DL - Why the breank then no more?

[bblazer]

This has puzzled me since the beginning of time (yes I am that old).

Assuming correct form, what stops a DL right in its tracks even if the weight has broken from the floor and can be pulled to just below the knee. At that point no force on Earth can complete the movement.

Obviously, I am wrong to assume that if you have the strength to get it that far, you should have enough gas to go the distance.

B-

 

[SouthernLord]

I'm trying to figure this out too. I've got a PR weight to my knees three tries in a row without locking out. My grip's not an issue, I can rack pull ~75 pounds over this weight from my knees. I'm confused

 

[ExtraMile]

From the beginning of the pull the quads start the weight moving, and so normally the hams/glutes take over when the weight is already moving, so the faster you can explode the weight from the floor the easier is it for the hams/glutes to move it. But in a max effort pull the quads move the weight very slowly so you dont get the explosive moving start.

Kind of like when you push a child on a swing at a park or something like that. When the swing is just stationary and you stand behind and push it forwards, the swing wont go as heigh as if it was already moving and you then you walked behind it and pushed it, if that makes sense.

Thats my initial thought anyway...

Of course I may be wrong about that being the part when the hams/glutes or other muscles are strongest and begin to be used the most

 

[Big_BK]

I wonder just the opposite. Why is is do much easier from at the knees then off the floor, lol. Once i break it i can lift it.

 

[moya]

i think it is a matter of leverage and possibly coming out of form just enough to stop the pull... in my situation i think sometimes my shoulders pass too far over the bar and lose leverage... that is my best guess...

 

[SaiBoT]

i think it is a matter of leverage and possibly coming out of form just enough to stop the pull... in my situation i think sometimes my shoulders pass too far over the bar and lose leverage... that is my best guess...

I think you are right! What got you to lift the bar that far makes you lose the leverage from that point up, maybe that's why guys like Konstantinov and Bolton got used to round their upper back only instead of rounding the lower back during deads

Em also as a good point... speed deads or dynamic effort should also help with these... not that i'm an expert i still think my deads suck

 

[b fold the truth]

Could be upper back strength or form...

 

[bblazer]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to video my next session so that I can critique my from (something tells me that might be the problem - after all nobody wants to admit they aren't as strong as they think they are ).

If its not form, I think then it is back to more band work and some DL's off a platform.

B-

 

[moya]

i think its form for myself because i get stuck at the knees with pulls i should be getting... i can definately rack pull much more than off the floor, by at least 50lbs... so if im getting it going, often with pretty good momentum, it is disappointing to hit that spot, and then having wasted all that energy getting it there and trying to pull it further, my next attempt is pretty much screwed and i'd might as well deload rather than try somthing im going to miss again... which i do all too often...
...leverage is a bitch...

 

[Big_BK]

I must have seriously fucked up from then becuase i can rack pull low 700's and only pull low to mid 500's from the floor.

 

[b fold the truth]

I must have seriously fucked up from then becuase i can rack pull low 700's and only pull low to mid 500's from the floor.

Depends on where the bar is positioned for me.

A lot of my lifts are pure speed, although I'm hoping to change that. Most of the time I will get enough speed off the start of the pull that I have momentum going through...

Rack pulls right AT my knees put me in a stupid hard position.

 

[SaiBoT]

Depends on where the bar is positioned for me.

A lot of my lifts are pure speed, although I'm hoping to change that. Most of the time I will get enough speed off the start of the pull that I have momentum going through...

Rack pulls right AT my knees put me in a stupid hard position.

Yeah i also feel the rack pulls at knee awkward specially sumo style, usually i do 4-5 inches below knee.

 

[moya]

I must have seriously fucked up from then becuase i can rack pull low 700's and only pull low to mid 500's from the floor.

thats not quite the same as what i was trying to say... unless you are getting 700 off the floor and then stalling half way... of course your rack pull is almost always going to be more than your dead... but its when you get a lift half way up that you should be able to get for the second portion (as you rack pull it fairly well) and instead i believe instead of carrying on upward, somewhere slightly in the lift you may just lose a bit of leverage...
if all your lifts that break the floor make it up, i would doubt there is any flaw in your form, considering you arent doing anything dangerous like hitching etc...
...like if i can rack pull 535, and i get 495 moving off the floor with decent acceleration up to just over my knees... then all of a sudden it stops... i think what is happening is i am losing leverage at some point as i should be able to pull that top part...

 

[fortunatesun]

I don't know much about this. If it's to my knees then it's going up.

I've a hard time from the floor. I'm 1/3 the way home - failure is not an option. Focus your thoughts and will yourself to succeed.

 

[b fold the truth]

thats not quite the same as what i was trying to say... unless you are getting 700 off the floor and then stalling half way... of course your rack pull is almost always going to be more than your dead... but its when you get a lift half way up that you should be able to get for the second portion (as you rack pull it fairly well) and instead i believe instead of carrying on upward, somewhere slightly in the lift you may just lose a bit of leverage...
if all your lifts that break the floor make it up, i would doubt there is any flaw in your form, considering you arent doing anything dangerous like hitching etc...
...like if i can rack pull 535, and i get 495 moving off the floor with decent acceleration up to just over my knees... then all of a sudden it stops... i think what is happening is i am losing leverage at some point as i should be able to pull that top part...

I think that is why Louie Simmons stated something about how Rack Pulls were worthless once you get to a certain height...since a rack pull is TOTALLY different than a full pull, technique wise. Very little carry over.

 

[Big_BK]

I think that is why Louie Simmons stated something about how Rack Pulls were worthless once you get to a certain height...since a rack pull is TOTALLY different than a full pull, technique wise. Very little carry over.

so true.....

 

[SouthernLord]

Off topic a bit.....

I'm going to try snatch grip rack pulls from just below the knees next week. The EFS guys are doing these for lat/upperback hypertrophy.

 

[b fold the truth]

Off topic a bit.....

I'm going to try snatch grip rack pulls from just below the knees next week. The EFS guys are doing these for lat/upperback hypertrophy.

I've deadlifted with an actual snatch grip (hands double over and allll the way out on the bar) and it is no joke grip and upper back wise. Totally different full pull than a regular pull...so much harder.

 

[SouthernLord]

I've deadlifted with an actual snatch grip (hands double over and allll the way out on the bar) and it is no joke grip and upper back wise. Totally different full pull than a regular pull...so much harder.

I've tried them too. Very much a "total body" exercise. Even with the decrease weight being used they work the shit out for you.

I think overloading the top range of motion with the snatch grip will blow up my lats and upper back. I'm thinking like a bodybuilder here

 

[moya]

even more off topic...
are you guys using straps on your rack pulls? i know i could get more if i did... but i would like to use them to increase my grip strength so when i deadlift i will have no grip issues... or would it be more beneficial to add straps when my hands start to fail? what do you guys do?..,

 

[SouthernLord]

even more off topic...
are you guys using straps on your rack pulls? i know i could get more if i did... but i would like to use them to increase my grip strength so when i deadlift i will have no grip issues... or would it be more beneficial to add straps when my hands start to fail? what do you guys do?..,

Straps until your hands fail for racks imo.

I do not pull with an alt grip anymore. I'm good for 405 for a few with a hook grip. Then I strap up. I will never compete, so no worries for me.

 

[bblazer]

I can get a little more than that with a double overhand on an oly bar, but on a 2" axle, I can't get 200 unless its a clean.

B-

 

[SaiBoT]

I've tried them too. Very much a "total body" exercise. Even with the decrease weight being used they work the shit out for you.

I think overloading the top range of motion with the snatch grip will blow up my lats and upper back. I'm thinking like a bodybuilder here

Yes and try to do them as if you were going for a lat spread you will notice alot going on, it's a totally different feeling.