Well, well... If the 300 lb lifter has a partially severed spine and a broken knee I'd guess that the 700 pound deadlifter would have the advantage of not getting hurt...even IF he magically had some sort of pelvic tilt. Wait...Anthrax NEVER mentioned anything about a pelvic tilt. What were you doing throwing something like THAT in there on his thread...when it had nothing to do with him but was OBVIOUSLY an attack on me??? Seriously...
Well I'm not sure if you meant to but the first part of your statement only served to validate my point even more, which was: the amount they can deadlift doesn't always correlate with the condition of their back and how safely they can perform the lift.
Did I say he had a pelvic tilt? Nope. I was using that as an example of why a person who deadlifts more doesn't mean they're at more or less risk than someone who deadlifts less--it all depends on other factors, like their posture. But I wouldn't doubt that he does have one, given that a huge percentage of the public does. Weightlifters just notice the effects more because they're trying to move heavy weight with postural dysfunctions present.
Attack on you? Where the fuck did you get that from? Just because I disagreed with your point about deadlifting safely (not to mention offering a pretty clear-cut counterexample) doesn't constitute an attack. You never seem to figure this out, no matter what the argument. You just see everything as personal attacks against you.
Really? Did you miss the part where I suggested all this:
"What do I do for lower back "muscle" soreness? I stretch, use a little icy hot, use my e-stim machine, active recovery work with bands, reverse hypers, etc..."
No, I didn't miss it. That's why I said "much" instead of "at all" The rest of your post was talking about your numbers and thick back.
I guess it would just be much easier to take every chance possible to lower yourself (or is that called condescending) to a level of taking cheap shots.
My solution is "lift more, get stronger"??? Where the heck did you read this? I don't think that I EVER said that anywhere...EVER. Sounds like you made up a good one here.
From every account I've read, you seem to try and lift through discomfort rather than trying to correct the underlying cause of it (which is often, again, posture).
What I'm doing doesn't seem to be working very well for me? In the same paragraph where YOU say that I am bragging about how "big and strong" that I am you also say that what I"m doing is NOT working well for me. Interesting how flawed this paragraph really is. Sounds nice to say "Quit bragging about how really big and really strong that you are...ohh, by the way, what you are doing isn't working for you either...let me give you some of my advice and insults."
The only flaw is that you misunderstood what I was saying, even though it was clearly laid out. It was obvious I was talking about how well your efforts to resolve your pain were working, and even tied it into a quote. I don't even know how you misinterpreted this.
Yes? And? You find issues with the fact that I work every day to correct any sort of problems that I may have? Seriously...is that your problem?
No, I don't. I have issues with the fact that you have trouble dealing with opposing viewpoints without taking them personally.
Any idea why my knuckles hurt? Could it possibly be from all the grip work I had done that week? Nooooo.....it would be too easy to think that way, huh?
Any idea why I had the hip pain? Couldn't have possibly been because I was having to squat in a strange position just to fit into the squat rack at the tiny little gym down the street...could it have been??? Naaa...way too easy.
Any idea why my bicep tendons hurt? Couldn't have been from the really thin bars and the really close grip I had to take on the bar just to be able to squat...could it? Naaa...it isn't like I pointed that out either.
I'm sure there are a ton of other examples, but besides, why would you lift in a position that feels unnatural? And why would that make your bicep tendons hurt? Unless, of course, your shoulders hinge forward which tends to place your elbows in a compromised position.
Hurt my back picking up a shirt? Strange...you failed to even read my explaination to that further on in that thread...or did you just decide to stop reading after I gave an explaination? Too easy for you to do...
You felt a pop in your spine that hurt for 12-24 hours? FYI, that's not normal. Just because you weren't carted off to the E.R. doesn't mean that you shouldn't take notice of things like that. Pain is a signal.
My hamstring? Man...you haven't a clue. I've addressed this issue with you before...and you don't even reply!!!!! Wait...you point out a hamstring tear as being an example...then the next sentence begins with you know that injuries happen but that they are preventable? Did you not read where I said that it was possible that I was greatly dehydrated? Nooo...I'm sure you failed to read that...let's just go blind to things and use them when they are convienent.
Yes, dehydration can influence matters, but so can muscle imbalance, which is far more likely. By the way, you said "slight dehydration." Now you're saying "greatly dehydrated."
Yes, I can deadlift 700...with ease. Can you? Seriously...can you? Can you deadlift 600? How about 500? Do you really have ANY clue what it is like to squat, bench press, or deadlift LARGE numbers and what it does to your body? Do you?
Yes. I don't post my numbers, because they're irrelevent to discussion. They're nothing to scoff at, though. Funny, I got injured far more in my early weightlifting career, where I had a substantial anterior pelvic tilt and shoulders that rounded forward. Even though I was lifting far less weight. Interesting, huh?
My good theory? I'll post it again so you can read it again...
"In good theory...when an 700 pound deadlifter picks up a 200 pound object he should have a much less chance of getting injured than a 300 pound deadlifter. The lower back should be trained in a manner in which it is commonly used...in ALL directions and in ALL motions. This is especially true if one is an athlete."
Just curious if you see the words: theory, should, much less chance. Did you see those? Hmmm...interesting. All words seem to go a long with the principles of no absolutes and I never said a word about someone being injured. YOU did though. Why? Once again...if you want to throw in all the "if's" and "buts" you can go on for days. Heck...if the 700 pound deadlifter goes to pick up the 200 pound object and trips over a rock, steps on a knife, falls down, and breaks his neck...the 300 pound deadlifter should for sure have a much greater chance of picking up the 200 pound object without injury. Of course...this is with an understanding that he doens't do the exact same thing that the 700 pound deadlifter does.
You just don't get it. First of all, yes you said it was a theory. And I simply pointed out the flaws in your theory. Glad to see you take criticism so well 
And the deadlifters can lift the EXACT SAME WAY, but the deadlifter with the muscle imbalances and hip dysfunction will have a greater chance of being injured. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.
-----------------------------
Here...I'll post some other replies that I've made to you that you NEVER replied to...that explained a lot!!!
"I train my core A LOT, hard and heavy. It is used to using heavy weights from all directions. My erectors are used to not only picking up heavy weights...but walking/running with them. I train my abs, obliques, erectors, etc...for this.
Make sure that if your form breaks in any way...your body is TRAINED to do so.
I'd suggest this for anyone...back rounding or not.
With my torn hamstring...it tore while doing sumo pulls, back tightly arched. Could have been a million reasons why it took place. One of the biggest is probably slight dehydration...but NOBODY knows why it pulled...not even Dabaser.
With me "hurting my back picking up a shirt" the other day...I simply bent over to pick up a shirt from the floor and felt a pop in my lower spine. Within 24 hours I was fine. In less than 12 hours...I was squatting over 500 for reps and pulled over 600...all raw. One person's definition of hurt may be different from others.
I do have lots of injuries. Name me a big athlete who doesn't?
Steve Kirit, best strongman in the US, has LOTS of them. If you play in this sport you WILL have lots of injuries. That...is a FACT. People have no clue what the body feels like after training for Strongman till they do it...intensely week in and week out.
Build your body to be strong in ALL areas. If you are going to round your back..train it to sustain strains in this manner. The entire body should be trained this way...IMO. Prevent serious injury...prehab.
Remember...there are two ways to do things:
1) The BEST way.
2) The way that YOU do it the best."
You train your core "hard and heavy", but that won't change the fact that you have chronically tight hip flexors and quadratus lumborum...do you train your TVA and/or other muscles of the abdominal wall or any of the other less superficial muscles?
Like I said before, just because your form was good, if you have muscle imbalances it doesn't matter, and that tear can still happen. Sure you may get lots of injuries, and so may other strongmen. But like I said, many are preventable, you're just too stubborn to listen to how and why. I've listed books on the subject, and websites. But I'll bet your hips are exactly where they were a year ago, if not WORSE than before. Your lumbar spine continues to compress the discs, and if one ruptures or something else happens you'll wonder why it happened "out of nowhere."
That really SHOULD clear up a lot...if you can possibly understand it.
It's pretty easy to understand what you're saying. But that doesn't mean I won't disagree.
Now...let's have some discussion about something else that you also point out here...the though about how size and strength has no bearing on the knowledge that one might have.
1) I've come from being smaller than you to being bigger than you. There is a good chance that I know a thing or two...especially when it comes to my sport and strength training. My ways might not be the best for everyone (they aren't) but if you are looking to take advice...taking it from someone who has been in you shoes and beyond is at least a decent source of information.
I never said you don't know a thing or two about strength training. But you refuse to entertain the notion that I might know "a thing or two" about musculoskeletal pain and postural dysfunction. Been in your shoes? I've had feet problems, knee problems, hip problems, low back problems, shoulder and neck problems. If it's a joint I've had pain there. But you know what? I don't have ANY of it anymore.
2) You seem to pick and choose your arguements quietly when bashing or supporting those with "superior genetics". I've seen you many times say that you shouldn't look at the training of top level bodybuilders or athletes because they have such good genetics and use lots of drugs. Over on IT I see you posted this on a thread about Ronnie Coleman...someone who is at the top of Bodybuilding, has good genetics, and uses lots of drugs:
Hmmm... I suggest that one train intensely with squats and deadlifts as well as with other hard core compound exercises and you come here to attack me. You also point out here how Ronnie Coleman (big and strong) does squats and deadlifts with "brutal poundages".
When did I attack you for telling people to squat and deadlift? Enlighten me.
Then...we can look at this post that you made:
Interesting in the contrast in statements...
Why do you think that those statements conflict? They don't at all! One post is talking about how people try to train like the pros, just without the hard work. The other one is saying that people pay too much attention to how pros specifically train anyway, when all that matters is that they're lifting more and more, eating more and more, and using more and more drugs.
You ask me why I talk about my numbers and my size? I mention them because someone might want to do something similar to what I do and might get a few ideas from what I'm saying. They may look at themselves ans think "I'd like to be that size yet a good athlete too and decently strong" and I may possibly be able to help them. It isn't a bad thing. For instance...if someone was looking to be a bodybuilder...I"m not the guy to talk to..Needsize is. With this line of thought...I'm assuming that Anthrax would like to be both bigger and stronger (since you say that one needs to get stronger to get bigger in the quote above about Ronnie) so maybe he might like to read from my perspective. Maybe, to have a back "like" mine...he might want to push the numbers like I do...just maybe. Maybe not.
This WASN'T A POST ASKING HOW TO GET BIGGER AND STRONGER. IT WAS A POST ABOUT HIM ASKING ABOUT LOW BACK PAIN.
Do I feel superior? No...not to anyone. I know that there are much bigger and much stronger people out there and I seek their advice daily. Do YOU feel like you are superior to other people? I'll reflect on a post of yours here on Elite:
Since you are "flawless" and people fail to recognize your "greatness"...when should we all start bowing down to you? For what reason do you seem to feel so superior to others?
This is retarded. You obviously don't understand my sense of humor. Not my problem.
You know..I was really hoping that you would come on here and reply to Anthrax because I really believed that you could help him with your knowledge about posture, stretching, etc...but you first had to take a cheap shot AT ME. Why did you have to do this?
Do you realize how fucking irritating this is? How you think every single post I respond to of yours is an attack or cheap shot? I can't disagree? I can't have an opposing viewpoint? THIS IS A FUCKING DISCUSSION BOARD. SO FUCKING "DISCUSS."
If I didn't know that you readlly did exist and that good friends of mine have actually seen you...I'd believe that you were a complete troll. You have a lot of knowledge but you can't seem to get past something in your life that makes you so hateful towards those who are bigger and stronger than you are. Why is this?
For the last time, I'm not hateful. If I were, then why the hell is a majority of my life about to be devoted to helping athletes? Being hateful has nothing to do with countering a view you disagree with.
On yet another note...if you wish to continue this obscenity...feel free. No skin off of my back. If you wish to at least try and work something out...I'll call (even international) or I am trying to be back in the US for Christmas with my family. Make an effort, or not, your choice.
Not sure what else to say. You don't seem to be able to separate the man from the argument. There isn't much I can do to remedy this, it's something you have to realize on your own.
B True
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