Cutting and building in keto

[ddawg0169]

Hey guys,
First timer here with some decent knowledge and an equal amount of confusion. Simple put, my goal is to cut and if possible, even gain a bit of muscle.

Me
6 feet
190 lbs
body fat, not sure

So for the past 10 days, I've gone very keto. Carbs under 30g a day, with 65% fat, 30% protein. And this is with around 2200 calories a day. Now one thing I'm unsure of is this: From my understanding, the fundamentals of losing weight are cutting calories. But say you keep your calories the same and are in keto, you'll still lose fat because that's the primary energy source being used, right?

Now, if I cut 500 calories and still stay in keto, I should lose a bit more, right?

Ok, if that's right, then here's another question. In order to prevent my body from eating its muscles, I've started working out 4 days a week (chest on mon, back on tues, shoulders on wed, bi/tri on thur). I keep it light (20-30 min and don't go to fail) because I don't want my body to want serious amounts of protein. I'm also doing 2-3 days of light jogging (30min).

So I guess my question is, am I doing this right in order to cut and keep muscle. If I'm barely consuming any carbs, and I'm sending anabolic messages to my muscles (through working out), is that cool? Should I be shuttling the protein in with any glucose? If I don't shuttle protein into my muscles with glucose, will some of that protein just bypass my muscles and get turned into glucose which will then get turned into fat?

Any help would be mucho appreciated.

D

 

[silverskyline]

Bump, I'm not great with the cuting but I'll see if no one else posts up since I'm a little busy and if not I'll see what I can do to help

 

[silverskyline]

I thing your carbs are way way low! I was just reviewing an artice on it stating that for a male you should be taking in 175-225 on a low day and 350-400 on a high day. How are your energy levels with 30 grams?

Stack your carbs around your work outs on your low days so you have the glycogen uptake for protein systhesis and energy to utalize for lifts.

If you want to keep your LBM you will need more carbs even on your low days.

Get your cardio in but I would personally do it either in the ams and lift at night or right after your lift session but not for a long duration however ever high intensity that is how you get the fat off and save time to get home and have that ever so necessary shake!

That help at all?

 

[GUARDIAN]

building lbm and cutting fat at the same time isnt easy but feasible with keto. i have used it a few times to do it. now i just seperate the two goals. i am either building muscle or cutting fat while maintaining what i have. you goal will be to get your body to burn bodyfat stores for energy and use the protein for muscle.

i like your low carbs. your fat is a little too high imo. switch your protein and fat percentages around. 500 cal deficiency is plenty. did u calculate your BMR?

get some keto strips from the pharmacy.

you should have some carbs in the morning and some pwo in the form of waxy maize. this will probably put your total closer to 100g of carbs.

increase the cardio to 5-7X ew at 30-45 of low to moderate intensity

 

[silverskyline]

Hahaha wow I was way off, go with 8's plan he knows better. I just shot for somethin cause your thread looked limp

building lbm and cutting fat at the same time isnt easy but feasible with keto. i have used it a few times to do it. now i just seperate the two goals. i am either building muscle or cutting fat while maintaining what i have. you goal will be to get your body to burn bodyfat stores for energy and use the protein for muscle.

i like your low carbs. your fat is a little too high imo. switch your protein and fat percentages around. 500 cal deficiency is plenty. did u calculate your BMR?

get some keto strips from the pharmacy.

you should have some carbs in the morning and some pwo in the form of waxy maize. this will probably put your total closer to 100g of carbs.

increase the cardio to 5-7X ew at 30-45 of low to moderate intensity

 

[GUARDIAN]

Hahaha wow I was way off, go with 8's plan he knows better. I just shot for somethin cause your thread looked limp

u r fine in general about the carbs but that is just not the level needed for ketosis.

 

[silverskyline]

u r fine in general about the carbs but that is just not the level needed for ketosis.

Awh I see.

I feel better now

 

[ddawg0169]

I thing your carbs are way way low! I was just reviewing an artice on it stating that for a male you should be taking in 175-225 on a low day and 350-400 on a high day. How are your energy levels with 30 grams?

energy levels are good, surprisingly

If you want to keep your LBM you will need more carbs even on your low days.

But why man, why?! Is it purely to get aminos into my muscles?

Get your cardio in but I would personally do it either in the ams and lift at night or right after your lift session but not for a long duration however ever high intensity that is how you get the fat off and save time to get home and have that ever so necessary shake!

I'm not drinking shakes. Should I be? I get all my protein from fish, chicken, pastrami, pork, cheese, peanut butter, and eggs.

That help at all?

definitely.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

YES you need shakes, you only really need them POST WORKOUT. At least 60g protein from WHEY ISOLATE, right after taking in some WAZY MAIZE. This is SUPER FAST ABSORBING into the muscles so they get the protein they need to grow RIGHT after your workout.

8 always has the answers quicker than I do....DAMN IT!

-Legacy

 

[ddawg0169]

i like your low carbs. your fat is a little too high imo. switch your protein and fat percentages around. 500 cal deficiency is plenty. did u calculate your BMR?

My BMR is 2850. I guess that means if I'm working out and jogging (2850*1.3 = 3750) and I don't want to slow my metabolism, I should be consuming 3250, right?

you should have some carbs in the morning and some pwo in the form of waxy maize. this will probably put your total closer to 100g of carbs.

Again, are the carbs to ensure I get aminos to my muscles? What do you think would be happening biologically if I didn't have carbs?

I like your low carbs. your fat is a little too high imo. switch your protein and fat percentages around.

Also, as far switching to 65% protein and 30% fat (and not the other way like I'm at now), that would put me at around 500g of protein (if I go to 3250 calories). That isn't too much?

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Switch it to about 55% protein and 40% fat or so.

-Legacy

 

[ddawg0169]

YES you need shakes, you only really need them POST WORKOUT. At least 60g protein from WHEY ISOLATE, right after taking in some WAZY MAIZE. This is SUPER FAST ABSORBING into the muscles so they get the protein they need to grow RIGHT after your workout.

8 always has the answers quicker than I do....DAMN IT!

-Legacy

Should I do about a 1:1 on whey isolate and WMS? Whey isolate gives me all my BCAAs, right?

D

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Yes BCAAs.

Its 2 scoops of WM which is about 70g carbs and as long as you are taking in more than 50g protein I think youre fine. Drink the WM mixed with some crystal light RIGHT after your workout, wait about 10mins then have your shake!

-Legacy

 

[GUARDIAN]

Yes BCAAs.

Its 2 scoops of WM which is about 70g carbs and as long as you are taking in more than 50g protein I think youre fine. Drink the WM mixed with some crystal light RIGHT after your workout, wait about 10mins then have your shake!

-Legacy

+1 though i would wait 20 minutes

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Lets compromise....15 mins :-D

-Legacy

 

[ddawg0169]

Compromise is a beautiful thing. But even more beautiful, is knowing what happens if I don't take carbs post workout Is it that the aminos won't all go into my muscles? What happens to those buggers then?

D

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

The carbs open up the pathways and shuttle the protein directly into the muscles. It make ssure that you MAXIMIZE your protein intake. What is the point of eating all of the protein if you arent using it all to repair and build more muscle? If you dont have the carbs, the protein is digested slower and you arent getting it all into the muscles. Thats the BASIC breakdown.

-Legacy

 

[ddawg0169]

And in the most basic sense, if you eat too much protein, what happens to it? Doesn't it get turned into fat?

D

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

No...You use the "bathroom" a little bit more :-D

-Legacy

 

[Sim882]

Too much protein converts to glucose, which can convert to fat, but 30 % of energy is lost in process

 

[GUARDIAN]

My BMR is 2850. I guess that means if I'm working out and jogging (2850*1.3 = 3750) and I don't want to slow my metabolism, I should be consuming 3250, right? It sounds like a good starting point. You may find that it is a little high but since you are interested in building muscle at the same time small adjustments are prudent.


Again, are the carbs to ensure I get aminos to my muscles?Yes

What do you think would be happening biologically if I didn't have carbs? PWO is the most important meal imo. It is when your muscles are most insulin sensitive. Insulin is the most anabolic compound. You risk inhibiting your growth.

Also, as far switching to 65% protein and 30% fat (and not the other way like I'm at now), that would put me at around 500g of protein (if I go to 3250 calories). That isn't too much? I estimate that you will have about 100 carbs from breakfast and PWO. You may end up with some more depending on your shakes, condiments, PB, etc that have "hidden" carbs. This will put you at least 12% perhaps more. Knowing your actual calories (I estimated lower) I would drop to about 50-55% which would put you in the 400g range for protein. That will leave about 33-38% for good fats.

^^^^

 

[silverskyline]

energy levels are good, surprisingly
But why man, why?! Is it purely to get aminos into my muscles?
I'm not drinking shakes. Should I be? I get all my protein from fish, chicken, pastrami, pork, cheese, peanut butter, and eggs.
definitely.

Good deal well it makes since considering there are 4kcals in a g of protein and 4 in a g of carbs so it's the same energy level just the process at which it is utalized.

 

[silverskyline]

YES you need shakes, you only really need them POST WORKOUT. At least 60g protein from WHEY ISOLATE, right after taking in some WAZY MAIZE. This is SUPER FAST ABSORBING into the muscles so they get the protein they need to grow RIGHT after your workout.

8 always has the answers quicker than I do....DAMN IT!

-Legacy

Quicker? hahaha it took like 6 hours for this guy to get a response.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Well the search button would have gotten even quicker results...lol

Everytime I sign on and get to a post, 8's there before me :-D

-Legacy

 

[silverskyline]

Well the search button would have gotten even quicker results...lol

Everytime I sign on and get to a post, 8's there before me :-D

-Legacy

HAHAH yeah he's quick, def deserves the mentor status he got last month!

 

[ddawg0169]

good stuff guys. and thanks a bunch 8.