Dangerous excercises for your 'Cuffs'

[DrBones]

Hey guys,
I don't have the best rotator cuffs in the world and have had ban impingement problems in the past... I was wondering if you guys could help me toss together a list of excercises to avoid which would cause more potential negative rotator cuff problems than good results.
Thanks
Ryan

 

[ZZuluZ]

Behind the neck preses for most people.

-Zulu

 

[lemur]

bench press done bodybuilder style.

any sort of pressing movement done on a fixed plane (machines, smith)

as ZZuluZ mentioned, behind the neck presses.

apparently flyes (especially those done on a fixed plane) are bad, I don't get irritation from them.

front raises hurt mine a bit, dunno if it's just me.

i'll post more as i think of them.

 

[ZZuluZ]

"bench press done bodybuilder style.
"

Explain......

-Zulu

 

[makedah]

I've also read that the following are bad for folks with rotator cuff problems:

upright rows
military presses
dips

 

[barbell265]

Like they said...

I would agree that the two worst are front raises, they kill my shoulders, and ANYTHING behind the neck. I have a good bro' in Mass who owned "The Muscle Mill", out of Fitchburg and he had a couple of New England Patriots players who lifted there. They told him one day that if their trainers/therapist, whatever, caught them doing anything behind the neck they would be fined $5,000 on the spot!!

Take that for what it's worth...

 

[CytoMel]

Bench dips or those dips that people do with their hands on a bench behind their back are SHOULDER DESTROYERS and yet I see small people doing them at the commercial gym all the time and they woder why they have bad shoulders.

 

[b fold the truth]

Nothing is dangerous (within reason) if done properly and you properly train your body to do it.

B True

 

[ZZuluZ]

"Nothing is dangerous (within reason) if done properly and you properly train your body to do it."

PRECISELY. To say, without qualification that certain exercises are 100% bad isn't justified. Some exercises are dangerous in most people. But if you've achieved the flexibility [and other characteristics] then there's likely no problem with the movement.

-Zulu

 

[makedah]

B fold and ZZ,

Clearly, some people can get away with moves that other people cannot. Personally, I do not see OHPs in my future. But do you really think that ALL moves are safe? I find that hard to believe so I'd love to hear what you have to say about it.

Can't the 'correct' form of a move threaten the integrity of joints, discs or connective tissue? That doesn't mean that someone is guaranteed injury from doing it, but the exercise could increase the likelihood of injury and therefore may be particularly troublesome for someone who has a history of problems in that body part. Aren't there some exercises (either 'tried and true' or novel) that are inherently riskier than others? I'm thinking here of what I've read about leg extensions as well as several of these shoulder moves.

 

[b fold the truth]

makedah: I believe that a lot of people use the statement "that exercise is too dangerous" or "I just can't do those anymore because of a ***** injury", etc... I think that it is mostly a load of crap excuse not to do some exercises...OR...they are blaming the exercise instead of their bad form.

I did behind the neck presses for years (when I had a place to do them) and grew like a freaking weed from them. Never had any shoulder problems (because I did them under control and trained my rotator cuffs always).

If there are exercises which put YOUR body into a strain or hurt YOU, then do them more intelligently. Use lighter weights, not to failure (or anywhere near), improve your form, and increase the stability of the problem joint.

Find a way...not an excuse.

B True

 

[DrBones]

Thanks for all the great info everyone!
Keep it coming
Thanks
Ryan

 

[makedah]

That's clearer. Thanks B Fold!

 

[onemind]

You realy should do no behind the neck exercise like pull downs or presses. Use a machine for shoulder presses. Also incline skull crushers are realy bad. When you bench with a barbell don't let your elbows go past paralell with your back. Those I think are the major ones to avoid but I say any exercise you feel pain in that joint discontinue. Bfold may be right about a few of his opinions but the fact is that once you have a problem you need to stop doing certain things like the exercises I just listed and yes I speak from experience I had bicep tendonitous but have fully recoverd but will not do any of the exercises I listed above.

 

[ZZuluZ]

I agree completely with Bfold.

NO exercise is intriniscally dangerous. It all depends on technique, individuality and a myriad of other factors.

-Zulu

 

[makedah]

This is the problem I have with the claim that no exercise is inherently dangerous.

I or some other person could come up with a whole slew of exercises, either with no knowledge of how the body works or with flawed knowledge. Those exercises -- even if they catch on -- could be dangerous, couldn't they? And if that's so, couldn't that apply to some of the exercises that are popular today?

 

[b fold the truth]

"Nothing is dangerous (within reason) if done properly and you properly train your body to do it."

Just in case anyone missed what I said in my first post...

onemind: Nothing behind the head? Machines for shoulders? Never go deep on bench presses? You must be kidding!!! I guess if you don't want to get big either...it MIGHT work. Train smart...with caution...but you can't be afraid of everything in the gym.

makedah: If the body bends a certain way...it is not dangerous. If you go out of control on your new exercise, use too much weight without joint and body preperation, and become too "jerky" with the movement...it can be and probably will be bad for your body. Remember...train your body to handle all kinds of stressors...and increase slowly.

Just look at some of the events that I do...most bodybuilders and trainers think that you should do everything with a straight back. How practical is that??? On the football field you don't have a straight back....it is rounded. We do the stones with a rounded back, tire flilp and conan's wheel with a rounded back...and most elderly people hurt their back when it is rounded and they are bent over... Why don't we spend more time training our back in a rounded fashion...strengthening it at it's weakest point(s).

B True

 

[lemur]

ZZuluZ, all the things I've listed are not set in stone, nor are they from personal experience, so I can't really say. I can say, however, that barbell bench seems to irritate my cuffs during the lower portion of the movement. Whether or not this is caused by the movement itself or merely irritated by it I don't know, so I don't have a straight answer for you. I may be entirely wrong.

 

[ZZuluZ]

Makedah, how does that contest what I've been saying?

-Zulu

 

[onemind]

"Nothing is dangerous (within reason) if done properly and you properly train your body to do it."

Just in case anyone missed what I said in my first post...

onemind: Nothing behind the head? Machines for shoulders? Never go deep on bench presses? You must be kidding!!! I guess if you don't want to get big either...it MIGHT work. Train smart...with caution...but you can't be afraid of everything in the gym.

makedah: If the body bends a certain way...it is not dangerous. If you go out of control on your new exercise, use too much weight without joint and body preperation, and become too "jerky" with the movement...it can be and probably will be bad for your body. Remember...train your body to handle all kinds of stressors...and increase slowly.

Just look at some of the events that I do...most bodybuilders and trainers think that you should do everything with a straight back. How practical is that??? On the football field you don't have a straight back....it is rounded. We do the stones with a rounded back, tire flilp and conan's wheel with a rounded back...and most elderly people hurt their back when it is rounded and they are bent over... Why don't we spend more time training our back in a rounded fashion...strengthening it at it's weakest point(s).

B True

NO I am not kidding Bfold. I didn't know you had a PHD because the doctors who gave me these guidelines sure did. You can get big useing the guidelines I posted I am liveing proof. It has nothing to do with being afraid trust me I have been training on and off for 14 years and I am not afraid of any exercise but like I said I had impengment problems and I got bicep tendonitous from it and theguidelines I posted are the best ways to avoid tendonitous. You post like you the all knowing Bfold and guess what your not all knowing.

 

[b fold the truth]

I am not a phd and your doctors are probably not strength athletes either.

Training on and off for 14 years? Great...

You stated what you did about not doing anything behind the neck and doing machines for shoulders...like it was as good as gold. Your opinion.

Your guidelines are the best to avoid tendonitis? I have had bicep tendonitis before...strengthen, work around, overcome.

Never said I was all knowing...I just know what I know from experience.

Re-read what I have posted on this thread. I said nothing attacking you directly...just stated that your ideas are not the ones that I would suggest to people. Anyone who does "nothing" behind the neck, uses machines for shoulders, and doesn't go deep on the bench press...needs to work on a lot of other things or rethink their goals.

B True

 

[ZZuluZ]

The doctors told YOU this. It's not a recommendation for EVERYBODY. Or at least it shouldn't be.

Pressing only with machines?? You've got to be kidding me.

-Zulu

 

[onemind]

Like I said it was not just my opinion but the doctors instructions. As for the part of getting stronger an overcoming your right I did it myself but that was not the ?. He asked what exercises not to do not how to fix tendonitous. Zulu man I did not say that its for everyone but said that its good for people with cuff problems and if you remember I said if your joint hurts when you do an exercise to discontinue it man don't know where you came up with that one. Also Bfold I don't remember this post haveing to do anything with being a strength athelete personaly I am a bodybuilder and there are plenty of ways to get big with the limitations I posted. For example I will never go all the way to my chest again on a barbell bench but I can go all the way down with dumbells and my shoulders have grown quit well from hammer strength presses and other various machines.

 

[b fold the truth]

Don't take any of my posts wrong. I still believe that anyone can grow from simple exercises, lots of hard work, and full range motions. If anyone has a crippling (or close to) problem that keeps them from doing an exercise...I understand. Not touching your chest on the bench press...I think that you are way off. Very way off... Machines...very way off again.

Most PhD's are skinny guys who have never done any kind of serious training in their entire lifes. Once again...they learned from a book and not from experience.

If your shoulders hurt...do everything that you possibly can to strengthen it within their limits. Push those limits till those limits expand to "full strength" once again.

We are all strength athletes in one manner or another and to one degree or another. Progressive Resistance Training is bodybuilding.

If you have tendonitis, especially in the bicep area, you can do several things to help improve it.
Massage it frequently, several times a day
Ibuprofen, 600mg 3x a day for 14 days straight
Orudis KT, 3 a day for 3 days, 2 a day for 2 days, 1 a day for 1 day or as needed
Icy Hot the entire area before you train
Icy after you train and several times a day
Light Band work
Heat several times a day
Find a way to keep your wrist straight when you sleep
Work on preventitive measures to keep it from coming back

B True