Doggcrapp Training

[cwick0]

Re: DC training

let me read all of this and i will try to offer my 2 or 3 cents worth.

 

[bignate73]

Re: DC training

i like the program, as i said. i could see cycling it though. doing a run of that type of training then mixing up the rep scheme with 5x5 a bit or maybe some high rep work to build up your GPP for a while. Build some strength endurance and you can come back and start with higher weights and make the rep scheme. i found that it wasnt the weight, per se that was heavy but the TUT that killed me. so, build up some endurance, so you can handle a higher load initially. IMO

 

[cwick0]

Re: DC training

I love his goals, but some of the reasoning is a little screwy.

High incline smith machine press...WASTE OF MY TIME.

two problems:
1. i DONT and WONT train chest, shoulders, and tris on the same day.
2. i DONT grow on little volume.

the alternate program seems a little more feasable.

i will review the nutrition part, but for the remainder of the program i am putting into file 13 (the trash).

Sorry, didnt get throught the nutrition part before i deposited it file 13.

 

[guldukat]

Re: DC training

For sheer size, I'd rather stick to HST. Strength, Westside. DC seems to develop a happy medium. It works, no doubt, but it is rough on the joints. One thing I don't like is his example os growing 1/64 an inch per workout, adding up to 52/64 an inch gain on pectoral thickness in a year.

He then assumes that every workout, you'll be growing that 1/64 inch. Let's say, 9 sets, once every 7 days is 1/64 an inch. It's been proven that even with the case of diminishing returns, more sets does equate to more growth, so his one "all out, balls to the wall" set will not produce the same amount of "growth" as 9 sets (say, a 5x5 routine).

Hmm...I can't fully agree there, Tom. A 5x5 routine's great for growth, but keep in mind you're training more frequently under Dante's guidelines.

I'd also avoid the 1 vs. 9 sets comparison. The inroading from a DC set, whatwith the rest-pauses and static, is greater than one straight set to failure. Contrarily, not all of the 9 sets in a 5x5 are "equal," either, especially depending on where you are in a training cycle.

 

[guldukat]

Re: DC training

I love his goals, but some of the reasoning is a little screwy.

High incline smith machine press...WASTE OF MY TIME.

I wouldn't read too much into that choice, biggun. That's just an example of something Dante likes to use himself (to considerable effect, no less).

two problems:
1. i DONT and WONT train chest, shoulders, and tris on the same day.
2. i DONT grow on little volume.

I agree with 1. It's...tough. With the little volume involved it's not too bad, and the stretches help; still, you'd have to lighten up on shoulder and tri training weights initially.

As far as 2 goes, you know yourself better than I do Still, you might be surprised at your growth with DC training. It's so much more than most low volume approaches.

Another thing worth noting is the volume part of DC is a bit deceptive. Part of the beauty is that, since you're not doing a ton of work in each workout, you can train that bodypart again within 3-4 days. Also, as I reminded Tom, those rest-pauses and static holds are brutal...it's way more intense than just doing one set to momentary failure, then moving on.

the alternate program seems a little more feasable.

i will review the nutrition part, but for the remainder of the program i am putting into file 13 (the trash).

Sorry, didnt get throught the nutrition part before i deposited it file 13.

What you're doing works incredibly well for you, but I urge you to read a bit more about DC training before you make this determination. Dante has taken some already very strong, dyed-in-the-wool volume guys and turned them into believers by making them retarded strong.

For example, just recently, he started working with new IFBB pro Dave Henry.
Henry says he'd always done 9-12 sets/bodypart, and he was one strong motherfucker in the first place (one-arm DB extensions with 130! They were partials, but to even hold that shit with one arm is crazy). Dave's supposed to be much, much stronger now, and judging by his pictures he's growing at a nice pace, too.

Honestly, though, just reading Cycles For Pennies isn't enough for most guys. It's probably best to talk to DC trainers at places like Muscle Mayhem or maybe intensemuscle.com. Dante himself is quite busy, and I think already too generous with his time; but he has a good circle of friends who understand the routine and have built themselves into geniune monsters with it (especially a poster named Inhuman...he must be a gorilla passing himself off as a man).

Anyway, they're a nice bunch and never act like some in the rabid HIT crowd used to (saying "Anyone who doesn't train like we do SUCKS!" or the like). I bet they'd be happy to talk to an accomplished if skeptical lifter like you.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Re: DC training

Right, but even still, you hit bodyparts 2x a week indirectly (usually) with 5x5, and though the 9 sets aren't entirely equal, is does cause more and more stimulation.

Case and point, his point of 52/64" growth and 104/64" growth or whatever is off, and biased towards his methods.

 

[Debaser]

Re: DC training

I love his goals, but some of the reasoning is a little screwy.

High incline smith machine press...WASTE OF MY TIME.

Pound for pound, strictly talking hypertrophy (which is what this program is about), they're just as good as incline freeweight benches, if not slightly better. If your prime interest is simply size, then it's not a "waste of [your] time."

two problems:
1. i DONT and WONT train chest, shoulders, and tris on the same day.

Any particular reason why? I train my entire body in one training session. Remember that split-training was introduced by Weider as a means to promote his bodybuilders and sell magazines and supplements. It is NOT an ideal training protocol, and never was. Think about what the classic bodybuilders like Reg Park did, in the pre-steroid era, to grow. Full-body workouts, three times a week. Since they didn't have to rely on the crutch of steroids (which can make just about any program effective), I would follow something more along their methods than that of those who go through $50+ grand a year on drugs alone.

2. i DONT grow on little volume.

Again, what makes you so sure you are the magical, unique exception to what has worked for literally hundreds if not thousands of people, of all shapes and sizes, genetics, and differing gear useage? ANYONE can grow on low volume if the progressive loading happens. Don't be so quick to assume that you're somehow the one that can't.

the alternate program seems a little more feasable.

i will review the nutrition part, but for the remainder of the program i am putting into file 13 (the trash).

Sorry, didnt get throught the nutrition part before i deposited it file 13.

Again, although I admit there are flaws in his program, it's a helluva lot better than the style of routine perpetuated in the supplement catalogs of today (commonly referred to as Flex, Musclemag, etc.). THOSE ideas, which turn their nose up to science and/or logic and insist on what sounds almost "magic," are what you should be throwing away. I'm not telling you to try or not try the program. But don't be so quick to dismiss ideas simply because they're in opposition to what you're doing.

.

 

[Debaser]

Re: DC training

Damn guldukat, we must have been replying at nearly exactly the same time.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Re: DC training

Right, but even still, you hit bodyparts 2x a week indirectly (usually) with 5x5, and though the 9 sets aren't entirely equal, is does cause more and more stimulation.

Case and point, his point of 52/64" growth and 104/64" growth or whatever is off, and biased towards his methods.

i think those numbers were meant to illustrate his point not that everyone whos on DC will grow like that after each work out..plus we know no matter what sometimes you may grow over the course of a month but then settle down..you cant expect to grow X inches per workout no matter what routine you follow..

 

[Debaser]

Re: DC training

Right, but even still, you hit bodyparts 2x a week indirectly (usually) with 5x5, and though the 9 sets aren't entirely equal, is does cause more and more stimulation.

Case and point, his point of 52/64" growth and 104/64" growth or whatever is off, and biased towards his methods.

He was simply using the fractions to illustrate and compare the relative increase, he was in no way referring to actual numbers. This would be difficult to determine.

He's really not saying anything that's all that different from HST. With volume, there is a law of diminishing returns. He'd rather do that first set or two, which is where the bulk of the growth-potential lies, and hit it again as soon as possible, rather than waiting a week as in most splits.

A better usage of numbers might be this, in terms of relative comparison.

DC training session results in 3/64" of an increase in a given session. 10-set volume session results in 4/64". But since the DC is more frequent, it's easily surpassing that mark. As I said, these numbers are made up and only meant to try and clarify his point.