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Creatine - loading, fast results, preventing bloat - also, important medical info

blood_drinker

blood_drinker

New member
I want to load, because I understand the results come quicker, even though the results will be the same after 8 weeks - and it is simply a matter of efficiency. Well, I want efficiency NOW, so Im loading.

How fast can I expect results. Tonight, I drank 5g with grape juice. Tomorrow Ill start the real loading phase and Ill drink throughout the day a total of 20g, 5 of those g will be included in my post workout meal with maltodextrin. I know it depends on the person, but give me either a aball park figure or your own experience. The rest of the 15g will be throughout the day with grape juice.

I am still bulking, and I want the creatines effects, and I understand bloat can be minimized by keeping the K in check. I dont have the cash for this, so how much K is good to prevent excess bloat. Is there a problem if I overload on the K? (i like bananas) . COnsidering im bulking, i doubt there will be a sodium potassium inbalance, correct?

*********
I am also in therapy because my phsychologist is analysing my life situation which at the moment is rather fucked up. I have taken drugs in the past (DNP, Speed, Weed [good n dirty]) and he is giving me "natural" pills to clean out my liver and kidneys. Translated into english, i think he is an oftomologist. I understand the creatine is stored in one of these (liver or kidneys), and he says the toxins will be cleared out. Do you think ill be wasting my time with the creatine, as that too might be excreted? I think not, but this is a useful piece of info id really appreciate having.
************
Id appreciate a full answer.
Peace
 
Blood-

Now you know Creatine is illegal in France?!

Anyways, I just started a creatine cycle last week and I front load 5 gs 3 times per day. I took these a half hour before a meal with carbs as that is how it is best absorbed.
 
blood: you know that taking creatine at the exact time as the dextrose (grape juice) is crotte de chein?

Creatine peaks in yo blood about 20 mins after you ingest it, so, this is what you do to get the magnifique physique:

1. slurp down yo crea with lots of water on an empty stomach.
2. wait 20 mins.
3. slurp down 30-50 grams of dextrose (or some cups of grape juice)
4. watch those muscles gro!

good luck metric bro
 
Hey, I never knew that one no fatt ass ho. Do you have any evidence of that? Have you taken creatine yourself? What were your results (and how fast were they):?
 
I guess this post is unclear.
My main points are

1) How can I not improve, but ACCELERATE results to the max while still preventing excess bloat (the latter is rather secondary, but still include it in your answer if you can)? Like no fat ass ho's info, if you give me something rather unheard of to the general creatine public, could you provide evidence?

2) How can i best manipulate my potassium intake to prevent bloat. how does this work

3) The medical part.
 
My suggestion personally would be YES to load with creatine. I would suggest loading with maybe 20g either a) ONE day a week, or b) ONE week per month. I have tried both and like both equally. Either way you still should take a maintenance dose of 3-5g a day, even on days that you dont train, to maintain the creatine in your system.

I would suggest dropping the grape juice completely. Try this.. like WantNoFatAssHo! Said your creatine is not absorbed best with the carbs. I would suggest either before your LAST exercise of your workout, or immediately after your workout, take your creatine (and glutamine, in my opinion), and then wait around 20-30 minutes. Sometimes just drive home from the gym, or if your cutting maybe do around 20-30 minutes of postworkout cardio. Then take in around 30-40g of whey protein, along with glucose polymers... such as dextrose or maltodextrin or something along those lines.

I personally like the recommendation of taking in around 1/2g carbs for every pound of bodyweight postworkout, and around .2g protein per pound of bodyweight postworkout. Defintiely stick to fast-acting whey protein isolate and dextrose/maltodextrin. I also really believe in taking 2-3g of the amino acid l-arginine postworkout also. It really helps my muscles stay full and packed with glycogen.

Good luck!

:D:D
 
So basically I have my post workout 30 mins after my last exercise, and creatine immediately after?

Dude, this goes against the whole muscle recuperation IMMEDIATELY after working out theories. Is it really that important? If it is , and improves muscle recuperation, im up for that, but what do you think.
 
Hey there big guy, I read your comment on the diet board...i'll be able to help or at least give some pointers that I have learned in the past from reading, but not til I get home later from school...have a pretty big test. I drive 1.5 hours each way, so i'll be home sometime between 6-8pm, depending on this damn holiday traffic, especially since i'll be driving in Los Angeles...YUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKK!

BMJ
 
blood_drinker-
I think my results came pretty quick. Yeah there a bunch of studies showing when creatine peaked in the blood.. it wasnt until 20-30 minutes after creatine was ingested that it peaked in the blood and that was the optimal time to ingest protein and carbs.

Yeah foreal bro!! This theory is going against what all other theories I have ever read on postworkout nutrition say. Also there have been studies stating that alpha-lipoic acid postworkout is a WASTE of your $$.

:D:D
 
so MonStar I gotta question ... instead of taking with grape juice or powerade your saying that just take it with water??? and after 20 30 minutes just drink a protein shake with glucose polymers...

where can i get glucose polymers such as dextrose and maltodextrin ... are these something like sugar ? and how much of it should i put in?
 
Gixxer-
Whatsup brother? Yeah exactly IMMEDIATELY after your workout you should pop around 5g of creatine along with 5g of glutamine peptides in my opinion...

And then 20-30 minutes later, take in around .2g of protein per pound of bodyweight and around .5g of carbs per pound of bodyweight. I would suggest taking in something like fast-acting whey protein isolate... to ensure the amino acids get to your bloodstream quickly.

Believe it or not, Sweettarts (yes the candy), two primary ingredients are dextrose and maltodextrin. Buy a roll and check it out bro youll be VERY surprised. A normal 50-60 cent roll delivers around 48g of simple carbs that are idea to be taken in postworkout with your whey protein. I have been doing it for a year or two now and its ALWAYS worked great.

:D:D
 
You can get "glucose polymers" such as dextrose and maltodextrin at places like proteinfactory.com and some sweets carry it (sweet tarts). But sweet tarts have a bunch of shit in them besides dextrose, not good for you in excess. Also, pixie sticks are suposedly pure dextrose (and all the other junk).

I still wait on BMJs answer..
 
blood drinker..what is K??


how bout creatine and gflutamine with juice..then 2- mins later..

protein and carbs with dextrose??
 
I personally dont think that the added ingredients in Sweettarts will have that much of an effect........... theyre mostly just added colors.. dextrose, maltodextrin...

Then a few added colors, flavorings.

:D:D
 
Well, since you have decided to do a loading phase for the "quick" saturation, then lets see...Definately drink a lot of water with each dose of creatine, somewhere around 2 cups. The added water will help with solubility and will also decrease the amount of creatine that is converted into creatinine. Plus, for each gram of glycogen that is stored, it will take around 3-4 grams of water. Since you are bulking, you will have to expect a certain amount of bloat, which will just naturally occur due to the added calories, especially if it is high in carbs (high carb ratios tend to create more bloat/extracellular water weight for people. Hmmm...you may want to try an isocaloric/zone/40-40-20 type diet. Some research shows that creatine may not have to be used with a high GI carb, but I have always gotten better results with the high GI route. Ideally, the only real time I like to ingest high GI carbs is after I train with weights. Morning time is debatable, but this is more of an issue of insulin sensitivity, which will vary person to person. Therefore, I always take in most of my creatine with my postworkout dextrose/maltodextrin, and also with my breakfast. I usually take in 15 grams with my postworkout drink, and 10 with my breakfast. If i take more than this, I usually will just have it with a regular meal, and not worry about the GI spike. I always get better results with higher than normal creatine dosages, but this too will vary person to person. I usually go around 35-40 grams for my loading phases, and don't go much below 15-20 grams on maintenance. Our crazy MOD E2 actually has done up to 100 grams if I remember right, but don't know/remember the details.

Duchaine mentioned that you can take some Alka seltzer and other alkaline substances to help "lower the stomach acid (raise ph)", which will help speed up gastric absorption of the creatine. This may be worth a try.

I don't know what kind of "natural" liver cleansers your doc has you on, but i really do not think they will interfere. Do you remember the names of the ingredient(s). I am not an expert on this though so maybe someone else will be able to give you a better answer. One thing you may want to look into for liver protection and regeneration is ALA (alpha lipoic acid). The added bonus of it shuttling more glucose into the cells by increasing transporters on the cell surface, will help things out even more. If i remember right, you do not live in the U.S.A. so I don't know if cost will be a factor. There is a nice thread on ALA by Huck on the Anabolic board if you want to learn more about it, also FONZ has written some good threads on it in the past so you may want to do a search using his name.

Now the potassium question is a little harder considering the fact that it will also depend on the amount of sodium and chloride ratios that are present. This is kind of hard for me to give an accurate answer on. You may want to just add a couple extra hundred mg.'s a day and see if this help keep the creatin bloat down. You may need to do some experimenting with this. If anyone else can give better advice on this area, please feel free to elaborate because I am no expert in this area, and I don't know if I am helping much. The potassium may not help much though on a "bulking" regimine since fat and water gain are almost impossible to eliminate even without the creatine. I speculate that you would probably see more effects from the potassium supplementation on a HYPOcaloric diet. Sorry man, that's about all i can add on this...i'll do some reading and see if I can find anything else, but I don't know. Par Deus????

About taking the creatine before the sugar thingy...I can see how this would be a better solution, but I think the difference in positive effects will basically be too small to worry about. Eventually it will get absorbed anyway. As long as you drink it with a lot of water, and after a workout (which also effects the absorption rates of substances), then I would not worry much about it. Plus, with the addition of sodium bicarbonate/alka seltzer, it might make this argument moot since its absorption will increase. Let me know how it works out if you do this though.

Oh yeah, on non-workout days, just have the bulk of the creatine with your breakfast, then spread the rest throughout the day with other meals with LOTS of WATER.

Well man, I don't know if I helped at all, let me know though. Maybe Par Deus or MS or someone can add something to the mix. Oh yeah, if I know Pat Arnold reads threads on this Supplement Board lately as well, he should be able to give some advice if his weeny ass has time LOL...just kidding Pat, you tha man!:D

LATER,
MR. BMJ
 
As a whole you seem to recommend to triple the creatine maintenance recommended dosages. This is my third day of loading with 20g. Up to 40g?

Why should maintenance be any higher than 5g?

Would creatine be wasted (to a higher extent) if taken with a large meal as opposed to lots of water, and then after 30 mins a simple high GI carb?
 
Also, considering my phase (300g container):

Week 1: 20g per day. Total = 140g.
Week 2 onwards (32 days): 5g per day. = 160g

How fast can I expect results from this one?
I can always buy more, but will good results come from this small container, or should I expect to buy many more?
 
I'm on creatine 7/365, and have been working out with my training partner for about a year. I would say that I am more pleaed with my gains than he are with his.

And for the bloat, what the fuck, i've never seen any bloat, its not like you gonna look like the elephant man or some shit. i've never noticed anything of this.

demn, its started to snow now, thats scandalnavia...

anyway, buy a full kilo of creatine and take ten grams everyday mr. blood, it cant kill and i'm pretty sure it will make you stronger.

good luck!
 
blood_drinker said:
As a whole you seem to recommend to triple the creatine maintenance recommended dosages. This is my third day of loading with 20g. Up to 40g?

Why should maintenance be any higher than 5g?

Would creatine be wasted (to a higher extent) if taken with a large meal as opposed to lots of water, and then after 30 mins a simple high GI carb?
Click to expand...

Once the muscles have been saturated, there really will be no "HUGE" benefit after this point. Yes, your 20gm's and 5 gram regimine should be fine. It is rather more of an individual thing. However, I do find slightly better results with higher doses...they may not be by very much, but it is definately noticeable to a degree. Some people don't think the same, which might be something you have to experiment with yourself. Also, the guy that mentioned only loading/taking creatine on the days you workout may have something as well...When bulking, I sometimes only consume around 15grams after my workout with my dextrose since on days off your are not depleting your muscles, and I seem to stay pumped. This might be something to think about as well after your loading phase. The only thing I might change is to use 10 grams after your workouts instead of 5 grams, but I don't know if cost is a factor.

I'm sure there is some other physiological/biochemical pathways that are being benefited and effected that no one knows of yet, especially when hearing from guys that take abnormal amounts and getting better results AFTER the muscles have been saturated. Who knows...I sure dont.

MR. BMJ
 
fat ass hoe,

r u saying immediatly after ur workout to take creatine and glutamine in water...can u have it in gatorade,

then 20 mins later.. would mixing ur protein with gatorade b enough??

or should i use gatorade and dextrose???

or just 1 or the other... and if so how much gatorade, or dextrose??

what else should i use to get my carb level up post workout????


i weigh about 185 and this book "power eating"
says for me to have 70 grams or protien, and 129 gram of carbs. post workout.

this book also suggest for me 151 grams of protein
and 672 grams of carbs per day
 
So BMJ, how fast do YOUR results come in? What type of regimen did you follow?

Im gonna go for 10g maintenance post workout with maltodextrin and a bucketload of water. I hope this will work, I really dont have the patience to drink 1 L water with creatine, then time 20 mins on a stopwatch and go chug 500ml of grape juice for 70g carbs or my maltodextrin. Im going to do it all at once. Unless the difference is noticeable, I wont do it. But considering this regimen (if you've done something similar to this, with 20g loading for 7 days) how fast do results come in? Ive already noticed strength gains , but I dont know if its placebo or just a result of my bulking diet- perhaps a combination of the three, I hope.

Id appreciate your input
 
Also, you say that once the muscles have been saturated, there will be no benefit. Now, common sense tells me that once the loading phase is over, the muscles are saturated, which is why the maintenance phase exists - to keep this saturation going. So by this is it safe to deduct that creatine effects should come (or at least start) after the first week? (food for thought?)
 
another thing...

my creatine.Prolab creapure...says to cycle it..8 weeks on 4 weeks off.

everything i have read says there is no need to cycle it.

ive been on solidly since.. hmm..almost a year..with little time off..

should i stop for ne amount of time??

also..is it neccesary to take creatine on non-lifting days??
 
Blood,

Why dont you pick up some K? They are only $4 for 100 tabs.

This only seems to minimize the bloat, however, it is not all gone.
 
Think of your muscle like a balloon...If you put it up to the water tap and fill it up, it will get bigger. Now, depending on how much you turn the water faucet knob, it will either put more water out or less water out. In other words, if you barely turn the faucet knob, then the water will come out slowly. If you turn the knob an additional twist, then it will put out more water. Now, if you want to get the balloon filled-up fast, then you just turn the knob to where more water will come out into the balloon. The slow water release will still fill-up the ballon, but it will take longer. This is the same with how creatine will work. At first, if following the loading phase, you will see a fast swelling of the muscles as compared to the suttle swelling of the maintenance dose (with no loading phase). Now, you will notice the gains you get from the time the muscle is empty to the time it gets full. Once the muscle is full, the gains in muscle swelling will not be as dramatic as they were when you started. I am not exactly sure to the exact size a muscle cell can get at it fullest point, but once it is full, then there is probably not much more you put in it.

I have seen creatines effects in a matter of a few days each time I have used it...your muscles will be more "swollen" and pumped-up. How much of an effect you encounter will also depend on how much intracellular "stuff" is already in the muscle cells. For example, if you add water to a balloon that is already half full before you get it and start adding more water, then obviously you are not gonna see as a dramatic effect as you would if it were completely empty. When I say stuff, I mean "stuff" like water, glycogen, etc....

I have used this with all kind of diets, and it seems to be pretty useful in all of them. Obviously more in a carb contained diet, but I have seen effects (slightly) in even a ketonic state.

Your regimine looks fine to me...the effects you are getting are more than likely from the increased cell volumization of the creatine and not a placebo effect. You should feel more "pumped".

Let me know if i missed anything Blood...i'm not sure if i got everything. I'm pretty tired, so I might have. Good luck bro, and i'll try and check back tomorrow if I can...FINALS are next week. AAArrrggghhhhh.

BMJ
 
I'll add some science to this thread, and maybe it will help some. Here is an abstract using almost the same exact regimine you have, so maybe it might be of interest to you. If you notice, at the bottom, it states that funds were granted to this University by EAS, but I really don't think this will matter much. Enjoy

http://www.harcourthealth.com/scrip...hDBfor=art&artTypeabs&id=ameta0501429&nav=abs

aaargghhh........hopefully this works.......

BMJ
 
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