Deca mess after 11 years

[PossiBill]

Hello to all of you gentlemen

As the tittle describes i am experiencing some problems after innapropriate use of Deca Durabolin.

So i will share my story with you 1stly so i can listen some thoughts from more experienced people than me and 2ndly to prevent newcomer teenagers to Bodybuilding and AAS falling to the same mistakes.

You can always (skip that part) and get to the point

11 years from now i was at the age of 17 i started my 1st "cycle" if you can call it like this.

A friend of mine was using Deca so i got tempted from his gains...I have to mention that back then in my country we didnt have internet at homes so we were "blind" and bound to what the local pros had to say to us.

So i went to a "pro" Bodybuilder of my neighborhood and asked him for Deca.
He wroted me a "cycle" of 7 weeks of Deca and Dianabol. 400mg Deca per week splitted in 2 doses and 30mg of D-bol every day splitted again in 2 doses.

I started the cycle and the results were visible from the 1st week (Dbol is great ofc) everything was great i was getting bigger and bigger got up to 15kg by the end of the cycle no probs with erections when i was on cycle (probably Dbol acted as testosterone coz i didnt take any exogenous test.)

Then i went off cold turkey no PCT no nothing (no advice or instructions about what PCT was by the "pro" i got the juice from).

(skip that part)
The first 2 weeks after the cycle was devastating, i couldnt have any erections for the 1st week, slightly improved 2nd week i could make a half erection struggling to have sex i was emotionally wasted, and here comes the "fun" part..

(Skip that part)
After the 2nd week off i had a bike accident, broke my leg and from then i spent almost the next 2 years of my life on the Hospital and closed inside my home eating for 2 years antibiotics for my leg which was infected inside the surgery.
By the time i was home and in bed internet came broadly to my country so i got a connection at home and started searching and studying everything i could about AAS.

(skip that part)
By that time i can say the intensity of the side effects had decreased i could have sex every day but once per day morning woods ok but no sudden erections at all.My girl had to work a lot to get me going.
So the time was passing and i was finally able to go to gym again workout took some supplements but no AAS nor PCT.
I continued my life as is as i thought that my body would have stabilized again after so much time.



Now i have experienced some probs again with erections i am having a tough season at work too much stress less than 6hrs sleep per day no good nutrition nor food for the last 6 months or even more so i thought i could run a small PCT to see if i will get any better and about 3months ago i ran a 4 week Nolvadex @40 mg per day for the 1st 2 weeks and @ 20 mg per day for the rest 2 weeks.

I noticed a change in my strength also in my balls they started to feel heavier but no improvement on erections yet. Some days morning wood was there some others not.

So after that PCT i decided to wait until i am clean and go to make some tests to check my levels..
Which i received just today and i am here to post it and hear some advice :

[TABLE="width: 350"]
[TR]
[TD]Exam
[/TD]
[TD]My Results
[/TD]
[TD]Normal Range
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]FSH
[/TD]
[TD]1.36 mlU/ml
[/TD]
[TD]1.4-18.1 mlU/ml
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LH
[/TD]
[TD]5.04 mlU/ml
[/TD]
[TD]1.5-9.3 mlU/ml
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Testosterone
[/TD]
[TD]6.95 ng/ml
[/TD]
[TD]2.8-8.0 ng/ml
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Progesterone
[/TD]
[TD]0.62 ng/ml
[/TD]
[TD]0.05-0.15 ng/ml
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Prolactin
[/TD]
[TD]10.19 ng/ml
[/TD]
[TD]2.1-17.7 ng/ml
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Estradiol (E2)
[/TD]
[TD]34.37 pg/ml
[/TD]
[TD]27.1-52.2 pg/ml
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Exams taken 11:00 am.
DHEA,SHGB not ready yet ..

Now i have to say that i made the exams with the worst case scenario day before, in purpose, thinking that if my values are normal after a rough day would be a good sign..
Also i have to admit that the morning of the exams i took advantage of my morning wood with my gf just 2hrs before the exams and idk if that messed with the values..

So from what i see i can suspect that even 11 years after the use of Deca Durabolin i still have high ammounts of progesterone in my body and a confusing FSH lvl.
I never had any exams in the past so i cannot compare any results..

Sorry for the very long post i had to let it out!

Thinking about a plan how can i fix those values, any thoughts will be appreciated.

 

[stevesmi]

we can debate this thread for 20 pages

bottom line is you used steroids at a young age and fucked up your HPTA probably permanently. your FSH is evidence that your pituitary glands are not producing hormones the way it should for your age

nolvadex isn't going to fix your problems man. it will actually make your problem worse. google all the sides from guys using nolvadex and you will see they will match your complaints.

what you need to do is get a natural supplement. hcgenerate and if you can afford it hcgenerate ES. you will feel better

 

[PossiBill]

we can debate this thread for 20 pages

bottom line is you used steroids at a young age and fucked up your HPTA probably permanently. your FSH is evidence that your pituitary glands are not producing hormones the way it should for your age

nolvadex isn't going to fix your problems man. it will actually make your problem worse. google all the sides from guys using nolvadex and you will see they will match your complaints.

what you need to do is get a natural supplement. hcgenerate and if you can afford it hcgenerate ES. you will feel better

How could Nolvadex make the problem worse?
Doesnt nolvadex suposse to stimulate natural LH and FSH production?

What about LH and Testosterone itself? LH is in normal range same as testo is.

I was thinking of making a new cycle with only test but as my natural test levels are normal i dont like to mess with it again..

So from my research i am thinking that running a heavy PCT including Nolvadex, clomid for 2 months, adding something like dostinex or letro to reduce those progesterone levels because i really think thats what mess up with my clock..

What aboout real HCG before the PCT to give some boost..

Maybe sex before the bloodwork messed with FSH???

I dont want to just feel better..i want to resolve the problem and continue with my life.

Thanks for your reply though..

 

[Lev Butlerov]

The last thing you should do now is run another steroid cycle. That is definitely a no-no for you right now. If that is your idea, then you can run HCGenerate ES, and it will do something similar without messing up with your hormones even more.

And you definitely don't need to use HCG, as it can cause a lot of side effects, and it will barely give any benefits at all. Remember, it is a form of estrogen in the end of the day, and all it can do, is simulate the functions of LH and FSH, and not actually stimulate them. So it is a rather useless compound to use.

I believe that a full PCT should be the first thing you can try doing, and then act accordingly with the results of a comprehensive PCT.

 

[PossiBill]

The last thing you should do now is run another steroid cycle. That is definitely a no-no for you right now. If that is your idea, then you can run HCGenerate ES, and it will do something similar without messing up with your hormones even more.

And you definitely don't need to use HCG, as it can cause a lot of side effects, and it will barely give any benefits at all. Remember, it is a form of estrogen in the end of the day, and all it can do, is simulate the functions of LH and FSH, and not actually stimulate them. So it is a rather useless compound to use.

I believe that a full PCT should be the first thing you can try doing, and then act accordingly with the results of a comprehensive PCT.

Thanks for the reply man, thats what i believe too a heavy PCT might help since i didnt use any clomid previously and clomid stimulates the FSH better than Nolvadex..

Any thoughts about those high progesterone levels?

I was thinking adding to pct some letro or arimidex to help lowering the progesterone by lowering the total estrogens since i cant find any drug working directly in progesterone itself..dostinex is for prolactin and my prolactin levels are in range..

I was wondering also if i could run the gyno protocol combined with the PCT (adding clomid to the protocol) as i suspect a small gyno more likely like fat is stored there but i can feel a little ball just behind my nipple. : https://www.evolutionary.org/anti-gynecomastia-cure-version-3

Its 11 years passed i know, young and dumb really dumb, but now i have to take some actions to improve my life.

Thankfully my test lvl is good and my LH middle range but LH changes alot during the day..I cant understand how test and LH are ok and FSH not, i thought that if LH or FSH is low then testo itself would be low too, so i hope that clomid will make the difference...

 

[stevesmi]

How could Nolvadex make the problem worse?
Doesnt nolvadex suposse to stimulate natural LH and FSH production?

What about LH and Testosterone itself? LH is in normal range same as testo is.

I was thinking of making a new cycle with only test but as my natural test levels are normal i dont like to mess with it again..

So from my research i am thinking that running a heavy PCT including Nolvadex, clomid for 2 months, adding something like dostinex or letro to reduce those progesterone levels because i really think thats what mess up with my clock..

What aboout real HCG before the PCT to give some boost..

Maybe sex before the bloodwork messed with FSH???

I dont want to just feel better..i want to resolve the problem and continue with my life.

Thanks for your reply though..

you simply do not have an understanding how these drugs affect your HPTA so i will explain. if you want to listen to me great, if not you can continue to be stubborn and listen to the bad advice you have already been given.

nolvadex is a SERM. it blocks estrogen from reaching the pituitary glands which cause them to start producing LH and FSH, which causes a spike in testosterone levels.. that all sounds wonderful but all that is TEMPORARY. when you stop taking it you will just tank back down. so in reality you are not solving the problem, you are playing with your HPTA and yo yo'ing things. nolvadex also comes with a host of awful sides. just google all the horror stories on it. google "nolvadex killed libido" and you will see

next hcg is a horrible idea and a worse idea than nolvadex. hcg will suppress your pituitary glands cause it mimics LH in the body. all it will do is DELAY recovery further and de-sensitize your leydig cells more. it is essentially like injecting more hormones and shutting your HPTA down more.

at this point STOP PLAYING WITH YOUR BODY. just stop everything and get on exactly what i told you in my first post. and for the sake of buddha stop arguing with experts on this stuff.... you should have never touched steroids in the first place but you made the choice not to listen.

here is the dirty secret: ONLY YOUR OWN BODY CAN recover on its own. you cannot FORCE it to recover by taking a bunch of drugs and hormones. at this point running a pct and running drugs is not going to help you. that ship sailed a long fucking time ago.

I also think your libido issues are typical of your age group. guys in their 20's have way more sexual dysfunction issues than my generation did at your age. the reason has to do with electronics, porn addiction, and all the rec drugs you guys abuse (including pot and all that other crap)

 

[Zinergy]

TRT is what you need, forget about natural boosters.

Find yourself a decent endo and go from there.

 

[PossiBill]

you simply do not have an understanding how these drugs affect your HPTA so i will explain. if you want to listen to me great, if not you can continue to be stubborn and listen to the bad advice you have already been given.

nolvadex is a SERM. it blocks estrogen from reaching the pituitary glands which cause them to start producing LH and FSH, which causes a spike in testosterone levels.. that all sounds wonderful but all that is TEMPORARY. when you stop taking it you will just tank back down. so in reality you are not solving the problem, you are playing with your HPTA and yo yo'ing things. nolvadex also comes with a host of awful sides. just google all the horror stories on it. google "nolvadex killed libido" and you will see

next hcg is a horrible idea and a worse idea than nolvadex. hcg will suppress your pituitary glands cause it mimics LH in the body. all it will do is DELAY recovery further and de-sensitize your leydig cells more. it is essentially like injecting more hormones and shutting your HPTA down more.

at this point STOP PLAYING WITH YOUR BODY. just stop everything and get on exactly what i told you in my first post. and for the sake of buddha stop arguing with experts on this stuff.... you should have never touched steroids in the first place but you made the choice not to listen.

here is the dirty secret: ONLY YOUR OWN BODY CAN recover on its own. you cannot FORCE it to recover by taking a bunch of drugs and hormones. at this point running a pct and running drugs is not going to help you. that ship sailed a long fucking time ago.

I also think your libido issues are typical of your age group. guys in their 20's have way more sexual dysfunction issues than my generation did at your age. the reason has to do with electronics, porn addiction, and all the rec drugs you guys abuse (including pot and all that other crap)

You get me wrong man im not try to argue just trying to understand more otherwise i could just do what all those posts round the internet tell to..

Anyway thank you for trying to explain things up to me really apreciate your time.

You are absolutely right about my generation i bear that in mind..

Now if you can just help me understand why my test and LH levels are into normal range but FSH is not..Really thats very annoying because before the bloodwork i was thinking that if i am in a low testosterone state i could use of TRT and move on but now i cant even think of it as my T levels are fine.

Also about that progesterone levels...Its too high so normally i have to get them down..From what i read seems i cannot find a way to lower them except if i try to lower the total estrogens in the body using an AI..

What i latest read is that anecdotally Deca can mess up with neurotrasmitors, and DHN takes dominance of DHT and that might affecting ED..

I dont want to sound dissrespectfull by any means i am just looking for a solution, 11 years are LOT of time to be in a situation like this..

 

[PossiBill]

TRT is what you need, forget about natural boosters.

Find yourself a decent endo and go from there.

Thanks for your reply too mate really appreciated.

As for TRT i would go straight to it if my T levels were low but thats not the case and a TRT would inhibit both LH and FSH in presence of exogenous T..

So instead of inhibiting two hormones (from which LH is in normal range) to receive more T (which also IS in normal range) i am trying to figure out how i could stimulate my HPTA to produce more FSH to a normal range..

I am also trying to figure out how to lower that progesterone levels because its way too high from normal, though E2 and Prolactin are normal.

After years i've learned the magic our body can achieve by its own and how effective is to learn to use our own hormones instead of looking arround..

 

[stevesmi]

You get me wrong man im not try to argue just trying to understand more otherwise i could just do what all those posts round the internet tell to..

Anyway thank you for trying to explain things up to me really apreciate your time.

You are absolutely right about my generation i bear that in mind..

Now if you can just help me understand why my test and LH levels are into normal range but FSH is not..Really thats very annoying because before the bloodwork i was thinking that if i am in a low testosterone state i could use of TRT and move on but now i cant even think of it as my T levels are fine.

Also about that progesterone levels...Its too high so normally i have to get them down..From what i read seems i cannot find a way to lower them except if i try to lower the total estrogens in the body using an AI..

What i latest read is that anecdotally Deca can mess up with neurotrasmitors, and DHN takes dominance of DHT and that might affecting ED..

I dont want to sound dissrespectfull by any means i am just looking for a solution, 11 years are LOT of time to be in a situation like this..

In my experience looking at blood work FSH tends to lag behind. you do have some sort of HPTA dysfunction going on. I do not think you need TRT yet, i just think a good quality test booster will help you feel better

 

[muskate]

Thanks for your reply too mate really appreciated.

As for TRT i would go straight to it if my T levels were low but thats not the case and a TRT would inhibit both LH and FSH in presence of exogenous T..

So instead of inhibiting two hormones (from which LH is in normal range) to receive more T (which also IS in normal range) i am trying to figure out how i could stimulate my HPTA to produce more FSH to a normal range..

I am also trying to figure out how to lower that progesterone levels because its way too high from normal, though E2 and Prolactin are normal.

After years i've learned the magic our body can achieve by its own and how effective is to learn to use our own hormones instead of looking arround..

The best way to increase FSH and LH without any suppression is to use a good natural testosterone booster like HCGenerate ES from n2bm.com

Check out this article on HCGenerate ES -> https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...te-extra-strength-version-reviewed-27476.html

The product has a lot of science behind it and I think it would really help your situation.

When your testosterone levels get back to normal, your progesterone levels should bounce back to normal.

 

[PossiBill]

When your testosterone levels get back to normal, your progesterone levels should bounce back to normal.

Thanks again all of you guys for your time!

Muskate, man isn't 6.95 out of 8 a normal range T?

How can progesterone be so high when T is in normal range?

I am wondering if that Deca Dbol combo added up to progesterone back then and how to drop it down..

At the end i read up about HcGenerate looks like a nice supp. and i can add it to a strong PCT but not alone, i would like to make a more aggressive approach to my HPTA after all those years so it can finally "wake up" because i can feel it its right there but something disturbs it..

I saw on other posts arround some guys claim that after Deca dick they made a cycle of Test and a proper PCT and they got back running but that would be my last option..

Before i run anything i will post it here so i can hear your thoughts, for now i think the gyno protocol 3 is the way to go, adding up clomid & HcGenerate to stimulate HPTA, while letro will lower E2 levels hopefully draging down Progesterone together..

I read that Tamoxifen reduces the effectiveness of letro is that true? If so what would be a better combo to use arimidex with tamoxifen or letro with another SERM?

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ you still do not grasp the fact that throwing drugs at the problem does not 'wake up' your HPTA

only your own body can 'wake up' you cannot force it to with drugs and hormones. if such a thing was possible then nobody would ever need HRT for life.

PCT is pointless for you at this stage. the point of pct is to provide a soft landing after you come off steroids. people who tell you to run a pct at this stage are either badly confused or just trying to sell you drugs. be aware a lot of guys on those forums you are getting your info are sitting in cubicles in India and getting a commission for getting you to buy their hcg, nolva, etc.

this is why we are telling you to utilize NATURAL and non hormonal supplements that will make you feel good and not interfere with your body.

 

[PossiBill]

^^^ you still do not grasp the fact that throwing drugs at the problem does not 'wake up' your HPTA

only your own body can 'wake up' you cannot force it to with drugs and hormones. if such a thing was possible then nobody would ever need HRT for life.

PCT is pointless for you at this stage. the point of pct is to provide a soft landing after you come off steroids. people who tell you to run a pct at this stage are either badly confused or just trying to sell you drugs. be aware a lot of guys on those forums you are getting your info are sitting in cubicles in India and getting a commission for getting you to buy their hcg, nolva, etc.

this is why we are telling you to utilize NATURAL and non hormonal supplements that will make you feel good and not interfere with your body.

Point taken.
Thank you very much stevesmi and all you guys here, i will focus on making my routine better, at the end i need to chill a bit, too much stress for the last months..

 

[Zinergy]

How could Nolvadex make the problem worse?
Doesnt nolvadex suposse to stimulate natural LH and FSH production?

No it actually acts as LH and FSH further suppressing your LH and FSH.

 

[MasonicBodybuilder]

Honestly I would just stop taking any drugs including SERMs. After 11 years the deca is well and gone from your system so whatever damage was done is done. There is no way to "kick start" HPTA. At this point it is what it is but remember that libido can be affected by a lot of factors. If you have a good libido and just some ED concerns why not just ask your doctor about Cialis or Viagra? That can help in that area at least. I would book an appointment with an endo to get that progesterone looked at though.

 

[Deadp00l]

Hey how are you doing, WOW after 11 years and Deca is still messing with you, that scares the sh*t out of me since I am also recovering from a Deca/Sus cycle.

Can you please tell me the symptoms your experiencing ?

 

[Deadp00l]

Hey [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]stevesmi, [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Can you please help me bro ?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I took my first cycle which was a sus/deca cycle about a year ago (last May/March), I was a noob and still am noob. I only took the cycle cause I had a laburm tear in my shoulder and wanted to return to training ASAP ! worst decision ever but a great life lesson i guess....[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anyways fast forward I've been experiencing all stuff of f*cked up sexual [/FONT]dysfunctional for the past 7 months, firstly it feels as my dicks not getting hard as it should, secondly the last 7 months ive nearly PE every single time ive had sex with my girl (who has now left me now after 8 years .. ) < I don't know if this correlated with me masturbating too much to reach climax fast ! recently I have had 0 libido ! like legit zero this hoty was talking to me today I had zero interest I don't know if this has to do with my break up causes its kinda fucked me up mentally.. and i cant even remember the last time I had a random boner. Do you guys even get them anymore ? like last week i was thinking about sex it got me like mildy hard..

Morning woods are a hit and miss. I keep having dreams that im so horny I am gonna bust ?

I am 23 btw i took the cycle when I was 22..

Here are my bloods bro everything came back "normal".

FSH 8.9 IU/L (1.5-9.7)
LH 5.2 IU/L (1.8-9.2)
Prolactin 150 mIU/L (90-400)
Oestradiol 80 pmol/L (<160)
Test 16.6 nmol/L (12 - 31.9)
SHBG 30 nmol/L (17-56)
FreeTest 366 pmol/L (260-740)
TSH 1.68 Mu/L (0.5-5.5)
FT4 16.4 pmol/L
FT3 5.2 pmol/L

HCT 0.52 H (0.39-0.51) < I'm assuming the Deca is still in my system ??

anyways mans I wanted to ask you if I fucked myself up FOREVER or if you reckon I recover and any advice that might help me...

I don't really wanna throw any drugs at my HPTA, I am currently just trying to be healthy and taking testojack 200 in hopes that over the months I will recover.. but I don't man this has fucked with me mentally pretty hard. I keep thinking my girl left cause of the PE problems, fuck i just wanna feel normal what ever that is..

I was thinking of taking some cabergoline at a mild dose to help with the libido ? but my prolactin is not elevated

Please man help us out.


PS sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ one thing you didn't test is DHT levels in your body

when you run nandrolone it binds to DHT receptors. DHT is our sex hormone. all those problems you are having is related to that nandrolone messing with your DHT

this is why it is really a dumb idea to use DHT blocker drugs like fina or duta (trannies use those btw).

the way to prevent this problem in the first place is using proviron on cycle. proviron is a DHT derivative.

i wouldn't use proviron now, but what you can do is use something that binds well to SHBG, to free up more free test, and to increase DHT that way. the more free test you have the more DHT gets metabolized. so get yourself a bottle of hcgenerate. 2 of its ingredients bind very well to SHBG, thus increasing DHT.. you will feel better.

 

[Deadp00l]

Thanks for the replay man your a legend!

I defs will get my DHT levels checked ASAP!

I'm having trouble locating a trustworthy source for HCGenerate in AU but i'll defs work on it....

Your reckon if I eat right train hard over the couple months my DHT levels will rise ??

Got any other sups that would recommend me taking ?? So I can defs recover from this bullsh*t ? ?

Thanks again

 

[Lev Butlerov]

Thanks for the replay man your a legend!

I defs will get my DHT levels checked ASAP!

I'm having trouble locating a trustworthy source for HCGenerate in AU but i'll defs work on it....

Your reckon if I eat right train hard over the couple months my DHT levels will rise ??

Got any other sups that would recommend me taking ?? So I can defs recover from this bullsh*t ? ?

Thanks again

You can get HCGenerate from N2bM and their amazon shop - they deliver internationally, so there should be no problems with the delivery to AUS.

 

[stevesmi]

as lev said.. n2bm ships to Australia.. you can also go on amazon and you will find hcgenerate too being sold and they def ship to australia

 

[Deadp00l]

as lev said.. n2bm ships to Australia.. you can also go on amazon and you will find hcgenerate too being sold and they def ship to australia

Presay that I don't get some Hcgenerate you guys reackon I'll recover ?

 

[MasonicBodybuilder]

The HCGenerate will definitely help you to feel better but as mentioned, it is your body that has to recover on its own.

 

[Deadp00l]

The HCGenerate will definitely help you to feel better but as mentioned, it is your body that has to recover on its own.

Thanks bro I'll look into getting some Hcgenerate once I get paid sh*t isn't cheap..... Man I didn't have PE after PCT I was alright I felt libdo was abit down but I could always get it up so fuck I don't know what's wrong .. hopefully I'm not permanently fucked read heaps of shit about people never recovering from deca...

 

[muskate]

Your body will most likely recover on it's own but a good natural testosterone booster like HCGenerate will certain make the process occur much faster.

You get what you pay for with most things in life.