lift that heavy. So Ill do something crazy during those two weeks like rack deadlifts for 30 reps with 495 (real fast) or try out some exercise that I was wondering about.

If I like that exercise Ill stay with it. If not I go back with what works. If I am doing something that is working continually I will stay with it during those two weeks. Id say 3/4 of the exercises I stay with and I’ll tool around with some ideas I had with the other 1/4.

Question: How much of an increase should we look to add a week in terms of weights? When we pause, do you mean rack the weight after the initial 8 reps, take 15 deep breaths, then fire out 5-6 more then rack and take deep breaths again, then finish? I believe I understand the principal to an extent, but I want to be
sure.

Doggcrapp; Again the bigger the strength increase will be, the bigger the eventual size increase will be. Personally I have to beat my previous by either 2 reps or I have to add weight and at the very least get the minimum number of reps I allow myself rest paused on that exercise (or like previously stated I lose that exercise). If you find yourself blasting for weeks on end gaining just a rep here and a pound there, I think that is a waste of time--the gains will be coming too slow. Somewhat rapid increases are what we are striving for. If you really put your mind to it you can make rapid strength increases on any exercise and you can make those 2 rep or 5lb (at least) jumps for a lengthy amount of time.

Here I'll give you an abbreviated version of what I am looking for:

Day 1- Paramount shoulder press (warm-ups), and then 185X14RP (which was a 8+4+2 or something to
that effect) twelve is the lowest I will allow myself on this movement, twenty is the highest)---the next
time you would do paramount shoulder press again would be:
Day 10--paramount shoulder press (warm-ups)
185x18RP
Day 20--paramount shoulder press (warm-ups)
195x13RP
Day 30--paramount shoulder press (warm-ups)
195x16RP
Day 40--paramount shoulder press (warm-ups)
195x18RP
Day 50--paramount shoulder press (warm-ups)
205x12RP
Day 60--paramount shoulder press (warm-ups)
205x14RP
Day 70--paramount shoulder press (warm-ups)
205x13RP DAMMIT - I BLEW IT NOW I HAVE TO GO TO DUMBELL PRESSES NEXT TIME

In the real world I doubt you would of bombed out there, I bet you would of made it up somewhere around 240 to 260 before bombing out You do 185lbs to total failure (which we will hypothetically say is 8 reps ok) FINISH ON THE NEGATIVE-rack the weight and start breathing as deeply as you can to get as much oxygen in for 12 to 15 deep breaths (during this time you might or your training partner might be getting whatever exercise your doing ready for you again--like both of you bringing the bar back to the top again etc) I say 15 deep breaths but I want that whole time period to last maybe 20 seconds tops so depending on your breathing 12 to 15 deep breaths.

You went to failure with 185, you racked on the negative, took 15 deep breaths, and now you take the 185 again and go to complete failure again (lets say hypothetically failure was 4 reps) DO THE NEGATIVE PORTION 8 SECONDS DOWN AND RACK IT--15 more deep breaths, then 185 again to total failure FINISH ON THE NEGATIVE AND RACK IT. Depending on your recovery ability, the exercise and if your an advanced trainer or not instead of racking it at the very end you can "try" (and I say try) to hold the weight in a static hold for 20 seconds just before racking it(good luck you'll be shaking like a leaf at that point--I've had some words come out of my mouth trying to hold my static that could hit a triple word score on scrabble)

Reason for not doing traps: I let deadlifts and heavy rack deadlifts take care of traps. My reasoning: I can’t see where a 250lb shrug is going to beat 600lb+ rack deadlifts that I try to pull up and back at the top anyway.

How to do rack deadlifts: In a power rack, safety bars at knee level (your pulling from knee level)--keep your back arched or at least flat the entire movement (not rounded at all)--if your back starts rounding, its time to end the set or your using too much weight. Personally I pull with an overhand and underhand deadlift grip and with my arms perfectly straight, try to pull my shoulders up and back at the top. I then do about a 4-5 second negative down but I wouldn’t suggest that to others unless I can show how to do it. (I keep locked---my back arched and knees slightly bent and lower it)..It kind of takes a little getting used too.

Back Width: With all width movements rest paused I like front pull downs to the chin, rear pull downs to the mid-ear level (no lower), gravitron chins (the air compressor one with the platform), hammer under grip pull downs, and rack chins. Rack chins: Find the widest smythe machine you can (or barbell in a squat rack) and put a bench in front of it- put the bar about shoulder height- use wrist straps and put your grip as wide as comfortably possible-put your heels up on the bench but cross your legs to take them out of the movement- your legs should almost be straight but not quite- now do chins explosively up and 8 seconds down until the full stretch- any rep that your chin doesn’t either go over the bar or hit the bar doesn’t count! Do one warm-up set and then have someone put a fixed plate barbell (like used for barbell curls) in your lap. On every rest pause the spotter grabs the barbell off the chinners lap and the chinner stands up and counts his 15 deep breaths (and he stays strapped up to the bar). Then the chinner gets back into position after 15 deep breaths and the spotter puts the barbell back on the chinners lap. I want one warm-up straight set with no added weight done for 10-12 reps and then one all out rest pause set for 15 to 20 reps with added weight (use a 30lb barbell this first time out), then 10-30 short range static reps at the end. These are going to be excruciating and tomorrow your lats are going to be killing you.This exercise is my lat width pronto exercise.


You can rig this up where you don’t need a spotter. I’ve done this before by putting my weight belt really loose around me and putting a 35lb plate down the back of it with a short chain, or you can rig up some benches where you can get that barbell off your lap but it’s much easier if you can get someone to help you for the one working rest pause set. You need to really push the stretch down the bottom and then try to explode up to the bar on every rep

Back Thickness: I like over grip bent over rows, rack deadlifts, floor deadlifts, and T bar rows using a barbell in a corner and using the pulley handle from a seated row around it (and using multiple 25's or 35's instead of 45's to increase the range of motion)—I’m not a fan of t-bar rows with the pad on the chest apparatus--with heavy weights your lungs go out before your back does.

Hamstring exercises: leg curls rest paused, stiff legged deadlifts, and I do the following movement on a leg press religiously (man this one is easier to show and hard to explain here): legs wide, feet are at the very top pushing only with your heels, toes are off the plate. Rest paused for 20 reps. Your pretty much doing a leg press with only your heels and your toes off the top of the plate--it blasts hamstrings and you will feel it as soon as you get up the next morning. You need the right leg press to do this though-some plates are angled weird. I go as deep as I safely can on these--don’t let your ass round up-you can do this by taking in a lot of air, keeping your chest high (and your head stays on the back rest) when your lowering it and your ass will stay down.

Quads: a typical quad workout for me is super heavy weights on either a squat, a leg press or a hack squat for 15 to 30 reps (the last 7 reps for me is truly succeed or death). Someone who has a sweep from hell and his wheels are his best body part I usually have him doing a heavy 4-8 rep set on certain exercises (squat)and then maybe a hardcore 20 repper on other exercises. But most guys who could use more leg size I have them do one set in the 4-8 range to failure and another follow-up set with as much weight as they can use in the 15-20 range to failure on legexercises. It just depends on what I see by their pictures. That is about the only time you will ever see me have a person do 2 sets of the same exercise. With bodybuilders with troublesome legs it’s usually those 20 rep sets that make their legs grow and I just have them do that hard and heavy 4-8 rep set to keep the strength gains moving up the ladder.

Warm-ups for Legs: Johnny the behemoth who squats 650lbs is going to have to use a lot more warm-up
sets than Jimmy the stick-boy. Something like:
135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 6
405 x 6
495 x 4
650 x failure (4-8 reps)
The bottom line is whether its riding a bike for 15 minutes and doing one warm-up set or doing 10 warmup sets, warm-up sets are just warm-up sets--they mean nothing to me in a growth concept. I feel you should warm-up as much as you deem possible that makes you ready to go all out. This is the mistake I think people make when they say they get injured from low volume training. They think "one set" and go in and try to squat 405lbs without 3 warm-up sets with 135, 225, and 315. A sample hack squat warm-up I’ll do (just so you can see I’m not growing or taxing myself in the least from warm-up sets) is 90lbs on each side for 10, 160 each side for 6, 225 each side for 4, and then 315 on each side Ill go for 12-20 reps

Let’s say leg day one is: Leg press, day two: Hack, day three: Squat. You don’t have to do 50 rep leg presses every time they come around. You could pile more and more weight on every week and let your reps drop slowly till you’re moving some serious poundage at 10-12 reps. Trust me, I bet any money this will be far and away higher weight than you’ve ever been on the leg press. Or you could alternate--50 rep
leg presses and then the next time 12 rep heavy....just throwing some options at you in case you thought you HAD to do 50 rep leg presses. By the way I don’t rest pause them--I just sit there with the knees very slightly bent and breathe 5 deep breathes and go, breathe 5 more and go etc...at 40 reps the last 10 I’m doing 3 (breathe) 3 more (breathe) 2 more (breathe) 2 more. (and I refuse to put my hands on my knees at all times).....

Rest Pausing: After some time at rest pausing I noticed I started counting 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 at roughly the same pace during every eccentric phase of exercises I did. I went home and did it at a stop watch and kept the same counting cadence and it always comes out somewhere about 8 seconds (every time). So something like a bent over row or rack deadlift Ill count to 8 (5 seconds)and if it’s a bench or bicep curl etc, etc Ill count to 10. With me, counting to 8 always comes out to 5 seconds or so and counting to 10 comes out to 7.8 (lets just say eight) seconds or so. So 99% of my exercises I’m doing a 8 second negative phase on. As far as rest between the rest pauses I find breathing in and out deeply 12 times comes out to about 23 seconds for me every time so I just stick to that. I used to count "one one thousand, two thousand etc etc" but I’ve been rest pausing for a long time now and its all second nature to me.

Stretching:

ImageShack(TM) slideshow

CHEST: Flat bench 90lb dumbbells chest high--lungs full of air-- I drop down into the deepest flye I can for the first 10 seconds or so with my lungs full of air and chest out---then staying there I arch my back slightly and try to press my sternum upward --this is absolutely excruciating--the rest of the 60 seconds I try to concentrate on dropping my elbows even farther down (I try to but I don’t think they are going any lower--LOL)---the last 15 seconds I’m pretty much shaking like a leaf, I have tears in my eyes and I think about dropping bodybuilding and becoming a tap dancer on Broadway (ok that parts not true)--My opinion is people should use dumbbells that are a little over half of what your heaviest set of 6-8 reps would be. I cant state this enough--extreme stretching royally sucks!!! Its painful. But I have seen amazing things with people -especially in the quads.

TRICEPS: Seated on a flat bench-my back up against the barbell---75lb dumbell in my hand behind my head(like in an overhead dumbell extension)--sink dumbell down into position for the first 10 seconds and then an agonizing 50 seconds slightly leaning back and pushing the dumbell down with the back of my head I like one arm at a time in the bottom position of a dumbell triceps extension----going to the extreme stretch and then slightly pushing on the dumbell with the back of my head.

SHOULDERS: This one is tough to describe--put a barbell in the squat rack shoulder height--face away from it and reach back and grab it palms up (hands on bottom of bar)---walk yourself outward until you are on your heels and the stretch gets painful--then roll your shoulders downward and hold for 60 seconds.

BICEPS: Olympic bar in a power rack or squat rack about neck high---face away from it and reach back and put both hands over the bar gripping it----now either sink down with one leg forward/one leg back or better yet squat down and try (I say try because its absolutely excruciating) to kneel. Go down to the stretch that is almost unbearable and then hold that for 45 to 60 seconds. Your own bodyweight is the load. What I do is put the bar at a place on the squat rack in which I can kneel at a severe stretch and then try to sink my ass down to touch my feet. If its too easy I put the bar up to the next rung.

BACK: Honestly for about 3 years my training partner and I would hang a 100lb dumbell from our waist and hung on the widest chin-up bar (with wrist straps) to see who could get closest to 3 minutes--I never made it--I think 2 minutes 27 seconds was my record--but my back width is by far my best body part--I pull on a doorknob or stationary equipment with a rounded back now and its way too hard too explain here--just try it and get your feel for it.

HAMSTRINGS: Either leg up on a high barbell holding my toe and trying to force my leg straight with my free hand for an excruciating painful 60 seconds or another exercise I could only show people and not type here.

QUADS: Facing a barbell in a power rack about hip high --grip it and simultaneously sink down and throw your knees under the barbell and do a sissy squat underneath it while going up on your toes. then straighten your arms and lean as far back as you can---60 seconds and if this one doesn't make you hate my guts and bring tears to your eyes nothing will---do this one faithfully and tell me in 4 weeks if your quads don’t look a lot different than they used to.

CALVES: my weak body part that I couldn’t get up too par until 2 years ago when I finally thought it out and figured out how to make them grow (with only one set twice a week too) I don’t need to stretch calves after because when I do calves I explode on the positive and take 5 seconds to get back to full stretch and then 15 seconds at the very bottom "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand etc" --15 seconds stretching at the bottom thinking and trying to flex my toes toward my shin--it is absolutely unbearable and you will most likely be shaking and want to give up at about 7 reps (I always go for 12reps with maximum weights)--do this on a hack squat or a leg press--my calves have finally taken off due to this.


Static Holds:

Different than extreme stretching. I do extreme stretching for each body part after its finished (holding into a weighted stretched position for 60 seconds)--- Statics are what I do immediately after a working set to try to create even more of an overload ---example: lat pulldowns-300x 14 reps rest paused to failure and then immediately I do a static hold which is pull the bar down 4 inches and lean back slightly. I fight like hell to hold it for 20 seconds counting (one one thousand, two one thousand, three...) but I usually end up shaking like a leaf on some movements (incline presses etc)--trying to hold a three hundred plus pound incline press in a 20 sec. Another example: Incline bench press, John Doe has just completed a rest pause set with 275lbs. He takes the bar off the rack and brings it about 4 inches down (as this is usually where peoples strength range is) and tries to hold it there for a true 20 second count. To be totally honest with you its nothing more than a personal favorite of mine to reach an overload threshold--- someone else might want to do burns down near the bottom for 6-15 short reps, someone else might want to do a 20% more weight negative.


Cardio:

Individualistic choice but I like treadmill or a walk around the neighborhood. Days per week - offseason- 0 to 2 times a week, pre-contest--every day except leg days, minutes per sessions - always 45 minutes (60 minutes if someone got to a serious sticking point)


Nutrition:

Protein Powder: I use Optimum pro complex due to its varied proteins (55gram serving) and 5 grams of glutamine (not glutamic acid) per serving (THATS A HUGE REASON FOR ME)--I pay 38 bucks for 4.4lbs on the net (with no shipping because I buy over 200 bucks worth)--yes I go thru a bucket every 5 to 6 days, but not having to buy glutamine separately and getting in 20-30grams each day of it makes me smile. The protein powder is the most expensive thing in my diet everything else is pretty cheap.
Pro Complex Protein 4.6lb on Sale at AdvantageSupplements.com

A sample day for me is (with protein grams after each item) – Bulk Diet:

Breakfast: oatmeal(5) with soy grits and ground flaxseeds on top (23) a little bit of milk(2) in the oatmeal and a protein drink (55)=85grams

After-workout snack: two potatoes(7) and a double serving protein drink in cranberry grape juice (110) =117grams

Lunch: (quick one because of my work)-can of ravioli (11) and protein drink(65) (cup of water cup of milk in there) =76grams

Snack: two 99cent big Macs(54) and 2 cups of milk (20)=74 grams

Dinner: 1lb of hamburger (100) cooked drained and then washed off with water thoroughly (to remove as much fat as possible)with condiments and noodles (4) =104grams

I keep reasonably lean by taking in zero to trace amounts of carbs (found in vegetables) after 6-7pm

Night-time meal: six egg white omelet with peppers or peas(20) or roast beef cold cuts with half waterhalf milk protein drink (65) =85 grams

That’s 541 protein grams on average and with me usually eating larger portions than measured I probably venture toward 600 grams a lot. If you look at the food I eat its pretty cheap,specially the way I buy it in bulk.

Sample Day – Bulk Diet - Total Calories:

1) protein drink(olive oil 600/milk 210/water 0/powder 260/flaxseed 50+ oatmeal 200+ banana 102=1420cals

2) post workout drink=3 cups cranberry juice 390, four scoops protein powder 520, 2 baked potatoes 284=1194cals

3) chicken rice casserole-cup of rice 190 chicken 581, sauce 150 , two cups milk 280=1201 cals

4) T bone steak 1419, water with lemon (trace), mashed potatoes (400)=1819cals

5) protein drink with olive oil 600/powder 260/milk 210/ water 0 and protein bar 290 = 1360

6) two cups 2% milk 280 and 2 cups cottage cheese 440=720

Total calories: 7714


Diet Philosophy: For fat sources, I like omega-3's (flaxseeds) and extra virgin olive oils (mono unsaturated fat)--118 calories per tablespoon. I throw 2-3 tablespoons in my morning and afternoon shakes but not in the post workout or bedtime ones (self explanatory). Go slow with olive oil or you will be seat belting yourself to the toilet the first couple days. As far as diet I am like Palumbo in that aspect...I like high protein, moderate (good) fats and low to moderate carbs..I eat the amount of protein grams I want to ingest first and if its before 6-7pm I satisfy the rest of my hunger with carbs. If I go to McDonalds I'll blast as many hamburgers as I can and skip the fries(laughing) but true. After 6-7pm I will go high protein and trace to low carbs (example huge steak and a lot of a vegetable but no rice, pasta or bread).

This is the way I have found thru trial and error that I can keep myself and people I train fairly lean but still have them gaining at the highest rate. I’m not a calorie counter at all. I’m a protein gram counter. I weigh myself and others once a month on the same scale and if they are not gaining I already know they are on high protein so I fix the problem with added mono unsat's (olive oil), flaxseeds and some extra carbs here or there. A simple way to keep the scale going up: I run into the same problem from time to time and I know I cannot eat any more than I do.....the savior for me is extra virgin olive oil--I work my way up to 3-4 tablespoons per protein drink...118 calories per tablespoon of a mostly monounsaturated fat (besides its other health benefits.
10

I like people to do this at their meals:
1) pound down the protein amount they must get in first for that meal

2) add flax or olive oil to that meal if it allows i.e. protein drinks etc (and its before 6pm)

3) finally eat carbohydrates to satisfy any other hunger pangs at that meal and don’t worry about grams! If you cut your carbs off at 6pm the night before you can pound raisin bran at breakfast and pasta at lunch etc etc your not going to have to worry about it (your going low carb after 6pm again tonight) Off-season you shouldn’t feel like your abstaining or dieting--hell if you want 25 chocolate chip cookies--pound them down at 2pm (after you downed your protein drink first) After 6pm worry about carb grams--keep them low to trace--just delete potatoes, pasta, bread, cereals after 6pm and boatload all the corn, peas, or
vegetables you want with your (after 6pm) protein sources.


Way to cut cost of eating: I buy in bulk period. I buy eggs (5 dozen), ground beef(10lb chubs), rice etc in bulk and save a grip of money. I also always buy according to unit price which seems simple but most people overlook it. I scour flyers for steak deals and go to the supermarket that is selling London Broils for 1.87 a LB and snatch up a slew of them. I am a stingy frugal shopper--my biggest expense is protein powder (I use the 4.4 Pro complex). At lunchtime at work every day I go out to eat (otherwise I go nuts eating homemade food all the time). I am "COUPON BOY"---I get tons of restaurant coupons in the mail
and use them religiously.

Cutting Diet: Lets say "John Smith" is a 275lb bodybuilder holding 16% body fat in the off-season. He is smooth but his heavy training and high protein eating have made it possible for his body to hold 275lbs with probably an ideal contest weight of 226-234lbs or so. Since his present diet is allowing him to hold a "hypothetical" 230lbs of lean mass, what do you think is going to happen on a "cutting diet"....oh he will get ripped but probably at a 60-40 or 70-30 body fat to muscle mass ratio loss. My opinion is to leave the training heavy and leave the diet 90% what it is. The only changes I would make are to be religiously strict with low/trace carbs after 6pm and drop dairy 6 weeks out. Let the cardio take off your body fat!

Forty five minutes at a slightly brisk walk on a treadmill first thing in the morning on an empty stomach-- on every day except leg days will do it. Add in maybe usnic acid and a thermogenic and your going to end up inside out shredded. That’s from a bodybuilding standpoint as I hate seeing someone gain 15lbs of muscle from training so hard in the off-season just to panic diet it all off trying to get ripped. In a general everyday sense for people who don’t care about losing 8-20lbs of muscle mass on their way down to leanness,--cardio and a cutting diet will work faster for them. Again, the diet I prefer is high protein, moderate carbs, and moderate good fats (olive oils, flax oils, EFA's)--your stomach is always going to be full on this diet and I want it to be. A main staple of my way of doing things is cutting carbs at night.

The only carbs coming in after 5, 6, or 7pm (depending on your schedule and your meal timing) are trace carbs found in vegetables and such.
 
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Re: DC training

Very interesting read. It doesn't really go well with my current training either
but it looks promising. I gonna print this one out.
 
Re: DC training

DC is a bad ass bro. Ive spoke to him in the past and I personally know bros hes completely transformed. I like the way he keeps things simple and just focuses on whats important. Exellent post.........once agian!
 
Re: DC training

that's a lot of info. ill have to read it over again sometime. doesn't fit too well with my current training goals either. dont know if i agree with some of the, concepts, but everybody has their own opinions and theories. never know though, ill save the info. maybe ill decide to give it a shot sometime.
 
Re: DC training

Illuminati said:
that's a lot of info. ill have to read it over again sometime. doesn't fit too well with my current training goals either. dont know if i agree with some of the, concepts, but everybody has their own opinions and theories. never know though, ill save the info. maybe ill decide to give it a shot sometime.
i think if i were to go over to 100% bodybuilding i would proll y give this routine a good try..it has produced some big guys
 
Re: DC training

For sheer size, I'd rather stick to HST. Strength, Westside. DC seems to develop a happy medium. It works, no doubt, but it is rough on the joints. One thing I don't like is his example os growing 1/64 an inch per workout, adding up to 52/64 an inch gain on pectoral thickness in a year.

He then assumes that every workout, you'll be growing that 1/64 inch. Let's say, 9 sets, once every 7 days is 1/64 an inch. It's been proven that even with the case of diminishing returns, more sets does equate to more growth, so his one "all out, balls to the wall" set will not produce the same amount of "growth" as 9 sets (say, a 5x5 routine).
 
Re: DC training

Tom Treutlein said:
For sheer size, I'd rather stick to HST. Strength, Westside. DC seems to develop a happy medium. It works, no doubt, but it is rough on the joints. One thing I don't like is his example os growing 1/64 an inch per workout, adding up to 52/64 an inch gain on pectoral thickness in a year.

He then assumes that every workout, you'll be growing that 1/64 inch. Let's say, 9 sets, once every 7 days is 1/64 an inch. It's been proven that even with the case of diminishing returns, more sets does equate to more growth, so his one "all out, balls to the wall" set will not produce the same amount of "growth" as 9 sets (say, a 5x5 routine).
sheer size?? ive seen some of these reults..we're not talking 200 lbers talking walking monsters..science or no science this guy produces results..SIZE.. i also don't agree with his cycling methods..4-500mg is not a "cruise" thers no point in lowering your dose becasue at those "cruise" doses your stills hutting donw hpta..might as well stick with 750 or 1g per week..i liked his approach to diet though..maybe becasue i do something similar lol..super high pro..carbs dont build muscle yes theyre important for energy but id rather have excess pro..
 
Re: DC training

i like the program, as i said. i could see cycling it though. doing a run of that type of training then mixing up the rep scheme with 5x5 a bit or maybe some high rep work to build up your GPP for a while. Build some strength endurance and you can come back and start with higher weights and make the rep scheme. i found that it wasnt the weight, per se that was heavy but the TUT that killed me. so, build up some endurance, so you can handle a higher load initially. IMO
 
Re: DC training

I love his goals, but some of the reasoning is a little screwy.

High incline smith machine press...WASTE OF MY TIME.

two problems:
1. i DONT and WONT train chest, shoulders, and tris on the same day.
2. i DONT grow on little volume.

the alternate program seems a little more feasable.

i will review the nutrition part, but for the remainder of the program i am putting into file 13 (the trash).

Sorry, didnt get throught the nutrition part before i deposited it file 13.
 
Re: DC training

Tom Treutlein said:
For sheer size, I'd rather stick to HST. Strength, Westside. DC seems to develop a happy medium. It works, no doubt, but it is rough on the joints. One thing I don't like is his example os growing 1/64 an inch per workout, adding up to 52/64 an inch gain on pectoral thickness in a year.

He then assumes that every workout, you'll be growing that 1/64 inch. Let's say, 9 sets, once every 7 days is 1/64 an inch. It's been proven that even with the case of diminishing returns, more sets does equate to more growth, so his one "all out, balls to the wall" set will not produce the same amount of "growth" as 9 sets (say, a 5x5 routine).

Hmm...I can't fully agree there, Tom. A 5x5 routine's great for growth, but keep in mind you're training more frequently under Dante's guidelines.

I'd also avoid the 1 vs. 9 sets comparison. The inroading from a DC set, whatwith the rest-pauses and static, is greater than one straight set to failure. Contrarily, not all of the 9 sets in a 5x5 are "equal," either, especially depending on where you are in a training cycle.
 
Re: DC training

cwick0 said:
I love his goals, but some of the reasoning is a little screwy.

High incline smith machine press...WASTE OF MY TIME.

I wouldn't read too much into that choice, biggun. That's just an example of something Dante likes to use himself (to considerable effect, no less).

two problems:
1. i DONT and WONT train chest, shoulders, and tris on the same day.
2. i DONT grow on little volume.

I agree with 1. It's...tough. With the little volume involved it's not too bad, and the stretches help; still, you'd have to lighten up on shoulder and tri training weights initially.

As far as 2 goes, you know yourself better than I do :) Still, you might be surprised at your growth with DC training. It's so much more than most low volume approaches.

Another thing worth noting is the volume part of DC is a bit deceptive. Part of the beauty is that, since you're not doing a ton of work in each workout, you can train that bodypart again within 3-4 days. Also, as I reminded Tom, those rest-pauses and static holds are brutal...it's way more intense than just doing one set to momentary failure, then moving on.

the alternate program seems a little more feasable.

i will review the nutrition part, but for the remainder of the program i am putting into file 13 (the trash).

Sorry, didnt get throught the nutrition part before i deposited it file 13.

What you're doing works incredibly well for you, but I urge you to read a bit more about DC training before you make this determination. Dante has taken some already very strong, dyed-in-the-wool volume guys and turned them into believers by making them retarded strong.

For example, just recently, he started working with new IFBB pro Dave Henry.
Henry says he'd always done 9-12 sets/bodypart, and he was one strong motherfucker in the first place (one-arm DB extensions with 130! They were partials, but to even hold that shit with one arm is crazy). Dave's supposed to be much, much stronger now, and judging by his pictures he's growing at a nice pace, too.

Honestly, though, just reading Cycles For Pennies isn't enough for most guys. It's probably best to talk to DC trainers at places like Muscle Mayhem or maybe intensemuscle.com. Dante himself is quite busy, and I think already too generous with his time; but he has a good circle of friends who understand the routine and have built themselves into geniune monsters with it (especially a poster named Inhuman...he must be a gorilla passing himself off as a man).

Anyway, they're a nice bunch and never act like some in the rabid HIT crowd used to (saying "Anyone who doesn't train like we do SUCKS!" or the like). I bet they'd be happy to talk to an accomplished if skeptical lifter like you.
 
Re: DC training

Right, but even still, you hit bodyparts 2x a week indirectly (usually) with 5x5, and though the 9 sets aren't entirely equal, is does cause more and more stimulation.

Case and point, his point of 52/64" growth and 104/64" growth or whatever is off, and biased towards his methods.
 
Re: DC training

cwick0 said:
I love his goals, but some of the reasoning is a little screwy.

High incline smith machine press...WASTE OF MY TIME.

Pound for pound, strictly talking hypertrophy (which is what this program is about), they're just as good as incline freeweight benches, if not slightly better. If your prime interest is simply size, then it's not a "waste of [your] time."

two problems:
1. i DONT and WONT train chest, shoulders, and tris on the same day.

Any particular reason why? I train my entire body in one training session. Remember that split-training was introduced by Weider as a means to promote his bodybuilders and sell magazines and supplements. It is NOT an ideal training protocol, and never was. Think about what the classic bodybuilders like Reg Park did, in the pre-steroid era, to grow. Full-body workouts, three times a week. Since they didn't have to rely on the crutch of steroids (which can make just about any program effective), I would follow something more along their methods than that of those who go through $50+ grand a year on drugs alone.

2. i DONT grow on little volume.

Again, what makes you so sure you are the magical, unique exception to what has worked for literally hundreds if not thousands of people, of all shapes and sizes, genetics, and differing gear useage? ANYONE can grow on low volume if the progressive loading happens. Don't be so quick to assume that you're somehow the one that can't.

the alternate program seems a little more feasable.

i will review the nutrition part, but for the remainder of the program i am putting into file 13 (the trash).

Sorry, didnt get throught the nutrition part before i deposited it file 13.

Again, although I admit there are flaws in his program, it's a helluva lot better than the style of routine perpetuated in the supplement catalogs of today (commonly referred to as Flex, Musclemag, etc.). THOSE ideas, which turn their nose up to science and/or logic and insist on what sounds almost "magic," are what you should be throwing away. I'm not telling you to try or not try the program. But don't be so quick to dismiss ideas simply because they're in opposition to what you're doing.

.
 
Re: DC training

Damn guldukat, we must have been replying at nearly exactly the same time.
 
Re: DC training

Tom Treutlein said:
Right, but even still, you hit bodyparts 2x a week indirectly (usually) with 5x5, and though the 9 sets aren't entirely equal, is does cause more and more stimulation.

Case and point, his point of 52/64" growth and 104/64" growth or whatever is off, and biased towards his methods.
i think those numbers were meant to illustrate his point not that everyone whos on DC will grow like that after each work out..plus we know no matter what sometimes you may grow over the course of a month but then settle down..you cant expect to grow X inches per workout no matter what routine you follow..
 
Re: DC training

Tom Treutlein said:
Right, but even still, you hit bodyparts 2x a week indirectly (usually) with 5x5, and though the 9 sets aren't entirely equal, is does cause more and more stimulation.

Case and point, his point of 52/64" growth and 104/64" growth or whatever is off, and biased towards his methods.

He was simply using the fractions to illustrate and compare the relative increase, he was in no way referring to actual numbers. This would be difficult to determine.

He's really not saying anything that's all that different from HST. With volume, there is a law of diminishing returns. He'd rather do that first set or two, which is where the bulk of the growth-potential lies, and hit it again as soon as possible, rather than waiting a week as in most splits.

A better usage of numbers might be this, in terms of relative comparison.

DC training session results in 3/64" of an increase in a given session. 10-set volume session results in 4/64". But since the DC is more frequent, it's easily surpassing that mark. As I said, these numbers are made up and only meant to try and clarify his point.
 
Re: DC training

Alright, alright. I guess I can see that.

So what happened to the whole Reg-Park age training? I mean, 3x a week, fullbody routines without the whole planned weights like HST? I mean, didn't they just lift and progressively add weight when they could?

I mean, HST is awesome for size, but strength-wise, it blows.
 
Re: DC training

guldukat said:
The inroading from a DC set, whatwith the rest-pauses and static, is greater than one straight set to failure. Contrarily, not all of the 9 sets in a 5x5 are "equal," either, especially depending on where you are in a training cycle.

Oh but they are equal.

You gotta break this HIT mindset bro

failure != growth. Load = growth.

Failure is just some bullshit neural mechanism that occurs when you try to fire the muscle before the ion gradient can recharge. It serves a protective role in making sure you don't overlift (although that could just be a side-product of evolution)

Failure has nothing to do with the growth process, which is initiated by microscopic muscle damage, which is caused by eccentric motions (lengthening of the muscle) while under load.
 
Re: DC training

casualbb said:
Oh but they are equal.

Not sure if I quite agree. Remember, a rest-paused set will have more overall reps. Instead of 10 reps to failure, for example, you're doing 10 reps, then say 3, then 1 or 2. So, there is more volume than a traditional 1 set to failure protocol.
 
Re: DC training

Debaser said:
Not sure if I quite agree. Remember, a rest-paused set will have more overall reps. Instead of 10 reps to failure, for example, you're doing 10 reps, then say 3, then 1 or 2. So, there is more volume than a traditional 1 set to failure protocol.

i find the rest pause sets very effective in strenght gains. i would add a negative after the rest pause taking to the xtreme.
 
Re: DC training

Just want to add a few thoughts to this discussion...

I have read a LOT about DC Training.cycle for pennies numerous times..posts on other boards...the "FAQ" on muscle mayhem with 100's of posts(still not finished reading that though:) )...and of course was skeptical at first...so I thought "why not try one of these stretches and see what happens"

I chose the chest stretch and within 1-2 weeks my pecs changed size and got a LOT bigger....

I used the back stretch as well for a couple sessions but my shoulders weren't enjoying it very much(though I did notice some width change)

Next I thought "why not try some RP techniques" so I did 15-20 reps RP for biceps and what do you know....bigger biceps..fuller...even a better peak...

This stuff isn't magic...the techniques have been around for awhile..DC doesn't claim to be revolutionary in any respect..he put all the techniques together and made a training program that almost anyone can grow from...

One other thing....from what I've picked up reading the program was originally intended for advanced lifters who had "maxed out" all their gains on conventional programs...but I've seen newbies grow from it too
 
Re: DC training

Debaser said:
Not sure if I quite agree. Remember, a rest-paused set will have more overall reps. Instead of 10 reps to failure, for example, you're doing 10 reps, then say 3, then 1 or 2. So, there is more volume than a traditional 1 set to failure protocol.

you misinterpret...

he goes, "Contrarily, not all of the 9 sets in a 5x5 are "equal," either, especially depending on where you are in a training cycle."

I said: "oh but they are equal"

although now that I think about it the first set is worth more than the second, which is worth more than the third... etc etc

I don't even know what I'm saying. forget it. except the rest of the post, don't forget that.
 
Re: DC training

Guldukat, didn't you say the negatives weren't supposed to be 6-8 seconds as everyone thought, but rather a steady 3-4 second? Basically, a typical negative?

I remember one aspect of DC training I didn't particularly enjoy was the long negatives, which caused a lot of joint pain (specifically the shoulders and elbows).

Debaser, any input on that?

Casual, seeing as the muscles can sustain greater loads under the eccentric portion of a lift, couldn't one just use negatives all the time to allow for greater gains in size (and strength, which seems to be a byproduct of heavy negatives anyway) rather than conventional positive/negative phases of lifting?
 
Re: DC training

Tom Treutlein said:
Casual, seeing as the muscles can sustain greater loads under the eccentric portion of a lift, couldn't one just use negatives all the time to allow for greater gains in size (and strength, which seems to be a byproduct of heavy negatives anyway) rather than conventional positive/negative phases of lifting?

If you do only negatives you will lose positive strength. Plus they're damn inconvenient for a lot of things.

Negatives can be useful when you're already using weights near your positive maxes... they allow more progressive load. But eventually you will condition even to negatives above the 1rm. At that point only deconditioning will allow more progress.
 
Re: DC training

wnt2bBeast said:
i think if i were to go over to 100% bodybuilding i would proll y give this routine a good try..it has produced some big guys

same here. im not 100% bodybuilder either. i like the strength aspects of powerlifting, but along with that, i like getting size from a Body building routine. its hard to find a routine that incorporates the two. but i think that i have found a good mix that im gonna run with for the next 2 months, and see how it goes.
 
Re: DC training

Illuminati said:
same here. im not 100% bodybuilder either. i like the strength aspects of powerlifting, but along with that, i like getting size from a Body building routine. its hard to find a routine that incorporates the two. but i think that i have found a good mix that im gonna run with for the next 2 months, and see how it goes.
5x5 is a good mix..im doing that for every body part except deads/back
 
Re: DC training

guldukat said:
I wouldn't read too much into that choice, biggun. That's just an example of something Dante likes to use himself (to considerable effect, no less).



I agree with 1. It's...tough. With the little volume involved it's not too bad, and the stretches help; still, you'd have to lighten up on shoulder and tri training weights initially.

As far as 2 goes, you know yourself better than I do :) Still, you might be surprised at your growth with DC training. It's so much more than most low volume approaches.

Another thing worth noting is the volume part of DC is a bit deceptive. Part of the beauty is that, since you're not doing a ton of work in each workout, you can train that bodypart again within 3-4 days. Also, as I reminded Tom, those rest-pauses and static holds are brutal...it's way more intense than just doing one set to momentary failure, then moving on.



What you're doing works incredibly well for you, but I urge you to read a bit more about DC training before you make this determination. Dante has taken some already very strong, dyed-in-the-wool volume guys and turned them into believers by making them retarded strong.

For example, just recently, he started working with new IFBB pro Dave Henry.
Henry says he'd always done 9-12 sets/bodypart, and he was one strong motherfucker in the first place (one-arm DB extensions with 130! They were partials, but to even hold that shit with one arm is crazy). Dave's supposed to be much, much stronger now, and judging by his pictures he's growing at a nice pace, too.

Honestly, though, just reading Cycles For Pennies isn't enough for most guys. It's probably best to talk to DC trainers at places like Muscle Mayhem or maybe intensemuscle.com. Dante himself is quite busy, and I think already too generous with his time; but he has a good circle of friends who understand the routine and have built themselves into geniune monsters with it (especially a poster named Inhuman...he must be a gorilla passing himself off as a man).

Anyway, they're a nice bunch and never act like some in the rabid HIT crowd used to (saying "Anyone who doesn't train like we do SUCKS!" or the like). I bet they'd be happy to talk to an accomplished if skeptical lifter like you.


CYCLES FOR PENNIES...hmm...no need for me to cycle, i already cant buy clothes big enough at 255lbs. Plus if i hit any sauce i would be repping over 500 on bench.
 
Re: DC training

Debaser,
I hate anything to do with the Smith machine, it holds you to to strict of a movement and does very little for your stabilizers.

Never juiced and i am a fucking monster, 255lbs. About 5 or 6 years ago i did full body routines, but i never hit my legs or back. I grew a little, but not nearly what i have done since isolating each body part on a given day.

Ive always had my most and best growth from high volume training, i just love it. Part of the problem could lie in the fact that it takes me a while to warm up. e.g. it takes almost 50 reps on bench to get me even luke warm (135x20, 225x15, 275x10, sometimes even 315 before i am warm). I guess i have a love for just destroying whatever body part i am working that day.

The program is definitely better than any in a magazine. I havent read or looked at a mag in 4 or 5 years. I laugh my ass off at the guys in the gym following some mag routine. Ive been lucky over the past 10 years to train with various guys and learn from them, the best ever being a chemistry TA from my undergrad. He was this big and i mean big English guy, ~6' at 293lbs with a 6-pack. His bench sucked (~420), but his back and legs were strong as fuck, he repped over 600 on both squats and deads. His squats were crazy as hell, ALL BACK. I have a modo in the gym that if someone is as big or bigger than me that he didnt get that way over night and i should be able to learn something from him.

Hence, the dc training article got filed into file 13.
 
Re: DC training

guldukat said:
Hmm...I can't fully agree there, Tom. A 5x5 routine's great for growth, but keep in mind you're training more frequently under Dante's guidelines.

I'd also avoid the 1 vs. 9 sets comparison. The inroading from a DC set, whatwith the rest-pauses and static, is greater than one straight set to failure. Contrarily, not all of the 9 sets in a 5x5 are "equal," either, especially depending on where you are in a training cycle.


hmm...is 5x5 actually good for growth? I never seen any major growth till i did 3 sets of 10 at the same weight. I did the 5x5 for a while, i didnt notice much of a change, maybe helped my strength a little. I might not have did it long enough though.
 
Re: DC training

cwick0 said:
CYCLES FOR PENNIES...hmm...no need for me to cycle, i already cant buy clothes big enough at 255lbs.

Neither can I at "only" 240 and 5'6".

Again, I would not get hung up in minutiae like high incline presses or the title of Dante's old articles. That's like saying "The Shawshank Redemption" sucked nuts just because of its ugly name.

Also:

I have a modo in the gym that if someone is as big or bigger than me that he didnt get that way over night and i should be able to learn something from him.

Okay:

Dante's trainee Chris250, 4 weeks out from the North Americans:
attachment.php


attachment.php


Dante at 300+:
attachment.php


attachment.php


I'll see if I can find pictures of Inhuman, Massive G and some of the other 300+ pounders.
 
Re: DC training

cwick0 said:
hmm...is 5x5 actually good for growth? I never seen any major growth till i did 3 sets of 10 at the same weight. I did the 5x5 for a while, i didnt notice much of a change, maybe helped my strength a little. I might not have did it long enough though.

It might not be ideal for growth, but it's time-tested. It worked nicely for Needsize :)
 
Re: DC training

Tom Treutlein said:
Guldukat, didn't you say the negatives weren't supposed to be 6-8 seconds as everyone thought, but rather a steady 3-4 second? Basically, a typical negative?

I remember one aspect of DC training I didn't particularly enjoy was the long negatives, which caused a lot of joint pain (specifically the shoulders and elbows).

Yep. I wouldn't call a 3-4 second negative typical, necessarily :) Based on what I see every time I train, most people do about 1/1 reps, avg. maybe 20 seconds per set.

But typical for just under control, smooth negatives, yeah. Dante's said he just emphasized the 6-8 seconds since so many guys would count too fast.
 
Re: DC training

casualbb said:
you misinterpret...

he goes, "Contrarily, not all of the 9 sets in a 5x5 are "equal," either, especially depending on where you are in a training cycle."

I said: "oh but they are equal"

although now that I think about it the first set is worth more than the second, which is worth more than the third... etc etc

I don't even know what I'm saying. forget it. except the rest of the post, don't forget that.

So should I just skip over this one, then? Hehe :)

I think I know what you were trying to say, and you did make other good points. The part about failure not initiating growth is especially well-taken. I knew that, but all those years of Mentzer brainwashing have been very hard to undo. Sometimes the old beliefs sneak their way back in. ;)

Ah, well...I know Dante doesn't really care if people like his methods or not. I'm certainly not here to say anyone's doing wrong with more volume, less frequency or whatever. The results of these other programs, like Needsize's awesome gains with 5x5 or Cwick's 405x6 (?) bench from 3x10, speak for themselves.

Just the same, DC's results also speak for themselves, and I think it deserves the same respect we'd afford other methods. It most assuredly works, for naturals and enhanced alike. Someone like a lean 320 lb. Inhuman or 305 lb. Dante doesn't get to that kind of size with "just drugs." (No one said that, but I've talked about training w/ enough people to know which way the wind blows.)
 
Re: DC training

guldukat said:
Neither can I at "only" 240 and 5'6".

Again, I would not get hung up in minutiae like high incline presses or the title of Dante's old articles. That's like saying "The Shawshank Redemption" sucked nuts just because of its ugly name.

Also:



Okay:

Dante's trainee Chris250, 4 weeks out from the North Americans:
attachment.php


attachment.php


Dante at 300+:
attachment.php


attachment.php


I'll see if I can find pictures of Inhuman, Massive G and some of the other 300+ pounders.

You are one THICK SOB! Im 5'10.5" so you may have me beat on thickness and have more trouble than me getting clothes to fit.

Ill take a look at some of the links.

Lastly, i dont want to be 300lbs like some of these guys, that is entirely too big.
 
Re: DC training

Ah, well...I know Dante doesn't really care if people like his methods or not. I'm certainly not here to say anyone's doing wrong with more volume, less frequency or whatever. The results of these other programs, like Needsize's awesome gains with 5x5 or Cwick's 405x6 (?) bench from 3x10, speak for themselves.
[/QUOTE]

lol. Check out WalkingBeast's training log and you will see my chest routines for the past couple of months. About a month and a half or so ago i got 405 for 5x5, this week i did sets of 10 (275, 315, 365) till i hit 405 for the 6. I want 405 for a solid set of 10.
 
Re: DC training

cwick0 said:
You are one THICK SOB! Im 5'10.5" so you may have me beat on thickness and have more trouble than me getting clothes to fit.

Heh, I dunno about that :) But I'm honored *small bow* If only I was this weight and ripped! Or even CLOSE! LOL.

Ill take a look at some of the links.

Lastly, i dont want to be 300lbs like some of these guys, that is entirely too big.

I understand what you mean. I think Dante said he wanted to scale back to around 280 or so. Carrying 300 sounds *rough*!
 
Re: DC training

cwick0 said:
lol. Check out WalkingBeast's training log and you will see my chest routines for the past couple of months. About a month and a half or so ago i got 405 for 5x5, this week i did sets of 10 (275, 315, 365) till i hit 405 for the 6. I want 405 for a solid set of 10.

You'd have 405 for 8 fresh I bet. Natty, only 25, and you'll match Arnold's best bench! *eyes get wide* Pretty damn awesome.

One more link about DC stuff:

http://www.teamvasquezbodybuilding.com/Az_top_bodybuilders.html

There are some videos there of Dave Henry and Scott Stevenson doing a little DC training. No disrespect to those gents, but it's kinda hard to tell what's going on, though :(
 
Re: DC training

some nice stats goldie!! C- i know you tried 5x5 but i think this routine really shows its merits the more you stick with it you dont want to rush to get to your heaviest weight you want to give it time to build a base..im seeing good results with it now as im getting to my near max weights..the reason i posted this even though theres a sticky on this there are always threads how do i build big arms etc this offers a complete method/training/diet/ drugs (i dont agree with his cycling method) but it an option if you want to take that road..its like some said this is so much better than some flex article on building huge delts in 8 weeks
 
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Re: DC training

guldukat said:
You'd have 405 for 8 fresh I bet. Natty, only 25, and you'll match Arnold's best bench! *eyes get wide* Pretty damn awesome.

One more link about DC stuff:

http://www.teamvasquezbodybuilding.com/Az_top_bodybuilders.html

There are some videos there of Dave Henry and Scott Stevenson doing a little DC training. No disrespect to those gents, but it's kinda hard to tell what's going on, though :(

All natty and only 25 (getting old quick, lol), no supplements in approximately a year either. I dont eat a ton either and still keep growing. I put on around 5-6lbs this summer. My big numbers are on bench, tris (close-grip), and military.

Those are some big mfs. Is Scott shrugging in the one video?


wnt2beast,
I constantly change my chest routine, so 5x5 will get worked back in again. I went back to 3x10 with the same weight to see what i could handle, just missed 365 (10,10,8).
 
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Re: DC training

those are rack deads C..dont take this the wrong way these guys got great physiques but when you pull from the knees up it really isnt that impressive..racks should be used to work a sticking point and to get the feel of supra max weights in your hands..looks like hes got 585 on there.im not tooting my own horn lol but i use over 6 when pulling like that in a rack for reps
 
Re: DC training

cwick0 said:
NO PROBLEM.

They dont look like very much fun, :).
i started doing them for a few weeks but i noticed it threw me off when i would pull from the floor. my weakness is off the floor if i get it too my knees i lock it out 100 % oercent of the time..for those that struggle with lockout then this is a very good way to fix that.. they do remove some of the leg work of reg deads..its just another tool on ones arsenal
 
Re: DC training

wnt2bBeast said:
i started doing them for a few weeks but i noticed it threw me off when i would pull from the floor. my weakness is off the floor if i get it too my knees i lock it out 100 % oercent of the time..for those that struggle with lockout then this is a very good way to fix that.. they do remove some of the leg work of reg deads..its just another tool on ones arsenal

you got problems off the floor? try some platform deads. put your weight on the bar for deads, and then get one of those aerobic step things. center it under the bar. you should have enough room to get your feet between the bar and the platform. try pulling from here. it forces you to get a little bit lower, and it also makes you pull more of a distance. this helped me a lot. you are also starting lower than you would normally.
 
Re: DC training

Illuminati said:
you got problems off the floor? try some platform deads. put your weight on the bar for deads, and then get one of those aerobic step things. center it under the bar. you should have enough room to get your feet between the bar and the platform. try pulling from here. it forces you to get a little bit lower, and it also makes you pull more of a distance. this helped me a lot. you are also starting lower than you would normally.
thanks illum i started them last week.. i used a 45 lb plate..each couple of weeks im going to up the distance until i get to where my feet just make it under the bar..then im going to try a max pull..keep pullin!!!!
 
Re: DC training

Do IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Great program, really! You know that already though, or you wouldn't have bumped this:biggrin:

btw...Thanks for bumping this:)
 
Re: DC training

Even though my training has a lot of heavy work in it, I haven't really done any proper strength training for nearly two years.

I also like the idea of going back to something not far off a full body workout, and I have trained that upper/lower body split before.

And my bench has been stagnant/struggling at 60 kg for nearly a year. Actually, when I think about it, a few of my lifts haven't moved up since around May.

The only think I have noticed is that there is no specific trap work, or am I missing something?
 
Re: DC training

DOH, I just realised you don't need to do traps if you are doing heavy deads, anyway, my traps are freaking massive as it is. :qt:

A little note, this is not a newbie type of training program, this is something you would do after at least a year to two years of training.

It is also not one of those program you try out for a month, I would have at least 6 months to a year to dedicate to DC training.

Extreme stretching

ImageShack(TM) slideshow
 
Re: DC training

DOH, I just realised you don't need to do traps if you are doing heavy deads, anyway, my traps are freaking massive as it is. :qt:

A little note, this is not a newbie type of training program, this is something you would do after at least a year to two years of training.

It is also not one of those program you try out for a month, I would have at least 6 months to a year to dedicate to DC training.

Extreme stretching

ImageShack(TM) slideshow

My traps/upper back have blown up training this way. My BB rows and Deadlifts have really increased since March. This program will make you thick.
 
Re: DC training

Ok, my routine

Monday - Hammerstrength (HS) day (this is because most Mondays I don't have my training buddy)

Chest

HS Incline Bench
x3 warmups
x1 working set - rest pause (rp) first set 7-10 reps (total 11-15 rp)

Shoulders
HS military press
x3 warmup
x 1 working set same as incline bench 11-15 rp


Back width

Close grip pulldowns
x2 warmups
x1 working set same as above 11-15 rp


Back Thickness
1 x warm up set
Rack pulls 6-9 reps + 9-12 reps straight sets

Triceps

1 x warmup set
E-Z bar tricep extentions on a incline 15-30 rp


Extreme stretching

Wednesday


Hamstrings

Lying leg curls
2x warmup sets
1 x working set 15-30 rp

Quads
3 x warmup
1 x working set front squats
1 x widow maker hack squats or back squats (20 reps)


Calves

Seated calves
1 x warmup set
1 x 10-12 reps straight set

Biceps

HS preacher curls
2 x warmup sets
1 x working set 11-20 rp

Forearms

Alternating pinwheel curls

1x 10-20 reps straight set

Extreme stretching


Thursday- Free weight day (should be Friday but no training buddy most Fridays )


Chest

Free flat bench
3 x warm ups
1x working set (11-15 rp)

Shoulders

Free miltary press
3x warmups sets
1 x working set (11-20 rp)

Back thickness

T-bar rows
10-12 reps straight set

Back width

Front rack chins
3x warmups
1 x working set 11-20 rp

Triceps

Reverse grip bench press/close grip bench press
2 x warmups
1 x working set 11-20 rp

Extreme stretching

Saturday

Hamstrings

Sumo Leg press
1x warmup set
15-25 straight set

Quads

Squats
3 x warmups
1 x working set 6-9 reps
1 x widow maker 20 reps

Calves

Leg press calf press
1 x warm up
1 x 10-15 reps straight set

Biceps

Barbell drag curls/gironda curls
1 x warmups
1 x working set 11-20 rp

Forearms
Hammer curls
1 x straight set 10-20 reps

Extreme stretching
 
Re: DC training

Exercise selection looks good. You do have three exercises for each body part picked out to rotate through, right? Also your exercise order is off. I know some people train in a different order, but it is probably best to do them as Dante prescribes.

A)Chest, Shoulders, Tris, BackW, BackT
B)Bis, Forearms, Calves, Hams, Quads

Also another thing, and this is just something that works for me, is to use a higher rep range for shoulders and backW. My shoulders take a beating between my chest and tri exercises so I keep shoulders in the 15-20 rep range and they are growing great.

I am looking forward to seeing how you like this program. I am sure you will gain some quality mass training this way. When is your next contest?
 
Re: DC training

I just realised that I have only done two exercises, ta.

I did shift the order of the exercises, so it isn't a big deal to put them back in the same order.

At least I will have till the weekend to make up another

A) upper body
B) lower body + bits day

LOL, I am going to try and put on some more muscle, it could be a bit scary as I already looked like a bit of a BEAST next to the other nattie girls.

:)


There are two comps in 6 and 8 weeks, but I am really torn, I am not sure if I really want to diet more this year.

Otherwise, the first possible comp next year would be end of April.

I could 'bulk' for about 6 months if I don't do any more comps this year.
 
Re: DC training

I only wonder if the day 1 is ok for someone whose triceps are lacking??

Sure chest and delt movement wont cause much strength drop for triceps like other BB programs, but i still wonder if it is good for triceps.
Will it be possible to recruit the same amount of motor units??

Anyone?
 
Re: DC training

Yes. You are destroying your chest and delts with heavy presses. Your triceps are involved greatly in this. Once it is time to hit tris they have already received quite a bit of stimulation. Factor in the greater training frequency and your tris are getting demolished basically twice a week. If your tris are a precieved weak point than you can use your head and select the chest and delt exercises that will stimulate your tris the most.
 
Re: DC training

thanks
I read DC saying that too.

btw, not exactly Dc style but I have been doing alternate dumbell curls for 7-8 reps and then 2 reps after 10 second rest. I am doing 2 sets and the strength gains are coool. I am also applying max isometric 1-2 minute before entering set.
Triceps were same with pushdowns.
Today was the last workout like this.
Even with low protein intake and RAmadan, I gained good strength so I can imagine what DC training will do when you listen to Dante!!
 
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Re: DC training

this thread is good info, but I would go over to intensemuscle.com and read all the stickies in the doggpound...and read them over several times to be sure you have digested the info properly...before getting started. If you are going to do DC, intensemuscle should be the place you are getting all your DC info.

Tat, they have plenty of ladies over there too. Several that compete in figure and BB'ing. Island Girl (a poster over there) is an NPC judge. She and "Paradise Cup" are the main gals over there.
 
Re: DC training

this thread is good info, but I would go over to intensemuscle.com and read all the stickies in the doggpound...and read them over several times to be sure you have digested the info properly...before getting started. If you are going to do DC, intensemuscle should be the place you are getting all your DC info.

Tat, they have plenty of ladies over there too. Several that compete in figure and BB'ing. Island Girl (a poster over there) is an NPC judge. She and "Paradise Cup" are the main gals over there.

I already have. :)

I read most of yesterday afternoon before I wrote up the program.


There is a link in this thread to intense muscle I believe, or a link to another sticky about DC that has a link to IntenseMuscle.

Dante seems like a really decent chap, I also like his curing shoulder injury exercise.
 
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Re: DC training

Just started yesterday. Here was my workout and i'm dropping ego posting these numbers LOL. I've never done 20 rep squats, much less 20 reps squats, hacks, and presses. I did the stretches too, although i can't hold them for 60 seconds yet so i'm aiming for 30 seconds, rest, then another 30 seconds. I'm sore today!!

aaci7s.jpg
 
Re: DC training

Here is tomorrows workout. I want to do something else instead of hammer presses for chest. They always put a weird strain on my shoulder when i go heavy. Could i:

1. Switch flat Smythe for hammer?
2. Switch weighted dips for decline?

Thanks.

1z5ivzo.jpg
 
Re: DC training

Just started yesterday. Here was my workout and i'm dropping ego posting these numbers LOL. I've never done 20 rep squats, much less 20 reps squats, hacks, and presses. I did the stretches too, although i can't hold them for 60 seconds yet so i'm aiming for 30 seconds, rest, then another 30 seconds. I'm sore today!!

You're only doing one exercise per bodypart, per training session, right? You're not doing all three (Squats/Hacks/Leg Presses) in one day are you?:worried:
 
Re: DC training

You're only doing one exercise per bodypart, per training session, right? You're not doing all three (Squats/Hacks/Leg Presses) in one day are you?:worried:

You change the exercise through three sessions, not do them all on the same day, more or less alternating upper and lower body (with biceps are forearms on lower body day).

Also don't forget the extreme stretching, it is a big part of it.

I know it seems odd to people to really only do one working set, but most people overtrain in my experience.

So today, Monday I mostly did hammerstrength machines as no training buddy

Bench

Military press

Tricep EZ bar skull crushers

Close grip pull downs

Rack dead lifts

Next time I do this workout I will be doing mostly free weights as I will have training buddy on Thurs/Friday

Incline Bench

Military press to front

Close grip bench

Front rack chins

T bar rows

THEN the NEXT time (the following Wed) I will do my third set of exercises I haven't worked out yet, but it will mostly be on the smith machine.........
 
Re: DC training

You're only doing one exercise per bodypart, per training session, right? You're not doing all three (Squats/Hacks/Leg Presses) in one day are you?:worried:

lol

I would die!!!

I squated for the first time today for this new blast. It has been three weeks since I have last squated. I went a little crazy and i actually blew the blood vessels around my eyes and I have a big red spot in the white of my right eye. My ears actually poped during my set. This has never happened to me before lol. I tried an easy Widow (there is no such thing) and I left the bar on the pins on my 18th rep. Very fun stuff lol.
 
holy shit, no wonder i can't walk today. Fuck. After those 3 exercises i laid down next to the sled and contemplated dropping DC.

I was wondering how in the fuck i was going to do deadlifts in 2 days.

That's what I get for fucking copying and pasting and not reading the whole fucking sticky.

Sorry for all the fucks, i feel like a huge moron. Damn, i need to go back and do some reading.
 
I can't help but laugh now at my dumbass. What you see in that first spreadsheet is what i did on sunday in the span of about 1 hour 30 minutes.

So when it comes to the concept of "beating the logbook", you would then look back to when you last did squats and try to beat that. Not what you did in the last workout because you would have done say hacks or presses then.

Damn damn damn
 
holy shit, no wonder i can't walk today. Fuck. After those 3 exercises i laid down next to the sled and contemplated dropping DC.

I was wondering how in the fuck i was going to do deadlifts in 2 days.

That's what I get for fucking copying and pasting and not reading the whole fucking sticky.

Sorry for all the fucks, i feel like a huge moron. Damn, i need to go back and do some reading.

Bless, your leg lactic acid is punishment enough.

Don't feel bad, I only planned out two of the three days for the upper and lower body.

Did you do the extreme stretching?

I had half the gym trying the 'sort your shoulder' stretch.
 
i work this routine 2 times per year. for me it is the best. you really have to be able to work a set hard if you are going to gain from it. i do 1 straight set and static hold off cycle and 8-5-2- static hold on cycle.
 
ahh...now you know why I tell everyone to go read all the stickies and re-read them ten more times, then lay out your plan, then read again, etc. Sometimes it takes a while to get your brain wrapped around this...especially if you've been doing volume training a while. You really have to be ready for DC. You have to know your body pretty damn well too. First time I tried DC was back in 2004 I think. I decided I wasn't ready for it. 3 years later, I knew I was.
 
Yeah... my first blast was a clusterfuck too. Poor exercise selection and I made mistakes on my rep ranges. It took me until my third blast to really figure everything out and get down and dirty in a true 11-15 rep range hitting absolute failure on the RPs. I also had to cruise three weeks to recover lol. This is serious business and I understand why Dante does not recommend this to newbies and those who are not dedicated. Hell, the massive amounts of food it takes just to recover from these workouts should be enough to scare most weekend warriors away.
 
You guys are great. I cringe to think at the flamefest i would have suffered if i posted this at intensemuscle.

Ceo you are absolutely right, i felt something was off but this didn't look at all strange to me because i've been doing volume training for so long. The only high frequency/low volume i've ever done was a 5x5 2 years ago and that is just too simple to screw up.

I did do the stretching. It was extremely painful and i could only last 30 seconds so i did 30 seconds twice on each (quads/hams/biceps). The calf stretches are built into the exercise form itself. Calves have never been so challenging.

I practiced all of the stretches last week when i was researching and i think my legs would be a lot worse had i not done the stretching. The shoulder one took me a while to get the feel for. Essentially, once it starts hurting you know you have it. When i first looked at the pictures of these stretches i thought they would feel really good! Damn was i wrong. It feels great later but those 30 seconds ticked by in SLOW motion.

So, back to the stickies for now. At least my spreadsheet is ready to go. I just need to pick one exercise per group and rotate each workout.

Thanks for all your help.
 
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Love DC training. I have been doing it since the end of November. Gains were great at first, but I slacked for a while during the summer and still didn't lose any weight and only a few reps off what I was doing. I was working out only about once a week for about 2 months. Been back at it full steam now for a few weeks and reps are going up every time again.

Can't wait to hit my winter cycle and see what happens :)
 
It is grunt training as if you don't hit it hard with one working set, you won't get anywhere.

That being said, I though I read somewhere that it is adviseable to go through one week more or less as straight sets just to see if your body can deal with it and recover.

I have been working with free weights almost exclusively for the last year, so sorting out what I need to put on the hammerstrength machines (god some of the chest machines are just awesome for you ego :)) will take at least one go.


I think I will be going a wee bit lighter on my warm-up sets, especially the first one, and do 20-25 reps.

My shoulder/tendonitis was ACHING yesterday, I thought doing heavy chest and shoulders would mean more pain today, but after the extreme stretching, I feel freaking awesome today.

Just that nice sort of dull heavy feeling/slight ache to remind you that you trained.
 
Yeah Tat, i'm liking this extreme stretching. My legs feel pretty good today. I'm back to the stickies and have redone my split modeled after a spreadsheet mwm5 sent me. I'm still not sure i'm going to start this, and if i do i'm not going to attempt the rest-pause right away either.

Tuesday Sep 30 2008:
Incline Smythe Bench Press 11-15 RP
Smythe Shoulder Press 10-20 RP
Rack Deadlifts 6-9 SS
-- 2nd set 9-12 SS
Pullups (overhand grip) 15-30 RP
Close Grip Bench Press 11-20 RP

Thursday Oct 2 2008
Squats 6-10 SS
-- widowmaker 20 WM
Seated Calf Raises 10-12 SS
Seated Leg Curls 15-30 RP
Preacher Curls 11-20 RP
Hammer Curls 10-20 SS

Sunday Oct 5 2008
Decline Smythe Bench Press 11-15 RP
DB Shoulder Press 10-20 RP
T-Bar Rows 10-12 SS
-- 2nd set 9-12 SS
Pullups (underhand grip) 15-30 RP
Reverse Grip Bench 11-20 RP

Tuesday Oct 7 2008
Hack Squats 6-10 SS
-- widowmaker 20 WM
Hack Squat Toe Press 10-12 SS
Stiff Leg Deadlifts 15-30 RP
Barbell Drag Curls 11-20 RP
1 Arm Reverse Cable Curls 10-20 SS

Thursday Oct 9 2008
Hammer Chest Press 11-15 RP
Hammer Shoulder Press 11-15 RP
Deadlifts 6-9 SS
-- 2nd set 9-12 SS
Pullups (neutral grip) 15-30 RP
Weighted Dips 15-30 RP

Sunday Oct 12 2008
Leg Press 6-10 SS
-- widowmaker 20 WM
Leg Press Toe Press 10-12 SS
Sumo Leg Press 15-25 SS
Dumbbell Curls 11-20 RP
Pinwheel Curls 10-20 SS
 
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Yeah Tat, i'm liking this extreme stretching. My legs feel pretty good today. I'm back to the stickies and have redone my split modeled after a spreadsheet mwm5 sent me. I'm still not sure i'm going to start this, and if i do i'm not going to attempt the rest-pause right away either.

Tuesday Sep 30 2008:
Incline Smythe Bench Press 11-15 RP
Smythe Shoulder Press 10-20 RP
Rack Deadlifts 6-9 SS
-- 2nd set 9-12 SS
Pullups (overhand grip) 15-30 RP
Close Grip Bench Press 11-20 RP

Thursday Oct 2 2008
Squats 6-10 SS
-- widowmaker 20 WM
Seated Calf Raises 10-12 SS
Seated Leg Curls 15-30 RP
Preacher Curls 11-20 RP
Hammer Curls 10-20 SS

Sunday Oct 5 2008
Decline Smythe Bench Press 11-15 RP
DB Shoulder Press 10-20 RP
T-Bar Rows 10-12 SS
-- 2nd set 9-12 SS
Pullups (underhand grip) 15-30 RP
Reverse Grip Bench 11-20 RP

Tuesday Oct 7 2008
Hack Squats 6-10 SS
-- widowmaker 20 WM
Hack Squat Toe Press 10-12 SS
Stiff Leg Deadlifts 15-30 RP
Barbell Drag Curls 11-20 RP
1 Arm Reverse Cable Curls 10-20 SS

Thursday Oct 9 2008
Hammer Chest Press 11-15 RP
Hammer Shoulder Press 11-15 RP
Deadlifts 6-9 SS
-- 2nd set 9-12 SS
Pullups (neutral grip) 15-30 RP
Weighted Dips 15-30 RP

Sunday Oct 12 2008
Leg Press 6-10 SS
-- widowmaker 20 WM
Leg Press Toe Press 10-12 SS
Sumo Leg Press 15-25 SS
Dumbbell Curls 11-20 RP
Pinwheel Curls 10-20 SS

This looks good. A few things though.....

Your exercise order is off. There is no way in heel I could do anything after going all out of Quads and BackT. This is the correct order of operation lol.....

A) Chest, Shoulders, Tris, BackW, BackT
B) Bis, Forearms, Calves, Hams, Quads

I would follow this order. Also DB lifts should be done in the 20-30 rep range. If you use 10-20 RP you will have a hard time hoisting the DBs into position for 2 reps on your last RP. Trust me, I learned this the hard way. Your ego will take a hit training DBs this way, but in a few months when you are getting 28 reps RP with the weight you could barely get 16 RP starting out in that lower rep range you will be happy. Another thing... This is something I personally prefer... I like to do shoulders in the 15-20 RP. The 11-15 RP kills me especially after chest and with my triceps exercises (weighted dips, CGBP, RGBP) shoulders get hit hard as well. It's something to think about.
 
One more thing.... This one is common sense, but I made this mistake in my first blast. Start at the top of you rep range and work down over the course of your blast. If you are doing 11-15 shoot for 17 your first go around. This is hard to gauge at first, but after a few blasts you will know where you stand with certain exercises.
 
This looks good. A few things though.....

Your exercise order is off. There is no way in heel I could do anything after going all out of Quads and BackT. This is the correct order of operation lol.....

A) Chest, Shoulders, Tris, BackW, BackT
B) Bis, Forearms, Calves, Hams, Quads

I would follow this order. Also DB lifts should be done in the 20-30 rep range. If you use 10-20 RP you will have a hard time hoisting the DBs into position for 2 reps on your last RP. Trust me, I learned this the hard way. Your ego will take a hit training DBs this way, but in a few months when you are getting 28 reps RP with the weight you could barely get 16 RP starting out in that lower rep range you will be happy. Another thing... This is something I personally prefer... I like to do shoulders in the 15-20 RP. The 11-15 RP kills me especially after chest and with my triceps exercises (weighted dips, CGBP, RGBP) shoulders get hit hard as well. It's something to think about.

This is great stuff. Thanks. That exercise order makes complete sense. I'm still thinking in terms of volume (do big compounds first).

I'm going through posts now on intensemuscle and it's hard to find stuff this specific. Thanks!
 
One more thing.... This one is common sense, but I made this mistake in my first blast. Start at the top of you rep range and work down over the course of your blast. If you are doing 11-15 shoot for 17 your first go around. This is hard to gauge at first, but after a few blasts you will know where you stand with certain exercises.

got it! Makes perfect sense.
 
This is great stuff. Thanks. That exercise order makes complete sense. I'm still thinking in terms of volume (do big compounds first).

I'm going through posts now on intensemuscle and it's hard to find stuff this specific. Thanks!

It took me a little while to get my head around this too. I trained with a group of powerlifters. It was always Squat then assistance lifts, bench then assistance lifts, Dead then assistance lifts. If you are used to training like this you have to kind of "de-program" yourself. You will get it, and it will all make sense:supercool
 
Clusterfucking lol

My blast is going good. Progressing every workout. I added a back thickness widow maker to two of my (A) days. I have only done this twice now, but so far so good. I am doing a JS/Pendlay row after my back thickness exercises. Right now I am only using 135(with a belt and straps) and the goal is 50 reps before I add 5 or 10 pounds. Today I hit 40 reps. I let the bar unload on the ground for a second between every rep. I have never done anything that has pumped my whole back quite like this. I do these, catch my breath, then go hang from the bar. Stretch mark city lol. I do not recommend this to anyone. Dante would probably shit a brick if he seen this, and ceo would call me an idiot lol. This exercise would be better suited for the three way split, but so far so good. I do not think these will impact my training in a negative way. They are fun too.
 
One more thing.... This one is common sense, but I made this mistake in my first blast. Start at the top of you rep range and work down over the course of your blast. If you are doing 11-15 shoot for 17 your first go around. This is hard to gauge at first, but after a few blasts you will know where you stand with certain exercises.

I just saw this, right now most of my rest pauses have been near the lower end of the range, I may check my weights again and see if I can progress with more weight a bit faster.

I just found out why you really, really need at least one day between lifting days.

I tried doing lower body after upper, but my back really wasn't up to the seriously heavy squatting, so I had to stick to the same weight as last time.

I am really happy with my form though, full on below parallel, bum to floor type squatting.

As my quads are one part I want to bring up, I am annoyed that it wasn't as full on as possible.

Extreme stretching hurts, but I think it will make all the difference with my quads.

I know Dante has said that you can change exercises for your widow maker on legs, but as I have front squats and back squats for my heavy set, do you think doing another widow maker with squats is ok with both?

I did swap it up to hack squats tonight after back squats.
 
I don't get why, but I found on the third attempt (i.e., quad training day) at the extreme quad stretch, I could get my head on the ground.

Suprised flexibiltiy improved that quickly

I just saw this, right now most of my rest pauses have been near the lower end of the range, I may check my weights again and see if I can progress with more weight a bit faster.

I just found out why you really, really need at least one day between lifting days.

I tried doing lower body after upper, but my back really wasn't up to the seriously heavy squatting, so I had to stick to the same weight as last time.

I am really happy with my form though, full on below parallel, bum to floor type squatting.

As my quads are one part I want to bring up, I am annoyed that it wasn't as full on as possible.

Extreme stretching hurts, but I think it will make all the difference with my quads.

I know Dante has said that you can change exercises for your widow maker on legs, but as I have front squats and back squats for my heavy set, do you think doing another widow maker with squats is ok with both?

I did swap it up to hack squats tonight after back squats.
 
I just saw this, right now most of my rest pauses have been near the lower end of the range, I may check my weights again and see if I can progress with more weight a bit faster.

I just found out why you really, really need at least one day between lifting days.

I tried doing lower body after upper, but my back really wasn't up to the seriously heavy squatting, so I had to stick to the same weight as last time.

I am really happy with my form though, full on below parallel, bum to floor type squatting.

As my quads are one part I want to bring up, I am annoyed that it wasn't as full on as possible.

Extreme stretching hurts, but I think it will make all the difference with my quads.

I know Dante has said that you can change exercises for your widow maker on legs, but as I have front squats and back squats for my heavy set, do you think doing another widow maker with squats is ok with both?

I did swap it up to hack squats tonight after back squats.

I tried to take SLs advice right away. I'm keeping everything on the high end of the rep range. I do not increase in weight until i can surpass the high end. Maybe next blast i'll try and keep it in the middle but i'm liking this protocol now because its keeping me from overdoing it. Everytime i get tempted to up the weight when i didn't reach the high end of the rep range previously, i sort of slap my wrist, put the same weight back on, and get determined to break the previous week's rep #. Its a different kind of motivation so to speak, i reward myself the following week by upping the weight if i can push out the high end of the rep range with the current weight.

Also for the legs/back issue, i scheduled my floor deadlifts and barbell squats as far apart as possible. I need a lot more than 1 day between these 2 movements :)
 
This is so confusing!!!

Any one got a link that can give ma a laymans explanation of DC?

The short answer is no LOL. The best thing to do is go to IntenseMuscle.com - Powered by vBulletin and read the stickies. I would personally start with this one:

UPDATED--DC training Newbies ***read this first and then ask questions later - IntenseMuscle.com

It seems that people get frustrated that there is not a sort of "DC for dummies" somewhere. IMO (n00b speaking here) it is not possible to write such a thing. The first thing that must be done is to unlearn all that you have learned. Become a blank slate. Free yourself from any preconceived notions of the necessities for volume. This has to be done before grasping DC. Because no author can do this for the reader, a quick summary is not really possible.

Just my 2 pennies.
 
Thanks Onebreath, good info as usual.

OK, so who advocates DC training on EF? I mean, are the results spectacular?

The guys with the most experience that i know of are ceo, SouthernLord, mwm5, and Rageofsparta.

Myself, Tatyana, and Thandie just started recently. They are keeping journals in the Womens section and i have one in this section.

the_alcatraz and ironwings are planning to start in Jan.
 
Thanks Onebreath, good info as usual.

OK, so who advocates DC training on EF? I mean, are the results spectacular?

This is not a newbie program. It is not even an intermediate program.

It is an advanced program for those who get the whole concept of pushing yourself and going balls to the wall every time you train.

Dante has said that this is one of those 'last resort' sort of programs if you have exhausted all other methods for putting on muscle.
 
This is not a newbie program. It is not even an intermediate program.

It is an advanced program for those who get the whole concept of pushing yourself and going balls to the wall every time you train.

Dante has said that this is one of those 'last resort' sort of programs if you have exhausted all other methods for putting on muscle.

Exactly! Which is why there is no "DC for Dummies" of sorts. DC isn't for everyone. Some folks will never be ready for it. Some folks will take a long time to be ready for it. Others will be ready for it after as little as 3 years of serious training.

People should know their body and be in tune with it in all aspects and have been seriously lifting for at least 3-5 years before starting DC.

Do you know how your body responds and its limitations in areas like training, recovery, diet and supplementation, rest? Do you "listen" to your body and learn quickly from it?

For example, I know exactly what my body requires nutrition-wise before I am ready to go into the gym on blast day (110% balls to the wall effort, max weight for 12-20 rest-paused reps). If I don't have that minimum requirement, I won't have a good workout and will not beat my logbook. It's like planning a road trip. You know you need at least half a tank of gas to get to your destination without stopping because you know how many miles it is, and how many miles your car can go on half a tank. And that's just one piece of the puzzle!

Even then, no matter what you think you know, when you start DC even the most experienced, in-tune with themselves lifters will learn something about themselves.
 
This is not a newbie program. It is not even an intermediate program.

It is an advanced program for those who get the whole concept of pushing yourself and going balls to the wall every time you train.

Dante has said that this is one of those 'last resort' sort of programs if you have exhausted all other methods for putting on muscle.

Thats good...cos Im no newb!!!!

However this program looks like its gonna take a LOT of planning, think Ill take my time and see how Onebreath and Tat get on :evil:

I must say, I been volume training the ast 4 weeks, slow reps and very high intensity and Im likin the results...

Also Im at a fairly advanced level Yoga and I like the idea of the stretches involved in DC....keep us posted
 
Ok, I think I am into about week 4-5, and even with coming off the diet and eating loads, I am pretty sure I am putting on some serious mass.

The last time I weighed the amount that I do right now, around 72 kg/154 lbs, 11 stone 4, I looked like a big fat bloater.

I am not shredded by any means, and I have some tummy and lower back chub, but I still have the whole BBer shape, and I look BIG.

:heart:
 
Thanks Onebreath, good info as usual.

OK, so who advocates DC training on EF? I mean, are the results spectacular?

doggcrapp is my favorite by far. i get awesome gains from it. i have ran this program twice so far i am in my third now.
 
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