Does pre-exhaustion work? Is it a good alternative?

[SteelWeaver]

It seems to be generally accepted that the first exercise for each body-part should be a compound movement. This makes complete sense to me, since you can handle a lot more weight that way.

However, I have some strength problems - i.e. I don't have any - I seem to be pathetically weak for my size. And the first thing that happens on compound movements is that the weakest link fails - tris on bench and military presses, bis on rows. I've been coping with this by making all my final exercises for a part isolation movements, and just giving it every last ounce I have, but tonight, I swear the burn in my my tris on FLYES is what killed the final drop set! Is this possible? I thought my form was perfect.

So, is pre-exhaustion a good option here? Does anyone here use this technique? Does it help your strength gains in the long run? I'd love to know how long it's going to take before I can actually handle some REAL weight. Damn, my increases are SLOW! And more importantly, what about SIZE gains?

I figure that doing, say, flyes before bench is going to instantly drop my bench max, but is this going to affect size gains?

What about post-activation and compound after-shock, the techniques they use in Ironman (I know, I know, just staying up to date). Anyone used those?

Would appreciate ideas here.

 

[hookdup]

Pre-exhaustion ... never thought of that.

I'm going to be asking a lot here, but I'm going to post my current workout. Can you tell me if I'm doing it in the right order?

K, here goes:

MONDAY: CHEST / BACK

Incline Dumbbell Press
Flat Bench Dumbbell Flyes
Dumbbell pullovers

One-Arm Dumbbell bent-over rows
Bent-over barbell rows
Seated row machine

Machine Pullovers
Machine Low Back Extensions
Abs

WEDNESDAY: LEGS / BICEPS
Squats
Barbell Lunges
Lying Leg Curls
Leg extensions
Abductor Machine
Adductor Machine
Calf presses
Barbell Preacher Curls
Concentration Curls
Incline Curls
Hammer Culrs
Abs

FRIDAY: SHOULDERS-TRAPS-TRICEPS
Machine Shoulder Press
Machine Lateral Raises
Barbell Upright Rows
Dumbbell Shrugs
Lying Tricep extensions (skull crushers)
One-Dumbbell Triceps Extensions
Kickbacks
Rope Extensions
Abs


Okay, there it is .... I know the order is probably screwed up. Also, am I missing any vital exercises?

Thanks so much in advance!!!

 

[hookdup]

Sorry Spatts,

You're right on both counts ...

I didn't mean to detract from Steel's question. (Sorry Steel)
Secondly ... I know abs cannot be targeted, I just like walking out of the gym right after you've done abs and you can see that extra bit of definition ... I always catch people noticing my abs after a work out ... so call it wasting a bit of time for vanity...

Thanks so much in advance for looking into this for me. If you'd like to pm me with the details so we don't take up any more space on this thread, I don't mind.

Spatts, thanks again ... I always count on you!

 

[hookdup]

You're right again!

I'll start a new thread right now!

...still looking forward to your answer though!

 

[MS]

Pre-exhaustion is worth a try merely because it's changing your routine which will shock your body. However, compound movements target the weakest link by default. It sounds to me like you either have a problem with your technique, or that your tris are the weak link. You should have someone with a good eye watch your bench and flye technique. Are you relatively stronger on the pec dec?? Is your grip on the bar wide enough?? Can you do full body dips with your elbows tucked in?

 

[SteelWeaver]

Spatts - thanks - yeah - I know what pre-exhaustion IS, I just want to know if it WORKS - but I suppose with every technique, it works at first!

I've never tried reverse pyramiding. The reason is, I read somewhere that the muscle remembers the weight of the final set, therefore ending on lower weight, higher reps means your muscle will remember that lower weight as being the max for the next session. OK, I know I shouldn't believe everything I read, and clearly TheProject didn't believe it (!) but on a practical level, it's difficult to gauge how much weight to put on the bar if I do the heaviest lift first off.

My gym owner has this little technique where he says to do 2 or 3 sets of 8 then as many as possible on the final set. If you do more than 11, you raise the weight the next time. I did actually make some small gains on bench doing that, but I don't think they were any more spectacular than my usual gains. Maybe I'll try reverse pyramiding. Do you do it on all lifts?

MS - yes, tris are the weak link - and bis. Funny thing is - they don't have any problems growing - I think I have quite nice bis - tris are looking a bit flat lately - I'm wondering if it's because I quit dips for bench dips.

Anyway - the gym owner is a complete freak for bench - it's his absolute favourite of all time, and he's very picky about form on it, so I don't think it's a form problem. Flyes - well, I haven't had him watch, but these were inclines, and I was concentrating on getting a full stretch at the bottom, and squeezing hard at the top, which is the point at which my tris burnt the worst.

"Are you relatively stronger on the pec dec??" Don't know - I don't use it because it's supposed to give one rotator cuff problems (??? another case of believing everything I read too much??)

"Is your grip on the bar wide enough??" Yes.

"Can you do full body dips with your elbows tucked in?" Noooo!! I tried like crazy to do these a few months ago, but can only do 2 or 3 (maybe) - although I did a lot of negatives with them, which seemed to make my tris bigger. Gym owner guy says I'll be able to do dips when I can bench about 60 kilos - yeah - like 20 years from now!

I did a 6-week cycle of low reps (3-5, 5-8) a few months ago, and built up a bit more strength than usual, but it doesn't seem to translate much once you increase reps.

How can one get stronger, thus lift heavier weight, thus get bigger???? And can I expect any decent increases whilst dieting?

 

[SteelWeaver]

Oh, not at all, spatts. I hadn't thought of that - that's very considerate of you.

I don't actually have any problems with rotator cuff - but figure it's better to stay on the safe side and never develop them! That's why I don't do behind the neck presses or pull-downs either.

Lobo - no - he's not so interested in lifting a lot of weight - just loves bench. He told me from the start to keep my grip wide and elbows flared.

I think I'm gonna try declines - never done them before because my UPPER chest is bony, so I tend to concentrate on incline movements. But I've read all the posts on declines ... Maybe they'll give me a strength boost.